misterearl wrote:The Will To Win

Mike Woodson is showing he is a better coach.

C'mon nixluva, it won't hurt you to admit it.

We saw MDA have success with this team minus Melo. Melo never gave MDA the effort that we see him giving now. If he had there's no way this team is struggling to lock up the 8th seed. This is really a dumb argument, since both coaches have had about the same level of success in the league, MDA perhaps a bit more, but overall MDA had to fight with his star player rather than that player basically doing his job and giving max effort from day one.

And I know some with say look at the defense but lets remember that this team defended better statistically all year when Melo wasn't playing. The same went for STAT, but with Melo it's clear he could easily have played harder all the time. He basically went from doggin it to bustin his hump in one afternoon. You can't say it was Woody's coaching when he hadn't even coached one practice before we saw a renewed Melo on defense!!!! Woody didn't even had a chance to make any changes in the D and the players admitted that it was mostly just effort. They gave that same effort during Linsanity when Melo wasn't playing. Things only got bad when he came back!!! So basically Melo didn't play for MDA. Maybe he didn't like his accent. Melo played for Woody without so much as a practice to work off of. It was too abrupt a turnaround for my taste. I don't want my teams best player acting like that.

We'd better all hope to God that Melo hasn't damaged the teams chances this year by his dogging it most of the year. We should be leading the Atlantic.

nixluva wrote:

misterearl wrote:The Will To Win

Mike Woodson is showing he is a better coach.

C'mon nixluva, it won't hurt you to admit it.

We saw MDA have success with this team minus Melo. Melo never gave MDA the effort that we see him giving now. If he had there's no way this team is struggling to lock up the 8th seed. This is really a dumb argument, since both coaches have had about the same level of success in the league, MDA perhaps a bit more, but overall MDA had to fight with his star player rather than that player basically doing his job and giving max effort from day one.

And I know some with say look at the defense but lets remember that this team defended better statistically all year when Melo wasn't playing. The same went for STAT, but with Melo it's clear he could easily have played harder all the time. He basically went from doggin it to bustin his hump in one afternoon. You can't say it was Woody's coaching when he hadn't even coached one practice before we saw a renewed Melo on defense!!!! Woody didn't even had a chance to make any changes in the D and the players admitted that it was mostly just effort. They gave that same effort during Linsanity when Melo wasn't playing. Things only got bad when he came back!!! So basically Melo didn't play for MDA. Maybe he didn't like his accent. Melo played for Woody without so much as a practice to work off of. It was too abrupt a turnaround for my taste. I don't want my teams best player acting like that.

We'd better all hope to God that Melo hasn't damaged the teams chances this year by his dogging it most of the year. We should be leading the Atlantic.

Could have sworn Woodson has been here from the beginning of year specifically to improve defense. As the assistant he can only guide..MDa still had final say hence the switch happy play in beginning of year. Knicks were decent on Defense pre-Woodson at head coach but they were not this good against even better competition. I don't think Melo was dogging it at all. I think he got mentally drained from the losses which he is not used to and was highly confused on what the direction of team was. Lets not act like Melo was the only one who looked lost out there for most the year.

MDA did not have success minus Melo..that team still underachieved and looked lost for a lot of that season minus a streak or two. People have a rosy picture of past. Everyone on this board was up in arms with the Gallo/Chandler/Felton/Amare Knicks on why they were so inconsistent and why they did some of the things they did. I remember plenty of those games where Amare would be hot and when crunch time came he wouldn't see the ball cause Felton/Gallo/Chandler were chucking 3s all over the place.

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

misterearl wrote:The Will To Win

Mike Woodson is showing he is a better coach.

C'mon nixluva, it won't hurt you to admit it.

We saw MDA have success with this team minus Melo. Melo never gave MDA the effort that we see him giving now. If he had there's no way this team is struggling to lock up the 8th seed. This is really a dumb argument, since both coaches have had about the same level of success in the league, MDA perhaps a bit more, but overall MDA had to fight with his star player rather than that player basically doing his job and giving max effort from day one.

And I know some with say look at the defense but lets remember that this team defended better statistically all year when Melo wasn't playing. The same went for STAT, but with Melo it's clear he could easily have played harder all the time. He basically went from doggin it to bustin his hump in one afternoon. You can't say it was Woody's coaching when he hadn't even coached one practice before we saw a renewed Melo on defense!!!! Woody didn't even had a chance to make any changes in the D and the players admitted that it was mostly just effort. They gave that same effort during Linsanity when Melo wasn't playing. Things only got bad when he came back!!! So basically Melo didn't play for MDA. Maybe he didn't like his accent. Melo played for Woody without so much as a practice to work off of. It was too abrupt a turnaround for my taste. I don't want my teams best player acting like that.

We'd better all hope to God that Melo hasn't damaged the teams chances this year by his dogging it most of the year. We should be leading the Atlantic.

You should direct that blame at D'Antoni. How many times have the whole Knicks team look like they just ate a whole Turkey at halftime to start 2nd halves?

i always do a better job when working for a boss who doesn't act like they are above me. Just made me feel better about the job and made me want to work harder. Not sure it's the case here, but I'm guessing that Woodson is a much better communicator then MDA was.

Rookie wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

misterearl wrote:The Will To Win

Mike Woodson is showing he is a better coach.

C'mon nixluva, it won't hurt you to admit it.

We saw MDA have success with this team minus Melo. Melo never gave MDA the effort that we see him giving now. If he had there's no way this team is struggling to lock up the 8th seed. This is really a dumb argument, since both coaches have had about the same level of success in the league, MDA perhaps a bit more, but overall MDA had to fight with his star player rather than that player basically doing his job and giving max effort from day one.

And I know some with say look at the defense but lets remember that this team defended better statistically all year when Melo wasn't playing. The same went for STAT, but with Melo it's clear he could easily have played harder all the time. He basically went from doggin it to bustin his hump in one afternoon. You can't say it was Woody's coaching when he hadn't even coached one practice before we saw a renewed Melo on defense!!!! Woody didn't even had a chance to make any changes in the D and the players admitted that it was mostly just effort. They gave that same effort during Linsanity when Melo wasn't playing. Things only got bad when he came back!!! So basically Melo didn't play for MDA. Maybe he didn't like his accent. Melo played for Woody without so much as a practice to work off of. It was too abrupt a turnaround for my taste. I don't want my teams best player acting like that.

We'd better all hope to God that Melo hasn't damaged the teams chances this year by his dogging it most of the year. We should be leading the Atlantic.

You should direct that blame at D'Antoni. How many times have the whole Knicks team look like they just ate a whole Turkey at halftime to start 2nd halves?

i always did a better job when working for a boss who didn't act like they were above me. Just made me feel better about the job and made me want to work harder. Not sure it's the case here, but I'm guessing that Woodson is a much better communicator then MDA was.

+1

This can be said for anyone who works in any environment.

Did Stat "Dog It" for MDA? He certainly did not play defense for him. Once Woodson took over, his defense looked stellar! That does not bold well for MDA.

It was not one guy who quit on MDA - HE LOST THE WHOLE TEAM!

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

misterearl wrote:The Will To Win

Mike Woodson is showing he is a better coach.

C'mon nixluva, it won't hurt you to admit it.

We saw MDA have success with this team minus Melo. Melo never gave MDA the effort that we see him giving now. If he had there's no way this team is struggling to lock up the 8th seed. This is really a dumb argument, since both coaches have had about the same level of success in the league, MDA perhaps a bit more, but overall MDA had to fight with his star player rather than that player basically doing his job and giving max effort from day one.

And I know some with say look at the defense but lets remember that this team defended better statistically all year when Melo wasn't playing. The same went for STAT, but with Melo it's clear he could easily have played harder all the time. He basically went from doggin it to bustin his hump in one afternoon. You can't say it was Woody's coaching when he hadn't even coached one practice before we saw a renewed Melo on defense!!!! Woody didn't even had a chance to make any changes in the D and the players admitted that it was mostly just effort. They gave that same effort during Linsanity when Melo wasn't playing. Things only got bad when he came back!!! So basically Melo didn't play for MDA. Maybe he didn't like his accent. Melo played for Woody without so much as a practice to work off of. It was too abrupt a turnaround for my taste. I don't want my teams best player acting like that.

We'd better all hope to God that Melo hasn't damaged the teams chances this year by his dogging it most of the year. We should be leading the Atlantic.

You should direct that blame at D'Antoni. How many times have the whole Knicks team look like they just ate a whole Turkey at halftime to start 2nd halves?

All you're doing is describing just what i'm talking about. it was often the bench that brought the team back after the Starters which included Melo and STAT stunk up the joint. Melo is a huge factor in all of this and it's backed up statistically. I've posted the facts many times over and it's stark. It's not just a slight difference it's a HUGE difference and it all leads to the idea that Melo wasn't playing hard as he himself stated. It's really not a good look for your star player hurt the team for no good reason. MDA had no problem with the team playing hard when Melo wasn't on the floor. The stats back that up.

Look in the end MDA doesn't matter. Only Melo and what he does matters. MDA can move on and coach somewhere else and repair his legacy. Melo MUST lead this team to win or he'll get all the blame. It's all him now. He's in the hot seat. The Ewing position. If he gets it done, he'll rightfully get the glory.

HugeKnick4 wrote:

misterearl wrote:The Will To Win

Mike Woodson is showing he is a better coach.

C'mon nixluva, it won't hurt you to admit it.

I gotta admit...I felt bad for MDA...and do place a large chunk of the reason for his failure on Melo; both Melo's actions and lack of actions and MDA's plain old pigheadedness with regard to Melo. That being said, Woodson does appear to be a better overall coach than MDA for this team, and perhaps in general. MDA's main issues were his supposed lack of focus on defense, inflexibility with regard to his system, terrible time out calling, wrong leadership style for Melo, and general aloofness during press conferences. Other than that I loved the guy.

Woody knows when to call time outs, is defense oriented, apparently has gained buy-in to approach, and is no-nonsense and straight to the point. I like his style and I hope he succeeds here.

+1000

Very fair post. Nice to see balanced blame.

ChuckBuck wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Rookie wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

misterearl wrote:The Will To Win

Mike Woodson is showing he is a better coach.

C'mon nixluva, it won't hurt you to admit it.

We saw MDA have success with this team minus Melo. Melo never gave MDA the effort that we see him giving now. If he had there's no way this team is struggling to lock up the 8th seed. This is really a dumb argument, since both coaches have had about the same level of success in the league, MDA perhaps a bit more, but overall MDA had to fight with his star player rather than that player basically doing his job and giving max effort from day one.

And I know some with say look at the defense but lets remember that this team defended better statistically all year when Melo wasn't playing. The same went for STAT, but with Melo it's clear he could easily have played harder all the time. He basically went from doggin it to bustin his hump in one afternoon. You can't say it was Woody's coaching when he hadn't even coached one practice before we saw a renewed Melo on defense!!!! Woody didn't even had a chance to make any changes in the D and the players admitted that it was mostly just effort. They gave that same effort during Linsanity when Melo wasn't playing. Things only got bad when he came back!!! So basically Melo didn't play for MDA. Maybe he didn't like his accent. Melo played for Woody without so much as a practice to work off of. It was too abrupt a turnaround for my taste. I don't want my teams best player acting like that.

We'd better all hope to God that Melo hasn't damaged the teams chances this year by his dogging it most of the year. We should be leading the Atlantic.

You should direct that blame at D'Antoni. How many times have the whole Knicks team look like they just ate a whole Turkey at halftime to start 2nd halves?

i always did a better job when working for a boss who didn't act like they were above me. Just made me feel better about the job and made me want to work harder. Not sure it's the case here, but I'm guessing that Woodson is a much better communicator then MDA was.

+1

This can be said for anyone who works in any environment.

Did Stat "Dog It" for MDA? He certainly did not play defense for him. Once Woodson took over, his defense looked stellar! That does not bold well for MDA.

It was not one guy who quit on MDA - HE LOST THE WHOLE TEAM!

That's what I don't get. It wasn't just Melo, it was the ENTIRE team that tuned MDA out. His system and focus on offense wasn't working and they stopped buying into his gimmicky approach to basketball. It's like the style over substance argument. D'Antoni would rather lose a nailbiter as long as his team hit 10+ threes, shot 50% from the field, and had a 2 to 1 assist/TO ratio. Woodson would just rather gut out an ugly ISO heavy slugfest no matter what the percentages.

Do you remember any championship team that did rely heavily on ISO? I don't.

mrKnickShot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Rookie wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

misterearl wrote:The Will To Win

Mike Woodson is showing he is a better coach.

C'mon nixluva, it won't hurt you to admit it.

We saw MDA have success with this team minus Melo. Melo never gave MDA the effort that we see him giving now. If he had there's no way this team is struggling to lock up the 8th seed. This is really a dumb argument, since both coaches have had about the same level of success in the league, MDA perhaps a bit more, but overall MDA had to fight with his star player rather than that player basically doing his job and giving max effort from day one.

And I know some with say look at the defense but lets remember that this team defended better statistically all year when Melo wasn't playing. The same went for STAT, but with Melo it's clear he could easily have played harder all the time. He basically went from doggin it to bustin his hump in one afternoon. You can't say it was Woody's coaching when he hadn't even coached one practice before we saw a renewed Melo on defense!!!! Woody didn't even had a chance to make any changes in the D and the players admitted that it was mostly just effort. They gave that same effort during Linsanity when Melo wasn't playing. Things only got bad when he came back!!! So basically Melo didn't play for MDA. Maybe he didn't like his accent. Melo played for Woody without so much as a practice to work off of. It was too abrupt a turnaround for my taste. I don't want my teams best player acting like that.

We'd better all hope to God that Melo hasn't damaged the teams chances this year by his dogging it most of the year. We should be leading the Atlantic.

You should direct that blame at D'Antoni. How many times have the whole Knicks team look like they just ate a whole Turkey at halftime to start 2nd halves?

i always did a better job when working for a boss who didn't act like they were above me. Just made me feel better about the job and made me want to work harder. Not sure it's the case here, but I'm guessing that Woodson is a much better communicator then MDA was.

+1

This can be said for anyone who works in any environment.

Did Stat "Dog It" for MDA? He certainly did not play defense for him. Once Woodson took over, his defense looked stellar! That does not bold well for MDA.

It was not one guy who quit on MDA - HE LOST THE WHOLE TEAM!

That's what I don't get. It wasn't just Melo, it was the ENTIRE team that tuned MDA out. His system and focus on offense wasn't working and they stopped buying into his gimmicky approach to basketball. It's like the style over substance argument. D'Antoni would rather lose a nailbiter as long as his team hit 10+ threes, shot 50% from the field, and had a 2 to 1 assist/TO ratio. Woodson would just rather gut out an ugly ISO heavy slugfest no matter what the percentages.

Do you remember any championship team that did rely heavily on ISO? I don't.

Hmm..I don't recall. Didn't Jordan\Olujawon\Kobe\Dwade\Dirk run an ISO play or 10 in the 4 quarters of games?

HugeKnick4 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Rookie wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

misterearl wrote:The Will To Win

Mike Woodson is showing he is a better coach.

C'mon nixluva, it won't hurt you to admit it.

We saw MDA have success with this team minus Melo. Melo never gave MDA the effort that we see him giving now. If he had there's no way this team is struggling to lock up the 8th seed. This is really a dumb argument, since both coaches have had about the same level of success in the league, MDA perhaps a bit more, but overall MDA had to fight with his star player rather than that player basically doing his job and giving max effort from day one.

And I know some with say look at the defense but lets remember that this team defended better statistically all year when Melo wasn't playing. The same went for STAT, but with Melo it's clear he could easily have played harder all the time. He basically went from doggin it to bustin his hump in one afternoon. You can't say it was Woody's coaching when he hadn't even coached one practice before we saw a renewed Melo on defense!!!! Woody didn't even had a chance to make any changes in the D and the players admitted that it was mostly just effort. They gave that same effort during Linsanity when Melo wasn't playing. Things only got bad when he came back!!! So basically Melo didn't play for MDA. Maybe he didn't like his accent. Melo played for Woody without so much as a practice to work off of. It was too abrupt a turnaround for my taste. I don't want my teams best player acting like that.

We'd better all hope to God that Melo hasn't damaged the teams chances this year by his dogging it most of the year. We should be leading the Atlantic.

You should direct that blame at D'Antoni. How many times have the whole Knicks team look like they just ate a whole Turkey at halftime to start 2nd halves?

i always did a better job when working for a boss who didn't act like they were above me. Just made me feel better about the job and made me want to work harder. Not sure it's the case here, but I'm guessing that Woodson is a much better communicator then MDA was.

+1

This can be said for anyone who works in any environment.

Did Stat "Dog It" for MDA? He certainly did not play defense for him. Once Woodson took over, his defense looked stellar! That does not bold well for MDA.

It was not one guy who quit on MDA - HE LOST THE WHOLE TEAM!

That's what I don't get. It wasn't just Melo, it was the ENTIRE team that tuned MDA out. His system and focus on offense wasn't working and they stopped buying into his gimmicky approach to basketball. It's like the style over substance argument. D'Antoni would rather lose a nailbiter as long as his team hit 10+ threes, shot 50% from the field, and had a 2 to 1 assist/TO ratio. Woodson would just rather gut out an ugly ISO heavy slugfest no matter what the percentages.

To argue that the entire team tuned MDA out seems a bit over the top.

I think he lost the team - as a team. I think at the end they were all really relieved that it was over. Stat looked like he was release from a cage after MDA.

mrKnickShot wrote:It was not one guy who quit on MDA - HE LOST THE WHOLE TEAM!

I don't believe you have any proof that this is the case. From everything i've ever seen or read this isn't true. It wasn't true in the Boston or Chicago games where the team for the most part was in those games. I think that his fight with Melo was detrimental to him and the team overall. Just days before Melo came back the team was still upbeat and into it. The 6 game losing streak which had some close losses is what soured the mood. It's not like they all turned on MDA for something he did to them. The players were all shocked to learn he had resigned. This is about MDA and Melo plain and simple. The change in Melo's attitude was instantaneous which gives away the truth of how he felt about MDA for whatever reason. It effected how MDA coached as well.

MDA and Woodson use the same defense. The major change came not with defensive philosophy but roster. Adding Tyson and Shump along with Jared was huge. It was unfortunately undermined by STAT and Melo. We saw an immediate and stark improvement when those 2 weren't on the floor. The stats show a huge improvement in D with only the removal of STAT and Melo. It was visible to the naked eye as well. STAT has always stunk, but he started to improve even before MDA left. Melo however, only showed improved effort after MDA left.

I like Woody. I like his coaching and he is doing a great job with the team. I think he relates with the players better. He's still got a heavy load to lift given the hole the team was in, but they look like the team they were supposed to be and that a major credit to him. I hope that he succeeds and gets the job permanently.

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:It was not one guy who quit on MDA - HE LOST THE WHOLE TEAM!

I don't believe you have any proof that this is the case. From everything i've ever seen or read this isn't true. It wasn't true in the Boston or Chicago games where the team for the most part was in those games. I think that his fight with Melo was detrimental to him and the team overall. Just days before Melo came back the team was still upbeat and into it. The 6 game losing streak which had some close losses is what soured the mood. It's not like they all turned on MDA for something he did to them. The players were all shocked to learn he had resigned. This is about MDA and Melo plain and simple. The change in Melo's attitude was instantaneous which gives away the truth of how he felt about MDA for whatever reason. It effected how MDA coached as well.

MDA and Woodson use the same defense. The major change came not with defensive philosophy but roster. Adding Tyson and Shump along with Jared was huge. It was unfortunately undermined by STAT and Melo. We saw an immediate and stark improvement when those 2 weren't on the floor. The stats show a huge improvement in D with only the removal of STAT and Melo. It was visible to the naked eye as well. STAT has always stunk, but he started to improve even before MDA left. Melo however, only showed improved effort after MDA left.

I like Woody. I like his coaching and he is doing a great job with the team. I think he relates with the players better. He's still got a heavy load to lift given the hole the team was in, but they look like the team they were supposed to be and that a major credit to him. I hope that he succeeds and gets the job permanently.

It's true.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7684157/mike-dantoni-lost-new-york-knicks-locker-room-according-sources

The players like Mike as a person," one source said. "They think he's a good guy. But he doesn't have the respect of the team anymore."

In addition to questioning D'Antoni, players are complaining about playing time, and confused about the offensive and defensive schemes.