Bonn1997 wrote:Jrod: huh? When did I say Isiah came in here with a good reputation? I said every person who *did* come in here with a good reputation came out worse.

Sorry. Humbly withdraw objection.

Does that mean we both hate dislike think IT had a bad reputation?

That would make two things we agree on!

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The only time Woody actually starting playing more to his style was when we got to the playoffs, he had a few days off to practice and guys were getting more and more familiar..But thats when melo ball really unfolded...ppl want to say melo was playing selfish, but it was woody who said, were going to run more ISO's for amare and melo. especially melo..Now all of a sudden, melo a selfish player because everytime down court, the coach is calling his number..

With MDA, he wanted to run the offense through melo for sure, but instead of just going 1 on 5, he was suppose to look for his teamates first and if no ones open, then it's on him, just like a nash or Lin..

I remember distinctively right before the season started, MDA said (on more then one occasion) MELO should avg close to a triple double with his abilty to pass, shoot and rebound, and for one game this season he did just that..

Woody on the other hand wants to ISO melo to death, and when that fails, ppl want to say melo is selfish...SMH

here's another thing. There is a difference between Melo's style of play and Melo the person. Melo's style of play is selfish. The only player that thrives is Melo. Name one player who's stats have gotten better playing with Melo. He's a volume shooting ISO player with an average to low shooting %. He has streaks of play and scoring that are tantalizing and totally dominant, but its totally inconsistant and cant be relied on, unless your goal is first and out every year in the playoffs.

Maybe Melo the person is not selfish, but didnt he push for a trade so he could get his max extension before the season? Seeing as the guys who just won the title took pay cuts so the team could be good its another knock on Melo who cost the Knicks a max extension, 3 starters, a couple prospects and 2 first rounders to aquire.

Label it anyway you want, but Melo's style of play doesnt make teammates any better and he was thrilled to come to NY, so long as he's paid like the best player in the league, while the other guys who he craves to be in the same class with took a paycut the year before to make their super team.

Who in the NBA is selfish? Whats the pattern? His defenders of the faith make lots of excuses are short on examples.

What comes first in Melo's world? The team or Melo? Winning or Melo?

I really look for a team to have more success when a player is added. Point guards can improve guys Individual stats. The only small forward I can think of that would improve a teammates numbers is lbj. Maybe you could show the stat comparison evidence you keep referencing.

mrknickshot can go streaking down the quad yelling from the mountain tops "I told yoooooooouuuuuuuu soooooooo"

Haha - I already did that after MDA left and we went 18-6

Never disregard context my friend. Are the knicks better since we got Melo (record wise)? Did the knicks have a better record after we got MDA?

How was Melo in the post season? His usual?

How was Paul Pierce? Granger? Harden? How about Westbrook? Oh ... and those guys actually had teams to play with - YOU FUNNY!

Keep ignoring context - it really suits you.

FoeDiddy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:Yeah Game Set Match..that article says nothing but a writers opinion. CashMoney wins that debate with a wild idea to actually use facts and numbers. Mind boggling.

Reading is fundamental. You seem to have missed all of the quotes from Woody and players and I have more quotes saying the same things. Not much changed except finally Melo started to play harder and he and his teammates realized they needed to play harder. Same offense and same defense MDA had them playing, just more effort and sacrifice. You know the same things they were doing during Linsanity before Melo came back. The proof is right in front of your eyes but you won't look. You'd rather close your eyes and lie to yourself that somehow with no practice Woody just magically changed everything and that's why the team won those early games. Ignore the fact that the team had a heavy schedule with back to backs and the coach himself said he couldn't make any changes. The coach himself said he was at a loss to explain the sudden change in energy. It's OK keep deluding yourself and hearing what you want to hear and seeing what you want to see.

Isn't this Ironic.

And u continue to ignore he did change things from day one...Sub Patterns, In-Game coaching & In-Game Adjustments.

And in this world of being PC you think Woodson would answer that the change of energy was getting rid of the Bum Coach. How would he look saying something like that and being forthright.

How lame is this argument. SUB PATTERNS??? What in game coaching did he need to do when the team was blowing out opponents in that 7 game stretch? Come on man get real. Woody had next to NOTHING to do with why the team burst out of the gate with such high intensity. It was a combo of the well known fact that teams will often have a stretch of high effort following a coach change and the biggest difference came from the teams best player suddenly playing like his life depended on it. The change in effort by Melo was so stark that every media outlet reported on it. That should tell you something about how dramatic the change was.

Please stop insulting our intelligence with this idea that Woody did something so impactful in that 1st week that he was the main reason the team was playing so well. STOP! We've already established that the team didn't have time to change anything substantive and that the biggest change was the teams best player took the lead in the effort department rather than lead the team in doggin it and killing the teams previously high enthusiasm from the time before Melo came back. Woody didn't have an explanation because he knew he didn't do anything special. PURE AND SIMPLE!!!

I will add that i'm not saying that after this period Woody didn't do a great job with the team. I'm just saying that a good portion of this was not of his doing when MDA 1st left. He simply got a boost from Melo finally giving his best effort of the season.

nixluva wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:Yeah Game Set Match..that article says nothing but a writers opinion. CashMoney wins that debate with a wild idea to actually use facts and numbers. Mind boggling.

Reading is fundamental. You seem to have missed all of the quotes from Woody and players and I have more quotes saying the same things. Not much changed except finally Melo started to play harder and he and his teammates realized they needed to play harder. Same offense and same defense MDA had them playing, just more effort and sacrifice. You know the same things they were doing during Linsanity before Melo came back. The proof is right in front of your eyes but you won't look. You'd rather close your eyes and lie to yourself that somehow with no practice Woody just magically changed everything and that's why the team won those early games. Ignore the fact that the team had a heavy schedule with back to backs and the coach himself said he couldn't make any changes. The coach himself said he was at a loss to explain the sudden change in energy. It's OK keep deluding yourself and hearing what you want to hear and seeing what you want to see.

Isn't this Ironic.

And u continue to ignore he did change things from day one...Sub Patterns, In-Game coaching & In-Game Adjustments.

And in this world of being PC you think Woodson would answer that the change of energy was getting rid of the Bum Coach. How would he look saying something like that and being forthright.

How lame is this argument. SUB PATTERNS??? What in game coaching did he need to do when the team was blowing out opponents in that 7 game stretch? Come on man get real. Woody had next to NOTHING to do with why the team burst out of the gate with such high intensity. It was a combo of the well known fact that teams will often have a stretch of high effort following a coach change and the biggest difference came from the teams best player suddenly playing like his life depended on it. The change in effort by Melo was so stark that every media outlet reported on it. That should tell you something about how dramatic the change was.

Please stop insulting our intelligence with this idea that Woody did something so impactful in that 1st week that he was the main reason the team was playing so well. STOP! We've already established that the team didn't have time to change anything substantive and that the biggest change was the teams best player took the lead in the effort department rather than lead the team in doggin it and killing the teams previously high enthusiasm from the time before Melo came back. Woody didn't have an explanation because he knew he didn't do anything special. PURE AND SIMPLE!!!

I will add that i'm not saying that after this period Woody didn't do a great job with the team. I'm just saying that a good portion of this was not of his doing when MDA 1st left. He simply got a boost from Melo finally giving his best effort of the season.

Didn't Cash post how Melo's numbers declined during the initial winnstreak? The Knicks were in the midst of another long losing streak when mike resigned. They went on a great run for the final 24 games and saved the season.

nixluva wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:Yeah Game Set Match..that article says nothing but a writers opinion. CashMoney wins that debate with a wild idea to actually use facts and numbers. Mind boggling.

Reading is fundamental. You seem to have missed all of the quotes from Woody and players and I have more quotes saying the same things. Not much changed except finally Melo started to play harder and he and his teammates realized they needed to play harder. Same offense and same defense MDA had them playing, just more effort and sacrifice. You know the same things they were doing during Linsanity before Melo came back. The proof is right in front of your eyes but you won't look. You'd rather close your eyes and lie to yourself that somehow with no practice Woody just magically changed everything and that's why the team won those early games. Ignore the fact that the team had a heavy schedule with back to backs and the coach himself said he couldn't make any changes. The coach himself said he was at a loss to explain the sudden change in energy. It's OK keep deluding yourself and hearing what you want to hear and seeing what you want to see.

Isn't this Ironic.

And u continue to ignore he did change things from day one...Sub Patterns, In-Game coaching & In-Game Adjustments.

And in this world of being PC you think Woodson would answer that the change of energy was getting rid of the Bum Coach. How would he look saying something like that and being forthright.

How lame is this argument. SUB PATTERNS??? What in game coaching did he need to do when the team was blowing out opponents in that 7 game stretch? Come on man get real. Woody had next to NOTHING to do with why the team burst out of the gate with such high intensity. It was a combo of the well known fact that teams will often have a stretch of high effort following a coach change and the biggest difference came from the teams best player suddenly playing like his life depended on it. The change in effort by Melo was so stark that every media outlet reported on it. That should tell you something about how dramatic the change was.

Please stop insulting our intelligence with this idea that Woody did something so impactful in that 1st week that he was the main reason the team was playing so well. STOP! We've already established that the team didn't have time to change anything substantive and that the biggest change was the teams best player took the lead in the effort department rather than lead the team in doggin it and killing the teams previously high enthusiasm from the time before Melo came back. Woody didn't have an explanation because he knew he didn't do anything special. PURE AND SIMPLE!!!

I will add that i'm not saying that after this period Woody didn't do a great job with the team. I'm just saying that a good portion of this was not of his doing when MDA 1st left. He simply got a boost from Melo finally giving his best effort of the season.

The media? The same media that never EVER reported that Melo's offensive numbers were down? The same media that didn't report that Melo's rebounding numbers went down? The same media that didn't report that STAT was shooting almost 60& from the field? Media? We talking bout media?

So when did the BOOST end at what portion of the 18-6 do you give Woodson credit for?

What I find funny is that Melo carried the entire team come crunch time. He played his ass off and won player of the month without Lin and without STAT. With Baron Davis playing at 70% if we were lucky. Of course it's not give credit where credit is due! It comes back to "If Melo would have played that way all year he wouldn't have HAD to do that!"

nixluva wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

nixluva wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:Yeah Game Set Match..that article says nothing but a writers opinion. CashMoney wins that debate with a wild idea to actually use facts and numbers. Mind boggling.

Reading is fundamental. You seem to have missed all of the quotes from Woody and players and I have more quotes saying the same things. Not much changed except finally Melo started to play harder and he and his teammates realized they needed to play harder. Same offense and same defense MDA had them playing, just more effort and sacrifice. You know the same things they were doing during Linsanity before Melo came back. The proof is right in front of your eyes but you won't look. You'd rather close your eyes and lie to yourself that somehow with no practice Woody just magically changed everything and that's why the team won those early games. Ignore the fact that the team had a heavy schedule with back to backs and the coach himself said he couldn't make any changes. The coach himself said he was at a loss to explain the sudden change in energy. It's OK keep deluding yourself and hearing what you want to hear and seeing what you want to see.

Isn't this Ironic.

And u continue to ignore he did change things from day one...Sub Patterns, In-Game coaching & In-Game Adjustments.

And in this world of being PC you think Woodson would answer that the change of energy was getting rid of the Bum Coach. How would he look saying something like that and being forthright.

How lame is this argument. SUB PATTERNS??? What in game coaching did he need to do when the team was blowing out opponents in that 7 game stretch? Come on man get real. Woody had next to NOTHING to do with why the team burst out of the gate with such high intensity. It was a combo of the well known fact that teams will often have a stretch of high effort following a coach change and the biggest difference came from the teams best player suddenly playing like his life depended on it. The change in effort by Melo was so stark that every media outlet reported on it. That should tell you something about how dramatic the change was.

Please stop insulting our intelligence with this idea that Woody did something so impactful in that 1st week that he was the main reason the team was playing so well. STOP! We've already established that the team didn't have time to change anything substantive and that the biggest change was the teams best player took the lead in the effort department rather than lead the team in doggin it and killing the teams previously high enthusiasm from the time before Melo came back. Woody didn't have an explanation because he knew he didn't do anything special. PURE AND SIMPLE!!!

I will add that i'm not saying that after this period Woody didn't do a great job with the team. I'm just saying that a good portion of this was not of his doing when MDA 1st left. He simply got a boost from Melo finally giving his best effort of the season.

The media? The same media that never EVER reported that Melo's offensive numbers were down? The same media that didn't report that Melo's rebounding numbers went down? The same media that didn't report that STAT was shooting almost 60& from the field? Media? We talking bout media?

So when did the BOOST end at what portion of the 18-6 do you give Woodson credit for?

What I find funny is that Melo carried the entire team come crunch time. He played his ass off and won player of the month without Lin and without STAT. With Baron Davis playing at 70% if we were lucky. Of course it's not give credit where credit is due! It comes back to "If Melo would have played that way all year he wouldn't have HAD to do that!"

I don't understand what your point is about the Media. All I know is that it was blatantly obvious to EVERYONE that Melo was playing significantly harder the very day that MDA left. This had NOTHING to do with Woody and if you think it did then I don't know what to say about your sense of judgment.

Clearly the team went on an emotional high for 5 games and then they crashed like a kid on a sugar high, but they went on from there to play hard and Woody did a good job of managing the team. What next happened was Melo got hot for the 1st time all year. Starting on Mar 28th Melo shot for a high % and stayed high thru April. That basically saved not only the Knicks but Woody as well. If not for Melo getting insanely hot I don't think he'd be here as the head coach. Just look at how much Melo improved from what he had been doing all year to what he did in April. People want to get all crazy about Melo for what amounted to 15 great games at the end of the season. If he had continued to play like he was all year I doubt the team makes the playoffs and doubt Woody survives.

DATE	MIN	FGM-FGA	  FG%  3PM-3PA 3P%  FTM-FTA  FT%	REB AST	BLK STL	 PF TO	PTS
March	32.1	6.7-16.2  .415 0.9-3.3 .268 5.1-6.5 .782	6.3 3.0	0.5 1.3	3.0 2.3	19.4
April	36.9	11.3-22.8 .495 1.9-4.2 .460 5.4-6.7 .813	7.3 3.6	0.4 1.1	3.1 2.5	29.8

Let's also be real in that it's unlikely Melo could sustain such high %'s for an entire season based on his career so far. If he did that would be an MVP season and I think the team could win a title for sure.

Thought you've stated numerous time the 18 and 6 record was due to defense? now Woodson is lucky that Melo got hot at the right time?

nixluva wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

nixluva wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:Yeah Game Set Match..that article says nothing but a writers opinion. CashMoney wins that debate with a wild idea to actually use facts and numbers. Mind boggling.

Reading is fundamental. You seem to have missed all of the quotes from Woody and players and I have more quotes saying the same things. Not much changed except finally Melo started to play harder and he and his teammates realized they needed to play harder. Same offense and same defense MDA had them playing, just more effort and sacrifice. You know the same things they were doing during Linsanity before Melo came back. The proof is right in front of your eyes but you won't look. You'd rather close your eyes and lie to yourself that somehow with no practice Woody just magically changed everything and that's why the team won those early games. Ignore the fact that the team had a heavy schedule with back to backs and the coach himself said he couldn't make any changes. The coach himself said he was at a loss to explain the sudden change in energy. It's OK keep deluding yourself and hearing what you want to hear and seeing what you want to see.

Isn't this Ironic.

And u continue to ignore he did change things from day one...Sub Patterns, In-Game coaching & In-Game Adjustments.

And in this world of being PC you think Woodson would answer that the change of energy was getting rid of the Bum Coach. How would he look saying something like that and being forthright.

How lame is this argument. SUB PATTERNS??? What in game coaching did he need to do when the team was blowing out opponents in that 7 game stretch? Come on man get real. Woody had next to NOTHING to do with why the team burst out of the gate with such high intensity. It was a combo of the well known fact that teams will often have a stretch of high effort following a coach change and the biggest difference came from the teams best player suddenly playing like his life depended on it. The change in effort by Melo was so stark that every media outlet reported on it. That should tell you something about how dramatic the change was.

Please stop insulting our intelligence with this idea that Woody did something so impactful in that 1st week that he was the main reason the team was playing so well. STOP! We've already established that the team didn't have time to change anything substantive and that the biggest change was the teams best player took the lead in the effort department rather than lead the team in doggin it and killing the teams previously high enthusiasm from the time before Melo came back. Woody didn't have an explanation because he knew he didn't do anything special. PURE AND SIMPLE!!!

I will add that i'm not saying that after this period Woody didn't do a great job with the team. I'm just saying that a good portion of this was not of his doing when MDA 1st left. He simply got a boost from Melo finally giving his best effort of the season.

The media? The same media that never EVER reported that Melo's offensive numbers were down? The same media that didn't report that Melo's rebounding numbers went down? The same media that didn't report that STAT was shooting almost 60& from the field? Media? We talking bout media?

So when did the BOOST end at what portion of the 18-6 do you give Woodson credit for?

What I find funny is that Melo carried the entire team come crunch time. He played his ass off and won player of the month without Lin and without STAT. With Baron Davis playing at 70% if we were lucky. Of course it's not give credit where credit is due! It comes back to "If Melo would have played that way all year he wouldn't have HAD to do that!"

I don't understand what your point is about the Media. All I know is that it was blatantly obvious to EVERYONE that Melo was playing significantly harder the very day that MDA left. This had NOTHING to do with Woody and if you think it did then I don't know what to say about your sense of judgment.

Clearly the team went on an emotional high for 5 games and then they crashed like a kid on a sugar high, but they went on from there to play hard and Woody did a good job of managing the team. What next happened was Melo got hot for the 1st time all year. Starting on Mar 28th Melo shot for a high % and stayed high thru April. That basically saved not only the Knicks but Woody as well. If not for Melo getting insanely hot I don't think he'd be here as the head coach. Just look at how much Melo improved from what he had been doing all year to what he did in April. People want to get all crazy about Melo for what amounted to 15 great games at the end of the season. If he had continued to play like he was all year I doubt the team makes the playoffs and doubt Woody survives.

DATE	MIN	FGM-FGA	  FG%  3PM-3PA 3P%  FTM-FTA  FT%	REB AST	BLK STL	 PF TO	PTS
March	32.1	6.7-16.2  .415 0.9-3.3 .268 5.1-6.5 .782	6.3 3.0	0.5 1.3	3.0 2.3	19.4
April	36.9	11.3-22.8 .495 1.9-4.2 .460 5.4-6.7 .813	7.3 3.6	0.4 1.1	3.1 2.5	29.8

Let's also be real in that it's unlikely Melo could sustain such high %'s for an entire season based on his career so far. If he did that would be an MVP season and I think the team could win a title for sure.

Melo played harder but SO DID THE REST OF THE TEAM.
If not for Melo getting insanely hot? You do realize that as of 3/26 against the Bucks Melo was playing without STAT and without Lin. Since your so fond of the media perhaps you can think back to when everyone was saying it was crunch time for Melo. Time for him to step up or shut up. Can he carry the team without Lin and Stat. He steps up and delivers and the answer is then he should have been doing it all year. He wasn't injured he was hurt. Semantics.

Melo probably could sustain the FG percentage if he were playing the 4 spot for the season. You know from March 26th through April 14th when STAT came back from his injury. His last 3 games of the season he was back at SF and did not shoot nearly as well.

It's not OK to get crazy about what Melo did for 15 games yet people got all crazy for what Lin for 7. Talk about a double standard.

Otherwise Melo gnerally has been a me first kind of player. He's not a cancer that people like to make him out to be though. He rebounds reasonably and doesn't play good D. He's not a point forward. I doubt he really has the court vision to be a good ball distributor, so if you criticize him for that you don't really know what you're asking for.

The undying love is strawman argument. Melo has noones undying love. But there's reasonable criticism and foaming at the mouth, lord of the flies madness that you see on this board too.

fishmike wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:He stated Melo will never win anything, Melo only cares about Melo and he was jealous of Lin.

tell me one thing Melo has done in the NBA that says team and winning first, Melo 2nd. Most people are calling it like they see it. As for the winning part I hope that isnt the case.

Dude was dead set on getting traded and signing a max extension before the new CBA came out. One a side note the stars who just won the title all took paycuts to make the team better. Granted its rare but the precedent and bar have been set.

Knicks had max cap space. NOTHING was stopping Melo from coming here in the offseason and playing on a team that had Mosgov, Felton, Gallo, Stat, Fields, draft picks, la la la

It doesnt matter if its fair or not, but Melo's history is Melo comes first. None of this would matter if he won something but he has both NOT won and performed poorly in the postseason so there you go. People just dont get excited about having this guy jammed down their throats and any criticism being met with hater comments.

I still havent gotten a good answer from a single poster here. What has Melo done do deserve your undying love as a fan? Seems most are still waiting