loweyecue wrote:Woodson's definitely improved the defense. I think our real test will be again great defensive teams that will hound Lin and try to lockdown on Melo. Can we get enough offense going to win those games? I don't think we can hold Miami to 70 pts for us to win on defense alone.

Talking about Woodson in defensive terms only, conveniently ignores the job he has done to structure the offense and mandate unselfish play. That includes Public Enemy Number 7 who was an amazingly efficient 9/15 last night, with 6 assists.

The league leader in 20= victories has 11. The Knicks have 7. The Knicks already have three games with a victory margin of 20+ under Woodson.

His record is 8-1.

You do the math.

misterearl wrote:Scoreboard

loweyecue wrote:Woodson's definitely improved the defense. I think our real test will be again great defensive teams that will hound Lin and try to lockdown on Melo. Can we get enough offense going to win those games? I don't think we can hold Miami to 70 pts for us to win on defense alone.

Talking about Woodson in defensive terms only, conveniently ignores the job he has done to structure the offense and mandate unselfish play. That includes Public Enemy Number 7 who was an amazingly efficient 9/15 last night, with 6 assists.

The league leader in 20= victories has 11. The Knicks have 7. The Knicks already have three games with a victory margin of 20+ under Woodson.

His record is 8-1.

You do the math.

Public enemy number 7? LOL. Going heavy on the drama as usual?
So far he seems to have geared the offense to rely heavily on Melo and STAT. They were both playing well so it has worked, but I don't see anything masterful in this. I would like to first see this offense against a hard nosed defensive team like Miami or Chi.

loweyecue wrote:

misterearl wrote:Scoreboard

loweyecue wrote:Woodson's definitely improved the defense. I think our real test will be again great defensive teams that will hound Lin and try to lockdown on Melo. Can we get enough offense going to win those games? I don't think we can hold Miami to 70 pts for us to win on defense alone.

Talking about Woodson in defensive terms only, conveniently ignores the job he has done to structure the offense and mandate unselfish play. That includes Public Enemy Number 7 who was an amazingly efficient 9/15 last night, with 6 assists.

The league leader in 20= victories has 11. The Knicks have 7. The Knicks already have three games with a victory margin of 20+ under Woodson.

His record is 8-1.

You do the math.

Public enemy number 7? LOL. Going heavy on the drama as usual?
So far he seems to have geared the offense to rely heavily on Melo and STAT. They were both playing well so it has worked, but I don't see anything masterful in this. I would like to first see this offense against a hard nosed defensive team like Miami or Chi.

Let's see. Knicks had 24 assists to 11 turnovers to a top 10 Defensive team in Orlando without their starting point guard and their 2nd leading scorer. HMMM...that's not masterful coaching at all, no sir, because the Knicks have just been taking care of the ball all season under D'Antoni, yup, you right!

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Melo can get reasonably healthy, I would expect his play to return to his career numbers. Any criticism of him based on this season alone is short-sighted. Any substantial praise of him based on the past 2 games is even more short-sighted though.

I agree with this. But it seemed people who were criticizing him were discarding his career before this season. This is a guy who is like 28yrs old and already has multiple seasons where he's scored over 28ppg. He's one of the transcendent scorers in the game when he's on and showing that he is a complete player - very good rebounding and a surprisingly good passer, too. And he's gotten to a Western Conference Finals, for all the talk of his playoff struggles. And 3 of his first round losses were to the eventual NBA champion, so some of his struggles have been a result of tough seeding.

YUP

I don't think that's true. This season may have put his critics over the edge but I don't think they ignored his career record. I know I haven't and Loweycue raises many issues about his career too.

Yes - the Kobe-like inefficient numbers.

ChuckBuck wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Melo can get reasonably healthy, I would expect his play to return to his career numbers. Any criticism of him based on this season alone is short-sighted. Any substantial praise of him based on the past 2 games is even more short-sighted though.

I agree with this. But it seemed people who were criticizing him were discarding his career before this season. This is a guy who is like 28yrs old and already has multiple seasons where he's scored over 28ppg. He's one of the transcendent scorers in the game when he's on and showing that he is a complete player - very good rebounding and a surprisingly good passer, too. And he's gotten to a Western Conference Finals, for all the talk of his playoff struggles. And 3 of his first round losses were to the eventual NBA champion, so some of his struggles have been a result of tough seeding.

YUP

I don't think that's true. This season may have put his critics over the edge but I don't think they ignored his career record. I know I haven't and Loweycue raises many issues about his career too.

Yes - the Kobe-like inefficient numbers.

Don't forget the whale blubber underneath his garter.

Yea just like Kobe, minus the focus, the leadership, the defense, the passing, the MVPs, the scoring titles and more importantly the five rings. Yea just like Kobe. LOL

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Melo can get reasonably healthy, I would expect his play to return to his career numbers. Any criticism of him based on this season alone is short-sighted. Any substantial praise of him based on the past 2 games is even more short-sighted though.

I agree with this. But it seemed people who were criticizing him were discarding his career before this season. This is a guy who is like 28yrs old and already has multiple seasons where he's scored over 28ppg. He's one of the transcendent scorers in the game when he's on and showing that he is a complete player - very good rebounding and a surprisingly good passer, too. And he's gotten to a Western Conference Finals, for all the talk of his playoff struggles. And 3 of his first round losses were to the eventual NBA champion, so some of his struggles have been a result of tough seeding.

YUP

I don't think that's true. This season may have put his critics over the edge but I don't think they ignored his career record. I know I haven't and Loweycue raises many issues about his career too.

I disagree with this because I remember his efficiency stats, based upon historical data, getting thrown all over the place both pre and post trade as a reason for why he's so overrated. Worst. stat. ever. Fails to account for how dynamic a player is, and Melo is the most dynamic player the Knicks have had in a loooooooooong time.

By the way, that wasn't necessarily directed at you but rather the majority fo this anti-Melo camp. And what also never gets mentioned is that he essentially just entered his prime. The best has yet to come

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Melo can get reasonably healthy, I would expect his play to return to his career numbers. Any criticism of him based on this season alone is short-sighted. Any substantial praise of him based on the past 2 games is even more short-sighted though.

I agree with this. But it seemed people who were criticizing him were discarding his career before this season. This is a guy who is like 28yrs old and already has multiple seasons where he's scored over 28ppg. He's one of the transcendent scorers in the game when he's on and showing that he is a complete player - very good rebounding and a surprisingly good passer, too. And he's gotten to a Western Conference Finals, for all the talk of his playoff struggles. And 3 of his first round losses were to the eventual NBA champion, so some of his struggles have been a result of tough seeding.

YUP

I don't think that's true. This season may have put his critics over the edge but I don't think they ignored his career record. I know I haven't and Loweycue raises many issues about his career too.

Yes - the Kobe-like inefficient numbers.

Don't forget the whale blubber underneath his garter.

Yea just like Kobe, minus the focus, the leadership, the defense, the passing, the MVPs, the scoring titles and more importantly the five rings. Yea just like Kobe. LOL

"the Kobe-like inefficient numbers"

Understand context before telling us what we know. LOL

Apparently not so much my friend, because anybody that truly knows will never compare in any way, shape or form, the best NBA player (Kobe) since Michael Jordan with someone who has never even make an all NBA first team (Melo).

Who's comparing "PLAYERS" - context my friend - context!

loweyecue wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

His career before this season has also shown him to be a volume a scorer, a ball hog and someone who can definitely score with the best of them but doesn't play hard on defense etc.

Now for the last two games he has been exactly what the team needs him to be, so kudos to him
for showing up and most importantly playing defense. While I am happy to see us blowing out playoff contenders and willing to forget the Raptors loss as a one game aberration this team has a long way to go and show they can ALL keep doing this at this level to earn any real respect. If they can hold up this level of play we can challenge the Bulls with or without Rose. But it still a pretty big "IF".

Exactly right.

SupremeCommander wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Melo can get reasonably healthy, I would expect his play to return to his career numbers. Any criticism of him based on this season alone is short-sighted. Any substantial praise of him based on the past 2 games is even more short-sighted though.

I agree with this. But it seemed people who were criticizing him were discarding his career before this season. This is a guy who is like 28yrs old and already has multiple seasons where he's scored over 28ppg. He's one of the transcendent scorers in the game when he's on and showing that he is a complete player - very good rebounding and a surprisingly good passer, too. And he's gotten to a Western Conference Finals, for all the talk of his playoff struggles. And 3 of his first round losses were to the eventual NBA champion, so some of his struggles have been a result of tough seeding.

YUP

People that were criticizing him (including me)were not short sighted or discarding his career. People were criticizing him because he was doggin it this year and because he wasn't leading by example. In other words, he was showing a complete lack of character, before MDA left. Plain and Simple.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Melo can get reasonably healthy, I would expect his play to return to his career numbers. Any criticism of him based on this season alone is short-sighted. Any substantial praise of him based on the past 2 games is even more short-sighted though.

I agree with this. But it seemed people who were criticizing him were discarding his career before this season. This is a guy who is like 28yrs old and already has multiple seasons where he's scored over 28ppg. He's one of the transcendent scorers in the game when he's on and showing that he is a complete player - very good rebounding and a surprisingly good passer, too. And he's gotten to a Western Conference Finals, for all the talk of his playoff struggles. And 3 of his first round losses were to the eventual NBA champion, so some of his struggles have been a result of tough seeding.

YUP

I don't think that's true. This season may have put his critics over the edge but I don't think they ignored his career record. I know I haven't and Loweycue raises many issues about his career too.

I disagree with this because I remember his efficiency stats, based upon historical data, getting thrown all over the place both pre and post trade as a reason for why he's so overrated. Worst. stat. ever. Fails to account for how dynamic a player is, and Melo is the most dynamic player the Knicks have had in a loooooooooong time.

By the way, that wasn't necessarily directed at you but rather the majority fo this anti-Melo camp. And what also never gets mentioned is that he essentially just entered his prime. The best has yet to come

I'd say best stat ever. What do you mean by "dynamic"? That's a pretty vague term.

Offense is actually much simpler than people make it out to be. A team is going to get about 85 shots per game. To have a good offense, you need to hit as high a percentage of them as possible. If one player is shooting inefficiently for 20 shots a game, your other players are going to have to be more efficient for the remaining 65 shots.

I think Melo can still be thought of as a great player by the end of his career.

And people who say Kobe won three rings before that are ignoring the fact that Shaq would have won three rings with Sprewell, Houston, Starks, Shumpert, me, Joe Bob, Bob Dole, Al Gore or Mike Tyson as his shooting guard from 2000 to 2002. Shaq was that good.

There is some legitimacy to the criticisms of Kobe for being inefficient. Poor shot selection is really the one thing that separates him from legends like Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. He's always been a more efficient passer than Melo, though.