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Up by 3, to foul or not to foul?
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airchibundo507
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3/6/2012  1:57 PM
JR, Melo and Amare need to find their shots.

The spacing will be SO much better when they do. Hopefully Fields is benched in the near future.

"LINISH HIM!"
AUTOADVERT
Uptown
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3/6/2012  2:19 PM
I know Vecsey can be a hack at times, but he has a article on foul or not to foul:


D’Antoni played the bulk of his career in Italy and began coaching there. Yesterday, mentor Dan Peterson wrote: “I’ll go so far as to say this: If a coach here, from the heights of the European League all the way down to Mini-Basket, does not order his team to make that foul in that situation, he is simply torn to pieces, by the press, by the fans, by his own organization. In Europe, if your team does not do this, it is the coaching equivalent of hara-kiri. Professional suicide. I am not joking when I say coaches have ruined their careers this way. They are remembered for that and that alone. … Some have paid for it with their jobs. Not some. Many. It is called ‘coaching sabotage.’ ”

Over here, Rick Carlisle instructs the Mavericks to foul when up three in the waning moments. Boston’s Doc Rivers and Golden State’s Mark Jackson do the same. Del Harris, Cotton Fitzsimmons and Don Nelson were strong advocates of that practice.In fact, when Nellie was at Dallas, he would order fouling with 20 seconds left, daring opponents to get into a free-throw-shooting contest with Dirk Nowitzki, Steve Nash and Michael Finley.

Apparently, there are NBA coaches who foul up 3.....

mrKnickShot
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3/6/2012  2:30 PM
Uptown wrote:I know Vecsey can be a hack at times, but he has a article on foul or not to foul:


D’Antoni played the bulk of his career in Italy and began coaching there. Yesterday, mentor Dan Peterson wrote: “I’ll go so far as to say this: If a coach here, from the heights of the European League all the way down to Mini-Basket, does not order his team to make that foul in that situation, he is simply torn to pieces, by the press, by the fans, by his own organization. In Europe, if your team does not do this, it is the coaching equivalent of hara-kiri. Professional suicide. I am not joking when I say coaches have ruined their careers this way. They are remembered for that and that alone. … Some have paid for it with their jobs. Not some. Many. It is called ‘coaching sabotage.’ ”

Over here, Rick Carlisle instructs the Mavericks to foul when up three in the waning moments. Boston’s Doc Rivers and Golden State’s Mark Jackson do the same. Del Harris, Cotton Fitzsimmons and Don Nelson were strong advocates of that practice.In fact, when Nellie was at Dallas, he would order fouling with 20 seconds left, daring opponents to get into a free-throw-shooting contest with Dirk Nowitzki, Steve Nash and Michael Finley.

Apparently, there are NBA coaches who foul up 3.....

Already posted.

But I bet after a few more games like Sac vs Denver yesterday - where Sac was in the exact same position as the knicks, chose not to foul (intentionally) and foul in the act of Afallos 3. Result? Denver wins in OT. Same happened in the Minny vs LA game but Paul missed the free throw and they lost.

So, not intentionally fouling has failed in 3 games in 2 days. Hopefully by now the supercomputers were updated and now MDA might rethink? Nah! hopeless

mrKnickShot
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3/6/2012  3:49 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:If we don't turn the ball over 22 times the game doesn't go down the wire. Our PGs had a combine 12 assist and 12 Turnovers.

Every situation is different, but I would have fouled in this situation. #1 I believe we had a foul to give. #2 Boston didn't have any time outs left. The plan should have been to foul when they are inside the 2 pt line &/or before they have any chance at putting up a shot. The best opportunity would have been when KG was handing the ball off to Pierce. Maybe wrap pierce up before he is able to get the ball.

We played good D though Pierce just hit a good shot. When KG is free to set illegal picks as much as he wants its harder to play tough D but they still played through it. We had our own opportunity to win the game, Melo got his Iso on Pierce he just missed his opportunity. But I would take a Melo Iso on Pierce any day of the week.

Jr Smith needs to find his shot

I agree with almost everything you said. However, I am not sure if the "foul to give" would have made a difference in my decision making.

y2zipper
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3/6/2012  6:52 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
y2zipper wrote:I'm a believer that you don't foul because there's no chance to lose the game on that play. If you foul, you open the door for a four-point play. The Knicks made the right play. They didn't foul the jump shooter and forced him to make a contested three. He just happened to make it.

That's playing scared and not to lose instead of to win. It's the NBA version of the prevent defense which we all love

No it's not. It's playing the odds, and that's how you play. Overtime is the worst case scenario if you don't foul and the player on the other team makes a contested 25-foot shot with a hand in his face. The problem is that the Knicks were unable to respond with the last five seconds and in overtime.

y2zipper
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3/6/2012  6:53 PM
martin wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
martin wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
y2zipper wrote:I'm a believer that you don't foul because there's no chance to lose the game on that play. If you foul, you open the door for a four-point play. The Knicks made the right play. They didn't foul the jump shooter and forced him to make a contested three. He just happened to make it.

That's playing scared and not to lose instead of to win. It's the NBA version of the prevent defense which we all love

what exactly would you have done if you were coach? Specifically, detail it out.

15-18 seconds on clock don't foul? 10-15 start to think about foul? < 10 seconds foul in 3 point land but not Pierce or Allen? Oh, and don't get clipped by KG on the pick cause he is DEFINITELY gonna move his screen.

Is that what MDA should be instructing? These aren't robots out there.

I would have pressured Rondo up the court and fouled him as soon as soon as I could (around or before half court), I would have trapped the pick instead of switching and fouled Pierce before he can turn.

Mainly, I would have told my players to press Rondo and foul him right before or at mid-court.

You can't tell me that you did not think that shot would be good as soon as he shot it - c'mon! I hate him and I hate seeing him continuously beat us

I don't remember the team (I think it was StanVG) did this twice withing 20 seconds and it worked for him.

I am not saying to always do this but Allen and Pierce cannot both be double teamed so they are gonna find a way to get a good look and always seem to.

you are coaching in hind sight.

Up 3 you would start your defense at half court... and watch Rondo, one of the fastest, trickiest dudes with the ball blow past you and create an open slot for someone.

I wouldn't. In fact, I'd put five perimeter players in the game, play them all at the three-point line and tell them that they are not allowed to jump under any circumstances.

BRIGGS
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3/6/2012  7:39 PM
I was 6 rows behind the Knicks bench yelling to foul--I mean LOUD. Look at the %. Paul Pierce has a 40% chance to make a three.

The other scenario grab the guy with the ball with 12 seconds or less---especially in this case with NO timeouts!!!!!! Their % go WAY down--it becomes unlikely they could tie or go ahead in almost any conceivable matter--this way for Pierce its a legit 40%. Its a no brainer what to do.

RIP Crushalot&#128542;
mrKnickShot
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3/6/2012  8:14 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/6/2012  8:14 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I was 6 rows behind the Knicks bench yelling to foul--I mean LOUD. Look at the %. Paul Pierce has a 40% chance to make a three.

The other scenario grab the guy with the ball with 12 seconds or less---especially in this case with NO timeouts!!!!!! Their % go WAY down--it becomes unlikely they could tie or go ahead in almost any conceivable matter--this way for Pierce its a legit 40%. Its a no brainer what to do.

Thanks Briggs!

A voice of reason. Its freakin Paul Pierce! Who did not think that shot was going in when it was in the air? No one!

ChuckBuck
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USA
3/6/2012  9:49 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I was 6 rows behind the Knicks bench yelling to foul--I mean LOUD. Look at the %. Paul Pierce has a 40% chance to make a three.

The other scenario grab the guy with the ball with 12 seconds or less---especially in this case with NO timeouts!!!!!! Their % go WAY down--it becomes unlikely they could tie or go ahead in almost any conceivable matter--this way for Pierce its a legit 40%. Its a no brainer what to do.

+100

markvmc
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3/6/2012  11:28 PM
In fact, Pierce, in the clutch (defined as last 5 minutes or OT, neither team more than 5 ahead) is actually only a .268 3 point shooter. So he misses that shot between 7 and 8 times out of 10.
mrKnickShot
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3/7/2012  2:25 AM
markvmc wrote:In fact, Pierce, in the clutch (defined as last 5 minutes or OT, neither team more than 5 ahead) is actually only a .268 3 point shooter. So he misses that shot between 7 and 8 times out of 10.

How about last second shots against the knicks?

Up by 3, to foul or not to foul?

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