BlueSeats wrote:The problem with D'antoni, or at least my fear of him, isn't just that he doesn't get great defensive effort out of poor defensive players, it's that he doesn't demand that strong defensive players be acquired.

I'll go back to an example used before. I'm not convinced he'd want a Perkins-type big boned, center. I suspect he'd prefer some willowy guy with fast feet who can presumably switch quickly, even if he can't protect the paint or keep someone from backing him down.

Thus we could forever be in the cycle of lamenting how we can't expect great defense from our given roster when he is at cause for the roster we are given.

nixluva wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:The problem with D'antoni, or at least my fear of him, isn't just that he doesn't get great defensive effort out of poor defensive players, it's that he doesn't demand that strong defensive players be acquired.

I'll go back to an example used before. I'm not convinced he'd want a Perkins-type big boned, center. I suspect he'd prefer some willowy guy with fast feet who can presumably switch quickly, even if he can't protect the paint or keep someone from backing him down.

Thus we could forever be in the cycle of lamenting how we can't expect great defense from our given roster when he is at cause for the roster we are given.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Did the Knicks not try to get Wade and Lebron? Aside from those guys coming, who in particular were they going to get that would come in and lead the team playing great D? It seems to me that most of the time the top players in the league that are most sought after are the guys that score the most. Guys get drafted in the 1st rd. mostly for their offensive ability. How many guys are known more for their defense than anything else that we could've gotten? MOre importantly when has Mike turned down getting someone that can help us defensively? It appears to me that we went and added Jared only for defense, correct? Oh and Mike is the one that really wanted to promote Timo to starting C. He only went away from him when it was clear the kid needed more time. He clearly liked the kid a lot.

I'm suggesting that the system puts a premium on speed, which dictates a certain type of defender, the type that is rarely formidable on the interior. And when you don't protect the paint you're not only vulnerable to penetration, you're less likely to get defensive rebounds. Offensive rebounds perhaps - especially long rebounds from all the missed threes - but less so the crucial interior rebounds that kill us in the 4th quarters.

BlueSeats wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:The problem with D'antoni, or at least my fear of him, isn't just that he doesn't get great defensive effort out of poor defensive players, it's that he doesn't demand that strong defensive players be acquired.

I'll go back to an example used before. I'm not convinced he'd want a Perkins-type big boned, center. I suspect he'd prefer some willowy guy with fast feet who can presumably switch quickly, even if he can't protect the paint or keep someone from backing him down.

Thus we could forever be in the cycle of lamenting how we can't expect great defense from our given roster when he is at cause for the roster we are given.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Did the Knicks not try to get Wade and Lebron? Aside from those guys coming, who in particular were they going to get that would come in and lead the team playing great D? It seems to me that most of the time the top players in the league that are most sought after are the guys that score the most. Guys get drafted in the 1st rd. mostly for their offensive ability. How many guys are known more for their defense than anything else that we could've gotten? MOre importantly when has Mike turned down getting someone that can help us defensively? It appears to me that we went and added Jared only for defense, correct? Oh and Mike is the one that really wanted to promote Timo to starting C. He only went away from him when it was clear the kid needed more time. He clearly liked the kid a lot.

I'm suggesting that the system puts a premium on speed, which dictates a certain type of defender, the type that is rarely formidable on the interior. And when you don't protect the paint you're not only vulnerable to penetration, you're less likely to get defensive rebounds. Offensive rebounds perhaps - especially long rebounds from all the missed threes - but less so the crucial interior rebounds that kill us in the 4th quarters.

We had a big that could run the floor in Timo. We could also run with a player like Camby or Tyson Chandler. It's not like we can only play with a big bruiser in order to get what we need in the middle. For goodness sakes D. Howard is a physical specimen that could play in this system. Also there is and has always been a huge halfcourt component to this offense and remember Shaq played under Mike too. My guess is we'll be looking at guys like Deandre Jordan. Big kids that can get up and down.

Melo and STAT have been playing in fast paced offenses. Denver was number 1 and the Knicks number 2 in scoring. So the only reason we aren't running as much now is about Billups and to some extent Melo not knowing the system well enough to execute right now. That won't be the case next year.

misterearl wrote:Who Is Running the Store?

The retirement/ firing of Jerry Sloan is a watershed moment in the NBA. A taskmaster who is suddenly in conflict with a star. The last "extreme" disciplinarian the Knicks had on the sidelines was Hubie Brown. Brown did not care who you were. If you sucked you were told ... and you sat.

Perhaps the last vestige of an "old school" presence was lost when the legendary Lenny Wilkens "retired." I had the rare opportunity to watch Lenny up close in Atlanta and he did not play. Closed practices were tightly run and players worked hard. After practice it took them about a half hour to get their wind back. If you were late, you heard about it. The infamous JR Rider had met his match and had to conform or be gone. Wilkens took a rag-tag bunch of mis-matched parts and squeezed a 50 win season out of them. But he always cool about it in public.

Which brings us to D'Antoni. He would NEVER be seen getting in a star's face in public. The players wield too much power and influence. I miss the days when Red Holzman would yank his entire starting five if they were sluggish. Then again, Red had a strong enough second unit to do that. It was an effective tactic which got players attention. Red reminded them that he controlled the most valuable commodity - the minutes.

Ever wonder how Bob Hurley would fare on the sidelines at Madison Square Garden?

Now, THAT I would pay to see.

yup the only player MDA rides is toney douglas. it's unfortunate, but that's what the league is about nowadays—the inmates run the asylum. college basketball is exciting; the kids don't have their multi-million dollar contracts yet so they play their asses off AND they listen to their coaches.

The next round of turnover in the Knicks executive suite will set the tone for the next decade.

The odds of Donnie Walsh returning for a fourth year are slim and his April 30 extension is on the back burner. The Knicks performance in the playoffs will determine a lot about the future direction as Dolan will use it to measure how "close" the Knicks are to filling the pricey seats in the brand new 2013 MSG.

Which brings us to D'Antoni and his two stars. Whatever coaching demands/ expectations are placed on the two MAX players must be managed carefully on a nightly basis. Those expectations must also apply to the entire team. Guys KNOW when preferential treatment is in play and will respond accordingly.

Whether the example for Knicks playing personality is set by Amare and Anthony, another leader who emerges from the tourists, or the entire roster, will be an interesting sub-plot to follow.

How demanding can D'Antoni afford to be, without losing the endorsement of his two stars?

CrushAlot wrote:Just to clarify on Mozgov. He had 20 dnps coaches decision while he was in NY and averaged 13 minutes a game for the 34 games he got on the court. He was buried on the bench and pubicly sharing how discouraging his situation was in NY before he had his big game in the end of Jan.. Had he not had his huge game when injuries forced him and Randolph into the rotation I don't think he would have made it back onto the court for D'Antoni. I don't think D'Antoni was as committed to playing Moz as you imply but I could be wrong.

MDA had publicly stated that Moz was very close to ready several times before he actually got the chance in Detroit.

BlueSeats wrote:The problem with D'antoni, or at least my fear of him, isn't just that he doesn't get great defensive effort out of poor defensive players, it's that he doesn't demand that strong defensive players be acquired.

I'll go back to an example used before. I'm not convinced he'd want a Perkins-type big boned, center. I suspect he'd prefer some willowy guy with fast feet who can presumably switch quickly, even if he can't protect the paint or keep someone from backing him down.

Thus we could forever be in the cycle of lamenting how we can't expect great defense from our given roster when he is at cause for the roster we are given.

Finally, a voice of logic. Thanks, BlueSeats.

NYKBocker wrote:

Panos wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:The problem with D'antoni, or at least my fear of him, isn't just that he doesn't get great defensive effort out of poor defensive players, it's that he doesn't demand that strong defensive players be acquired.

I'll go back to an example used before. I'm not convinced he'd want a Perkins-type big boned, center. I suspect he'd prefer some willowy guy with fast feet who can presumably switch quickly, even if he can't protect the paint or keep someone from backing him down.

Thus we could forever be in the cycle of lamenting how we can't expect great defense from our given roster when he is at cause for the roster we are given.

Finally, a voice of logic. Thanks, BlueSeats.

Didn't he start Timo in the beginning of the season? Didn't he have his staff to continue to work with Timo during the season? Didn't MDA insert Timo back when he was ready and stayed with him until the trade?

I don't think he is against big centers. I think he goes by results. Shelden right now has produced against Dwight. I see MDA giving Shelden more time.

Yo! Timo was always in the plans and in the works. He was being groomed! MDA made this publicly known.

The big fella just wasn't ready and, if he didn't have the Pistons chance, his chance would have dropped a few games later, because he was getting close to being ready.

orangeblobman wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Panos wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:The problem with D'antoni, or at least my fear of him, isn't just that he doesn't get great defensive effort out of poor defensive players, it's that he doesn't demand that strong defensive players be acquired.

I'll go back to an example used before. I'm not convinced he'd want a Perkins-type big boned, center. I suspect he'd prefer some willowy guy with fast feet who can presumably switch quickly, even if he can't protect the paint or keep someone from backing him down.

Thus we could forever be in the cycle of lamenting how we can't expect great defense from our given roster when he is at cause for the roster we are given.

Finally, a voice of logic. Thanks, BlueSeats.

Didn't he start Timo in the beginning of the season? Didn't he have his staff to continue to work with Timo during the season? Didn't MDA insert Timo back when he was ready and stayed with him until the trade?

I don't think he is against big centers. I think he goes by results. Shelden right now has produced against Dwight. I see MDA giving Shelden more time.

Yo! Timo was always in the plans and in the works. He was being groomed! MDA made this publicly known.

The big fella just wasn't ready and, if he didn't have the Pistons chance, his chance would have dropped a few games later, because he was getting close to being ready.

Back to Melo, I think that after a full training camp we'll see a different player. He'll have time to figure out how to blend his game with the system. One thing I do like is that he's shown himself to be a MUCH better passer than many have given him credit for. When he has time to really work in this system he could be a very effective Point Forward at times.

Did you ever consider that playing 100 basketball games between preseason and exhibition is too many?

For guys who are expected to lead every night, that expectation of superior output, night in and night out, is only reserved for a select few, on both offense and defense.

Veteran NBA players may also take the liberty of pacing themselves, or picking their spots. The Knicks have struggled, especially in the fourth quarter. This is something worth taking a closer look at. Could be the result of the coaching staff not setting up the proper closing rotation (struggling with combinations with all the player turnover)?

Stoudemire is worn down and has his legs are wrapped like a Mummy. That is a sign of aching knees. Melo is used to letting his talent do the work. In NYC the demand is much higher.

"Are you not entertained?"

Juice wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:The problem with D'antoni, or at least my fear of him, isn't just that he doesn't get great defensive effort out of poor defensive players, it's that he doesn't demand that strong defensive players be acquired.

I'll go back to an example used before. I'm not convinced he'd want a Perkins-type big boned, center. I suspect he'd prefer some willowy guy with fast feet who can presumably switch quickly, even if he can't protect the paint or keep someone from backing him down.

Thus we could forever be in the cycle of lamenting how we can't expect great defense from our given roster when he is at cause for the roster we are given.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Did the Knicks not try to get Wade and Lebron? Aside from those guys coming, who in particular were they going to get that would come in and lead the team playing great D? It seems to me that most of the time the top players in the league that are most sought after are the guys that score the most. Guys get drafted in the 1st rd. mostly for their offensive ability. How many guys are known more for their defense than anything else that we could've gotten? MOre importantly when has Mike turned down getting someone that can help us defensively? It appears to me that we went and added Jared only for defense, correct? Oh and Mike is the one that really wanted to promote Timo to starting C. He only went away from him when it was clear the kid needed more time. He clearly liked the kid a lot.

I'm suggesting that the system puts a premium on speed, which dictates a certain type of defender, the type that is rarely formidable on the interior. And when you don't protect the paint you're not only vulnerable to penetration, you're less likely to get defensive rebounds. Offensive rebounds perhaps - especially long rebounds from all the missed threes - but less so the crucial interior rebounds that kill us in the 4th quarters.

We had a big that could run the floor in Timo. We could also run with a player like Camby or Tyson Chandler. It's not like we can only play with a big bruiser in order to get what we need in the middle. For goodness sakes D. Howard is a physical specimen that could play in this system. Also there is and has always been a huge halfcourt component to this offense and remember Shaq played under Mike too. My guess is we'll be looking at guys like Deandre Jordan. Big kids that can get up and down.

Melo and STAT have been playing in fast paced offenses. Denver was number 1 and the Knicks number 2 in scoring. So the only reason we aren't running as much now is about Billups and to some extent Melo not knowing the system well enough to execute right now. That won't be the case next year.

Just to clarify on Mozgov. He had 20 dnps coaches decision while he was in NY and averaged 13 minutes a game for the 34 games he got on the court. He was buried on the bench and pubicly sharing how discouraging his situation was in NY before he had his big game in the end of Jan.. Had he not had his huge game when injuries forced him and Randolph into the rotation I don't think he would have made it back onto the court for D'Antoni. I don't think D'Antoni was as committed to playing Moz as you imply but I could be wrong.

It took a Shawne Williams suspension in ATL to get that chance.....10 straight DNP's leading up to that time in Detroit. He made that statement after the embarrassment in L.A. from being dominated by their bigs. Amar'e began to show signs of wearing down end of January. Timo was not PART OF HIS PLANS BY DESIGN. Moreso circumstance and his hand being forced. I already covered this before. He received several DNPs prior to and after the Laker game. Ironically enough he plays him 40min in the Detroit game. How is it a player with tangible qualities as Timo goes from nothing to everything? Even if he was planning on playing him IT'S INCREDIBLY STUPID TO NOT WORK A PLAYER UP TO PLAYING HEAVY MINUTES/ROTATION MINUTES. Keep in mind too our GM had be talking about Big Men needs at the same time and volume as the coach was discussing playing Timo...take a moment to let this sink in.

That's like a person owning an extra car/bike that sits in the garage months of the year. They were driving another car that was performing well earlier in the year but was showing signs it needed a tune up along with winterizing. It was stopping on them in traffic, sputtering when started up every time they got in it, overheating....running high then running low from day-to-day. They had good weather days to drive the other car and bike in the garage but chose not to because it wasn't a vehicle that could get them to New York to California on it's first run. Bish Lips why are you trying to drive it that far on it's first run instead of taking it upstate first or to the Tri-State area or better yet from upper MH to lower MH.

Takes a Dodge Challenger and tries to drive it through the Appalachian Mountains in it's worst climate non stop

Takes a Hummer and tries to drive it on the in it's worst climate Autobahn non stop

That's the problem with this coach he's TOO EXTREME in his approach with his personnel.

Mozgov is a rookie.

He didn't really play much in NY.
He's not playing that much in Denver.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4794/gamelog;_ylt=AuuyiKvvCG7HPATZ639UMhukvLYF

Why is there so much debate about this guys playing time again?