AnubisADL wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:Knicks ended up with Felton, Amare, Lee trade, Moz. Quickly turned that into Amare, Melo, Billups.

You keep speaking about Revisionist history and never really put out what actually happened. Donnie did lay out his plan: it was to be in the free agent market with LeBron being top billing; sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't.

We got Melo and Billups summer 2010?

If Walsh's plan was to add 1 max and then trade for Melo we wouldn't have made the McGrady trade. Walsh wanted 2 max players and got 1.

We very likely would not have signed Amar'e without having room for two max guys. Amar'e thought Lebron would join him here and campaigned hard for it in the days leading up to the decision.

Also, without the McGrady trade, we wouldn't have had the cap room to acquire Anthony Randoplh, Mozgov or Felton - all of whom were assets in the Melo trade. I still don't love the Melo trade, and I think it is one of the reasons Walsh left, but if you like the Melo deal you pretty much needed the McGrady deal to happen first.

Amare already said he would have stayed in Phoenix if they offered him the the same contract.

Amare didn't think Lebron was joining him man. That is what fans thought. Amare thought about his 100 million.

"The Knicks' plan is to get another top-flight free agent to play alongside Stoudemire, and the All-Star forward is all aboard for that plan. He's already tried to recruit LeBron James and Joe Johnson to join him in New York."

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5353932

"Amar'e Stoudemire, who is nearing an agreement with the Knicks on a maximum-salary free-agent contract, feels that he can bring LeBron James with him to New York.

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports went on the air with Michael Kay on ESPN Radio to discuss points he made in a story Wojnarowski published Friday."

Whether or not the Knicks got Lebron, Amar'e was interested in bringing another star with him to NY.

Juice wrote:WOW this isn't sinking in for you...unreal how dense you are

OUR GM made it seem like it was so impossible to trade Zach after he passed on deals to trade him once teams made other moves or looked elsewhere. When in all honesty he was losing chances to unload him

Wojo's initial report of the trade never talked about 1rst rounders being asked or offered. Walsh hem hawed around with the Clippers and Dunleavy was like okay I'll just trade for Camby and offer a 2nd rounder then reports leaked out one going to Wojo after this went down that the Clippers were asking for a 1rst. We ended up 2mos later trading Zach to the same Clippers without a 1rst rounder being included...I'll let you remain confused here.

Try proofreading your own words you'll astound yourself

The funny thing is while these chances were being squandered fans were big upping Walsh for holding out saying "yeah get more for Randolph".....We saw how that played out didn't we.

Our GM didn't do anything. He didn't make anything seem like anything. YOU made it seem. This was a report from Alan Hahn of Newsday. This is not Donnie Walsh saying "it's so hard to trade Zach Randolph!". This is you saying it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why do you always talk out of your ass? He passed on other deals? How do you know of anything besides that Memphis and Clippers offer? The answer: you don't. And those offers could be BS as well, at least the logistics of it. You have no concrete information about anything and yet you act like you do. You actually have no information about anything yet you act like you do. This know-it-all attitude for someone who knows very little is actually quite irritating.

Wojo's initial report of the trade never talked about 1rst rounders being asked or offered. Walsh hem hawed around with the Clippers and Dunleavy was like okay I'll just trade for Camby and offer a 2nd rounder then reports leaked out one going to Wojo after this went down that the Clippers were asking for a 1rst. We ended up 2mos later trading Zach to the same Clippers without a 1rst rounder being included...I'll let you remain confused here.

You see, it would make sense to me if someone who was speaking english properly wrote it. It doesn't make sense coming from you.

Walsh turned down deals he thought the Knicks shouldn't do and took a better one during the season. He got Tim Thomas, the Clippers ended up with Craig Smith. I say he did OK in that department. In the end it wasn't about what you were getting back. Nobody - even today - is trading draft picks or anyone of note for Zach Randolph and Jamal Crawford. They are what they are - talented, but overpaid players who need a very good supporting cast of better players around them or they are worthless.

I find it hilarious that you type like a 3rd grader still learning how to use antonyms and pronouns and you're trying to tell me to proofread what I write. I'm surprised you actually know what that means.

Do yourself a favor and talk about something you know about because you clearly know nothing about the subject. You are literally pulling stories out of your ass. You pick one story and then create a new one from the one you just picked to back up your false claims. You have no inside information or outside information. You act like you do but you really, truly don't. You talk out of your ass too many times and having a discussion with you is like being on a merry-go-round. All you do is talk in circles, repeat yourself, don't read anything the other person says, keep repeating yourself and posting the same old things and then resort to belittling the opinions of others when your argument falls short. That's you. Wash, rinse and repeat.

I'm done here. I'd rather argue with ScoreBot. He can at least make sense when he posts.

crzymdups wrote:The Clippers offered a second round pick for ZBO, nothing more, nothing less. They were gonna give us the Blake Griffin pick for ZBO??? DREAM. ON.

Exactly C2D still doesn't get it...

Here's and article from a site I got summizing activity around this time http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-sign-roberson/

The Post is reporting that the Knicks have agreed in principle on a two-year deal with Anthony Roberson. (I always want to call him El Roberson, after the former Kansas State quarterback. Note: Anthony has nothing to do with El as far as I know.) What remains unclear is whether the second year of the league minimum deal will be a team option year. Since the signing puts the team one guaranteed contract over the limit other deals will be forthcoming, and this may spell the end for Marbury in NY. Certainly, one possible reading of Marbury’s interview on yesterday’s replay of the Knicks/Cavs game strongly suggests that he thinks he will be moved. “I just want to play, no matter where it is…” “It’s a business. I understand that…” Of course, even if Marbury thinks he’ll be moved that doesn’t mean he will be. The Knicks could clear a roster spot in any number of other ways. Donnie Walsh allegedly already passed up an offer from the Clippers; Zach Randolph for a second round pick in a straight salary dump. Presumably, he’s holding out for a bigger deal. (Interestingly, the Clips actually made that deal–only for Marcus Camby instead of Zeebo.) The Knicks are also widely thought to be entertaining buyouts for Jerome James (or perhaps an injury settlement) and potentially Mardy Collins (who incidentally looks a lot better–quicker–at the lighter weight). Malik Rose’s expiring contract could also potentially be a part of a pre-season deal. So, although this move does not absolutely spell the end of Marbury’s return to NY he may want to stop by the Post Office and pick up one of those “So, You’re Moving?” packets. They’re chock full of useful information, sometimes even coupons.

He couldn't keep up and follow the timeline

Middle of July 2008

The Clippers engaged in talks with us for Zach. Initial reports from Ian Thomsen and Wojo stated the Clippers offered only a 2nd rounder.

Knicks rebuffed the offer

Fans started big-upping Walsh saying Zach was worth so much more than a 2nd rounder.... although even then some fans didn't get the fact a TPE(Clips were under the cap) would have been acquired from such acquisition and Zach was making around $16-17mil at the time

Then the Clippers did a trade with Denver for Camby offering a 2nd rounder

Then reports surfaced within a couple days of this trade.......revisions from Thomsen and Wojo that the Clippers were asking for a 1rst rounder from us per Walsh....lol

Then we engage in talks with Memphis Darko/Marko for Zach....Darko made the comments in the press he was headed to Memphis prematurely. Then all of a sudden talks got to a halt well because according to Walsh, Wallace was asking for a 1rst rounder.

Now ask yourself where in the hell do you think Wallace got that idea from asking for a 1rst rounder from us. Look no further than our very own GM at the time

Now ask yourself how is it this very GM balks at giving up a 1rst along with Zach(and we have no idea what kind of 1rst was allegedly requested) for a proven player with an albatross contract but then in February of 2010(about a 1yr/half later) he's willing to throw in as many 1rst legally possible plus a lottery drafted player just to get rid of Effries?

ROTFLOL I mean getting rid of Zach was the first priority of having a remote chance at Lebron, then Jamal, then Effries

It's more than obvious Walsh was not being straight up with the Zach deal and he was responsible for derailing his value

1rst offer.....2nd rounder $16mil TPE

2nd offer......Darko/Marko

3rd offer......Tim Thomas/Mobley(bad heart from Rockets days)

Class is in Session starting at noon tomorrow C2D.... have your trapper keeper and pocket protector loaded

First of all he quoted a guy who wasn't agreeing with him and said "exactly", then he proceeded to write some nonsensical half-truths and finally ended it by making no point at all.

Who else would blame another team asking the Knicks for a 1st rounder on Donnie Walsh? Nobody else. Only this guy. Who else would think that trading Zach Randolph - a much talented player who a team would actually want, use and play - is equivalent to Jared Jeffries being traded? Nobody else. Only this guy. Who else would try to compare transactions like Hinrich and Jeffries, get told the facts and then never bother responding to them? Nobody else. Only this guy.

Somehow he thinks he proved something by telling me that Walsh failed because he took Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley over a 2nd rounder a TPE. Once again it proves to you all he had not bothered to read one line of any post I wrote. Instead he decided to rehash the same old tired argument that is literally complaining about nothing. This is the same guy who spent 6 months complaining about the 15th man on the team, Anthony Roberson.

A warning for fellow posters who wish to engage this guy/thing in future discussions - be prepared for a lot of this and very little actual formal discussion.

Juice wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:Knicks ended up with Felton, Amare, Lee trade, Moz. Quickly turned that into Amare, Melo, Billups.

You keep speaking about Revisionist history and never really put out what actually happened. Donnie did lay out his plan: it was to be in the free agent market with LeBron being top billing; sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't.

We got Melo and Billups summer 2010?

If Walsh's plan was to add 1 max and then trade for Melo we wouldn't have made the McGrady trade. Walsh wanted 2 max players and got 1.

Yeah Melo was never in the picture until he made it known he wanted out. Walsh clearly stated we were going after 2 Max players in the summer and that's why he made the T-mac trade. I guess thank Melo he wanted us and yet we paid a heavy price again to get him(a price Walsh after making the one he did to get Lebron and another Max) was totally hesitant on making, which required Dolan shot calling to make it happen. Remember Melo said he thought he was headed to New Jersey?

Walsh got Amar'e

Dolan got Melo
Let's get this straight

I disagree, James Dolan may had negotiated with Denver’s owner, but the truth is that without the proper pieces in place, the Carmelo deal never happened, Donnie put us in position to negotiate but acquiring young cheap talent and creating a flexible salary cap (which we didn’t have before he got here). James Dolan doesn’t have the brain or creativity to do something like this; otherwise he would have done it WAYYYYYY before Donnie came to New York, since our truly last superstar was Patrick Ewing more than a decade ago.

AnubisADL wrote:You think Dolan let Walsh waste 2 years to get anyone but Lebron James. Come on man. Amare was a nice consolation prize but I doubt that excused the last 2 years in Dolan's mind. Hence why Dolan probably offered the paycut.

When the McGrady trade went down the media and poster here were saying Donnie must know something... yada yada. Walsh didnt know jack **** and was guessing like all the other GM's. Walsh was the veteran GM who had connections and was respected yet he got raped in plenty of deals.

Walsh was/is riding his previous success in Indiana because he didnt do much in NY and the management knows it.

Raped? That's a straight up awful expression. I suggest you drop it from you vocabulary in this type of context.

You have waffled from Donnie not doing a bad job in NY to not doing much in NY.

Right now our team is Amare, Melo, Billups, second round gem, cap flexibility to land more next summer. Pant on about how Dolan did the Melo deal but it's not there if Donnie didn't put the assets in place.

Has he been perfect? Absolutely not. But I gauge a GM within the context of his landscape. When you in the desert and everyone knows you have to buy water, price for water goes up if you have a limited marketplace from which to buy; that's just reality.

Lots of reasons Dolan only offered the paycut; big reason cause of the upcoming lockout, but mostly cause he is short-sighted.

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:You think Dolan let Walsh waste 2 years to get anyone but Lebron James. Come on man. Amare was a nice consolation prize but I doubt that excused the last 2 years in Dolan's mind. Hence why Dolan probably offered the paycut.

When the McGrady trade went down the media and poster here were saying Donnie must know something... yada yada. Walsh didnt know jack **** and was guessing like all the other GM's. Walsh was the veteran GM who had connections and was respected yet he got raped in plenty of deals.

Walsh was/is riding his previous success in Indiana because he didnt do much in NY and the management knows it.

Raped? That's a straight up awful expression. I suggest you drop it from you vocabulary in this type of context.

You have waffled from Donnie not doing a bad job in NY to not doing much in NY.

Right now our team is Amare, Melo, Billups, second round gem, cap flexibility to land more next summer. Pant on about how Dolan did the Melo deal but it's not there if Donnie didn't put the assets in place.

Has he been perfect? Absolutely not. But I gauge a GM within the context of his landscape. When you in the desert and everyone knows you have to buy water, price for water goes up if you have a limited marketplace from which to buy; that's just reality.

Lots of reasons Dolan only offered the paycut; big reason cause of the upcoming lockout, but mostly cause he is short-sighted.

I haven't waffled. I said he was average and gave reasons why I thought he was average. If he didnt get Amare he'd be below average.

Chicago was in the desert along with Miami and they managed to get water at a decent price with less risk.

You are just making excuses at this point.

nyk4ever wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:You think Dolan let Walsh waste 2 years to get anyone but Lebron James. Come on man. Amare was a nice consolation prize but I doubt that excused the last 2 years in Dolan's mind. Hence why Dolan probably offered the paycut.

When the McGrady trade went down the media and poster here were saying Donnie must know something... yada yada. Walsh didnt know jack **** and was guessing like all the other GM's. Walsh was the veteran GM who had connections and was respected yet he got raped in plenty of deals.

Walsh was/is riding his previous success in Indiana because he didnt do much in NY and the management knows it.

Raped? That's a straight up awful expression. I suggest you drop it from you vocabulary in this type of context.

You have waffled from Donnie not doing a bad job in NY to not doing much in NY.

Right now our team is Amare, Melo, Billups, second round gem, cap flexibility to land more next summer. Pant on about how Dolan did the Melo deal but it's not there if Donnie didn't put the assets in place.

Has he been perfect? Absolutely not. But I gauge a GM within the context of his landscape. When you in the desert and everyone knows you have to buy water, price for water goes up if you have a limited marketplace from which to buy; that's just reality.

Lots of reasons Dolan only offered the paycut; big reason cause of the upcoming lockout, but mostly cause he is short-sighted.

I haven't waffled. I said he was average and gave reasons why I thought he was average. If he didnt get Amare he'd be below average.

Chicago was in the desert along with Miami and they managed to get water at a decent price with less risk.

You are just making excuses at this point.

chicago and miami were in the desert with a camel each (rose and wade) that's a big head start...

What does having Rose or Wade have to do with a trading a player for an expiring contract?

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:You think Dolan let Walsh waste 2 years to get anyone but Lebron James. Come on man. Amare was a nice consolation prize but I doubt that excused the last 2 years in Dolan's mind. Hence why Dolan probably offered the paycut.

When the McGrady trade went down the media and poster here were saying Donnie must know something... yada yada. Walsh didnt know jack **** and was guessing like all the other GM's. Walsh was the veteran GM who had connections and was respected yet he got raped in plenty of deals.

Walsh was/is riding his previous success in Indiana because he didnt do much in NY and the management knows it.

Raped? That's a straight up awful expression. I suggest you drop it from you vocabulary in this type of context.

You have waffled from Donnie not doing a bad job in NY to not doing much in NY.

Right now our team is Amare, Melo, Billups, second round gem, cap flexibility to land more next summer. Pant on about how Dolan did the Melo deal but it's not there if Donnie didn't put the assets in place.

Has he been perfect? Absolutely not. But I gauge a GM within the context of his landscape. When you in the desert and everyone knows you have to buy water, price for water goes up if you have a limited marketplace from which to buy; that's just reality.

Lots of reasons Dolan only offered the paycut; big reason cause of the upcoming lockout, but mostly cause he is short-sighted.

I haven't waffled. I said he was average and gave reasons why I thought he was average. If he didnt get Amare he'd be below average.

Chicago was in the desert along with Miami and they managed to get water at a decent price with less risk.

You are just making excuses at this point.

Explain this. what player moves did they have to make?