fishmike wrote:I posted Amare's stats playing with Shaq. 21ppg on 56% shooting. Please explain how this was accomplished against the powerforwards of the WC. Please.

I can only speak for myself, but who is blaming Melo for anything? All Im talking about is Amare's value as a player, and when Amare and Melo are both healthy Amare is so far and clear the superior offensive player its not debateable. Its not, and never has been. Melo's FG% is league average. Amare's is among the elite scorers of our era or better.

LOLs

Fish Mike going off the deep end again..................don't drink so much dude.

I can see Amare having a bounce back year, I can also see him traded too.

Anji wrote:

fishmike wrote:I posted Amare's stats playing with Shaq. 21ppg on 56% shooting. Please explain how this was accomplished against the powerforwards of the WC. Please.

I can only speak for myself, but who is blaming Melo for anything? All Im talking about is Amare's value as a player, and when Amare and Melo are both healthy Amare is so far and clear the superior offensive player its not debateable. Its not, and never has been. Melo's FG% is league average. Amare's is among the elite scorers of our era or better.

LOLs

Fish Mike going off the deep end again..................don't drink so much dude.

I can see Amare having a bounce back year, I can also see him traded too.

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Regardless of the many who bash him STAT is one of the most efficient scorers in league history and he has been very consistent at it. You can't base much off last year or even after the Melo deal. Both situations presented serious changes to how he usually played and I think he'll adjust and get his game back on track.

You and Fish have made some reasonable comments about obstacles Stat has had in the past year and half. I have trouble buying the claim that we should just throw out that entire 1 1/2 year period of data when evaluating Amare though.

what is this good half a year? Dude played in 78 games and gave 25/8 and shot over 50% during those 78 games. HALF a season suggests some 30-40 game stretch. One bad year, last. No idea what your on about

Look at his game log. You're right that half a season is an exaggeration. He had a bad ending to the 2010-11 season (end of bad rebounding and no shot-blocking in March, bad overall play in April and playoffs). Then that continued all of last season.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Vmart wrote:No one is going to hand the championship to Amare he has to earn it. By that I mean bring it on defense and rebound better than an SF. I don't doubt Amare's ability to score he is very good at it. What I do doubt with Amare is his commitment to defense and rebounding. You can say you want a championship or whatever for that matter but what is he doing to get that championship. Commitment to defense is where it is at with Amare.

That's what I keep saying about Amare playing the "Garnet" role, but the Amare defenders want to focus on him returing to 25 pts and game and 54% FG. I don't care if Amare averages 17 pts a game, as long as he grabs 10 boards, gets close to 2 blocks and 1 steal a game, and doesn't let offensive players go by him like it's doorbusters on Black Friday. It's all about the little things, man forget about scoring you Amare apologists. Play D, box out, help off your man on drives, dive for loose balls, don't be a cardboard stiff out there. MOVE YOUR FUCKING FEET! The little things. Like David in Prometheus says, "Big Things Have Small Beginnings."

Amare apologists? Garnett? What are you talking about? Garnett plays his role because he's one of the leagues best defenders and always has been.

"Amare defenders want to focus on him returing to 25 pts and game and 54% FG."

Yes.. because teams with scorers that score at that rate are the elite teams that advance year after year in the playoffs. Thats why I want to see that return.

Lets say it all together now.... scoring at a higher FG% is better than a lower one. Do you understand that concept? Do you understand the value of a scorer that does so at a rate of over 50% Pretty obvious you dont.

What makes a winning team? When players are put in the roles that best suit their games. You have one of the elite frontcourt scores in the game and you want to take the ball out of his hands. It just doesnt make sense. You can throw around Amare apologist or Melo haters or any crap you want. This is fundamental basketball and the player's history on this roster suggests this.

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Vmart wrote:No one is going to hand the championship to Amare he has to earn it. By that I mean bring it on defense and rebound better than an SF. I don't doubt Amare's ability to score he is very good at it. What I do doubt with Amare is his commitment to defense and rebounding. You can say you want a championship or whatever for that matter but what is he doing to get that championship. Commitment to defense is where it is at with Amare.

That's what I keep saying about Amare playing the "Garnet" role, but the Amare defenders want to focus on him returing to 25 pts and game and 54% FG. I don't care if Amare averages 17 pts a game, as long as he grabs 10 boards, gets close to 2 blocks and 1 steal a game, and doesn't let offensive players go by him like it's doorbusters on Black Friday. It's all about the little things, man forget about scoring you Amare apologists. Play D, box out, help off your man on drives, dive for loose balls, don't be a cardboard stiff out there. MOVE YOUR FUCKING FEET! The little things. Like David in Prometheus says, "Big Things Have Small Beginnings."

if this is what you think you have no idea what wins games in the NBA. Im sorry man.

Amare apologists? Garnett? What are you talking about? Garnett plays his role because he's one of the leagues best defenders and always has been.

"Amare defenders want to focus on him returing to 25 pts and game and 54% FG."

Yes.. because teams with scorers that score at that rate are the elite teams that advance year after year in the playoffs. Thats why I want to see that return.

Lets say it all together now.... scoring at a higher FG% is better than a lower one. Do you understand that concept? Do you understand the value of a scorer that does so at a rate of over 50% Pretty obvious you dont.

What makes a winning team? When players are put in the roles that best suit their games. You have one of the elite frontcourt scores in the game and you want to take the ball out of his hands. It just doesnt make sense. You can throw around Amare apologist or Melo haters or any crap you want. This is fundamental basketball and the player's history on this roster suggests this.

Sorry to burst your bubble, Fishmike, but you if you don't know Defense wins Championships, then you don't know basketball. Nowitzki wasn't a great defender, slow of foot as they come, but he helped box his man out in Dallas Zone matchup scheme vs Miami. Bosh played the best defense I've ever seen him play in this recent Finals, and he and Amare are a pretty close comparison. When are you going to bring defense to the discussion with Amare? Never? Apologist.

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Vmart wrote:No one is going to hand the championship to Amare he has to earn it. By that I mean bring it on defense and rebound better than an SF. I don't doubt Amare's ability to score he is very good at it. What I do doubt with Amare is his commitment to defense and rebounding. You can say you want a championship or whatever for that matter but what is he doing to get that championship. Commitment to defense is where it is at with Amare.

That's what I keep saying about Amare playing the "Garnet" role, but the Amare defenders want to focus on him returing to 25 pts and game and 54% FG. I don't care if Amare averages 17 pts a game, as long as he grabs 10 boards, gets close to 2 blocks and 1 steal a game, and doesn't let offensive players go by him like it's doorbusters on Black Friday. It's all about the little things, man forget about scoring you Amare apologists. Play D, box out, help off your man on drives, dive for loose balls, don't be a cardboard stiff out there. MOVE YOUR FUCKING FEET! The little things. Like David in Prometheus says, "Big Things Have Small Beginnings."

if this is what you think you have no idea what wins games in the NBA. Im sorry man.

Amare apologists? Garnett? What are you talking about? Garnett plays his role because he's one of the leagues best defenders and always has been.

"Amare defenders want to focus on him returing to 25 pts and game and 54% FG."

Yes.. because teams with scorers that score at that rate are the elite teams that advance year after year in the playoffs. Thats why I want to see that return.

Lets say it all together now.... scoring at a higher FG% is better than a lower one. Do you understand that concept? Do you understand the value of a scorer that does so at a rate of over 50% Pretty obvious you dont.

What makes a winning team? When players are put in the roles that best suit their games. You have one of the elite frontcourt scores in the game and you want to take the ball out of his hands. It just doesnt make sense. You can throw around Amare apologist or Melo haters or any crap you want. This is fundamental basketball and the player's history on this roster suggests this.

I'm with you but would like to add I wish it was that easy to tell a guy to be the next KG. On top of why you said it would be nice for Amar'e to get 25 on 54%, I'd like to see him revert to prior form because that's the player he is when he's performing at his best. But, then again, it would be really nice if Amar'e would play like Dirk. We could use a stretch 4

KG is an MVP (2 time?). Before last year Amare was a top 10 player, but not an MVP caliber. Lets just call it like we see it shall we?

Its as simple as this: If you want to maximize the impact of this roster you feed Amare the ball. Having him play better D and doing the little things is great, for Knick opponents. Please.. If I am playing the Knicks PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE lets see Amare get 17 points and "do the little things." What a joke. Lets see the guy who dropped 25 on you.

Lets put this in perspective. Here are the players who have scored 20ppg on 50% shooting or greater:
2011 - Lebron, Aldridge, Blake Griffin, David Lee
2010 - Lebron, Amare, Dirk, Wade, Griffin, Dwight, Aldridge, Zach
2009 - Lebron, Amare, Bosh, David Lee
2008 - Chris Paul, Tony Parker
2007 - Amare, Boozer, Al Jefferson, Dwight
2006 - Dirk, Amare, Boozer, Brand, Duncan
2005 - Brand, Bosh, Marion, KG, Gasol
2004 - Amare, Shaq, KG, Brand
2003 - Duncan, Shaq
2002 - Shaq, Duncan, KG

Its been done 40 times in the last 10 years. In those 40 times only 3 of them came from players on losing teams (Lee x2 and Al Jefferson).

This type of scoring = winning basketball. The math should be that hard to digest

fishmike wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Vmart wrote:No one is going to hand the championship to Amare he has to earn it. By that I mean bring it on defense and rebound better than an SF. I don't doubt Amare's ability to score he is very good at it. What I do doubt with Amare is his commitment to defense and rebounding. You can say you want a championship or whatever for that matter but what is he doing to get that championship. Commitment to defense is where it is at with Amare.

That's what I keep saying about Amare playing the "Garnet" role, but the Amare defenders want to focus on him returing to 25 pts and game and 54% FG. I don't care if Amare averages 17 pts a game, as long as he grabs 10 boards, gets close to 2 blocks and 1 steal a game, and doesn't let offensive players go by him like it's doorbusters on Black Friday. It's all about the little things, man forget about scoring you Amare apologists. Play D, box out, help off your man on drives, dive for loose balls, don't be a cardboard stiff out there. MOVE YOUR FUCKING FEET! The little things. Like David in Prometheus says, "Big Things Have Small Beginnings."

if this is what you think you have no idea what wins games in the NBA. Im sorry man.

Amare apologists? Garnett? What are you talking about? Garnett plays his role because he's one of the leagues best defenders and always has been.

"Amare defenders want to focus on him returing to 25 pts and game and 54% FG."

Yes.. because teams with scorers that score at that rate are the elite teams that advance year after year in the playoffs. Thats why I want to see that return.

Lets say it all together now.... scoring at a higher FG% is better than a lower one. Do you understand that concept? Do you understand the value of a scorer that does so at a rate of over 50% Pretty obvious you dont.

What makes a winning team? When players are put in the roles that best suit their games. You have one of the elite frontcourt scores in the game and you want to take the ball out of his hands. It just doesnt make sense. You can throw around Amare apologist or Melo haters or any crap you want. This is fundamental basketball and the player's history on this roster suggests this.

I'm with you but would like to add I wish it was that easy to tell a guy to be the next KG. On top of why you said it would be nice for Amar'e to get 25 on 54%, I'd like to see him revert to prior form because that's the player he is when he's performing at his best. But, then again, it would be really nice if Amar'e would play like Dirk. We could use a stretch 4

2 years ago I think most of us were pretty suprised by the range of Amare's jumper. That is the thing that will expand his offense. Just like it did for Ewing. That will continue to get better. Another example is Kurt Thomas...

KG is an MVP (2 time?). Before last year Amare was a top 10 player, but not an MVP caliber. Lets just call it like we see it shall we?

Its as simple as this: If you want to maximize the impact of this roster you feed Amare the ball. Having him play better D and doing the little things is great, for Knick opponents. Please.. If I am playing the Knicks PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE lets see Amare get 17 points and "do the little things." What a joke. Lets see the guy who dropped 25 on you.

Lets put this in perspective. Here are the players who have scored 20ppg on 50% shooting or greater:
2011 - Lebron, Aldridge, Blake Griffin, David Lee
2010 - Lebron, Amare, Dirk, Wade, Griffin, Dwight, Aldridge, Zach
2009 - Lebron, Amare, Bosh, David Lee
2008 - Chris Paul, Tony Parker
2007 - Amare, Boozer, Al Jefferson, Dwight
2006 - Dirk, Amare, Boozer, Brand, Duncan
2005 - Brand, Bosh, Marion, KG, Gasol
2004 - Amare, Shaq, KG, Brand
2003 - Duncan, Shaq
2002 - Shaq, Duncan, KG

Its been done 40 times in the last 10 years. In those 40 times only 3 of them came from players on losing teams (Lee x2 and Al Jefferson).

This type of scoring = winning basketball. The math should be that hard to digest

I agree with you 100 percent. I was just trying to highlight the absurdity of saying that player X should be "the next KG" or "the next Dirk" or player Y should become "the next Duncan"

I mean, Amar'e hitting that three to beat Boston that left his hand after time expired so the Knicks didn't win is a great example of his range being far greater than anticipated. that shot came out of nowhere

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Vmart wrote:No one is going to hand the championship to Amare he has to earn it. By that I mean bring it on defense and rebound better than an SF. I don't doubt Amare's ability to score he is very good at it. What I do doubt with Amare is his commitment to defense and rebounding. You can say you want a championship or whatever for that matter but what is he doing to get that championship. Commitment to defense is where it is at with Amare.

That's what I keep saying about Amare playing the "Garnet" role, but the Amare defenders want to focus on him returing to 25 pts and game and 54% FG. I don't care if Amare averages 17 pts a game, as long as he grabs 10 boards, gets close to 2 blocks and 1 steal a game, and doesn't let offensive players go by him like it's doorbusters on Black Friday. It's all about the little things, man forget about scoring you Amare apologists. Play D, box out, help off your man on drives, dive for loose balls, don't be a cardboard stiff out there. MOVE YOUR FUCKING FEET! The little things. Like David in Prometheus says, "Big Things Have Small Beginnings."

if this is what you think you have no idea what wins games in the NBA. Im sorry man.

Amare apologists? Garnett? What are you talking about? Garnett plays his role because he's one of the leagues best defenders and always has been.

"Amare defenders want to focus on him returing to 25 pts and game and 54% FG."

Yes.. because teams with scorers that score at that rate are the elite teams that advance year after year in the playoffs. Thats why I want to see that return.

Lets say it all together now.... scoring at a higher FG% is better than a lower one. Do you understand that concept? Do you understand the value of a scorer that does so at a rate of over 50% Pretty obvious you dont.

What makes a winning team? When players are put in the roles that best suit their games. You have one of the elite frontcourt scores in the game and you want to take the ball out of his hands. It just doesnt make sense. You can throw around Amare apologist or Melo haters or any crap you want. This is fundamental basketball and the player's history on this roster suggests this.

I'm with you but would like to add I wish it was that easy to tell a guy to be the next KG. On top of why you said it would be nice for Amar'e to get 25 on 54%, I'd like to see him revert to prior form because that's the player he is when he's performing at his best. But, then again, it would be really nice if Amar'e would play like Dirk. We could use a stretch 4

2 years ago I think most of us were pretty suprised by the range of Amare's jumper. That is the thing that will expand his offense. Just like it did for Ewing. That will continue to get better. Another example is Kurt Thomas...

KG is an MVP (2 time?). Before last year Amare was a top 10 player, but not an MVP caliber. Lets just call it like we see it shall we?

Its as simple as this: If you want to maximize the impact of this roster you feed Amare the ball. Having him play better D and doing the little things is great, for Knick opponents. Please.. If I am playing the Knicks PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE lets see Amare get 17 points and "do the little things." What a joke. Lets see the guy who dropped 25 on you.

Lets put this in perspective. Here are the players who have scored 20ppg on 50% shooting or greater:
2011 - Lebron, Aldridge, Blake Griffin, David Lee
2010 - Lebron, Amare, Dirk, Wade, Griffin, Dwight, Aldridge, Zach
2009 - Lebron, Amare, Bosh, David Lee
2008 - Chris Paul, Tony Parker
2007 - Amare, Boozer, Al Jefferson, Dwight
2006 - Dirk, Amare, Boozer, Brand, Duncan
2005 - Brand, Bosh, Marion, KG, Gasol
2004 - Amare, Shaq, KG, Brand
2003 - Duncan, Shaq
2002 - Shaq, Duncan, KG

Its been done 40 times in the last 10 years. In those 40 times only 3 of them came from players on losing teams (Lee x2 and Al Jefferson).

This type of scoring = winning basketball. The math should be that hard to digest

I agree with you 100 percent. I was just trying to highlight the absurdity of saying that player X should be "the next KG" or "the next Dirk" or player Y should become "the next Duncan"

I mean, Amar'e hitting that three to beat Boston that left his hand after time expired so the Knicks didn't win is a great example of his range being far greater than anticipated. that shot came out of nowhere

Supreme forget about offense for a second. Amare is a terrific scorer. It's in his DNA. Focus on D.

ChuckBuck wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Vmart wrote:No one is going to hand the championship to Amare he has to earn it. By that I mean bring it on defense and rebound better than an SF. I don't doubt Amare's ability to score he is very good at it. What I do doubt with Amare is his commitment to defense and rebounding. You can say you want a championship or whatever for that matter but what is he doing to get that championship. Commitment to defense is where it is at with Amare.

That's what I keep saying about Amare playing the "Garnet" role, but the Amare defenders want to focus on him returing to 25 pts and game and 54% FG. I don't care if Amare averages 17 pts a game, as long as he grabs 10 boards, gets close to 2 blocks and 1 steal a game, and doesn't let offensive players go by him like it's doorbusters on Black Friday. It's all about the little things, man forget about scoring you Amare apologists. Play D, box out, help off your man on drives, dive for loose balls, don't be a cardboard stiff out there. MOVE YOUR FUCKING FEET! The little things. Like David in Prometheus says, "Big Things Have Small Beginnings."

if this is what you think you have no idea what wins games in the NBA. Im sorry man.

Amare apologists? Garnett? What are you talking about? Garnett plays his role because he's one of the leagues best defenders and always has been.

"Amare defenders want to focus on him returing to 25 pts and game and 54% FG."

Yes.. because teams with scorers that score at that rate are the elite teams that advance year after year in the playoffs. Thats why I want to see that return.

Lets say it all together now.... scoring at a higher FG% is better than a lower one. Do you understand that concept? Do you understand the value of a scorer that does so at a rate of over 50% Pretty obvious you dont.

What makes a winning team? When players are put in the roles that best suit their games. You have one of the elite frontcourt scores in the game and you want to take the ball out of his hands. It just doesnt make sense. You can throw around Amare apologist or Melo haters or any crap you want. This is fundamental basketball and the player's history on this roster suggests this.

I'm with you but would like to add I wish it was that easy to tell a guy to be the next KG. On top of why you said it would be nice for Amar'e to get 25 on 54%, I'd like to see him revert to prior form because that's the player he is when he's performing at his best. But, then again, it would be really nice if Amar'e would play like Dirk. We could use a stretch 4

2 years ago I think most of us were pretty suprised by the range of Amare's jumper. That is the thing that will expand his offense. Just like it did for Ewing. That will continue to get better. Another example is Kurt Thomas...

KG is an MVP (2 time?). Before last year Amare was a top 10 player, but not an MVP caliber. Lets just call it like we see it shall we?

Its as simple as this: If you want to maximize the impact of this roster you feed Amare the ball. Having him play better D and doing the little things is great, for Knick opponents. Please.. If I am playing the Knicks PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE lets see Amare get 17 points and "do the little things." What a joke. Lets see the guy who dropped 25 on you.

Lets put this in perspective. Here are the players who have scored 20ppg on 50% shooting or greater:
2011 - Lebron, Aldridge, Blake Griffin, David Lee
2010 - Lebron, Amare, Dirk, Wade, Griffin, Dwight, Aldridge, Zach
2009 - Lebron, Amare, Bosh, David Lee
2008 - Chris Paul, Tony Parker
2007 - Amare, Boozer, Al Jefferson, Dwight
2006 - Dirk, Amare, Boozer, Brand, Duncan
2005 - Brand, Bosh, Marion, KG, Gasol
2004 - Amare, Shaq, KG, Brand
2003 - Duncan, Shaq
2002 - Shaq, Duncan, KG

Its been done 40 times in the last 10 years. In those 40 times only 3 of them came from players on losing teams (Lee x2 and Al Jefferson).

This type of scoring = winning basketball. The math should be that hard to digest

I agree with you 100 percent. I was just trying to highlight the absurdity of saying that player X should be "the next KG" or "the next Dirk" or player Y should become "the next Duncan"

I mean, Amar'e hitting that three to beat Boston that left his hand after time expired so the Knicks didn't win is a great example of his range being far greater than anticipated. that shot came out of nowhere

Supreme forget about offense for a second. Amare is a terrific scorer. It's in his DNA. Focus on D.

fair enough... I'm with you on the premise that we need Amar'e's D and rebounding to be better. i would just phrase it differently because there's only one KG

I'd settle for Amar'e reinventing himself the way Larry Johnson reinvented himself. Timely offense and a pitbull on D