TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

WELL FOR 11 years running he just has bad luck then...

even more reason to get rid of him....

I guess thats why Minn got rid of KG lol. Because in his 11 years he only got past the first round once just like Melo. And he missed the playoffs 3 years in a row. Just look at history man. Put you hate of Melo to the side just for a second. Look at supporting cast of different stars. Look at Pierce, KG, Wade, Kobe when they didn't have other all-stars alongside them. Look how kobe missed the playoffs, never got past the first round without Shaq or Pau. KG never did without 2 other all-stars next to him. Wade never did without Shaq, or his crew now. Durant this season. Lebron is one of very few exceptions. If your expectation is that he should be good enough to get to the ECF without another big time star then thats on you to adjust you expectations. My expectations of him moving us in the right direction and winning a playoff series were dead on. I can't ask anymore of him until he gets his Westbrook, Pau Gasol, KG, whoever. It was supposed to be Amare, and its not, so adjust your standards a little bit.

you keep bringing up player after player... well this is the difference all of those players.. KG, pierce, paul, durant, lebron were all decorated NBA players... or Consistent star playoff performers!

carmelo has been neither!! so to say he needs help is ridiculous.. He needs to be help first.... second he forced a trade here, if he was too dumb to see how this team was being gutted to get his dumb azz here then again, that is his fault and stupidity.. why is this so hard to see..

We are not going anywhere with this fools gold player.. and it has nothing to do with what KG needed, pierce, lebron, those guys have rings!!!! end of story.. either they were smart enough to collude with the right team, or lucky enough to be traded to a great situation.. either way, they got to the promise land..

Carmelo for 11 years has not been good enough and or just so unlucky.. either way, I don't care, he is an overrated player, making 20 mil a year and is in this position by his own doing.. End of story...

I think all they're saying is give Melo a teammate of that caliber. Give him a KG, a Westbrook, a Wade and lets see how he does. There is no doubt in my mind that Melo still puts on his sh** show that he did this year in the playoffs with a 2nd guy on his team, things would be different.

Bonn1997 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

WELL FOR 11 years running he just has bad luck then...

even more reason to get rid of him....

I guess thats why Minn got rid of KG lol. Because in his 11 years he only got past the first round once just like Melo. And he missed the playoffs 3 years in a row. Just look at history man. Put you hate of Melo to the side just for a second. Look at supporting cast of different stars. Look at Pierce, KG, Wade, Kobe when they didn't have other all-stars alongside them. Look how kobe missed the playoffs, never got past the first round without Shaq or Pau. KG never did without 2 other all-stars next to him. Wade never did without Shaq, or his crew now. Durant this season. Lebron is one of very few exceptions. If your expectation is that he should be good enough to get to the ECF without another big time star then thats on you to adjust you expectations. My expectations of him moving us in the right direction and winning a playoff series were dead on. I can't ask anymore of him until he gets his Westbrook, Pau Gasol, KG, whoever. It was supposed to be Amare, and its not, so adjust your standards a little bit.

you keep bringing up player after player... well this is the difference all of those players.. KG, pierce, paul, durant, lebron were all decorated NBA players... or Consistent star playoff performers!

carmelo has been neither!! so to say he needs help is ridiculous.. He needs to be help first.... second he forced a trade here, if he was too dumb to see how this team was being gutted to get his dumb azz here then again, that is his fault and stupidity.. why is this so hard to see..

We are not going anywhere with this fools gold player.. and it has nothing to do with what KG needed, pierce, lebron, those guys have rings!!!! end of story.. either they were smart enough to collude with the right team, or lucky enough to be traded to a great situation.. either way, they got to the promise land..

Carmelo for 11 years has not been good enough and or just so unlucky.. either way, I don't care, he is an overrated player, making 20 mil a year and is in this position by his own doing.. End of story...

I think all they're saying is give Melo a teammate of that caliber. Give him a KG, a Westbrook, a Wade and lets see how he does. There is no doubt in my mind that Melo still puts on his sh** show that he did this year in the playoffs with a 2nd guy on his team, things would be different.

How about a future hall-of-famer like Iverson?

No one considered him elite at that point. He was out of the league 2 years later. Billups was the best he had and the one year Billups was real good they went to the WCF.

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

it is not possible for those two to help each other anyway. too bad amare can't stay healthy enough to prove that to you and everyone else who feels it is never melo's fault....

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

it is not possible for those two to help each other anyway. too bad amare can't stay healthy enough to prove that to you and everyone else who feels it is never melo's fault....

I've blamed Melo when he deserved blame. I've also said this to you about as much times as you say your famous "its never melos fault" catch phrase. Just because I dont blame him as much as you like, doesnt mean I dont blame him at all.

Lastly, if Amare and Melo played together and didnt work out, I wouldnt ignore it and blame it all on Amare. I'd logically access the situation - without bias - and go from there. Im gonna ask you once more to stop generalizing.

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

it is not possible for those two to help each other anyway. too bad amare can't stay healthy enough to prove that to you and everyone else who feels it is never melo's fault....

Can you just make that your sig? That way you want have to say it at the end of all of your posts. Im just looking out for you.

I've blamed Melo when he deserved blame. I've also said this to you about as much times as you say your famous "its never melos fault" catch phrase. Just because I dont blame him as much as you like, doesnt mean I dont blame him at all.

Lastly, if Amare and Melo played together and didnt work out, I wouldnt ignore it and blame it all on Amare. I'd logically access the situation - without bias - and go from there. Im gonna ask you once more to stop generalizing.

The problem isn't the generalization. The problem is that his template for those characterized as "Melo supporters" is not accurate at all. I regularly defend Melo against guys like 3G4G, tkf and him but I'll readily admit the dudes flaws. To start:

1.) I think he was incredibly short-sighted in forcing his way here during the season. Was Amare suppose to be his no.2 man/help? Yeah but in a league where contenders were wielding a 3-headed monster (Celtics: Garnett, Pierce, Rondo/Allen ; Lakers: Kobe, Gasol, Bynum/Odom ; Heat: LeBron, Wade Bosh; Spurs: Duncan, Parker, Ginobli; etc.), he should've signed here and allow us to parlay those "assets" for another prominent player. In all honesty, he could've forced a sign and trade in the offseason and still been basically making the salary that he is now. I personally think he cost us CP3 because all signs pointed to him forcing his way to New York.

2.) Melo can be his own worst enemy by holding the ball and stagnating the offense. I think this tendency is grossly overstated but it definitely happens.

3.) Despite being a very good scorer and improved defender, he should be a better rebounder like Bonn pointed out to me. Also, he should be a much better drive and kick player as well as more fluent in the pick and roll while being the ballhandler/passer.

With that being said, I think his overall contribution to the team trumps any of his negatives which can easily be corrected especially with more capable players to shoulder the burden/demands of a contender.

NardDogNation wrote:The problem isn't the generalization. The problem is that his template for those characterized as "Melo supporters" is not accurate at all. I regularly defend Melo against guys like 3G4G, tkf and him but I'll readily admit the dudes flaws. To start:

yellowboy90 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

WELL FOR 11 years running he just has bad luck then...

even more reason to get rid of him....

I guess thats why Minn got rid of KG lol. Because in his 11 years he only got past the first round once just like Melo. And he missed the playoffs 3 years in a row. Just look at history man. Put you hate of Melo to the side just for a second. Look at supporting cast of different stars. Look at Pierce, KG, Wade, Kobe when they didn't have other all-stars alongside them. Look how kobe missed the playoffs, never got past the first round without Shaq or Pau. KG never did without 2 other all-stars next to him. Wade never did without Shaq, or his crew now. Durant this season. Lebron is one of very few exceptions. If your expectation is that he should be good enough to get to the ECF without another big time star then thats on you to adjust you expectations. My expectations of him moving us in the right direction and winning a playoff series were dead on. I can't ask anymore of him until he gets his Westbrook, Pau Gasol, KG, whoever. It was supposed to be Amare, and its not, so adjust your standards a little bit.

you keep bringing up player after player... well this is the difference all of those players.. KG, pierce, paul, durant, lebron were all decorated NBA players... or Consistent star playoff performers!

carmelo has been neither!! so to say he needs help is ridiculous.. He needs to be help first.... second he forced a trade here, if he was too dumb to see how this team was being gutted to get his dumb azz here then again, that is his fault and stupidity.. why is this so hard to see..

We are not going anywhere with this fools gold player.. and it has nothing to do with what KG needed, pierce, lebron, those guys have rings!!!! end of story.. either they were smart enough to collude with the right team, or lucky enough to be traded to a great situation.. either way, they got to the promise land..

Carmelo for 11 years has not been good enough and or just so unlucky.. either way, I don't care, he is an overrated player, making 20 mil a year and is in this position by his own doing.. End of story...

Just do me a favor and reserve judgment on his success in playoffs until he gets someone of Westbrook, KG, Gasol, etc caliber, because thats what every other player needed. He should not be treated as the exception. And don't blame him for the Denver trade. He didn't make the trade, nor could he demand who the Nuggets asked for in return. I would have done the same as him. I wouldn't want to go into a lockout without a contract, so how could we expect him to do that too?

if he wanted money so badly then he should have asked to be sent to different team than the knicks. it is crystal clear-- painfully clear-- that he and stat have zero chemistry and have no business being on the same floor together. this is conveniently glossed over in all of this. much of the objection to this ridiculous trade was the fact that those two are REDUNDANT AND DON"T MAKE OTHERS AROUND THEM BETTER AND WOULD NOT EVER MESH.

the only barely acceptable scenario in which to bring this bozo to new york would be as a free agent. if a deal cannot be made under those terms you stand pat. dolan made sure that would not happen and now we have this hot mess, pining for a better supporting cast or a genuine second star to "help support" melo in his noble quest....

Can you back this up with numbers or anything?

ask Bonn1997 he knows where to dig up these stats. meantime as i said you and other melo lovers will always have a convenient "out" because amare's inability to stay on the floor makes it less likely to be definitive.

in reality the burden is on YOU to explain to an unbeliever like me how in the world they would ever be able to mesh. or are you going to go down the route of "they just need a real floor general to get them shots and everything else will fall into place." is that your reasoning?

dk7th wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

WELL FOR 11 years running he just has bad luck then...

even more reason to get rid of him....

I guess thats why Minn got rid of KG lol. Because in his 11 years he only got past the first round once just like Melo. And he missed the playoffs 3 years in a row. Just look at history man. Put you hate of Melo to the side just for a second. Look at supporting cast of different stars. Look at Pierce, KG, Wade, Kobe when they didn't have other all-stars alongside them. Look how kobe missed the playoffs, never got past the first round without Shaq or Pau. KG never did without 2 other all-stars next to him. Wade never did without Shaq, or his crew now. Durant this season. Lebron is one of very few exceptions. If your expectation is that he should be good enough to get to the ECF without another big time star then thats on you to adjust you expectations. My expectations of him moving us in the right direction and winning a playoff series were dead on. I can't ask anymore of him until he gets his Westbrook, Pau Gasol, KG, whoever. It was supposed to be Amare, and its not, so adjust your standards a little bit.

you keep bringing up player after player... well this is the difference all of those players.. KG, pierce, paul, durant, lebron were all decorated NBA players... or Consistent star playoff performers!

carmelo has been neither!! so to say he needs help is ridiculous.. He needs to be help first.... second he forced a trade here, if he was too dumb to see how this team was being gutted to get his dumb azz here then again, that is his fault and stupidity.. why is this so hard to see..

We are not going anywhere with this fools gold player.. and it has nothing to do with what KG needed, pierce, lebron, those guys have rings!!!! end of story.. either they were smart enough to collude with the right team, or lucky enough to be traded to a great situation.. either way, they got to the promise land..

Carmelo for 11 years has not been good enough and or just so unlucky.. either way, I don't care, he is an overrated player, making 20 mil a year and is in this position by his own doing.. End of story...

Just do me a favor and reserve judgment on his success in playoffs until he gets someone of Westbrook, KG, Gasol, etc caliber, because thats what every other player needed. He should not be treated as the exception. And don't blame him for the Denver trade. He didn't make the trade, nor could he demand who the Nuggets asked for in return. I would have done the same as him. I wouldn't want to go into a lockout without a contract, so how could we expect him to do that too?

if he wanted money so badly then he should have asked to be sent to different team than the knicks. it is crystal clear-- painfully clear-- that he and stat have zero chemistry and have no business being on the same floor together. this is conveniently glossed over in all of this. much of the objection to this ridiculous trade was the fact that those two are REDUNDANT AND DON"T MAKE OTHERS AROUND THEM BETTER AND WOULD NOT EVER MESH.

the only barely acceptable scenario in which to bring this bozo to new york would be as a free agent. if a deal cannot be made under those terms you stand pat. dolan made sure that would not happen and now we have this hot mess, pining for a better supporting cast or a genuine second star to "help support" melo in his noble quest....

Can you back this up with numbers or anything?

ask Bonn1997 he knows where to dig up these stats. meantime as i said you and other melo lovers will always have a convenient "out" because amare's inability to stay on the floor makes it less likely to be definitive.

in reality the burden is on YOU to explain to an unbeliever like me how in the world they would ever be able to mesh. or are you going to go down the route of "they just need a real floor general to get them shots and everything else will fall into place." is that your reasoning?

Why in the world is a grown person directing me to another person to make their point. I did not ask Bonn I asked you. Simply say no I don't and keep it moving.

Also, why in the world would it be my burden to explain something to you? I need to put stress on myself to show you something. Come on, let's get real. You made a point the least you could do is back it up with something other than your elementary opinion. Grow up.

yellowboy90 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

WELL FOR 11 years running he just has bad luck then...

even more reason to get rid of him....

I guess thats why Minn got rid of KG lol. Because in his 11 years he only got past the first round once just like Melo. And he missed the playoffs 3 years in a row. Just look at history man. Put you hate of Melo to the side just for a second. Look at supporting cast of different stars. Look at Pierce, KG, Wade, Kobe when they didn't have other all-stars alongside them. Look how kobe missed the playoffs, never got past the first round without Shaq or Pau. KG never did without 2 other all-stars next to him. Wade never did without Shaq, or his crew now. Durant this season. Lebron is one of very few exceptions. If your expectation is that he should be good enough to get to the ECF without another big time star then thats on you to adjust you expectations. My expectations of him moving us in the right direction and winning a playoff series were dead on. I can't ask anymore of him until he gets his Westbrook, Pau Gasol, KG, whoever. It was supposed to be Amare, and its not, so adjust your standards a little bit.

you keep bringing up player after player... well this is the difference all of those players.. KG, pierce, paul, durant, lebron were all decorated NBA players... or Consistent star playoff performers!

carmelo has been neither!! so to say he needs help is ridiculous.. He needs to be help first.... second he forced a trade here, if he was too dumb to see how this team was being gutted to get his dumb azz here then again, that is his fault and stupidity.. why is this so hard to see..

We are not going anywhere with this fools gold player.. and it has nothing to do with what KG needed, pierce, lebron, those guys have rings!!!! end of story.. either they were smart enough to collude with the right team, or lucky enough to be traded to a great situation.. either way, they got to the promise land..

Carmelo for 11 years has not been good enough and or just so unlucky.. either way, I don't care, he is an overrated player, making 20 mil a year and is in this position by his own doing.. End of story...

Just do me a favor and reserve judgment on his success in playoffs until he gets someone of Westbrook, KG, Gasol, etc caliber, because thats what every other player needed. He should not be treated as the exception. And don't blame him for the Denver trade. He didn't make the trade, nor could he demand who the Nuggets asked for in return. I would have done the same as him. I wouldn't want to go into a lockout without a contract, so how could we expect him to do that too?

if he wanted money so badly then he should have asked to be sent to different team than the knicks. it is crystal clear-- painfully clear-- that he and stat have zero chemistry and have no business being on the same floor together. this is conveniently glossed over in all of this. much of the objection to this ridiculous trade was the fact that those two are REDUNDANT AND DON"T MAKE OTHERS AROUND THEM BETTER AND WOULD NOT EVER MESH.

the only barely acceptable scenario in which to bring this bozo to new york would be as a free agent. if a deal cannot be made under those terms you stand pat. dolan made sure that would not happen and now we have this hot mess, pining for a better supporting cast or a genuine second star to "help support" melo in his noble quest....

Can you back this up with numbers or anything?

ask Bonn1997 he knows where to dig up these stats. meantime as i said you and other melo lovers will always have a convenient "out" because amare's inability to stay on the floor makes it less likely to be definitive.

in reality the burden is on YOU to explain to an unbeliever like me how in the world they would ever be able to mesh. or are you going to go down the route of "they just need a real floor general to get them shots and everything else will fall into place." is that your reasoning?

Why in the world is a grown person directing me to another person to make their point. I did not ask Bonn I asked you. Simply say no I don't and keep it moving.

Also, why in the world would it be my burden to explain something to you? I need to put stress on myself to show you something. Come on, let's get real. You made a point the least you could do is back it up with something other than your elementary opinion. Grow up.

for now i will go with "anything" while waiting for Bonn1997 to come up with the numbers. have you see them on the floor together? did they fit together seamlessly like garnett and pierce or did they seem "clumsy," to borrow phil jackson's telling and insightful summation? they fail to pass the eye test 95% of the time they have been on the floor together.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

WELL FOR 11 years running he just has bad luck then...

even more reason to get rid of him....

I guess thats why Minn got rid of KG lol. Because in his 11 years he only got past the first round once just like Melo. And he missed the playoffs 3 years in a row. Just look at history man. Put you hate of Melo to the side just for a second. Look at supporting cast of different stars. Look at Pierce, KG, Wade, Kobe when they didn't have other all-stars alongside them. Look how kobe missed the playoffs, never got past the first round without Shaq or Pau. KG never did without 2 other all-stars next to him. Wade never did without Shaq, or his crew now. Durant this season. Lebron is one of very few exceptions. If your expectation is that he should be good enough to get to the ECF without another big time star then thats on you to adjust you expectations. My expectations of him moving us in the right direction and winning a playoff series were dead on. I can't ask anymore of him until he gets his Westbrook, Pau Gasol, KG, whoever. It was supposed to be Amare, and its not, so adjust your standards a little bit.

you keep bringing up player after player... well this is the difference all of those players.. KG, pierce, paul, durant, lebron were all decorated NBA players... or Consistent star playoff performers!

carmelo has been neither!! so to say he needs help is ridiculous.. He needs to be help first.... second he forced a trade here, if he was too dumb to see how this team was being gutted to get his dumb azz here then again, that is his fault and stupidity.. why is this so hard to see..

We are not going anywhere with this fools gold player.. and it has nothing to do with what KG needed, pierce, lebron, those guys have rings!!!! end of story.. either they were smart enough to collude with the right team, or lucky enough to be traded to a great situation.. either way, they got to the promise land..

Carmelo for 11 years has not been good enough and or just so unlucky.. either way, I don't care, he is an overrated player, making 20 mil a year and is in this position by his own doing.. End of story...

I think all they're saying is give Melo a teammate of that caliber. Give him a KG, a Westbrook, a Wade and lets see how he does. There is no doubt in my mind that Melo still puts on his sh** show that he did this year in the playoffs with a 2nd guy on his team, things would be different.

How about a future hall-of-famer like Iverson?

No one considered him elite at that point. He was out of the league 2 years later. Billups was the best he had and the one year Billups was real good they went to the WCF.

You're way off the mark here. John Hollinger and several others called the Nuggets instant title contenders when Iverson joined Melo. See for example this:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2702780

And does the fault lie with Melo/Iverson or John Hollinger's metrics?

John Hollinger is no infallible deity. He uses statistics but the essence of the field, or any science for that matter, is not to prove but rather, to articulate the diversity of possibilities and probabilities. As neither is absolute, you have to take what he says with a grain of salt.

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

WELL FOR 11 years running he just has bad luck then...

even more reason to get rid of him....

I guess thats why Minn got rid of KG lol. Because in his 11 years he only got past the first round once just like Melo. And he missed the playoffs 3 years in a row. Just look at history man. Put you hate of Melo to the side just for a second. Look at supporting cast of different stars. Look at Pierce, KG, Wade, Kobe when they didn't have other all-stars alongside them. Look how kobe missed the playoffs, never got past the first round without Shaq or Pau. KG never did without 2 other all-stars next to him. Wade never did without Shaq, or his crew now. Durant this season. Lebron is one of very few exceptions. If your expectation is that he should be good enough to get to the ECF without another big time star then thats on you to adjust you expectations. My expectations of him moving us in the right direction and winning a playoff series were dead on. I can't ask anymore of him until he gets his Westbrook, Pau Gasol, KG, whoever. It was supposed to be Amare, and its not, so adjust your standards a little bit.

you keep bringing up player after player... well this is the difference all of those players.. KG, pierce, paul, durant, lebron were all decorated NBA players... or Consistent star playoff performers!

carmelo has been neither!! so to say he needs help is ridiculous.. He needs to be help first.... second he forced a trade here, if he was too dumb to see how this team was being gutted to get his dumb azz here then again, that is his fault and stupidity.. why is this so hard to see..

We are not going anywhere with this fools gold player.. and it has nothing to do with what KG needed, pierce, lebron, those guys have rings!!!! end of story.. either they were smart enough to collude with the right team, or lucky enough to be traded to a great situation.. either way, they got to the promise land..

Carmelo for 11 years has not been good enough and or just so unlucky.. either way, I don't care, he is an overrated player, making 20 mil a year and is in this position by his own doing.. End of story...

I think all they're saying is give Melo a teammate of that caliber. Give him a KG, a Westbrook, a Wade and lets see how he does. There is no doubt in my mind that Melo still puts on his sh** show that he did this year in the playoffs with a 2nd guy on his team, things would be different.

How about a future hall-of-famer like Iverson?

No one considered him elite at that point. He was out of the league 2 years later. Billups was the best he had and the one year Billups was real good they went to the WCF.

You're way off the mark here. John Hollinger and several others called the Nuggets instant title contenders when Iverson joined Melo. See for example this:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2702780

And over the course of this season ESPN also said the Knicks were title contenders as well as the Nuggets. So what's your point? ESPN is a "flavour of the week" type of analysis so sorry i can't say this validates anything.