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yellowboy90
Posts: 33942 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 4/23/2011 Member: #3538 |
2/13/2013 8:43 AM
fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:this about what I expect from the forums these days. I asked a pretty reasonable question. While we have an MVP and superstar how are we going to win in the playoffs? What will be our formula? Are we just hoping Melo doesnt shoot 41%? Or are we going to try to get higher % shots? Are we going to make it up on defense? Rebounding? Folks would rather defend their hero than actually talk Knicks.dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:NYKMentality wrote:Im one of those clueless ones. Why are Melo's #s so poor in the playoffs compared to his regular season? Melo is a career 41% post season shooter and owns the worst postseason winning % of all active players for the last 20 years.gunsnewing wrote:Also Lebron singlehandedly lead a pathetic Cleveland team to the finals before the age of 25 How are they going to win: With focused D and good offense. Good offense you say. What is that? That is Melo and Amar'e working the two man game which we have seen at times. It's the PnR with Chandler from Felton. PnR with Felton and Amar'e. It's side PnR with Shump and Amar'e when he is on the weak side. If you notice Woody is not running many PnRs with Amar'e a guy who has been a heavy PnR player. Why. Could be because they are trying to limit his activity while letting him perfect his Post game because that is what they will need in the playoffs. Now the Defense. It really depends on the bigs coming back. How can you depend on aging legs. It is a gamble but Let's say they can play. You have rebounding and blocks to help the 2nd unit and let Chandler get his rest so he doesn't turn into FLu-boy. I also think there will be more zone. So far I have seen a 2-3 and a box n 1 match up zone. That will be tried against the Heat to stop them more than likely if they play each other. The real key to playoff success will be the 2 guard play. Kidd, Shump, and JR must be on there games. Will they? Who knows. What I know is that Smith usually gets better in the 2nd half of the season throughout his career. I know Shump has not worked his way back yet but has plenty of time. I do not know about Kidd. Although most people thought he was done in the pre-season but I thought he was coasting. Kidd is a vet and needs rest but that may happen when Shump is off his restrictions so Kidd can go into the playoffs rested.
So here are my keys that I will be watching for when late March comes around: 1) Are they still doubling the post 2) How are they playing the PnR 3) Is Amar'e still healthy 4) Has Shump improved 5) Are the bigs back 6) Is Felton still taking less shots since his return 7)Wing play 8) consistent defense 9) some more things I don't feel like listing because I am getting bored Also, regards to expecting a change in Melo: If you look at his shot chart you will see that he is taking more shots in his hot zones than before. A lot more. As good as he has been playing we still have not seen him go off like he does during each season which is interesting to me. Also, going back to last year Melo has assisted Amar'e more than any player. Now with amar'e posting they can be even better in the 2man game. The frontline of Chandler, Amar'e, and Melo are destroying teams before the Clippers game. |
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/2/2004 Member: #581 USA |
2/13/2013 9:17 AM LAST EDITED: 2/13/2013 9:18 AM
raven wrote:NYKMentality wrote:dk7th wrote:but seriously the knicks are in trouble here. woodson is unimaginative and does not motivate anthony properly. and it will cost the knicks in the playoffs. melo is in limbo as a tweener because he doesn't rebound or defend effectively enough to make up for the volume shooting, low assists, and obscene usage rate relative to the assist rate of the team with him on the floor. Are you sure you're not interested in these stats only because you have an anti-Melo agenda?!  Seriously, the idea that some newbie like NYKM can say that my or DK's preference for well-validated stats came only after we got Melo and as a way to criticize Melo is ridiculous. You weren't here before we had Melo, NYKM - you wouldn't know what came first! |
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TeamBall
Posts: 24343 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 11/13/2012 Member: #4386 |
2/13/2013 9:39 AM
IronWillGiroud wrote:TeamBall wrote:IronWillGiroud wrote:Not only is Gallo a better value but he is 50 times more fun to watch on the hardwoods You said nothing about that. You said watching Gallinari is 50 times more fun than watching Melo. I disagree with that. However, im obviously a fan of team basketball so we agree there. I also think that the isos this season are more on the coach than it is on Melo. Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
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dk7th
Posts: 30006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 5/14/2012 Member: #4228 USA |
2/13/2013 12:16 PM LAST EDITED: 2/13/2013 12:20 PM
raven wrote:NYKMentality wrote:dk7th wrote:but seriously the knicks are in trouble here. woodson is unimaginative and does not motivate anthony properly. and it will cost the knicks in the playoffs. melo is in limbo as a tweener because he doesn't rebound or defend effectively enough to make up for the volume shooting, low assists, and obscene usage rate relative to the assist rate of the team with him on the floor.
that said, i want to make two observations: first, the jump to where i found the RAPM from your article also had this to say about PER: "PER stands for Player Efficiency Rating (click on the link to see the formula) and was developed by John Hollinger (ESPN). Although a lot of people these days tend to criticize Hollinger, it should be noted that he is one of the most influential of the early APBRmetricians and is still well-respected in that community. There are several common criticisms of PER: 1) It does not account for defense, except for blocks and defensive rebounds; 2) It tends to reward high-volume, low-efficiency scorers; and 3) It is not useful as a predictive tool." i wanted to cite this very important quote because melo is the very definition of high volume and low efficiency for almost his entire career! and second, i noticed that andre iguodala is ALSO on this exclusive list. you have to wonder if the denver front office, like the grizzlies, are starting to rely on these measures to assemble a contender. not that afflalo was a slouch-- i bet he ranks fairly well on RAPM. but you have to figure that once iguodala figures things out and settles in, the denver nuggets are going to be a very tough out in the playoffs. EDIT: here's the jump to the advanced stats site: http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2011/12/6/2602153/advanced-stats-primer knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
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tkf
Posts: 36487 Alba Posts: 6 Joined: 8/13/2001 Member: #87 |
2/13/2013 12:44 PM
IronWillGiroud wrote:This isn't fun to you??: i can watch this over and over and over......... Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser...............
TKF
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tkf
Posts: 36487 Alba Posts: 6 Joined: 8/13/2001 Member: #87 |
2/13/2013 12:53 PM
dk7th wrote:raven wrote:NYKMentality wrote:dk7th wrote:but seriously the knicks are in trouble here. woodson is unimaginative and does not motivate anthony properly. and it will cost the knicks in the playoffs. melo is in limbo as a tweener because he doesn't rebound or defend effectively enough to make up for the volume shooting, low assists, and obscene usage rate relative to the assist rate of the team with him on the floor. I figured you would get a lot out of this.. some interesting stuff... RAPM, when I saw that, I was thinking dk would be able to really get into this.. again, pretty impressive when you look at where gallo ranks.. way too often when we hear people talk about this player being better than the other, or this player being great, the first thing mentioned is PPG... and often ignored is how those points are made, and what affect does that player really have on that team.. I will never have to look at ginobli ppg to figure out how much he affects a game, actually with him, ppg is the least thing I look at.. some people are so caught up on scoring... and honestly if you really want me to go gaga over scoring.. do something else great with it.. like shoot at an amazing 50+ % clip.... Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser...............
TKF
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dimes5
Posts: 20001 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 2/13/2013 Member: #4488 |
2/13/2013 1:10 PM
Has anyone stopped to think that the fact that Carmelo is even talking about overtaking Lebron for MVP might indicate that he is more focused on individual accolades as opposed to team accolades?
If Carmelo's primary goal was truly to help the Knicks win a championship, his response to these type questions might be, I am only thinking about winning a title right now...if I happen to win MVP that would be a nice bonus. Instead, each game, Carmelo comes out in full stat padding mode, trying to take over the game from the 1st quarter. That’s why, when opposing defenses adjust later in the game, his teammates cannot step up. In fact, other than JR "the chuck" Smith, nobody else has touched the ball enough to be in any type of rhythm to perform when the game is on the line. A real "team oriented" superstar would first try to get everyone else in rhythm early in the game and then try to take over later crunch time. By then, if the defense starts to double and triple team, when he is forced to pass, the ball will not feel like a hot potato to his teammates. |
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knickscity
Posts: 24533 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 6/2/2012 Member: #4241 USA |
2/13/2013 1:14 PM
dimes5 wrote:Has anyone stopped to think that the fact that Carmelo is even talking about overtaking Lebron for MVP might indicate that he is more focused on individual accolades as opposed to team accolades? There is only so many times you can say you want to win, folks wont believe it anyway until they see it. I do agree, I'd love to see him get his teammates involved first, but lets be honest...most of them are subpar at best. We feature a 1-2-3 position with guys all under 42% from the field....sometimes i dont blame him for doing it on his own. |
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dk7th
Posts: 30006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 5/14/2012 Member: #4228 USA |
2/13/2013 1:20 PM
tkf wrote:dk7th wrote:raven wrote:NYKMentality wrote:dk7th wrote:but seriously the knicks are in trouble here. woodson is unimaginative and does not motivate anthony properly. and it will cost the knicks in the playoffs. melo is in limbo as a tweener because he doesn't rebound or defend effectively enough to make up for the volume shooting, low assists, and obscene usage rate relative to the assist rate of the team with him on the floor.
i think this observation connotes the suspicion i have about melo, which is that he is a tweener in the nba, which comes with its positives and negatives. positives are that he is quicker than many power forwards and bigger than many small forwards. this helps his offense and i guess occasionally forces cross matches for defenses. people who love his game praise how versatile he is as a scorer and what a tough cover he is. but FG% being too low for a power forward kind of reduces the credibility of such statements. negatives are, predictably, the obverse of the positives: though strong he is too small to defend bigger power forwards. he gets stuffed an awful lot by the rim. and though he can be quick on offense, his reaction time defensively against smaller and quicker wings may inhibit his effectiveness as a defender on the perimeter as well. i think my favorite shot of his is the spin move to the baseline on the right side, from about 12-15 away. he should really try using that more. knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
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jrodmc
Posts: 32927 Alba Posts: 50 Joined: 11/24/2004 Member: #805 USA |
2/13/2013 1:31 PM
tkf wrote:IronWillGiroud wrote:This isn't fun to you??: You don't say. What....a....surprise... |
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NUPE
Posts: 21221 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 4/29/2012 Member: #4205 |
2/13/2013 2:58 PM
Another Melo thread... LoL!
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yellowboy90
Posts: 33942 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 4/23/2011 Member: #3538 |
2/13/2013 4:02 PM
IronWillGiroud wrote:This isn't fun to you??: More fun than this? I think not. I've been up to long I might be turning into NYm |
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CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
2/13/2013 5:20 PM
dimes5 wrote:Has anyone stopped to think that the fact that Carmelo is even talking about overtaking Lebron for MVP might indicate that he is more focused on individual accolades as opposed to team accolades?I only read one article today on the mvp stuff. However, what I saw was Carmelo being asked about LBJ's incredible run recently. I didn't see anything about him talking about himself. I also read two articles where Shump and Cope were talking about Melo, Tyson and Amare working with them after practice. Cope and Shump both brought that up. I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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