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Bargnani is a post player
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CrushAlot
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7/13/2013  12:30 PM
dk7th wrote:
playa2 wrote:Playing for the Raptors will cause you to dog it a little and not play as hard when you realize the franchise isn't trying to compete.
As much fire Vince Carter had in Toronto he eventually gave up on them too. As soon as he left he regained what he showed in the beginning, even in Dallas at the end of his career he's playing with fire.
Barganni will have our announcer pronouncing his name like he use to do Gallup....GALLLL A NARIIIIII

bargnani is basically the anti-gallinari. there is zero overlap in their games. once the garden booing starts this soft, inefficient, non-defending, selfish, overpaid, underachieving thief he will fold like a beach chair. you do realize he has absolutely no playoff mojo, right? strictly a regular-season phony just like jr.

the only thing good about this acquisition is that he will serve as the perfect scapegoat for people to turn their scorn towards, and in so doing it will cushion carmelo anthony from well-earned criticism for being basically the same type of player.

Its funny because during the sl broadcast Clyde chose Gallo as the player he thought had a similar game to Bargs but said Gallo was a better ball handler.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
AUTOADVERT
loweyecue
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7/13/2013  12:42 PM
dk7th wrote:
playa2 wrote:Playing for the Raptors will cause you to dog it a little and not play as hard when you realize the franchise isn't trying to compete.
As much fire Vince Carter had in Toronto he eventually gave up on them too. As soon as he left he regained what he showed in the beginning, even in Dallas at the end of his career he's playing with fire.
Barganni will have our announcer pronouncing his name like he use to do Gallup....GALLLL A NARIIIIII

bargnani is basically the anti-gallinari. there is zero overlap in their games. once the garden booing starts this soft, inefficient, non-defending, selfish, overpaid, underachieving thief he will fold like a beach chair. you do realize he has absolutely no playoff mojo, right? strictly a regular-season phony just like jr.

the only thing good about this acquisition is that he will serve as the perfect scapegoat for people to turn their scorn towards, and in so doing it will cushion carmelo anthony from well-earned criticism for being basically the same type of player.

I thought they were somewhat similar in offense. Both can hit from long range and both can put it on the floor and drive to the hoop with variable success. Bargs has the edge on low post scoring because of size. In defense they are miles apart. Gallo was committed and scruffy - he wanted to go up against the other teams bets player irrespective of position. The kid had heart. Bargnani - will keep the zebras out of the paint but that's about it.

Totally agree that this now gives the MElo crowd someone new to blame and point fingers at becuase MElo of course is way above such thingsas accountability and responsibility.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Bonn1997
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7/13/2013  1:28 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
playa2 wrote:Playing for the Raptors will cause you to dog it a little and not play as hard when you realize the franchise isn't trying to compete.
As much fire Vince Carter had in Toronto he eventually gave up on them too. As soon as he left he regained what he showed in the beginning, even in Dallas at the end of his career he's playing with fire.
Barganni will have our announcer pronouncing his name like he use to do Gallup....GALLLL A NARIIIIII

bargnani is basically the anti-gallinari. there is zero overlap in their games. once the garden booing starts this soft, inefficient, non-defending, selfish, overpaid, underachieving thief he will fold like a beach chair. you do realize he has absolutely no playoff mojo, right? strictly a regular-season phony just like jr.

the only thing good about this acquisition is that he will serve as the perfect scapegoat for people to turn their scorn towards, and in so doing it will cushion carmelo anthony from well-earned criticism for being basically the same type of player.

Its funny because during the sl broadcast Clyde chose Gallo as the player he thought had a similar game to Bargs but said Gallo was a better ball handler.

People who ignore efficiency and just use the eyeball test make those kinds of comments.

GustavBahler
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7/13/2013  4:05 PM
There is a flavor of the month aspect to Bargs coming here, no doubt, it's normal for a new player to raise hopes to some degree. Posters are broken up about the draft picks, I'm at a point where it doesn't really phase me because that's the M.O of this franchise, and it will be for the foreseeable future, have to get used to it. Unless its a high pick I'm not going to get all worked up about it.

The fact that we gave up Camby who gave us nothing and Novak, who gave us nothing when it mattered last season, makes me like this trade purely on Barg's potential. He was a prolific scorer and he might be again now that he is supposed to be healthy. We will get a preview when he plays for Italy in the Worlds, good way to find out how healthy he is and whether or not he has his mojo back.

I am concerned about Barg's lack of rebounding and D but I'm more concerned about our lack of weapons on offense and relying to much on Felton and JR, not to mention Melo who draws a lot of attention from the D. We can't count on him to carry the scoring load next season like the last one. It was a necessity with all the injuries, Sheed/Kmart/Camby/Stat and Kidd breaking down from overuse. Felton was out for a stretch as well. Novak was on a milk carton.

foosballnick
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7/13/2013  4:45 PM
loweyecue wrote:
dk7th wrote:
playa2 wrote:Playing for the Raptors will cause you to dog it a little and not play as hard when you realize the franchise isn't trying to compete.
As much fire Vince Carter had in Toronto he eventually gave up on them too. As soon as he left he regained what he showed in the beginning, even in Dallas at the end of his career he's playing with fire.
Barganni will have our announcer pronouncing his name like he use to do Gallup....GALLLL A NARIIIIII

bargnani is basically the anti-gallinari. there is zero overlap in their games. once the garden booing starts this soft, inefficient, non-defending, selfish, overpaid, underachieving thief he will fold like a beach chair. you do realize he has absolutely no playoff mojo, right? strictly a regular-season phony just like jr.

the only thing good about this acquisition is that he will serve as the perfect scapegoat for people to turn their scorn towards, and in so doing it will cushion carmelo anthony from well-earned criticism for being basically the same type of player.

I thought they were somewhat similar in offense. Both can hit from long range and both can put it on the floor and drive to the hoop with variable success. Bargs has the edge on low post scoring because of size. In defense they are miles apart. Gallo was committed and scruffy - he wanted to go up against the other teams bets player irrespective of position. The kid had heart. Bargnani - will keep the zebras out of the paint but that's about it.

Totally agree that this now gives the MElo crowd someone new to blame and point fingers at becuase MElo of course is way above such thingsas accountability and responsibility.

And there you have it!!!!!

The obligatory Melo and Melo Crowd ( whoever they are) bashing - because there is likely little else to say in this thread. Good work!!

tkf
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7/13/2013  7:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2013  8:00 PM
dk7th wrote:
nixluva wrote:A GM has to continue to improve his team regardless of whether that ends up guaranteeing a title team. From year to year you don't know what is going to happen with the other teams in the league. Injury or just plain failure is always a possibility. Injury surely has had an impact on the Bulls for 2 years of playoff runs now. So you just have to keep building your team regardless of what anyone might think about the teams potential.

There was a LARGE contingent of media and fans that were sure that the Nets were better than the Knicks. So you have to play it out to the end to really know. AB is not Lebron so no he can't be a lock to push the Knicks over the top. But you still have to keep making the team better and IMO AB makes the team better in addition to other things. This team still isn't complete yet so there's still room for improvement around the edges.

you're dreaming. beck wrote an eye-opening article you should read:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/11/sports/basketball/twisting-path-put-rockets-in-position-to-sign-howard.html?ref=basketball

great article..it goes to show that the rockets are where they are due to great planning and some good fortune, but without the planning, you don't have a chance at good fortune..

Here is a link and a post from an old realgm thread on morey... a lot of knick fans hated that I was defending morey, but I saw what he was doing years ago and I liked it.. here i am responding to a rockets fan on realgm..



nice analogy, and I think morey did swing for the fences somewhat with gasol, but you can't fault him for stern killing the deal..

I think what some people fail to realize is that a bad deal where you empty out your assets can kill your team for years, I know as a knick fan, we have been through it... the offseason is early, I think morey will take his time and make some more deals, bigger splashes, but still well calculated.

your team still can easily win 40-45 games... and having a winning culture is very, very important... As a fan, a rocket fan, there is no reason to be down on your team at this point.... building a contender is a process, and morey seems to have a handle on what he wants to do..

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1190187&start=345

And to continue in typical fashion of some knick fans, they go on to knock and mock morey's moves.. for instance look in that thread,page 25 and 26, they are laughing at the rockets signing asik for 8 mil per.. LOL not such a bad move huH.. here was my response..

yea, the bulls are going to miss him.. the guy has some offensive potential, but defensively and on the boards is where I think he really can be a very, good player... not bad for the rockets... big men tend to get paid..


again, I am not doing this to try to pat myself on the back, heck i have been wrong before.. I liked that amare signing at first.. but it goes to show when you can step back and look at the knicks situation and other teams situation fairly, it not only makes for better analysis but better dialogue on the boards..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
nixluva
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7/13/2013  8:53 PM
The Knicks planning is shaping up pretty good despite all the moving of picks. Two years from now the Knicks will have a chance to reset and also the ability to re-sign any of the key players they want to keep. Of course they can also go after any FA they want. I fail to see how this team isn't set up for success now and in the future.

For now we added a talented 7'er who still has upside and isn't over the hill. I think that was a good move. We've got a pretty good start to the roster so far with the 10 players we have. Looks like there are some good young talents on our SL team and we still have a chance at a FA or 2. Can't really make a final judgment until we see who they bring to camp. So far tho I like what they've done.

Bonn1997
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7/13/2013  8:55 PM
nixluva wrote:The Knicks planning is shaping up pretty good despite all the moving of picks. Two years from now the Knicks will have a chance to reset and also the ability to re-sign any of the key players they want to keep. Of course they can also go after any FA they want. I fail to see how this team isn't set up for success now and in the future.

Haven't you been saying that since October 5th, 2004?
nixluva
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7/13/2013  9:36 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The Knicks planning is shaping up pretty good despite all the moving of picks. Two years from now the Knicks will have a chance to reset and also the ability to re-sign any of the key players they want to keep. Of course they can also go after any FA they want. I fail to see how this team isn't set up for success now and in the future.

Haven't you been saying that since October 5th, 2004?

How about some perspective. It's funny how some of the people who make mention of my comments over the years fail to acknowledge the changing expectations of each team we've had over the years. Not every team has the same level of expectation placed on it. The circumstances change when you have a young team that is full of developing players or a vet team that has proven to win at a certain rate and thus the expectations are different. Therefor NONE of my comments about the team over the years has anything to do with the current situation.

Right now the team is no worse than top 5 in the East. The team has some good talent, continuity with the core of the roster and some youth added in. This team also has a good cap situation coming in 2 years when most of the contracts will end and they can reset. How can you flip this into a bad situation reminiscent of poorly managed teams of the past? You've got a competitive team for the next 2 yrs and then the ability to reset in 2 yrs if you want to go in a different direction. That's bad HOW?

StarksEwing1
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7/13/2013  9:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2013  9:45 PM
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The Knicks planning is shaping up pretty good despite all the moving of picks. Two years from now the Knicks will have a chance to reset and also the ability to re-sign any of the key players they want to keep. Of course they can also go after any FA they want. I fail to see how this team isn't set up for success now and in the future.

Haven't you been saying that since October 5th, 2004?

How about some perspective. It's funny how some of the people who make mention of my comments over the years fail to acknowledge the changing expectations of each team we've had over the years. Not every team has the same level of expectation placed on it. The circumstances change when you have a young team that is full of developing players or a vet team that has proven to win at a certain rate and thus the expectations are different. Therefor NONE of my comments about the team over the years has anything to do with the current situation.

Right now the team is no worse than top 5 in the East. The team has some good talent, continuity with the core of the roster and some youth added in. This team also has a good cap situation coming in 2 years when most of the contracts will end and they can reset. How can you flip this into a bad situation reminiscent of poorly managed teams of the past? You've got a competitive team for the next 2 yrs and then the ability to reset in 2 yrs if you want to go in a different direction. That's bad HOW?

To be fair we all love the Knicks and want them to win so badly but one playoff series win in 13 years in a big market like new york isnt too good. yes we are a playoff team but fans arent content with just making the playoffs anymore, we want the knicks to get to the ECF or even the finals. Lets afce it the knicks arent good enough to go far in the playoffs. we might win 50 games but we dont have good playoff players. we have a lot of one dimensional players and streaky players.
nixluva
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7/14/2013  4:52 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The Knicks planning is shaping up pretty good despite all the moving of picks. Two years from now the Knicks will have a chance to reset and also the ability to re-sign any of the key players they want to keep. Of course they can also go after any FA they want. I fail to see how this team isn't set up for success now and in the future.

Haven't you been saying that since October 5th, 2004?

How about some perspective. It's funny how some of the people who make mention of my comments over the years fail to acknowledge the changing expectations of each team we've had over the years. Not every team has the same level of expectation placed on it. The circumstances change when you have a young team that is full of developing players or a vet team that has proven to win at a certain rate and thus the expectations are different. Therefor NONE of my comments about the team over the years has anything to do with the current situation.

Right now the team is no worse than top 5 in the East. The team has some good talent, continuity with the core of the roster and some youth added in. This team also has a good cap situation coming in 2 years when most of the contracts will end and they can reset. How can you flip this into a bad situation reminiscent of poorly managed teams of the past? You've got a competitive team for the next 2 yrs and then the ability to reset in 2 yrs if you want to go in a different direction. That's bad HOW?

To be fair we all love the Knicks and want them to win so badly but one playoff series win in 13 years in a big market like new york isnt too good. yes we are a playoff team but fans arent content with just making the playoffs anymore, we want the knicks to get to the ECF or even the finals. Lets afce it the knicks arent good enough to go far in the playoffs. we might win 50 games but we dont have good playoff players. we have a lot of one dimensional players and streaky players.

You don't have to tell me about the Playoffs not being enough. I'm not saying that this is a playoff team just to say we've arrived or something. I've been a Knick fan for the whole ride since the last title and it's KILLED me that we haven't won another one. Still this team is in the mix at the moment no matter what some people think about their chances. The idea is the put in the work and keep building up your team. Once you're in the top 5 you've got a chance. No one can guarantee that the Knicks can't get the ECF's and win. That's why they play the games.

Look right now our roster has 10 signed players and I like all of them. I actually think we're off to a better start roster wise than last year. We have 5 more spots to fill and try to improve this team. I can foresee a lot of players who can help t fill out this roster and give meaningful minutes. More meaningful than White, Novak or Camby and likely for longer than Sheed or KT were able to help this team. Those 5 players couldn't help us when we needed them most. I don't foresee that happening again. That's already a victory for this roster.

I'm liking the kids i'm seeing in SL. i think we can add a couple of vets and few of these kids like Tyler and Murry to help this year and beyond. If we came out of this off season with THJ, CJ, Tyler and Murry i'd be ECSTATIC!!!

RonRon
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7/14/2013  8:14 AM
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The Knicks planning is shaping up pretty good despite all the moving of picks. Two years from now the Knicks will have a chance to reset and also the ability to re-sign any of the key players they want to keep. Of course they can also go after any FA they want. I fail to see how this team isn't set up for success now and in the future.

Haven't you been saying that since October 5th, 2004?

How about some perspective. It's funny how some of the people who make mention of my comments over the years fail to acknowledge the changing expectations of each team we've had over the years. Not every team has the same level of expectation placed on it. The circumstances change when you have a young team that is full of developing players or a vet team that has proven to win at a certain rate and thus the expectations are different. Therefor NONE of my comments about the team over the years has anything to do with the current situation.

Right now the team is no worse than top 5 in the East. The team has some good talent, continuity with the core of the roster and some youth added in. This team also has a good cap situation coming in 2 years when most of the contracts will end and they can reset. How can you flip this into a bad situation reminiscent of poorly managed teams of the past? You've got a competitive team for the next 2 yrs and then the ability to reset in 2 yrs if you want to go in a different direction. That's bad HOW?


I DON'T THINK ANYTHING IS GIVEN TO US, I would not say we are top 5 at all...
If Woodson does not change his coaching identity, build a philosophy that actually works, improve his adjustments/rotations
I just don't trust his coaching and he seems to build on the same philosophy that won in Detroit but he does not realize the difference in skills/bb IQ/talent/non ego issues/player personal in factor

The East has improved a lot and who is not to say that we could be a 1year wonder *meaning we overachieved last season in addition to the water downed conference with injuries*
Nixluva, you are extremely optimistic but you go from *Possibly to Likely*, basically saying you would compare the Knick's playing at their best scenario with other teams playing at their worse with injuries, a

Last season, we greatly benefitted from some of the injuries to many players
These are the #1 or at least #2 of their teams


Derrick Rose and Noah playing hurt and a good amount of DNP's *for Noah, if you actually watched him play you could tell he was not the same, he went from being a top 5 center in the league ,down to at least 10-15, and it took him much time to get back in NBA shape*

Bynum
Rhondo
Granger
Varejo and Irving *don't know if he ever will be healthy either*

Wall *took him a couple of months to play then get it game shape*, Nene *probably never will be healhty*
Deron WIlliams *coming in out of shape which took 3 months for him to get back in game shape*
Wade *recovering from surgery all summer/ 1st time he never trained in summer*


This year, The East looks like they got a lot stronger with some acquisitions form the Western Conference with the players below
The East has generally been the worse teams in general the past decade, meaning a lot of their picks were development players that likely will improve DRASTICALLY
Many teams improved this off season with trades, acquisitions, and pairings like Nets/Detroit's bigs/Cleveland
There are individual improvements/developments and TEAM/CHEMISTRY developments,


Al Jefferson
Millsap
Bynum *if healthy which he is suppose to be*
Jarret Jack

Mayo/Ridnour


Rudy Gay *he was acquired in the middle of the season and I think he will be right next to Paul George this year, unlocking the potential in him as the team's #1 option*
There are not many SF's that have the ability to play PF, and have G skills, on top of that he has great athleticism/length/strength *although skinny, but he gained weight this summer*, meaning he has the ability to also be a more complete player by at least being a GOOD DEFENDER

Playing alongside Marc Gasol and ZBO, simply did not compliment Gay because they take away the paint forcing Gay to play outside more
I agree that his STATs have been HORRIBLE in terms of efficiency but I believe he has the talent and ability to turn in around

RonRon
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7/14/2013  8:18 AM
So top 4, in no order
===========================

Miami
Pacers
Bulls
Nets

5th/6th/7th, in no order, these teams have the ability to climb up to top 4, I think Cleveland has the highest % to do so
===================================================================================================================================
I think Cleveland and Washington depends on the health of their roster and building that chemistry, I would not be surprised if they went higher especially with Cleveland


Cleveland - *potentially could become the deepest/youngest/most talented team*

*adding Bynum alone is huge*
then Varejo is a VERY GOOD PF/C himself if healthy
additions of Jarret Jack/ Earl Clark
development in Irving, Tristan Thompson/Waiters/Zeller/Gee/CJ Miles
rookies in #1 pick, Anthony Bennett, Sergey Karasev, Carrick Felix


Washington - we saw flashes of what former #1 pick John Wall could do with his penetration and they beat MANY CONTENDING TEAMS last year especially at home, add the development of Beal/Otto Porter/Glen Rice JR in addition to the veterans of Nene/Ok4/Webster/Ariza/Trevor Booker/Eric Maynor

Kevin Seraphin, Jan Vesely, Chris Singleton, have yet unlocked their potential and if they don't do well this year they will likely be traded or let go


Knicks - many teams have 3 PG's that are better than our best, almost all have at least 2, some even 4, and we are missing 2PG's *1combo guard*, a LEGIT SF, SF/PP, and 1 C and 1 PF/C

7th/8th/9th/10th ,in no order, and could both move higher with the talent they have added/developed/drafted
=============================================================================================================

Orlando *Vucevic, Tobias Harris, Harkless, Andrew Nicholson, Victor Oladipo, in addition to veterans of Affalo, BIG BABY/Glen Davis, and Nelson

Detroit *the development of Drummond and addition of Josh Smith*

Toronto *Rudy Gay is one of the top SF/PF's after Lebron/Durant, with the developments/improvements/health of Lowry/DeMar DeRozan, Amir Johnson Jonas Valanciunas/Terrence Ross


The unknown, with months away from training camp, possible trades, amnesty drops/pickups, and many roster spots and players still in FA
============================================================================================================================================

Bucks
Bobcats
Atlanta

CrushAlot
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7/14/2013  8:31 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The Knicks planning is shaping up pretty good despite all the moving of picks. Two years from now the Knicks will have a chance to reset and also the ability to re-sign any of the key players they want to keep. Of course they can also go after any FA they want. I fail to see how this team isn't set up for success now and in the future.

Haven't you been saying that since October 5th, 2004?

How about some perspective. It's funny how some of the people who make mention of my comments over the years fail to acknowledge the changing expectations of each team we've had over the years. Not every team has the same level of expectation placed on it. The circumstances change when you have a young team that is full of developing players or a vet team that has proven to win at a certain rate and thus the expectations are different. Therefor NONE of my comments about the team over the years has anything to do with the current situation.

Right now the team is no worse than top 5 in the East. The team has some good talent, continuity with the core of the roster and some youth added in. This team also has a good cap situation coming in 2 years when most of the contracts will end and they can reset. How can you flip this into a bad situation reminiscent of poorly managed teams of the past? You've got a competitive team for the next 2 yrs and then the ability to reset in 2 yrs if you want to go in a different direction. That's bad HOW?

To be fair we all love the Knicks and want them to win so badly but one playoff series win in 13 years in a big market like new york isnt too good. yes we are a playoff team but fans arent content with just making the playoffs anymore, we want the knicks to get to the ECF or even the finals. Lets afce it the knicks arent good enough to go far in the playoffs. we might win 50 games but we dont have good playoff players. we have a lot of one dimensional players and streaky players.
However, prior to last years playoff series win they hadn't had one in 12 years. It had been longer than that since they had won the Atlantic , gotten second seed in the east and won 50+. Hopefully they build on that success. The guys that are supposed to be the core are coming back. Did they lose a lot of vet leadership and moxie? Absolutely. But all of those guys broke down. I think you have to see who the Knicks bring in for their last 5 roster spots. Last year every knick that was on the opening day roster with the exception of Camby and white played in the rotation so those spots are important.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
RonRon
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7/14/2013  8:48 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/14/2013  9:03 AM
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The Knicks planning is shaping up pretty good despite all the moving of picks. Two years from now the Knicks will have a chance to reset and also the ability to re-sign any of the key players they want to keep. Of course they can also go after any FA they want. I fail to see how this team isn't set up for success now and in the future.

Haven't you been saying that since October 5th, 2004?

How about some perspective. It's funny how some of the people who make mention of my comments over the years fail to acknowledge the changing expectations of each team we've had over the years. Not every team has the same level of expectation placed on it. The circumstances change when you have a young team that is full of developing players or a vet team that has proven to win at a certain rate and thus the expectations are different. Therefor NONE of my comments about the team over the years has anything to do with the current situation.

Right now the team is no worse than top 5 in the East. The team has some good talent, continuity with the core of the roster and some youth added in. This team also has a good cap situation coming in 2 years when most of the contracts will end and they can reset. How can you flip this into a bad situation reminiscent of poorly managed teams of the past? You've got a competitive team for the next 2 yrs and then the ability to reset in 2 yrs if you want to go in a different direction. That's bad HOW?

To be fair we all love the Knicks and want them to win so badly but one playoff series win in 13 years in a big market like new york isnt too good. yes we are a playoff team but fans arent content with just making the playoffs anymore, we want the knicks to get to the ECF or even the finals. Lets afce it the knicks arent good enough to go far in the playoffs. we might win 50 games but we dont have good playoff players. we have a lot of one dimensional players and streaky players.

You don't have to tell me about the Playoffs not being enough. I'm not saying that this is a playoff team just to say we've arrived or something. I've been a Knick fan for the whole ride since the last title and it's KILLED me that we haven't won another one. Still this team is in the mix at the moment no matter what some people think about their chances. The idea is the put in the work and keep building up your team. Once you're in the top 5 you've got a chance. No one can guarantee that the Knicks can't get the ECF's and win. That's why they play the games.

Look right now our roster has 10 signed players and I like all of them. I actually think we're off to a better start roster wise than last year. We have 5 more spots to fill and try to improve this team. I can foresee a lot of players who can help t fill out this roster and give meaningful minutes. More meaningful than White, Novak or Camby and likely for longer than Sheed or KT were able to help this team. Those 5 players couldn't help us when we needed them most. I don't foresee that happening again. That's already a victory for this roster.

I'm liking the kids i'm seeing in SL. i think we can add a couple of vets and few of these kids like Tyler and Murry to help this year and beyond. If we came out of this off season with THJ, CJ, Tyler and Murry i'd be ECSTATIC!!!


In all fairness, I know you know that Novak was the utilized correctly
Woodson needs to cut the freedom and take the ball away from low % and low IQ players
By actually RUNNING PLAYS

For JR and Melo, make a move, or pass the ball up, not hold the ball as the rest of the team is unable to anticipate what they are trying to do
Melo constantly uses his energy to trying to get the ball often out to the 3pt line but is unwilling to set picks/move without the ball/fight for REB position, and give the confidence /opportunity/ and space for another player to get their shot off


NO ONE truly know's if Camby was able to contribute and play at a high level or not
But he was still very solid with a few 20+ rebounds nights with under 30mins of playing time, the season right before we traded for him
Camby and Martin were our best shot blockers and Camby was put in the doghouse and NEVER complained, that is why he is upset for being traded again
I am not saying that he could be a top 20 Center at his age but I am saying that he could at least back up Chandler for a good 20+ minutes besides on back to back nights
If given 20-28minutes a game, I think he can easily get 8-12 rebounds, 2-4 blocks, 1-2 steals, 6pts with a couple put backs and dunks
BUT HE NEVER GOT THIS OPPORTUNITY, and that is why he wants to go to a contender in the East to show what he could have still done for us but no AGAINST US

As for White, Sheed, KT, and even Kidd/Pablo

You CONSTANTLY praised what they brought to the team when they were on the team with their veteran experience, leadership, intangibles, DEF, REB, High IQ, etc, etc
Now that they are no longer Knick's, you bash them, point out their flaws, and praise other flawed players like Bargnani that are currently Knicks

This is why some posters constantly attack you, you stick your own foot in your mouth and try to justify/praise players just because they are Knick's and only think about their positives while rejecting their negatives

I personally, agree with a lot of your points in your post's, although it might not seem like it
But you contradict yourself a lot and try to justify yourself and points gets rather annoying
I do read a lot of your post's because you give thought and try to analyze the situation, rather than just PLAIN BASHING which many poster's actually just do here


You fail to see how we are not set up to be a contender?
Have you not watched out we played last season vs the Pacer's
Like DKTH says, it isn't if you lose, it is how we lose, and we NEVER STOOD a chance with the way we played vs the Pacer's or in the future vs any contending team with talent

Iso ball/spread out offense/ Woodson's philosophy on both OFF and DEF is completely flawed with the lineups/rotations he uses
Yet he is stubborn about changing ANY OF IT

On a talent level, you have to see the talent of the teams assembled, LOOK ABOVE on one my posts

You just REJECT the belief because you want to see what you want to see as a Knick fan


NixLuva's loyalty Chart
==============================


1- Dantoni - I agree with most of your posts on defending him but u reject Dantoni's flaws/stubbornness

2- Walsh - He had a gameplan with his patience, unfortunately Lebron did not come, *SIGNING HIM or another FA, while keeping our yoot's as asset's*
He tried his best to change the *OVERPAY for talent* and collect asset's/with cap space just like Houston has done
But Dolan had to interfare and NOT let him finish his job while it would have taken one more season to do since Lebron did not come
Dolan wanted the BIG NAME in STAT to attract other FA's and same for Dantoni to build a attract players to come and Dolan got them both for that purpose

No one wants to play DUMB basketball, play off Melo's inability to create for the team, and stand around and do NOTHING to compliment Melo to becoming a super hero
Woodson might be okay with JR and Melo taking 30 shots each a game but the FA is not willing to come to the team, while unable to get opportunities to shine, and good chance they (if someone takes a paycut to come* would get traded as soon as some future big name goes on the market

Walsh made many mistakes here but he is the only one that actually had a plan to build for the future and be competitive at the same time
Had we still been the GM, we would have saved the amnesty, gotten CP3, utilize all the draft picks we sent *before and after Denver trade* out much better, kept Lin, then amnesty STAT and use contract to build the role players needed, while still having the financial freedom/draft picks/assets to go with the 2015 FA class


3- Knicks, almost any moves they make

1 and 3, is quite annoying to me, the way you praise the positives and reject the negatives

Jmpasq
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7/14/2013  9:00 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
playa2 wrote:Playing for the Raptors will cause you to dog it a little and not play as hard when you realize the franchise isn't trying to compete.
As much fire Vince Carter had in Toronto he eventually gave up on them too. As soon as he left he regained what he showed in the beginning, even in Dallas at the end of his career he's playing with fire.
Barganni will have our announcer pronouncing his name like he use to do Gallup....GALLLL A NARIIIIII

bargnani is basically the anti-gallinari. there is zero overlap in their games. once the garden booing starts this soft, inefficient, non-defending, selfish, overpaid, underachieving thief he will fold like a beach chair. you do realize he has absolutely no playoff mojo, right? strictly a regular-season phony just like jr.

the only thing good about this acquisition is that he will serve as the perfect scapegoat for people to turn their scorn towards, and in so doing it will cushion carmelo anthony from well-earned criticism for being basically the same type of player.

Its funny because during the sl broadcast Clyde chose Gallo as the player he thought had a similar game to Bargs but said Gallo was a better ball handler.

People who ignore efficiency and just use the eyeball test make those kinds of comments.


Physical Skill wise they are similar. I would much rather have Galo though
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Jmpasq
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7/14/2013  9:06 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/14/2013  9:11 AM
RonRon wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The Knicks planning is shaping up pretty good despite all the moving of picks. Two years from now the Knicks will have a chance to reset and also the ability to re-sign any of the key players they want to keep. Of course they can also go after any FA they want. I fail to see how this team isn't set up for success now and in the future.

Haven't you been saying that since October 5th, 2004?

How about some perspective. It's funny how some of the people who make mention of my comments over the years fail to acknowledge the changing expectations of each team we've had over the years. Not every team has the same level of expectation placed on it. The circumstances change when you have a young team that is full of developing players or a vet team that has proven to win at a certain rate and thus the expectations are different. Therefor NONE of my comments about the team over the years has anything to do with the current situation.

Right now the team is no worse than top 5 in the East. The team has some good talent, continuity with the core of the roster and some youth added in. This team also has a good cap situation coming in 2 years when most of the contracts will end and they can reset. How can you flip this into a bad situation reminiscent of poorly managed teams of the past? You've got a competitive team for the next 2 yrs and then the ability to reset in 2 yrs if you want to go in a different direction. That's bad HOW?


I DON'T THINK ANYTHING IS GIVEN TO US, I would not say we are top 5 at all...
If Woodson does not change his coaching identity, build a philosophy that actually works, improve his adjustments/rotations
I just don't trust his coaching and he seems to build on the same philosophy that won in Detroit but he does not realize the difference in skills/bb IQ/talent/non ego issues/player personal in factor

The East has improved a lot and who is not to say that we could be a 1year wonder *meaning we overachieved last season in addition to the water downed conference with injuries*
Nixluva, you are extremely optimistic but you go from *Possibly to Likely*, basically saying you would compare the Knick's playing at their best scenario with other teams playing at their worse with injuries, a

Last season, we greatly benefitted from some of the injuries to many players
These are the #1 or at least #2 of their teams


Derrick Rose and Noah playing hurt and a good amount of DNP's *for Noah, if you actually watched him play you could tell he was not the same, he went from being a top 5 center in the league ,down to at least 10-15, and it took him much time to get back in NBA shape*

Bynum
Rhondo
Granger
Varejo and Irving *don't know if he ever will be healthy either*

Wall *took him a couple of months to play then get it game shape*, Nene *probably never will be healhty*
Deron WIlliams *coming in out of shape which took 3 months for him to get back in game shape*
Wade *recovering from surgery all summer/ 1st time he never trained in summer*


This year, The East looks like they got a lot stronger with some acquisitions form the Western Conference with the players below
The East has generally been the worse teams in general the past decade, meaning a lot of their picks were development players that likely will improve DRASTICALLY
Many teams improved this off season with trades, acquisitions, and pairings like Nets/Detroit's bigs/Cleveland
There are individual improvements/developments and TEAM/CHEMISTRY developments,


Al Jefferson
Millsap
Bynum *if healthy which he is suppose to be*
Jarret Jack

Mayo/Ridnour


Rudy Gay *he was acquired in the middle of the season and I think he will be right next to Paul George this year, unlocking the potential in him as the team's #1 option*
There are not many SF's that have the ability to play PF, and have G skills, on top of that he has great athleticism/length/strength *although skinny, but he gained weight this summer*, meaning he has the ability to also be a more complete player by at least being a GOOD DEFENDER

Playing alongside Marc Gasol and ZBO, simply did not compliment Gay because they take away the paint forcing Gay to play outside more
I agree that his STATs have been HORRIBLE in terms of efficiency but I believe he has the talent and ability to turn in around

The Knicks have a look of a 45 - 37 team to me if Melo plays at least 70 games. I see them maxing out at 48-34 and bottoming out at 42-40.


The Cavs are an intriguing team who I think makes the playoffs whether Bynum plays or not. Clev to me has drafted just average and has hurt their chances in becoming a championship team as constructed right now.They Legitimately could of been OKC East and maybe they are but I sse more of a middle of the road team.

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
tj23
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7/14/2013  5:40 PM
Gallo and Bargnani aren't very similar. Neither rebound well for their height, one plays defense, one does not. One guy has a post game, one guy is strictly a perimeter player. Oh yeah, but TALL WHITE GUY!! Same player!! Lol
nixluva
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USA
7/14/2013  6:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/14/2013  6:20 PM
RonRon wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The Knicks planning is shaping up pretty good despite all the moving of picks. Two years from now the Knicks will have a chance to reset and also the ability to re-sign any of the key players they want to keep. Of course they can also go after any FA they want. I fail to see how this team isn't set up for success now and in the future.

Haven't you been saying that since October 5th, 2004?

How about some perspective. It's funny how some of the people who make mention of my comments over the years fail to acknowledge the changing expectations of each team we've had over the years. Not every team has the same level of expectation placed on it. The circumstances change when you have a young team that is full of developing players or a vet team that has proven to win at a certain rate and thus the expectations are different. Therefor NONE of my comments about the team over the years has anything to do with the current situation.

Right now the team is no worse than top 5 in the East. The team has some good talent, continuity with the core of the roster and some youth added in. This team also has a good cap situation coming in 2 years when most of the contracts will end and they can reset. How can you flip this into a bad situation reminiscent of poorly managed teams of the past? You've got a competitive team for the next 2 yrs and then the ability to reset in 2 yrs if you want to go in a different direction. That's bad HOW?

To be fair we all love the Knicks and want them to win so badly but one playoff series win in 13 years in a big market like new york isnt too good. yes we are a playoff team but fans arent content with just making the playoffs anymore, we want the knicks to get to the ECF or even the finals. Lets afce it the knicks arent good enough to go far in the playoffs. we might win 50 games but we dont have good playoff players. we have a lot of one dimensional players and streaky players.

You don't have to tell me about the Playoffs not being enough. I'm not saying that this is a playoff team just to say we've arrived or something. I've been a Knick fan for the whole ride since the last title and it's KILLED me that we haven't won another one. Still this team is in the mix at the moment no matter what some people think about their chances. The idea is the put in the work and keep building up your team. Once you're in the top 5 you've got a chance. No one can guarantee that the Knicks can't get the ECF's and win. That's why they play the games.

Look right now our roster has 10 signed players and I like all of them. I actually think we're off to a better start roster wise than last year. We have 5 more spots to fill and try to improve this team. I can foresee a lot of players who can help t fill out this roster and give meaningful minutes. More meaningful than White, Novak or Camby and likely for longer than Sheed or KT were able to help this team. Those 5 players couldn't help us when we needed them most. I don't foresee that happening again. That's already a victory for this roster.

I'm liking the kids i'm seeing in SL. i think we can add a couple of vets and few of these kids like Tyler and Murry to help this year and beyond. If we came out of this off season with THJ, CJ, Tyler and Murry i'd be ECSTATIC!!!


In all fairness, I know you know that Novak was the utilized correctly
Woodson needs to cut the freedom and take the ball away from low % and low IQ players
By actually RUNNING PLAYS

For JR and Melo, make a move, or pass the ball up, not hold the ball as the rest of the team is unable to anticipate what they are trying to do
Melo constantly uses his energy to trying to get the ball often out to the 3pt line but is unwilling to set picks/move without the ball/fight for REB position, and give the confidence /opportunity/ and space for another player to get their shot off


NO ONE truly know's if Camby was able to contribute and play at a high level or not
But he was still very solid with a few 20+ rebounds nights with under 30mins of playing time, the season right before we traded for him
Camby and Martin were our best shot blockers and Camby was put in the doghouse and NEVER complained, that is why he is upset for being traded again
I am not saying that he could be a top 20 Center at his age but I am saying that he could at least back up Chandler for a good 20+ minutes besides on back to back nights
If given 20-28minutes a game, I think he can easily get 8-12 rebounds, 2-4 blocks, 1-2 steals, 6pts with a couple put backs and dunks
BUT HE NEVER GOT THIS OPPORTUNITY, and that is why he wants to go to a contender in the East to show what he could have still done for us but no AGAINST US

As for White, Sheed, KT, and even Kidd/Pablo

You CONSTANTLY praised what they brought to the team when they were on the team with their veteran experience, leadership, intangibles, DEF, REB, High IQ, etc, etc
Now that they are no longer Knick's, you bash them, point out their flaws, and praise other flawed players like Bargnani that are currently Knicks

This is why some posters constantly attack you, you stick your own foot in your mouth and try to justify/praise players just because they are Knick's and only think about their positives while rejecting their negatives

I personally, agree with a lot of your points in your post's, although it might not seem like it
But you contradict yourself a lot and try to justify yourself and points gets rather annoying
I do read a lot of your post's because you give thought and try to analyze the situation, rather than just PLAIN BASHING which many poster's actually just do here


You fail to see how we are not set up to be a contender?
Have you not watched out we played last season vs the Pacer's
Like DKTH says, it isn't if you lose, it is how we lose, and we NEVER STOOD a chance with the way we played vs the Pacer's or in the future vs any contending team with talent

Iso ball/spread out offense/ Woodson's philosophy on both OFF and DEF is completely flawed with the lineups/rotations he uses
Yet he is stubborn about changing ANY OF IT

On a talent level, you have to see the talent of the teams assembled, LOOK ABOVE on one my posts

You just REJECT the belief because you want to see what you want to see as a Knick fan


NixLuva's loyalty Chart
==============================


1- Dantoni - I agree with most of your posts on defending him but u reject Dantoni's flaws/stubbornness

2- Walsh - He had a gameplan with his patience, unfortunately Lebron did not come, *SIGNING HIM or another FA, while keeping our yoot's as asset's*
He tried his best to change the *OVERPAY for talent* and collect asset's/with cap space just like Houston has done
But Dolan had to interfare and NOT let him finish his job while it would have taken one more season to do since Lebron did not come
Dolan wanted the BIG NAME in STAT to attract other FA's and same for Dantoni to build a attract players to come and Dolan got them both for that purpose

No one wants to play DUMB basketball, play off Melo's inability to create for the team, and stand around and do NOTHING to compliment Melo to becoming a super hero
Woodson might be okay with JR and Melo taking 30 shots each a game but the FA is not willing to come to the team, while unable to get opportunities to shine, and good chance they (if someone takes a paycut to come* would get traded as soon as some future big name goes on the market

Walsh made many mistakes here but he is the only one that actually had a plan to build for the future and be competitive at the same time
Had we still been the GM, we would have saved the amnesty, gotten CP3, utilize all the draft picks we sent *before and after Denver trade* out much better, kept Lin, then amnesty STAT and use contract to build the role players needed, while still having the financial freedom/draft picks/assets to go with the 2015 FA class


3- Knicks, almost any moves they make

1 and 3, is quite annoying to me, the way you praise the positives and reject the negatives

I don't know why you chose to write an essay about my perceived posting flaws and beliefs, but really this is quite something. It's so wide ranging and rambling that I find it almost impossible to respond to it all.

I'm a Knicks fan, however, I try to provide a clear explanation for any point I make about the team. I don't like everything about the team but I have to also put things in perspective. With all of the points you raised I have to just boil it all down to this, The Knicks roster has changed tremendously over the last 5 years and any attempt to try and compare my statements about the team over the years with my current stance makes no sense. This is the 1st time we are returning the bulk of the roster from the previous winning season!!! Only self hating Knick fans could look at continuity from a 54 win team as a bad thing and knock the team down from 2nd to perhaps even worse than 5th. ONLY the most pessimistic could take what was a good season overall and try to make it into a negative.

You nor anyone else has any definitive proof that the Knicks are now going to be worse than last year or get knocked back due to other teams getting healthy or adding talent. For all you know the fact that this team is going to actually ADD TALENT to an already good core may make them the #2 seed again. There is more evidence for my theory than any other theory for how this season may play out.

People are only assuming that the Bulls will pass the Knicks with Rose coming back, but they haven't seen Rose play one second of regulation since his injury. You have no idea how he'll respond over the course of 82 games yet. So if I choose to believe more in the Knicks than that team I believe I have every right to feel more positively towards the Knicks.

People assume that the Nets will be better. They certainly have added a lot of talented vets, but that doesn't guarantee they'll put it all together and that the mix of talent will work. We still have to see how Kidd responds to this challenge. It's not easy to coach this much talent either. All of this remains to be seen. I'm not conceding anything to the Nets on paper.

People assume that the Pacers will now pass the Knicks, but the Pacers did not have a better regular season than the Knicks last year. They have yet to prove they can sustain a high level of play over the course of 82 games. Heck the Knicks had their slump and even more injuries and still did better than the pacers in the regular season. Yes I know the pacers beat the Knicks in the Playoffs, but that doesn't mean the Pacers are a lock to do better in the regular season this season. IMO they caught the Knicks unprepared in that 1st game on the quick turn around and JR was slumping. Those same circumstances won't necessarily be there again is they meet in the playoffs this season.

I laugh at the idea that all the naysayers are so sure that the Knicks are doomed to a lesser season this year. It's not a given IMO. The Knicks will be improved this year as well IMO. We'll have to see how things play out, but the Knicks are right there in the Mix IMO.

NUPE
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7/14/2013  9:10 PM
tj23 wrote:Gallo and Bargnani aren't very similar. Neither rebound well for their height, one plays defense, one does not. One guy has a post game, one guy is strictly a perimeter player. Oh yeah, but TALL WHITE GUY!! Same player!! Lol

This train of though that they are both similar stems from the perception that they are both tall jump shooters.

However, like you pointed out, I'd say Gallo is more of a slasher at this point that tends to get to the line while still pumping up a large amount of threes. Barg's I think plays more on the post. Neither rebounds great. Gallo plays more d.

I believe Barg's will be a more consistent perimeter shooter that can actually drive and post. The Knick's two main problems against the Pacers were poor rebounding and poor perimeter shooting. Barg's may help with the latter issuer.

Bargnani is a post player

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