holfresh wrote:Boston had 21-23 record when Rondo tore his ACL..They were the eight seed in the conference at the time..Maybe u were predicting a big run for them??..Your prediction track record ain't that good..

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43156&page=2

while searching-- in vain-- for the smoking gun of my 7th seed prediction, here is some good material i gleaned from early in the season last year:

"sorry but unless melo cuts back on the ill-advised shots-- i counted at least 4 or 5 last night-- it's going to be tough for the knicks to excel beyond the first round. the flipside of the ill-advised shots: passing out of converging doubles. he did it a few times but you just knew he could not sustain that focus and poise-- his habit is to get shot happy and that isn't going to fly. 7-16 but 1-6 from 3 = shot happy. good news is he is finally defending with some heart and he seems to be finishing at the rim better than i remember him ever as a knickerbocker. here is a key stat: 54.4% true shooting through 3 games. this is below average for a great scorer. it needs to be a whole lot closer to 60% if he is going truly help the team win in the playoffs. PLAYOFFS"

"on defense you're preaching to the choir. don't have much patience for the +/- stat to be honest. what's it good for? no doubt the way melo handles himself on defense has a trickle-down effect-- that is one mark of a leader... how he plays defense and makes hustle plays.
but you can't at the same time tell me that bad shot selection doesn't also have a trickle-down effect. eventually poor shots undermine cohesion and focus. we are looking at three games at the beginning of the season, not 3 games against a second round playoff team.
all of our focus on this team should be informed by how well they look as a strong second-round playoff team."

"i see the same frustrating pattern and i don't see lazy, i see a lack of poise, patience, and craftiness. he gets all jacked up-- the broadcasters called them "adrenaline shots"-- with his short-term success and decides to throw his game and the game out the window.
but look we can all agree that he's attacking and finishing better, he is playing some honest defense, and he is making hustle plays... so i give him credit for that. but come playoff time he has got to cut down completely on the adrenaline shots and be prepared to pass out of whatever double teams come his way and every time. dirk did it and look what happened. no question his shot selection has been his achilles heel, among other things, his entire career. i look at his mediocre TS% as a clear manifestation of this. dude has to not take more than 2 of these 3-pointers a game while driving and getting to the line more. people don't want to admit it but melo's footwork as he tries to get to the basket is not good. jab step is not footwork. taking two "power dribbles" and trying to finish is not footwork either. and i am not talking about back to the basket post stuff either, which frankly he is not bad at. it's the stuff we see with him going iso from 22 feet where his footwork leaves a lot to be desired. still i admit i am pleased somewhat with his first three games but everything i see with him and this team is through a filter in the form of the question "does melo and does this team play like an ECF team?""

dk7th what are cautious about?

"1) the age of the team and the length of the season as driving up the odds of injury
2) regression into bad habits that have characterized the games of felton, smith, and melo in the past
up until last night's game i was not all that smitten with the team, and there is a loooong way to go yet. but to beat a full-strength spurs squad the way they did-- ie not THAT they won but HOW they won-- is definitely a positive litmus test.
like tkf said they have to earn my fandom and last night's game went a ways in that direction.
one more thing-- playing in the playoffs means teams will have time to game plan and adjust much more than during the regular season. so a sign of a good team other than great defense is its versatility and unpredictability. if we keep winning in this way that will be a very good sign for future success."

I just stated earlier that u said it in this tread on page 2...I pointed it out a few times but u seem to be ignoring it...Again, scroll back a few conversations and I have your direct quote or u could look at the bottom of page two of this tread...Or u could ignore this reply too...

I haven't followed this discussion very closely but it looks like you switched years. First you were claiming he had predicted 7th seed last season but as evidence for that claim you're citing the fact that he thinks 7th seed is possible this season.

bonn-- holfresh resurrected this thread that was started a year ago. he is referring to the following post i wrote:

"doesn't matter what the record is. it's the top 3 seeds that matter. are they a top 3 seed in the east?
new york is going to have to get a higher seeding than any of the top 3 seeds from last year--
Miami
Boston
Indiana
This is plausible but not likely.
Philadelphia
New Jersey
Chicago
Question marks as big the Knicks but no doubt in the running.
I don't see any other team that really matters here.
Conclusion is that the Knicks are anywhere between a 3rd and a 7th seed, 3rd if you're an outright optimist."

from this he and other posters claim that i predicted a 7th seed. well, did i? and did they play like a top 3 seed when the playoffs arrived? or did they play closer to the level of a 6-7 seed?

other notes: had rondo not gotten hurt, the celtics would have been a top 3 seed. can't predict injury.

And if Amare, Shumpert, Melo, Kidd, Felton, Sheed, Camby, and Chandler didn't hurt then what ??

if sheed and kidd remained healthy the knicks would have been very strong, and could have mopped the floor with a rondo-less celtic squad. then again what if rondo had not gotten hurt? that would have been a tough matchup but then i think the knicks end up a 4th seed, right? and then they face the nets... and beat them handily. third seed they crush the hawks if sheed and kidd remain healthy.

pacers also would have a hard time dealing with wallace, and kidd would have helped keep the ball moving ahead of their defenders. only issue would have been hibbert-- that is a huge issue-- but it is hard to imagine vogel figuring out how to stop the knicks otherwise. if camby and sheed remain healthy then chandler is not overworked and is likely healthy which would have been huge. felton and amare... don't know, since amare and melo cannot coexist, and felton is basically a zero-sum player as a starter. then again vogel may have been able to rise to the challenge. as it is, with woodson and his rinky-dink approach, vogel may well have been able to figure things out.

if the knicks faced the celtics somehow in round two with rondo-- that would have been tougher. bradley rondo bass garnett pierce green are all playoff-type performers. sullinger is not bad either.

miami-- with sheed and kidd i think i actually like the knicks chances but the greatness of lebron is nothing to sneeze at, and their coach is great.

in fact vogel, rivers, spoelstra are all better coaches than woodson. in the playoffs mr. russell has been quoted as saying it is about defense and matchups. i humbly add that coaching has bearing on these factors, and woodson is not up to par with these other coaches.

holfresh wrote:Boston had 21-23 record when Rondo tore his ACL..They were the eight seed in the conference at the time..Maybe u were predicting a big run for them??..Your prediction track record ain't that good..

ehhh my prediction record is just fine, it's your interpretation of it that is lousy and agenda-driven. no matter-- the celts are/were slow starters and sandbaggers. veteran teams are doing that nowadays, much to that douche stern's chagrin. they don't give a **** about the regular season. they are content to get to the playoffs where they know they can turn it up.

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43156&page=2

while searching-- in vain-- for the smoking gun of my 7th seed prediction, here is some good material i gleaned from early in the season last year:

"sorry but unless melo cuts back on the ill-advised shots-- i counted at least 4 or 5 last night-- it's going to be tough for the knicks to excel beyond the first round. the flipside of the ill-advised shots: passing out of converging doubles. he did it a few times but you just knew he could not sustain that focus and poise-- his habit is to get shot happy and that isn't going to fly. 7-16 but 1-6 from 3 = shot happy. good news is he is finally defending with some heart and he seems to be finishing at the rim better than i remember him ever as a knickerbocker. here is a key stat: 54.4% true shooting through 3 games. this is below average for a great scorer. it needs to be a whole lot closer to 60% if he is going truly help the team win in the playoffs. PLAYOFFS"

"on defense you're preaching to the choir. don't have much patience for the +/- stat to be honest. what's it good for? no doubt the way melo handles himself on defense has a trickle-down effect-- that is one mark of a leader... how he plays defense and makes hustle plays.
but you can't at the same time tell me that bad shot selection doesn't also have a trickle-down effect. eventually poor shots undermine cohesion and focus. we are looking at three games at the beginning of the season, not 3 games against a second round playoff team.
all of our focus on this team should be informed by how well they look as a strong second-round playoff team."

"i see the same frustrating pattern and i don't see lazy, i see a lack of poise, patience, and craftiness. he gets all jacked up-- the broadcasters called them "adrenaline shots"-- with his short-term success and decides to throw his game and the game out the window.
but look we can all agree that he's attacking and finishing better, he is playing some honest defense, and he is making hustle plays... so i give him credit for that. but come playoff time he has got to cut down completely on the adrenaline shots and be prepared to pass out of whatever double teams come his way and every time. dirk did it and look what happened. no question his shot selection has been his achilles heel, among other things, his entire career. i look at his mediocre TS% as a clear manifestation of this. dude has to not take more than 2 of these 3-pointers a game while driving and getting to the line more. people don't want to admit it but melo's footwork as he tries to get to the basket is not good. jab step is not footwork. taking two "power dribbles" and trying to finish is not footwork either. and i am not talking about back to the basket post stuff either, which frankly he is not bad at. it's the stuff we see with him going iso from 22 feet where his footwork leaves a lot to be desired. still i admit i am pleased somewhat with his first three games but everything i see with him and this team is through a filter in the form of the question "does melo and does this team play like an ECF team?""

dk7th what are cautious about?

"1) the age of the team and the length of the season as driving up the odds of injury
2) regression into bad habits that have characterized the games of felton, smith, and melo in the past
up until last night's game i was not all that smitten with the team, and there is a loooong way to go yet. but to beat a full-strength spurs squad the way they did-- ie not THAT they won but HOW they won-- is definitely a positive litmus test.
like tkf said they have to earn my fandom and last night's game went a ways in that direction.
one more thing-- playing in the playoffs means teams will have time to game plan and adjust much more than during the regular season. so a sign of a good team other than great defense is its versatility and unpredictability. if we keep winning in this way that will be a very good sign for future success."

I just stated earlier that u said it in this tread on page 2...I pointed it out a few times but u seem to be ignoring it...Again, scroll back a few conversations and I have your direct quote or u could look at the bottom of page two of this tread...Or u could ignore this reply too...

I haven't followed this discussion very closely but it looks like you switched years. First you were claiming he had predicted 7th seed last season but as evidence for that claim you're citing the fact that he thinks 7th seed is possible this season.

bonn-- holfresh resurrected this thread that was started a year ago. he is referring to the following post i wrote:

"doesn't matter what the record is. it's the top 3 seeds that matter. are they a top 3 seed in the east?
new york is going to have to get a higher seeding than any of the top 3 seeds from last year--
Miami
Boston
Indiana
This is plausible but not likely.
Philadelphia
New Jersey
Chicago
Question marks as big the Knicks but no doubt in the running.
I don't see any other team that really matters here.
Conclusion is that the Knicks are anywhere between a 3rd and a 7th seed, 3rd if you're an outright optimist."

from this he and other posters claim that i predicted a 7th seed. well, did i? and did they play like a top 3 seed when the playoffs arrived? or did they play closer to the level of a 6-7 seed?

other notes: had rondo not gotten hurt, the celtics would have been a top 3 seed. can't predict injury.

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43156&page=2

while searching-- in vain-- for the smoking gun of my 7th seed prediction, here is some good material i gleaned from early in the season last year:

"sorry but unless melo cuts back on the ill-advised shots-- i counted at least 4 or 5 last night-- it's going to be tough for the knicks to excel beyond the first round. the flipside of the ill-advised shots: passing out of converging doubles. he did it a few times but you just knew he could not sustain that focus and poise-- his habit is to get shot happy and that isn't going to fly. 7-16 but 1-6 from 3 = shot happy. good news is he is finally defending with some heart and he seems to be finishing at the rim better than i remember him ever as a knickerbocker. here is a key stat: 54.4% true shooting through 3 games. this is below average for a great scorer. it needs to be a whole lot closer to 60% if he is going truly help the team win in the playoffs. PLAYOFFS"

"on defense you're preaching to the choir. don't have much patience for the +/- stat to be honest. what's it good for? no doubt the way melo handles himself on defense has a trickle-down effect-- that is one mark of a leader... how he plays defense and makes hustle plays.
but you can't at the same time tell me that bad shot selection doesn't also have a trickle-down effect. eventually poor shots undermine cohesion and focus. we are looking at three games at the beginning of the season, not 3 games against a second round playoff team.
all of our focus on this team should be informed by how well they look as a strong second-round playoff team."

"i see the same frustrating pattern and i don't see lazy, i see a lack of poise, patience, and craftiness. he gets all jacked up-- the broadcasters called them "adrenaline shots"-- with his short-term success and decides to throw his game and the game out the window.
but look we can all agree that he's attacking and finishing better, he is playing some honest defense, and he is making hustle plays... so i give him credit for that. but come playoff time he has got to cut down completely on the adrenaline shots and be prepared to pass out of whatever double teams come his way and every time. dirk did it and look what happened. no question his shot selection has been his achilles heel, among other things, his entire career. i look at his mediocre TS% as a clear manifestation of this. dude has to not take more than 2 of these 3-pointers a game while driving and getting to the line more. people don't want to admit it but melo's footwork as he tries to get to the basket is not good. jab step is not footwork. taking two "power dribbles" and trying to finish is not footwork either. and i am not talking about back to the basket post stuff either, which frankly he is not bad at. it's the stuff we see with him going iso from 22 feet where his footwork leaves a lot to be desired. still i admit i am pleased somewhat with his first three games but everything i see with him and this team is through a filter in the form of the question "does melo and does this team play like an ECF team?""

dk7th what are cautious about?

"1) the age of the team and the length of the season as driving up the odds of injury
2) regression into bad habits that have characterized the games of felton, smith, and melo in the past
up until last night's game i was not all that smitten with the team, and there is a loooong way to go yet. but to beat a full-strength spurs squad the way they did-- ie not THAT they won but HOW they won-- is definitely a positive litmus test.
like tkf said they have to earn my fandom and last night's game went a ways in that direction.
one more thing-- playing in the playoffs means teams will have time to game plan and adjust much more than during the regular season. so a sign of a good team other than great defense is its versatility and unpredictability. if we keep winning in this way that will be a very good sign for future success."

I just stated earlier that u said it in this tread on page 2...I pointed it out a few times but u seem to be ignoring it...Again, scroll back a few conversations and I have your direct quote or u could look at the bottom of page two of this tread...Or u could ignore this reply too...

I haven't followed this discussion very closely but it looks like you switched years. First you were claiming he had predicted 7th seed last season but as evidence for that claim you're citing the fact that he thinks 7th seed is possible this season.

bonn-- holfresh resurrected this thread that was started a year ago. he is referring to the following post i wrote:

"doesn't matter what the record is. it's the top 3 seeds that matter. are they a top 3 seed in the east?
new york is going to have to get a higher seeding than any of the top 3 seeds from last year--
Miami
Boston
Indiana
This is plausible but not likely.
Philadelphia
New Jersey
Chicago
Question marks as big the Knicks but no doubt in the running.
I don't see any other team that really matters here.
Conclusion is that the Knicks are anywhere between a 3rd and a 7th seed, 3rd if you're an outright optimist."

from this he and other posters claim that i predicted a 7th seed. well, did i? and did they play like a top 3 seed when the playoffs arrived? or did they play closer to the level of a 6-7 seed?

other notes: had rondo not gotten hurt, the celtics would have been a top 3 seed. can't predict injury.

I see. I didn't realize this thread was a year old.
You said 3rd to 7th seed and they're pretending you predicted 7th seed? WTF?
That's like if I say the Knicks will win anywhere from 0 to 82 games, them then saying I predicted the Knicks would win 0 games.

Well to clarify what our discussion at the end of the playoffs centered around...If dk7 thought at the beginning of last season u have to be a raging optimist to think the Knicks would come in as the 3rd seed and he thought it was a distinct possibility for the Knicks to be the 7th seed...Why the phony outrage when the Knicks didn't reach the ECF???..He claims the he was pissed and that the team underachieved...He wanted heads rolled...Does this not come across as disingenuous???..

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43156&page=2

while searching-- in vain-- for the smoking gun of my 7th seed prediction, here is some good material i gleaned from early in the season last year:

"sorry but unless melo cuts back on the ill-advised shots-- i counted at least 4 or 5 last night-- it's going to be tough for the knicks to excel beyond the first round. the flipside of the ill-advised shots: passing out of converging doubles. he did it a few times but you just knew he could not sustain that focus and poise-- his habit is to get shot happy and that isn't going to fly. 7-16 but 1-6 from 3 = shot happy. good news is he is finally defending with some heart and he seems to be finishing at the rim better than i remember him ever as a knickerbocker. here is a key stat: 54.4% true shooting through 3 games. this is below average for a great scorer. it needs to be a whole lot closer to 60% if he is going truly help the team win in the playoffs. PLAYOFFS"

"on defense you're preaching to the choir. don't have much patience for the +/- stat to be honest. what's it good for? no doubt the way melo handles himself on defense has a trickle-down effect-- that is one mark of a leader... how he plays defense and makes hustle plays.
but you can't at the same time tell me that bad shot selection doesn't also have a trickle-down effect. eventually poor shots undermine cohesion and focus. we are looking at three games at the beginning of the season, not 3 games against a second round playoff team.
all of our focus on this team should be informed by how well they look as a strong second-round playoff team."

"i see the same frustrating pattern and i don't see lazy, i see a lack of poise, patience, and craftiness. he gets all jacked up-- the broadcasters called them "adrenaline shots"-- with his short-term success and decides to throw his game and the game out the window.
but look we can all agree that he's attacking and finishing better, he is playing some honest defense, and he is making hustle plays... so i give him credit for that. but come playoff time he has got to cut down completely on the adrenaline shots and be prepared to pass out of whatever double teams come his way and every time. dirk did it and look what happened. no question his shot selection has been his achilles heel, among other things, his entire career. i look at his mediocre TS% as a clear manifestation of this. dude has to not take more than 2 of these 3-pointers a game while driving and getting to the line more. people don't want to admit it but melo's footwork as he tries to get to the basket is not good. jab step is not footwork. taking two "power dribbles" and trying to finish is not footwork either. and i am not talking about back to the basket post stuff either, which frankly he is not bad at. it's the stuff we see with him going iso from 22 feet where his footwork leaves a lot to be desired. still i admit i am pleased somewhat with his first three games but everything i see with him and this team is through a filter in the form of the question "does melo and does this team play like an ECF team?""

dk7th what are cautious about?

"1) the age of the team and the length of the season as driving up the odds of injury
2) regression into bad habits that have characterized the games of felton, smith, and melo in the past
up until last night's game i was not all that smitten with the team, and there is a loooong way to go yet. but to beat a full-strength spurs squad the way they did-- ie not THAT they won but HOW they won-- is definitely a positive litmus test.
like tkf said they have to earn my fandom and last night's game went a ways in that direction.
one more thing-- playing in the playoffs means teams will have time to game plan and adjust much more than during the regular season. so a sign of a good team other than great defense is its versatility and unpredictability. if we keep winning in this way that will be a very good sign for future success."

I just stated earlier that u said it in this tread on page 2...I pointed it out a few times but u seem to be ignoring it...Again, scroll back a few conversations and I have your direct quote or u could look at the bottom of page two of this tread...Or u could ignore this reply too...

I haven't followed this discussion very closely but it looks like you switched years. First you were claiming he had predicted 7th seed last season but as evidence for that claim you're citing the fact that he thinks 7th seed is possible this season.

bonn-- holfresh resurrected this thread that was started a year ago. he is referring to the following post i wrote:

"doesn't matter what the record is. it's the top 3 seeds that matter. are they a top 3 seed in the east?
new york is going to have to get a higher seeding than any of the top 3 seeds from last year--
Miami
Boston
Indiana
This is plausible but not likely.
Philadelphia
New Jersey
Chicago
Question marks as big the Knicks but no doubt in the running.
I don't see any other team that really matters here.
Conclusion is that the Knicks are anywhere between a 3rd and a 7th seed, 3rd if you're an outright optimist."

from this he and other posters claim that i predicted a 7th seed. well, did i? and did they play like a top 3 seed when the playoffs arrived? or did they play closer to the level of a 6-7 seed?

other notes: had rondo not gotten hurt, the celtics would have been a top 3 seed. can't predict injury.

I see. I didn't realize this thread was a year old.
You said 3rd to 7th seed and they're pretending you predicted 7th seed? WTF?
That's like if I say the Knicks will win anywhere from 0 to 82 games, them then saying I predicted the Knicks would win 0 games.

Well to clarify what our discussion at the end of the playoffs centered around...If dk7 thought at the beginning of last season u have to be a raging optimist to think the Knicks would come in as the 3rd seed and he thought it was a distinct possibility for the Knicks to be the 7th seed...Why the phony outrage when the Knicks didn't reach the ECF???..He claims the he was pissed and that the team underachieved...He wanted heads rolled...Does this not come across as disingenuous???..

These predictions are phony. I don't care about having a strong opinion..but you know it's not an unbiased opinion when you take people like this and compare their reactions to outcomes that they say they "predicted". He should have been ecstatic with the way the season went if he thought they were a 7th seed, but you know he's a fake because he shat on them when they lost.

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43156&page=2

while searching-- in vain-- for the smoking gun of my 7th seed prediction, here is some good material i gleaned from early in the season last year:

"sorry but unless melo cuts back on the ill-advised shots-- i counted at least 4 or 5 last night-- it's going to be tough for the knicks to excel beyond the first round. the flipside of the ill-advised shots: passing out of converging doubles. he did it a few times but you just knew he could not sustain that focus and poise-- his habit is to get shot happy and that isn't going to fly. 7-16 but 1-6 from 3 = shot happy. good news is he is finally defending with some heart and he seems to be finishing at the rim better than i remember him ever as a knickerbocker. here is a key stat: 54.4% true shooting through 3 games. this is below average for a great scorer. it needs to be a whole lot closer to 60% if he is going truly help the team win in the playoffs. PLAYOFFS"

"on defense you're preaching to the choir. don't have much patience for the +/- stat to be honest. what's it good for? no doubt the way melo handles himself on defense has a trickle-down effect-- that is one mark of a leader... how he plays defense and makes hustle plays.
but you can't at the same time tell me that bad shot selection doesn't also have a trickle-down effect. eventually poor shots undermine cohesion and focus. we are looking at three games at the beginning of the season, not 3 games against a second round playoff team.
all of our focus on this team should be informed by how well they look as a strong second-round playoff team."

"i see the same frustrating pattern and i don't see lazy, i see a lack of poise, patience, and craftiness. he gets all jacked up-- the broadcasters called them "adrenaline shots"-- with his short-term success and decides to throw his game and the game out the window.
but look we can all agree that he's attacking and finishing better, he is playing some honest defense, and he is making hustle plays... so i give him credit for that. but come playoff time he has got to cut down completely on the adrenaline shots and be prepared to pass out of whatever double teams come his way and every time. dirk did it and look what happened. no question his shot selection has been his achilles heel, among other things, his entire career. i look at his mediocre TS% as a clear manifestation of this. dude has to not take more than 2 of these 3-pointers a game while driving and getting to the line more. people don't want to admit it but melo's footwork as he tries to get to the basket is not good. jab step is not footwork. taking two "power dribbles" and trying to finish is not footwork either. and i am not talking about back to the basket post stuff either, which frankly he is not bad at. it's the stuff we see with him going iso from 22 feet where his footwork leaves a lot to be desired. still i admit i am pleased somewhat with his first three games but everything i see with him and this team is through a filter in the form of the question "does melo and does this team play like an ECF team?""

dk7th what are cautious about?

"1) the age of the team and the length of the season as driving up the odds of injury
2) regression into bad habits that have characterized the games of felton, smith, and melo in the past
up until last night's game i was not all that smitten with the team, and there is a loooong way to go yet. but to beat a full-strength spurs squad the way they did-- ie not THAT they won but HOW they won-- is definitely a positive litmus test.
like tkf said they have to earn my fandom and last night's game went a ways in that direction.
one more thing-- playing in the playoffs means teams will have time to game plan and adjust much more than during the regular season. so a sign of a good team other than great defense is its versatility and unpredictability. if we keep winning in this way that will be a very good sign for future success."

I just stated earlier that u said it in this tread on page 2...I pointed it out a few times but u seem to be ignoring it...Again, scroll back a few conversations and I have your direct quote or u could look at the bottom of page two of this tread...Or u could ignore this reply too...

I haven't followed this discussion very closely but it looks like you switched years. First you were claiming he had predicted 7th seed last season but as evidence for that claim you're citing the fact that he thinks 7th seed is possible this season.

bonn-- holfresh resurrected this thread that was started a year ago. he is referring to the following post i wrote:

"doesn't matter what the record is. it's the top 3 seeds that matter. are they a top 3 seed in the east?
new york is going to have to get a higher seeding than any of the top 3 seeds from last year--
Miami
Boston
Indiana
This is plausible but not likely.
Philadelphia
New Jersey
Chicago
Question marks as big the Knicks but no doubt in the running.
I don't see any other team that really matters here.
Conclusion is that the Knicks are anywhere between a 3rd and a 7th seed, 3rd if you're an outright optimist."

from this he and other posters claim that i predicted a 7th seed. well, did i? and did they play like a top 3 seed when the playoffs arrived? or did they play closer to the level of a 6-7 seed?

other notes: had rondo not gotten hurt, the celtics would have been a top 3 seed. can't predict injury.

I see. I didn't realize this thread was a year old.
You said 3rd to 7th seed and they're pretending you predicted 7th seed? WTF?
That's like if I say the Knicks will win anywhere from 0 to 82 games, them then saying I predicted the Knicks would win 0 games.

He also said the Celts go 34-4 to catch the Knicks if Rondo was healthy after his late January injury when the Celts were 21-23.

WTF?!? where did i say that or are you just piling on with more after the whistle? i did say the celtics would have been in the top bracket but that was wrong, of course. still, what we are now arguing about is hypotheticals.

are you guys so desperate to play "gotcha" that you want to argue about hypotheticals? geezus

bottom line: some teams are better than their regular season records would indicate and other teams are worse than their regular season records would indicate. knicks were worse than their regular season record and it was proven to be so by the way they performed in the "real" season.

conclusion: i predicted a range of anywhere from 3-7, which they eclipsed. but in the real season they performed like a team that was closer to a 6th or 7th seed.

so simple!

Gsus wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:The elephant in the room is Amare..He can't play and his contract is killing our chances to add a player to compete at the next level..U can't ignore that...

you also can't ignore that melo could have played out his contract in denver and come here as a free agent. if denver tries to trade him to the nets then guess what the knicks continue to build and do an upgrade at a position of need: point guard. felton simply doesn't cut it. he's scrub material. no shame in that.

you really should re-read the posts i made in the thread you resurrected. they are quite prescient and insightful.

It was your call that the Knicks could finish 7th in the East, and that Felton would not help the Knicks, and u call this insightful???

so you are going back to this one? okay. if i said they were a 7th seed before the season started then okay fine that's what i said. then they ended up getting the second seed... only to get destroyed as though they were a 7th seed all along. so my pre-season prediction of 7th seed-- if i even made such a prediction-- proved correct where the rubber meets the road.

what i remember saying at some point in the second half of the season was that if they were not going to get it together they could easily slip to 7th seed because the standings at that juncture were so tight, like 2nd-7th were separated by only 3 games or so.

this season i predict 43-47 wins, unless they implode, in which case 37 wins is a distinct likelihood.

there is weak leadership, potential factions, and not enough cohesion or defense.

Here, have some.

They lost in 6 games to the 3rd seeded team that eventually took the eventual two time champs to the brink of elimination. They played solid D, had issues with rebounding and scoring, but didn't play zero defense, not hustle or try and get blown out by 20 points every game and get swept. That's what 7-8 seeded teams do. Ask the Bucks. Ask the Celtics too, for that matter, who were on the verge of getting swept had JR not derailed the team with his stupid elbow and suspension.

"Then they ended up getting the second seed... only to get destroyed as though they were a 7th seed all along. so my pre-season prediction of 7th seed-- if i even made such a prediction-- proved correct where the rubber meets the road." That's one of the most asinine things I've ever heard. If some sports analyst or journalist said or printed those words, he would be laughed at and have his ass kicked off the panel.

You're saying that they are going to win 43 games this year, knowing that you can very well be wrong, but you're going to pull out this strawman argument when they eventually lose in the playoffs by saying "see, they lost like a 8th seed, anyway...nanana na poo poo.

So I'm assuming in 2011 when the MVP led Bulls won a league leading 62 games, the division title, only to get blasted by the Heat, nearly getting swept, by the team that didn't even go on to win the championship either, they weren't really a 1 seed, right?

Nice try.

yes it's all about rose getting shut down by lebron james. cut off the head of the snake. the heat realized that rose, for all of his penetrating skills, was not an orchestrator. he left his feet all the time and could not maintain his dribble, not was he good at a midrange shooting game, where picks would have been useful.

he will learn, hopefully, but that year was premature.

TeamBall wrote:

jrodmc wrote:+1000000000000000000
Who is this masked man with the Nazarene name? Nice post. Let's see the Sombers redefine "sweep" and "azz kickin" again. Bring me that 1st ballot HOF Hibbert, and Frank "the new Red" Vogel. Indiana, the mecca of professional basketball.

Any team success and Melo = fools gold
Any team success and someone else = franchise building the "right way"

Cue the "How dare you put Melo and DRose in the same sentence" posts.

+10000

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43156&page=2

while searching-- in vain-- for the smoking gun of my 7th seed prediction, here is some good material i gleaned from early in the season last year:

"sorry but unless melo cuts back on the ill-advised shots-- i counted at least 4 or 5 last night-- it's going to be tough for the knicks to excel beyond the first round. the flipside of the ill-advised shots: passing out of converging doubles. he did it a few times but you just knew he could not sustain that focus and poise-- his habit is to get shot happy and that isn't going to fly. 7-16 but 1-6 from 3 = shot happy. good news is he is finally defending with some heart and he seems to be finishing at the rim better than i remember him ever as a knickerbocker. here is a key stat: 54.4% true shooting through 3 games. this is below average for a great scorer. it needs to be a whole lot closer to 60% if he is going truly help the team win in the playoffs. PLAYOFFS"

"on defense you're preaching to the choir. don't have much patience for the +/- stat to be honest. what's it good for? no doubt the way melo handles himself on defense has a trickle-down effect-- that is one mark of a leader... how he plays defense and makes hustle plays.
but you can't at the same time tell me that bad shot selection doesn't also have a trickle-down effect. eventually poor shots undermine cohesion and focus. we are looking at three games at the beginning of the season, not 3 games against a second round playoff team.
all of our focus on this team should be informed by how well they look as a strong second-round playoff team."

"i see the same frustrating pattern and i don't see lazy, i see a lack of poise, patience, and craftiness. he gets all jacked up-- the broadcasters called them "adrenaline shots"-- with his short-term success and decides to throw his game and the game out the window.
but look we can all agree that he's attacking and finishing better, he is playing some honest defense, and he is making hustle plays... so i give him credit for that. but come playoff time he has got to cut down completely on the adrenaline shots and be prepared to pass out of whatever double teams come his way and every time. dirk did it and look what happened. no question his shot selection has been his achilles heel, among other things, his entire career. i look at his mediocre TS% as a clear manifestation of this. dude has to not take more than 2 of these 3-pointers a game while driving and getting to the line more. people don't want to admit it but melo's footwork as he tries to get to the basket is not good. jab step is not footwork. taking two "power dribbles" and trying to finish is not footwork either. and i am not talking about back to the basket post stuff either, which frankly he is not bad at. it's the stuff we see with him going iso from 22 feet where his footwork leaves a lot to be desired. still i admit i am pleased somewhat with his first three games but everything i see with him and this team is through a filter in the form of the question "does melo and does this team play like an ECF team?""

dk7th what are cautious about?

"1) the age of the team and the length of the season as driving up the odds of injury
2) regression into bad habits that have characterized the games of felton, smith, and melo in the past
up until last night's game i was not all that smitten with the team, and there is a loooong way to go yet. but to beat a full-strength spurs squad the way they did-- ie not THAT they won but HOW they won-- is definitely a positive litmus test.
like tkf said they have to earn my fandom and last night's game went a ways in that direction.
one more thing-- playing in the playoffs means teams will have time to game plan and adjust much more than during the regular season. so a sign of a good team other than great defense is its versatility and unpredictability. if we keep winning in this way that will be a very good sign for future success."

I just stated earlier that u said it in this tread on page 2...I pointed it out a few times but u seem to be ignoring it...Again, scroll back a few conversations and I have your direct quote or u could look at the bottom of page two of this tread...Or u could ignore this reply too...

I haven't followed this discussion very closely but it looks like you switched years. First you were claiming he had predicted 7th seed last season but as evidence for that claim you're citing the fact that he thinks 7th seed is possible this season.

bonn-- holfresh resurrected this thread that was started a year ago. he is referring to the following post i wrote:

"doesn't matter what the record is. it's the top 3 seeds that matter. are they a top 3 seed in the east?
new york is going to have to get a higher seeding than any of the top 3 seeds from last year--
Miami
Boston
Indiana
This is plausible but not likely.
Philadelphia
New Jersey
Chicago
Question marks as big the Knicks but no doubt in the running.
I don't see any other team that really matters here.
Conclusion is that the Knicks are anywhere between a 3rd and a 7th seed, 3rd if you're an outright optimist."

from this he and other posters claim that i predicted a 7th seed. well, did i? and did they play like a top 3 seed when the playoffs arrived? or did they play closer to the level of a 6-7 seed?

other notes: had rondo not gotten hurt, the celtics would have been a top 3 seed. can't predict injury.

I see. I didn't realize this thread was a year old.
You said 3rd to 7th seed and they're pretending you predicted 7th seed? WTF?
That's like if I say the Knicks will win anywhere from 0 to 82 games, them then saying I predicted the Knicks would win 0 games.

He also said the Celts go 34-4 to catch the Knicks if Rondo was healthy after his late January injury when the Celts were 21-23.

WTF?!? where did i say that or are you just piling on with more after the whistle? i did say the celtics would have been in the top bracket but that was wrong, of course. still, what we are now arguing about is hypotheticals.

are you guys so desperate to play "gotcha" that you want to argue about hypotheticals? geezus

bottom line: some teams are better than their regular season records would indicate and other teams are worse than their regular season records would indicate. knicks were worse than their regular season record and it was proven to be so by the way they performed in the "real" season.

conclusion: i predicted a range of anywhere from 3-7, which they eclipsed. but in the real season they performed like a team that was closer to a 6th or 7th seed.

so simple!

I am not piling on. The celts were 21-23 when rondo went out. They would need to go 34-4 to catch the Knicks from the point that you said they would have gotten the third seed. They would have had to go 29-9 to hit 50 wins and bump the nets down a seed. It was a ridiculous statement. The celtics record was better without rondo.

i said i was clearly wrong, that they would not have made the top half of the bracket. and your still arguing hypotheticals. the celtics elevate their play in the playoffs, rondo or no rondo. here is my inference from your statement: the celtics are a better playoff team without rondo. is that correct? talk about ridiculous statements.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43156&page=2

while searching-- in vain-- for the smoking gun of my 7th seed prediction, here is some good material i gleaned from early in the season last year:

"sorry but unless melo cuts back on the ill-advised shots-- i counted at least 4 or 5 last night-- it's going to be tough for the knicks to excel beyond the first round. the flipside of the ill-advised shots: passing out of converging doubles. he did it a few times but you just knew he could not sustain that focus and poise-- his habit is to get shot happy and that isn't going to fly. 7-16 but 1-6 from 3 = shot happy. good news is he is finally defending with some heart and he seems to be finishing at the rim better than i remember him ever as a knickerbocker. here is a key stat: 54.4% true shooting through 3 games. this is below average for a great scorer. it needs to be a whole lot closer to 60% if he is going truly help the team win in the playoffs. PLAYOFFS"

"on defense you're preaching to the choir. don't have much patience for the +/- stat to be honest. what's it good for? no doubt the way melo handles himself on defense has a trickle-down effect-- that is one mark of a leader... how he plays defense and makes hustle plays.
but you can't at the same time tell me that bad shot selection doesn't also have a trickle-down effect. eventually poor shots undermine cohesion and focus. we are looking at three games at the beginning of the season, not 3 games against a second round playoff team.
all of our focus on this team should be informed by how well they look as a strong second-round playoff team."

"i see the same frustrating pattern and i don't see lazy, i see a lack of poise, patience, and craftiness. he gets all jacked up-- the broadcasters called them "adrenaline shots"-- with his short-term success and decides to throw his game and the game out the window.
but look we can all agree that he's attacking and finishing better, he is playing some honest defense, and he is making hustle plays... so i give him credit for that. but come playoff time he has got to cut down completely on the adrenaline shots and be prepared to pass out of whatever double teams come his way and every time. dirk did it and look what happened. no question his shot selection has been his achilles heel, among other things, his entire career. i look at his mediocre TS% as a clear manifestation of this. dude has to not take more than 2 of these 3-pointers a game while driving and getting to the line more. people don't want to admit it but melo's footwork as he tries to get to the basket is not good. jab step is not footwork. taking two "power dribbles" and trying to finish is not footwork either. and i am not talking about back to the basket post stuff either, which frankly he is not bad at. it's the stuff we see with him going iso from 22 feet where his footwork leaves a lot to be desired. still i admit i am pleased somewhat with his first three games but everything i see with him and this team is through a filter in the form of the question "does melo and does this team play like an ECF team?""

dk7th what are cautious about?

"1) the age of the team and the length of the season as driving up the odds of injury
2) regression into bad habits that have characterized the games of felton, smith, and melo in the past
up until last night's game i was not all that smitten with the team, and there is a loooong way to go yet. but to beat a full-strength spurs squad the way they did-- ie not THAT they won but HOW they won-- is definitely a positive litmus test.
like tkf said they have to earn my fandom and last night's game went a ways in that direction.
one more thing-- playing in the playoffs means teams will have time to game plan and adjust much more than during the regular season. so a sign of a good team other than great defense is its versatility and unpredictability. if we keep winning in this way that will be a very good sign for future success."

I just stated earlier that u said it in this tread on page 2...I pointed it out a few times but u seem to be ignoring it...Again, scroll back a few conversations and I have your direct quote or u could look at the bottom of page two of this tread...Or u could ignore this reply too...

I haven't followed this discussion very closely but it looks like you switched years. First you were claiming he had predicted 7th seed last season but as evidence for that claim you're citing the fact that he thinks 7th seed is possible this season.

bonn-- holfresh resurrected this thread that was started a year ago. he is referring to the following post i wrote:

"doesn't matter what the record is. it's the top 3 seeds that matter. are they a top 3 seed in the east?
new york is going to have to get a higher seeding than any of the top 3 seeds from last year--
Miami
Boston
Indiana
This is plausible but not likely.
Philadelphia
New Jersey
Chicago
Question marks as big the Knicks but no doubt in the running.
I don't see any other team that really matters here.
Conclusion is that the Knicks are anywhere between a 3rd and a 7th seed, 3rd if you're an outright optimist."

from this he and other posters claim that i predicted a 7th seed. well, did i? and did they play like a top 3 seed when the playoffs arrived? or did they play closer to the level of a 6-7 seed?

other notes: had rondo not gotten hurt, the celtics would have been a top 3 seed. can't predict injury.

I see. I didn't realize this thread was a year old.
You said 3rd to 7th seed and they're pretending you predicted 7th seed? WTF?
That's like if I say the Knicks will win anywhere from 0 to 82 games, them then saying I predicted the Knicks would win 0 games.

He also said the Celts go 34-4 to catch the Knicks if Rondo was healthy after his late January injury when the Celts were 21-23.

WTF?!? where did i say that or are you just piling on with more after the whistle? i did say the celtics would have been in the top bracket but that was wrong, of course. still, what we are now arguing about is hypotheticals.

are you guys so desperate to play "gotcha" that you want to argue about hypotheticals? geezus

bottom line: some teams are better than their regular season records would indicate and other teams are worse than their regular season records would indicate. knicks were worse than their regular season record and it was proven to be so by the way they performed in the "real" season.

conclusion: i predicted a range of anywhere from 3-7, which they eclipsed. but in the real season they performed like a team that was closer to a 6th or 7th seed.

so simple!

I am not piling on. The celts were 21-23 when rondo went out. They would need to go 34-4 to catch the Knicks from the point that you said they would have gotten the third seed. They would have had to go 29-9 to hit 50 wins and bump the nets down a seed. It was a ridiculous statement. The celtics record was better without rondo.

i said i was clearly wrong, that they would not have made the top half of the bracket. and your still arguing hypotheticals. the celtics elevate their play in the playoffs, rondo or no rondo. here is my inference from your statement: the celtics are a better playoff team without rondo. is that correct? talk about ridiculous statements.

I missed where you said you were wrong. I saw where you said there was nothing wrong with your predictions. The point was there is a date when Rondo went out and the Celts were 21-23 and what you said was way off base. I am not sure where you got that the Celtics are better without rondo but there may have been a chemistry issue there. They did win at a much higher rate and everyone left at the end of the season.

there may well have been a chemistry issue there for the regular season... i honestly don't know. i do know that rondo is hard to get along with, from what i have read. but the upside would have been preserving the older players' legs for the playoffs. rondo is a playoff performer, as are garnett and pierce.

on a related note, the nets are going to make sure that garnett and pierce are fresh, and though i think they are capable of being a top 3 team, they may end up sandbagging to the lower half of the bracket.

their starting unit is impressive even without williams. even johnson looks like a different player, defying my expectations.