tkf wrote:

thanks smack.. but if my boss came in and said part of his bad business decision making was paying us workers at a rate that was not sustainable, then I would understand, especially if it mean the longterm health of the business that was paying me damn good!!!

what has hurt the owners more than anything else? I mean they are not using the money to invest in whacky business ventures, hookers and strip clubs.. the biggest expense are the players.. so if they are making bad decisions it is overpaying players they have to pay in order to meet that ridiculous 57% bri....

Ha! I see your point, but if your boss then went on to explain that the overpaying problem was due to the fact that he had just given some fat guy called Eddy Curry tens of millions of dollars when no one else wanted to employ him, and had just splashed out $120 million on a medicocre guy called Joe Johnson for reasons not even known to himself, and as a result was going to take away money from me and all other future employees so that he's never able to do such a thing again, I would probably respond with a resounding WTF?!

Also the thing is- the owners (and I think you too- I can't remember!) point to the NHL as a better system, but isn't the BRI share 53-57% there?

Andrew wrote:

Follow Nazr's situation through....

You'd tell your boss to go screw himself and then go get another job that pays the same amount that you are making now.....oh crap.

Ha- I must admit, I know how stubborn I can be and if I'd stormed out of the meeting with my boss, syaing "NEVER!" I couldn't return a few weeks later and agree to all his demands! It would be a matter of principal, for which I would pay dearly! I don't envy the players at all!

tkf wrote:

eViL wrote:

tkf wrote:You guys can whine all you want about these owners.. This is not healthcare, this is not some greedy utility company trying to take advantage of the public with ridiculous rates.. this is a sport.. these rich owners have the right to try to make some money, a lot of money or as much as they can.... why do you guys feel they owe it to the players, even if it cost them to the point of bankrupting their huge investments... for me, I won't be buying hawks season tickets this year until the owners clean up the league.. this is how I deal with those guys... I directly hit their pockets.. I don't wish for them to overpay, already overpaid athletes to get back at them.. this is the owners league.. the players and the league are the owners product... End of story.. if the players feel they are getting jerked around, tell them to go work for wal mart then... I heard they just cut part time workers health insurance and went up on full time workers insurance rates... see how fair they think that is...

these players are already the highest paid guys in the sports world on average... I don't care how many damn yacths paul allen has, it has nothing to do with basketball.. if the players really feel they are getting screwed.. go form your own damn league!!! Music artist who feel the record label is ripping them off, go independent, hell sell your CD's out the back of your friggin trunk!! these players and their entitlements are hilarious and the fans who support them simply because they want to bring down the rich.. "occupy the NBA" are being just as ridiculous....

bankrupting what huge investments? which team is bankrupt? two teams just sold for way more than they were purchased for. that's a fact. now show me the bankrupt teams. oh yeah... you can't. i guess the new owners who bought the Sixers and Warriors are just idiot billionaires right? they don't know what they hell they are doing with their money. they just throw it around and get lucky. no one told them that owning an NBA franchise is a ticket to poverty. c'mon son. getthe****outtaherewitdatbull****.

i'm not advocating for the owners to overpay. i'm advocating for the f@cking season to start because the f#ckin Knicks might actually be f&cking good this year. that is all. i'd like to see the system change, but no more of this "punish the big markets" sh!t that is being pushed by the small market owners. you realize that's what they are trying to do right? they are trying to come up with more ways to hurt the Knicks and other big market teams.

you're siding with the small market owners. fact is, many big market owners have already been on board with the deal. Knicks, Lakers, Heat, Mavericks -- all ready to play ball. you are siding with the Suns, Nuggets, Spurs, Hawks and the slew of small market teams that are prolonging this lockout. in one breath you are saying how you aren't going to support the Hawks, but your entire position is in support of the Hawks and similarly situated teams. meanwhile, you're supposed to be a Knicks fan? huh? you don't make sense.

I am an NBA fan... if the other teams can't survive then we have a 10 team league.. I make a lot of sense.... I want basketball to continue as well, but if teams are struggling then what good is the league? And don't question me being a knick fan, how about being a basketball fan first... the league is bigger than the knicks and these greedy players.... Yes, It isn't fair the knicks can throw away money, raise the value of players and the smaller teams have to suffer.. yes the league needs protection against big spending idiots like dolan.... Yes... i want the NBA to be competitive and the owners to make money and the players to get paid... so far only one thing is happenning.. The players are getting paid....... not good enough for me ....

sorry but the Knicks spent a decade bailing bad small market teams out of their bad decisions by taking on their terrible contracts. i don't see how big spending idiots like Dolan hurt the small market teams. Dolan practically paved the way for the Suns to have an instantaneous rebuild by taking Marbury and Penny off their hands. he helped the Bucks out by taking on Tim Thomas. helped the Rockets out by taking on Maurice Taylor. helped the Magic out by taking on Steve Francis. helped the Suns again by taking on Q-Rich. helped the Blazers by taking on Zach Randolph. etc. etc. he wasn't raising anyone's value. all of those deals were already done. it's not like the Knicks were bidding people up.

i don't get your point. we weren't even involved in free agency until last season. the small markets loved it when the Knicks were their bailout from bad deals but as soon as the Knicks were well managed and able to engage big-name free agents, it became a problem.

contract the Kings, Hornets, Blazers and Suns if they can't make money. don't try to screw the fans of big market teams. and don't try to screw the players by taking away their freedom to eventually choose what team they want to play for.

eViL wrote:

Andrew wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Ha, I like nazr mohammed's tweets on the situation:

"What would u do if ur boss called u into the office and told u that business is the best it's ever been but that he's made some bad..."
"...business decisions and he needs u to take a pay-cut?!?!...We said ok! How much do u need?!?! They said $300m...We said Cool!...Then..."
"...They said No, lets make that $500m lol "

And elsewhere someone pointed out that if the nba wants the NHL's system, then they do realise the players their get 53 to 57% of the BRI right? Absolute jokers!

TKF, I've always appreciated your "keys to the game threads", but I think your way off on this lockout debate- I think it's because I don't actually believe the owners are actually interested in fixing the system- only about pumping up their teams values for when they sell them and are happy to destroy the NBA to plumpen their already fat pockets. They don't care about fixing the nba at all.

Follow Nazr's situation through....

You'd tell your boss to go screw himself and then go get another job that pays the same amount that you are making now.....oh crap.

you mean, "oh crap. my boss has an anti-trust exemption because he's allowed by the government to hold a monopoly over my field of expertise and now he's using that advantage to squeeze me because i have no recourse other than to de-certify my union and throw away a year of my already limited 10 year career."

<crickets>

Andrew wrote:

eViL wrote:

eViL wrote:

Andrew wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Ha, I like nazr mohammed's tweets on the situation:

"What would u do if ur boss called u into the office and told u that business is the best it's ever been but that he's made some bad..."
"...business decisions and he needs u to take a pay-cut?!?!...We said ok! How much do u need?!?! They said $300m...We said Cool!...Then..."
"...They said No, lets make that $500m lol "

And elsewhere someone pointed out that if the nba wants the NHL's system, then they do realise the players their get 53 to 57% of the BRI right? Absolute jokers!

TKF, I've always appreciated your "keys to the game threads", but I think your way off on this lockout debate- I think it's because I don't actually believe the owners are actually interested in fixing the system- only about pumping up their teams values for when they sell them and are happy to destroy the NBA to plumpen their already fat pockets. They don't care about fixing the nba at all.

Follow Nazr's situation through....

You'd tell your boss to go screw himself and then go get another job that pays the same amount that you are making now.....oh crap.

you mean, "oh crap. my boss has an anti-trust exemption because he's allowed by the government to hold a monopoly over my field of expertise and now he's using that advantage to squeeze me because i have no recourse other than to de-certify my union and throw away a year of my already limited 10 year career."

<crickets>

Either way, what are you going to do?

Andrew wrote:
That's an option, but then you are accepting a bigger pay cut than what is currently being asked for by the NBA owners. And this option is only available for a small amount of players.

yes, but you have to draw a line somewhere- these are billionaires who get the city's they live in to give them money to pay for their arena's, they want richer teams to give them more money, and they want players to give them even more- where does it stop? should everyone just lie back and give them everything they want when they want it? It's just a very frustrating state of affairs.

eViL wrote:

tkf wrote:

eViL wrote:

tkf wrote:You guys can whine all you want about these owners.. This is not healthcare, this is not some greedy utility company trying to take advantage of the public with ridiculous rates.. this is a sport.. these rich owners have the right to try to make some money, a lot of money or as much as they can.... why do you guys feel they owe it to the players, even if it cost them to the point of bankrupting their huge investments... for me, I won't be buying hawks season tickets this year until the owners clean up the league.. this is how I deal with those guys... I directly hit their pockets.. I don't wish for them to overpay, already overpaid athletes to get back at them.. this is the owners league.. the players and the league are the owners product... End of story.. if the players feel they are getting jerked around, tell them to go work for wal mart then... I heard they just cut part time workers health insurance and went up on full time workers insurance rates... see how fair they think that is...

these players are already the highest paid guys in the sports world on average... I don't care how many damn yacths paul allen has, it has nothing to do with basketball.. if the players really feel they are getting screwed.. go form your own damn league!!! Music artist who feel the record label is ripping them off, go independent, hell sell your CD's out the back of your friggin trunk!! these players and their entitlements are hilarious and the fans who support them simply because they want to bring down the rich.. "occupy the NBA" are being just as ridiculous....

bankrupting what huge investments? which team is bankrupt? two teams just sold for way more than they were purchased for. that's a fact. now show me the bankrupt teams. oh yeah... you can't. i guess the new owners who bought the Sixers and Warriors are just idiot billionaires right? they don't know what they hell they are doing with their money. they just throw it around and get lucky. no one told them that owning an NBA franchise is a ticket to poverty. c'mon son. getthe****outtaherewitdatbull****.

i'm not advocating for the owners to overpay. i'm advocating for the f@cking season to start because the f#ckin Knicks might actually be f&cking good this year. that is all. i'd like to see the system change, but no more of this "punish the big markets" sh!t that is being pushed by the small market owners. you realize that's what they are trying to do right? they are trying to come up with more ways to hurt the Knicks and other big market teams.

you're siding with the small market owners. fact is, many big market owners have already been on board with the deal. Knicks, Lakers, Heat, Mavericks -- all ready to play ball. you are siding with the Suns, Nuggets, Spurs, Hawks and the slew of small market teams that are prolonging this lockout. in one breath you are saying how you aren't going to support the Hawks, but your entire position is in support of the Hawks and similarly situated teams. meanwhile, you're supposed to be a Knicks fan? huh? you don't make sense.

I am an NBA fan... if the other teams can't survive then we have a 10 team league.. I make a lot of sense.... I want basketball to continue as well, but if teams are struggling then what good is the league? And don't question me being a knick fan, how about being a basketball fan first... the league is bigger than the knicks and these greedy players.... Yes, It isn't fair the knicks can throw away money, raise the value of players and the smaller teams have to suffer.. yes the league needs protection against big spending idiots like dolan.... Yes... i want the NBA to be competitive and the owners to make money and the players to get paid... so far only one thing is happenning.. The players are getting paid....... not good enough for me ....

sorry but the Knicks spent a decade bailing bad small market teams out of their bad decisions by taking on their terrible contracts. i don't see how big spending idiots like Dolan hurt the small market teams. Dolan practically paved the way for the Suns to have an instantaneous rebuild by taking Marbury and Penny off their hands. he helped the Bucks out by taking on Tim Thomas. helped the Rockets out by taking on Maurice Taylor. helped the Magic out by taking on Steve Francis. helped the Suns again by taking on Q-Rich. helped the Blazers by taking on Zach Randolph. etc. etc. he wasn't raising anyone's value. all of those deals were already done. it's not like the Knicks were bidding people up.

i don't get your point. we weren't even involved in free agency until last season. the small markets loved it when the Knicks were their bailout from bad deals but as soon as the Knicks were well managed and able to engage big-name free agents, it became a problem.

contract the Kings, Hornets, Blazers and Suns if they can't make money. don't try to screw the fans of big market teams. and don't try to screw the players by taking away their freedom to eventually choose what team they want to play for.

SO WHAT you are saying is that the knicks were being nice and doing the small market teams a favor by making dumb trades to take the big contracts off their hands? huh?

so what you are saying is that Dolan is a savior for the small market teams? haha.. wow..

tkf wrote:

eViL wrote:

tkf wrote:

eViL wrote:

tkf wrote:You guys can whine all you want about these owners.. This is not healthcare, this is not some greedy utility company trying to take advantage of the public with ridiculous rates.. this is a sport.. these rich owners have the right to try to make some money, a lot of money or as much as they can.... why do you guys feel they owe it to the players, even if it cost them to the point of bankrupting their huge investments... for me, I won't be buying hawks season tickets this year until the owners clean up the league.. this is how I deal with those guys... I directly hit their pockets.. I don't wish for them to overpay, already overpaid athletes to get back at them.. this is the owners league.. the players and the league are the owners product... End of story.. if the players feel they are getting jerked around, tell them to go work for wal mart then... I heard they just cut part time workers health insurance and went up on full time workers insurance rates... see how fair they think that is...

these players are already the highest paid guys in the sports world on average... I don't care how many damn yacths paul allen has, it has nothing to do with basketball.. if the players really feel they are getting screwed.. go form your own damn league!!! Music artist who feel the record label is ripping them off, go independent, hell sell your CD's out the back of your friggin trunk!! these players and their entitlements are hilarious and the fans who support them simply because they want to bring down the rich.. "occupy the NBA" are being just as ridiculous....

bankrupting what huge investments? which team is bankrupt? two teams just sold for way more than they were purchased for. that's a fact. now show me the bankrupt teams. oh yeah... you can't. i guess the new owners who bought the Sixers and Warriors are just idiot billionaires right? they don't know what they hell they are doing with their money. they just throw it around and get lucky. no one told them that owning an NBA franchise is a ticket to poverty. c'mon son. getthe****outtaherewitdatbull****.

i'm not advocating for the owners to overpay. i'm advocating for the f@cking season to start because the f#ckin Knicks might actually be f&cking good this year. that is all. i'd like to see the system change, but no more of this "punish the big markets" sh!t that is being pushed by the small market owners. you realize that's what they are trying to do right? they are trying to come up with more ways to hurt the Knicks and other big market teams.

you're siding with the small market owners. fact is, many big market owners have already been on board with the deal. Knicks, Lakers, Heat, Mavericks -- all ready to play ball. you are siding with the Suns, Nuggets, Spurs, Hawks and the slew of small market teams that are prolonging this lockout. in one breath you are saying how you aren't going to support the Hawks, but your entire position is in support of the Hawks and similarly situated teams. meanwhile, you're supposed to be a Knicks fan? huh? you don't make sense.

I am an NBA fan... if the other teams can't survive then we have a 10 team league.. I make a lot of sense.... I want basketball to continue as well, but if teams are struggling then what good is the league? And don't question me being a knick fan, how about being a basketball fan first... the league is bigger than the knicks and these greedy players.... Yes, It isn't fair the knicks can throw away money, raise the value of players and the smaller teams have to suffer.. yes the league needs protection against big spending idiots like dolan.... Yes... i want the NBA to be competitive and the owners to make money and the players to get paid... so far only one thing is happenning.. The players are getting paid....... not good enough for me ....

sorry but the Knicks spent a decade bailing bad small market teams out of their bad decisions by taking on their terrible contracts. i don't see how big spending idiots like Dolan hurt the small market teams. Dolan practically paved the way for the Suns to have an instantaneous rebuild by taking Marbury and Penny off their hands. he helped the Bucks out by taking on Tim Thomas. helped the Rockets out by taking on Maurice Taylor. helped the Magic out by taking on Steve Francis. helped the Suns again by taking on Q-Rich. helped the Blazers by taking on Zach Randolph. etc. etc. he wasn't raising anyone's value. all of those deals were already done. it's not like the Knicks were bidding people up.

i don't get your point. we weren't even involved in free agency until last season. the small markets loved it when the Knicks were their bailout from bad deals but as soon as the Knicks were well managed and able to engage big-name free agents, it became a problem.

contract the Kings, Hornets, Blazers and Suns if they can't make money. don't try to screw the fans of big market teams. and don't try to screw the players by taking away their freedom to eventually choose what team they want to play for.

SO WHAT you are saying is that the knicks were being nice and doing the small market teams a favor by making dumb trades to take the big contracts off their hands? huh?

so what you are saying is that Dolan is a savior for the small market teams? haha.. wow..

Dolan WAS at one point the best thing that ever happened to small-market teams with bad contracts. but really, what i was trying to point out is that it wasn't Dolan driving up player contracts the way you were suggesting he is. the bad contracts we took on were already negotiated and agreed to by all those poor helpless small market teams.

Chris Paul was told by Hold in the meeting "Take it or leave it" and paul sounded like a little bitch.