Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Vmart wrote:Forget the sources, everyone knows that the Knicks need to get better. They need help scoring all their bigs were a big let down this year. Relying on JR Smith to be a scoring option isn't what you call a smart decision. Ray Felton coming up small in elimination game speaks volumes about his game. Shumpert is still feeling his way through the injury. So if you really look at the Knicks roster they need help a lot of it because most of the vets they relied on for the fast start are done.

All the vets are broken down players. Amare can't really rely on him to be healthy, same with Camby, Kidd is finished, Wallace retired, and Kenyon is a one way player at this stage in his career. There is very little to work with for the Knicks. I can't see the Knicks having a year like they did this year. The Knicks window was this year only unlike Boston had with their vets KG, Peirce and Allen.

Knicks at are a stage where they have to create a new window of opportunity. The window for this current team is closed.

I agree with you but I think we have a core u settling issue that unless addressed will mean we won't be able to win a chip with Melo. It's the combination of a "Star" player who is a one dimensional ball hog and a coach unable to design and run an offense.

If we can get a coach who can force Melo to play in an offensive system and not have him pout about the ridiculous number of shots he is jacking up or if we can get another star player who becomes the primary option with Melo playing the secondary option then our window will re-open.

What we will do instead is repeat this insanity where we spend the entire season without an offensive plan and without involving any of the supporting cast in the offense and then when Melo fails to score 60 points during the playoffs we will pint fingers at everyone but him.

What no one explains is how the supporting players are suddenly expected to start making shots after being completely ignored and forgotten on offense throughout the entire season. That applies to just about everyone except JR and he had a meltdown.

Our problems are simple:

A. Melo can't play with others who need to score the ball - unless he had a guy like Coach K to check his ego
B. Melo then has issues with not having others that can score the ball
C. Woody doesn't know how to coach an offense

If we can solve one of those we might get closer.

We need a scorer bad, one who can shoot and play off of Melo. If its a guard they must be a 3-pt shooter, if its a bigman they must be a solid midrange shooter and post scorer in the David West mold. But we need a guy. I would like to see Shumpert become the 3rd option and JR Smith as the 4th option and 6th man of course. Shumpert does have star potential and can increase his role each year, but we need that 2nd guy now and can't rely on him to be that until year 4 or 5.

we need a star player Melo can play off. Not a scorer to play off Melo. Scorers dont play off Melo because he doesnt pass the ball.

Thought after 10 years in the NBA folks would realize what he is and stop trying to make him into something else.

He needs a player similar to Billups. I never considered Billups a true star (close to it), but the perfect 2nd option to Melo. Only problem was Billups was towards the end of his prime. We need that type of player. Durant has Westbrook in that role. Sort of a 1B guy. Nothing wrong with that, most guys need that to compete for a title.

No one blows up a team that's a lock to reach the finals and compete for a chip right now - yes Durant has help AND far more importantly he appreciates what he has. He doesn't need to take all the shots and play for the scoring title. Does anyone label Durant as selfish or one dimensional? Are you really comparing our dear black hole with Kevin Durant????

Melo's problem is his selfishness and no amount of help can cure him of that. And unless he himself is able to get past it all he will ever be is world's most talented one dimensional ball hog and mental midget.

This issue in combination with Woody's complete inability to coach an offense will mean the exact sane results next year and beyond. There isn't one player in the league outside of CP3 tgat both Melo and Woody will allow to dictate terms. And we can't get him no matter what goes down.

Again we need one of two things to happen:

Coaching change -where we get a guy like Coach K, PJAX or Sloan
Primary star player - for some combination of Tyson/Shumpert/STAT/Melo

I don't care which -but the team as it stands now will be third or fourthin the East behind Heat, Pacers, Bulls and Celts - IIWII

Bottom line is if Melo and durant switched places each team would expect similar results. Your opinion about Melo is nothing but that. I look at results. He got us to the second round without another star. Melo haters think he should have told Denver not to trade him so he could sign with us for less money in the lockout offseason. Be realistic. Also look at his supporting cast. Good role players who looked better around him, but were asked to do too much. Of course he will be selfish. Your personal agenda against him is just unreal. Give him a secondary star and we are competing with Miami right now.

the problem is many of you guys think "melo got us to the second round".... as subpar as he has played in the playoffs you think that is what got us to the second round?

All I hear is the same thing on all of the threads. Melo is selfish , Melo don't defend, Melo is overrated. One thing I know for sure. Melo is an allstar, Melo is a hall of famer on the 1st ballot, Melo is a pure shooter and Melo will be a New York Knick for quite some time. Dolan ain't letting his cash cow go. So with that in mind. Complaining and calling Melo names won't get you anywhere. Why can't we have a constructive positive discussion about the need for more talent.
The problem I see in the future is if Woody does not open up the offense and play Melo ball Woody will be gone. I think since Melo won the scoring title this year it won't be as important as much anymore. We can help Melo by getting a big ass Center and power foward who can score and hit jump shots and defend. A big defending and scoring big man should be our priority. Let's get another star.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

All I hear is the same thing on all of the threads. Melo is selfish , Melo don't defend, Melo is overrated. One thing I know for sure. Melo is an allstar, Melo is a hall of famer on the 1st ballot, Melo is a pure shooter and Melo will be a New York Knick for quite some time. Dolan ain't letting his cash cow go. So with that in mind. Complaining and calling Melo names won't get you anywhere. Why can't we have a constructive positive discussion about the need for more talent.
The problem I see in the future is if Woody does not open up the offense and play Melo ball Woody will be gone. I think since Melo won the scoring title this year it won't be as important as much anymore. We can help Melo by getting a big ass Center and power foward who can score and hit jump shots and defend. A big defending and scoring big man should be our priority. Let's get another star.

Good call. Every time the topic is switched to something constructive, it goes right back to this nonsense. We need to focus on this team and how to make it better and not all the fantasy stuff with Melo being traded for picks or if he came here for free a couple years ago.

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Vmart wrote:Forget the sources, everyone knows that the Knicks need to get better. They need help scoring all their bigs were a big let down this year. Relying on JR Smith to be a scoring option isn't what you call a smart decision. Ray Felton coming up small in elimination game speaks volumes about his game. Shumpert is still feeling his way through the injury. So if you really look at the Knicks roster they need help a lot of it because most of the vets they relied on for the fast start are done.

All the vets are broken down players. Amare can't really rely on him to be healthy, same with Camby, Kidd is finished, Wallace retired, and Kenyon is a one way player at this stage in his career. There is very little to work with for the Knicks. I can't see the Knicks having a year like they did this year. The Knicks window was this year only unlike Boston had with their vets KG, Peirce and Allen.

Knicks at are a stage where they have to create a new window of opportunity. The window for this current team is closed.

I agree with you but I think we have a core u settling issue that unless addressed will mean we won't be able to win a chip with Melo. It's the combination of a "Star" player who is a one dimensional ball hog and a coach unable to design and run an offense.

If we can get a coach who can force Melo to play in an offensive system and not have him pout about the ridiculous number of shots he is jacking up or if we can get another star player who becomes the primary option with Melo playing the secondary option then our window will re-open.

What we will do instead is repeat this insanity where we spend the entire season without an offensive plan and without involving any of the supporting cast in the offense and then when Melo fails to score 60 points during the playoffs we will pint fingers at everyone but him.

What no one explains is how the supporting players are suddenly expected to start making shots after being completely ignored and forgotten on offense throughout the entire season. That applies to just about everyone except JR and he had a meltdown.

Our problems are simple:

A. Melo can't play with others who need to score the ball - unless he had a guy like Coach K to check his ego
B. Melo then has issues with not having others that can score the ball
C. Woody doesn't know how to coach an offense

If we can solve one of those we might get closer.

We need a scorer bad, one who can shoot and play off of Melo. If its a guard they must be a 3-pt shooter, if its a bigman they must be a solid midrange shooter and post scorer in the David West mold. But we need a guy. I would like to see Shumpert become the 3rd option and JR Smith as the 4th option and 6th man of course. Shumpert does have star potential and can increase his role each year, but we need that 2nd guy now and can't rely on him to be that until year 4 or 5.

we need a star player Melo can play off. Not a scorer to play off Melo. Scorers dont play off Melo because he doesnt pass the ball.

Thought after 10 years in the NBA folks would realize what he is and stop trying to make him into something else.

He needs a player similar to Billups. I never considered Billups a true star (close to it), but the perfect 2nd option to Melo. Only problem was Billups was towards the end of his prime. We need that type of player. Durant has Westbrook in that role. Sort of a 1B guy. Nothing wrong with that, most guys need that to compete for a title.

No one blows up a team that's a lock to reach the finals and compete for a chip right now - yes Durant has help AND far more importantly he appreciates what he has. He doesn't need to take all the shots and play for the scoring title. Does anyone label Durant as selfish or one dimensional? Are you really comparing our dear black hole with Kevin Durant????

Melo's problem is his selfishness and no amount of help can cure him of that. And unless he himself is able to get past it all he will ever be is world's most talented one dimensional ball hog and mental midget.

This issue in combination with Woody's complete inability to coach an offense will mean the exact sane results next year and beyond. There isn't one player in the league outside of CP3 tgat both Melo and Woody will allow to dictate terms. And we can't get him no matter what goes down.

Again we need one of two things to happen:

Coaching change -where we get a guy like Coach K, PJAX or Sloan
Primary star player - for some combination of Tyson/Shumpert/STAT/Melo

I don't care which -but the team as it stands now will be third or fourthin the East behind Heat, Pacers, Bulls and Celts - IIWII

Bottom line is if Melo and durant switched places each team would expect similar results. Your opinion about Melo is nothing but that. I look at results. He got us to the second round without another star. Melo haters think he should have told Denver not to trade him so he could sign with us for less money in the lockout offseason. Be realistic. Also look at his supporting cast. Good role players who looked better around him, but were asked to do too much. Of course he will be selfish. Your personal agenda against him is just unreal. Give him a secondary star and we are competing with Miami right now.

the problem is many of you guys think "melo got us to the second round".... as subpar as he has played in the playoffs you think that is what got us to the second round?

Who do you think deserves the lion's share of the credit in the playoffs for how far they got?

At the end of the day, it's coming down to you star player and coach..he has the ball more then anybody, he's playing more minutes then anybody, the playbook has more plays for him then anybody, he's who most of the fans came to see and the team relies on there go to guy to make them better individually and as a team..Thats why you get paid the big $$$$$

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Vmart wrote:Forget the sources, everyone knows that the Knicks need to get better. They need help scoring all their bigs were a big let down this year. Relying on JR Smith to be a scoring option isn't what you call a smart decision. Ray Felton coming up small in elimination game speaks volumes about his game. Shumpert is still feeling his way through the injury. So if you really look at the Knicks roster they need help a lot of it because most of the vets they relied on for the fast start are done.

All the vets are broken down players. Amare can't really rely on him to be healthy, same with Camby, Kidd is finished, Wallace retired, and Kenyon is a one way player at this stage in his career. There is very little to work with for the Knicks. I can't see the Knicks having a year like they did this year. The Knicks window was this year only unlike Boston had with their vets KG, Peirce and Allen.

Knicks at are a stage where they have to create a new window of opportunity. The window for this current team is closed.

I agree with you but I think we have a core u settling issue that unless addressed will mean we won't be able to win a chip with Melo. It's the combination of a "Star" player who is a one dimensional ball hog and a coach unable to design and run an offense.

If we can get a coach who can force Melo to play in an offensive system and not have him pout about the ridiculous number of shots he is jacking up or if we can get another star player who becomes the primary option with Melo playing the secondary option then our window will re-open.

What we will do instead is repeat this insanity where we spend the entire season without an offensive plan and without involving any of the supporting cast in the offense and then when Melo fails to score 60 points during the playoffs we will pint fingers at everyone but him.

What no one explains is how the supporting players are suddenly expected to start making shots after being completely ignored and forgotten on offense throughout the entire season. That applies to just about everyone except JR and he had a meltdown.

Our problems are simple:

A. Melo can't play with others who need to score the ball - unless he had a guy like Coach K to check his ego
B. Melo then has issues with not having others that can score the ball
C. Woody doesn't know how to coach an offense

If we can solve one of those we might get closer.

We need a scorer bad, one who can shoot and play off of Melo. If its a guard they must be a 3-pt shooter, if its a bigman they must be a solid midrange shooter and post scorer in the David West mold. But we need a guy. I would like to see Shumpert become the 3rd option and JR Smith as the 4th option and 6th man of course. Shumpert does have star potential and can increase his role each year, but we need that 2nd guy now and can't rely on him to be that until year 4 or 5.

we need a star player Melo can play off. Not a scorer to play off Melo. Scorers dont play off Melo because he doesnt pass the ball.

Thought after 10 years in the NBA folks would realize what he is and stop trying to make him into something else.

He needs a player similar to Billups. I never considered Billups a true star (close to it), but the perfect 2nd option to Melo. Only problem was Billups was towards the end of his prime. We need that type of player. Durant has Westbrook in that role. Sort of a 1B guy. Nothing wrong with that, most guys need that to compete for a title.

No one blows up a team that's a lock to reach the finals and compete for a chip right now - yes Durant has help AND far more importantly he appreciates what he has. He doesn't need to take all the shots and play for the scoring title. Does anyone label Durant as selfish or one dimensional? Are you really comparing our dear black hole with Kevin Durant????

Melo's problem is his selfishness and no amount of help can cure him of that. And unless he himself is able to get past it all he will ever be is world's most talented one dimensional ball hog and mental midget.

This issue in combination with Woody's complete inability to coach an offense will mean the exact sane results next year and beyond. There isn't one player in the league outside of CP3 tgat both Melo and Woody will allow to dictate terms. And we can't get him no matter what goes down.

Again we need one of two things to happen:

Coaching change -where we get a guy like Coach K, PJAX or Sloan
Primary star player - for some combination of Tyson/Shumpert/STAT/Melo

I don't care which -but the team as it stands now will be third or fourthin the East behind Heat, Pacers, Bulls and Celts - IIWII

Bottom line is if Melo and durant switched places each team would expect similar results. Your opinion about Melo is nothing but that. I look at results. He got us to the second round without another star. Melo haters think he should have told Denver not to trade him so he could sign with us for less money in the lockout offseason. Be realistic. Also look at his supporting cast. Good role players who looked better around him, but were asked to do too much. Of course he will be selfish. Your personal agenda against him is just unreal. Give him a secondary star and we are competing with Miami right now.

the problem is many of you guys think "melo got us to the second round".... as subpar as he has played in the playoffs you think that is what got us to the second round?

Who do you think deserves the lion's share of the credit in the playoffs for how far they got?

no one, they played a declining boston team without rondo... at different points in the series certain players played better than others.. felton played particularly well if you ask me... but the knicks struggled with that boston team, games in which they were down and probably could have lost.... No one deserves credit for that...it was just that boston was worse than the knicks...

Papabear wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I don't why know some insist on going back to to the origin of melo to the knicks, doesn't even matter, he's here.. Grunwald was looking like a wizard up until the game 6 of the 2nd round of the 2012/2013 playoffs.

But what these playoffs have done is exposed the hell out the knicks roster and now grunwald isn't looking close to a competent GM..Nobody on the roster played consistent right down to the coach.

The loading up on vets back fired so bad,you wanna put your head down and pray nobody notice...TOO LATE, then playing them ridciculous minutes to capture home court that you gave away in the 1st damn game..

Remember when they kept giving DON Cheney extensions even though he kept losing,and I don't want to put woodson in the same BOAT, but as GM you have to be concern with what you have witness in your coaches playoff history..IT AINT GOOD..

When Melo is talking about needing help, should we think that he's tired of woodson calling his # all the time or is melo calling his own number..

Papabear Says

I think Melo took a beating this season and he does not want to go through that again. Since he won the scoring title and took a beating I think he really wants and needs help. He does not want to get a beating like this season again. I believe that he really wants a title and is willing to do what it takes and even giving up some money to get star or good players.

I feel this too. I remember when Wade asked for help and guess what happened next LeBron and Bosh. I think you can take a pulse of the team by what it's star player needs. I think Melo has had enough of playing out of position. Last night I saw LeBron get frustrated guarding West at PF to the point where he was uncharacteristically playing flustered and committing fouls.

Knicks need a scoring big man and a scoring PF and a star PG or someone who can create. Also Woody needs to get better a execution offense by that I don't mean executing isolation plays.

Clean wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:The argument that Melo should have waited to sign to become a free agent is getting very irritating. Have any of you taken the time to research the details? Have any of you taken the time out to put yourself in that position? Stop just throwing out arguments that are not based off facts, but what you've heard on a message board. This notion that he could have signed as a free agent with a lock out pending is shot down again and again by current and ex players, business and sports experts for the 1000th time. Some of you are looking less and less credible.

New york had 2 decisions, don't sign him or trade for him. That's it. What's so hard to comprehend? There wasn't a free agency option at the time. That was not an option. So instead of placing blame on Melo, it's management that made the decision.

huh? I am pretty sure there was a free agency for that offseason. So, I am not sure where you are going with this post.

This is why I say a lot of people are leaving out a lot of details and not doing their research.

1. free agency period for the 2011-12 season began on Fri., Dec. 9 at 2 p.m. ET. Melo would have been a free agent until then and would have not been insured.

2. As a free agent, in a new cap system that is sure to be far more restrictive than the previous CBA, Anthony wouldn’t get the same amount of money. And, possibly, in a more restrictive system, with a lower percentage of the Basketball Related Income going to the players, the Knicks might not have had enough cap room to get him. - ESPN

3. Going into a lock out, not knowing the outcome without a contract is the dumbest business move an athlete can make. And honestly, I don't think anyone of you would take such a risk either. Which meant, he either resigns with DENVER or gets traded. That's why I said free agency was not an Option!!!!

“I knew free agency was coming, I knew it would be altered, I knew it’d be messed up, so imagine if I’d have stayed. I’d have been a free agent now in limbo.” - Melo (Newsday)

4. After the coming lockout, you can bet that if there is a salary cap it will be lower and the punishments for exceeding it will be harsher (the max deal money may be lower as well). The new CBA will make it harder to get Anthony even if the Knicks were able to dump the salaries of Anthony Randolph and Timofey Mozgov on some unsuspecting soul. - NBC Sports

Like I said, same dumb arguments from the same agenda driven posters that are not based on anything.

Knixkik wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

Clean wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:The argument that Melo should have waited to sign to become a free agent is getting very irritating. Have any of you taken the time to research the details? Have any of you taken the time out to put yourself in that position? Stop just throwing out arguments that are not based off facts, but what you've heard on a message board. This notion that he could have signed as a free agent with a lock out pending is shot down again and again by current and ex players, business and sports experts for the 1000th time. Some of you are looking less and less credible.

New york had 2 decisions, don't sign him or trade for him. That's it. What's so hard to comprehend? There wasn't a free agency option at the time. That was not an option. So instead of placing blame on Melo, it's management that made the decision.

huh? I am pretty sure there was a free agency for that offseason. So, I am not sure where you are going with this post.

This is why I say a lot of people are leaving out a lot of details and not doing their research.

1. free agency period for the 2011-12 season began on Fri., Dec. 9 at 2 p.m. ET. Melo would have been a free agent until then and would have not been insured.

2. As a free agent, in a new cap system that is sure to be far more restrictive than the previous CBA, Anthony wouldn’t get the same amount of money. And, possibly, in a more restrictive system, with a lower percentage of the Basketball Related Income going to the players, the Knicks might not have had enough cap room to get him. - ESPN

3. Going into a lock out, not knowing the outcome without a contract is the dumbest business move an athlete can make. And honestly, I don't think anyone of you would take such a risk either. Which meant, he either resigns with DENVER or gets traded. That's why I said free agency was not an Option!!!!

“I knew free agency was coming, I knew it would be altered, I knew it’d be messed up, so imagine if I’d have stayed. I’d have been a free agent now in limbo.” - Melo (Newsday)

4. After the coming lockout, you can bet that if there is a salary cap it will be lower and the punishments for exceeding it will be harsher (the max deal money may be lower as well). The new CBA will make it harder to get Anthony even if the Knicks were able to dump the salaries of Anthony Randolph and Timofey Mozgov on some unsuspecting soul. - NBC Sports

Like I said, same dumb arguments from the same agenda driven posters that are not based on anything.

Great work finding this. Hope it puts that fantasy theory of him waited for free agency to rest. Not to mention had he waited, he would have been traded to Bk anyways, and we would have taken Dwill instead who everyone here would be even worst towards.

I don't even think Knicks get dwil. I think king had the inside track because of his relationship with Utah.

I think Melo to Brooklyn was a real possibility, so Dolan did what they thought they needed to do to stay ahead of them. And when you compare their reg season and playoff records, it was successful.

I think Melo played like a warrior. He's just not a general. Great point also made upthread about how the vets had him sharing the ball in the beginning. But as their wheels fell off, he either reverted to bad habits, or Woodson enabled him, or he was the only workhorse left able to carry the load. I'm not savvy enough about the game to really tell the difference.

Anyway, the article that kicked this off was Berman trollbait.