JesseDark wrote:Melo has made it clear that he isn't intersted in the Nets so I would pull out and deal with him in free agency. Why give away the farm if Denver is going to turn around and send these guys to NJ? On the other hand the players we are craving only have us 2 games above .500.

What about if Harris is the PG, Lopez at center, Gallo and Chandler also there, maybe even Mos. I think Felton's selfish play and poor shooting was largely responsible for our fall, Harris would be an upgrade - maybe. Worth seeing. They could turn things around, not to mention if we don't play well, there would be a bit of an uprising against Dolan, some fans would switch to the Brooklyn Nets (not NJ) and if the Knicks didn't improve much, more fans would say F Dolan and just become Brooklyn fans (not NJ).

Seems like some psychological warfare. I think the Nets would be better off with our players than Melo, short term.

Knickoftime wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:That is basically what my reply was going to be. I was born in Brooklyn and brought up there. At face value, no, I won't be a fan of that team (when they move), but if Dolan does F up the deal and ends up sending half our team there, I very well may be a dual fan. And, depending on if Dolan destroys the team further, I wouldn't root at all. If you don't like what a corporation is doing, simply boycott the product. Money talks in their world.

Problem is even if you did follow through, you're be relatively by your lonesome.

The Knicks were for a decade, without any hint of hyperbole, the worst run organization in professional sports, and the money never talked.

So fans are going to leave NOW, if Mosgov is traded? Really? After Marbury and Isiah, Curry and Jerome James, Timofey Mosgov is the tipping point for tens of thousands of fans?

C'mon...

And this all said, I neither think Mosgov should be or will be traded.

No, this does not effect the here and now.

Its about what happens when the Stat-Melo team does not deliver the potential while Nets build momentum.

For years Kobe and lebron got cheers in the Garden. Knicks make a chunk of money as long as they are relevant.

Relevant does not mean championship.

Nalod wrote:He bid up Knicks price.

No, not really.

Again, this entire conclusion is predicated on the assumption Denver was EVER going to accept a low-ball offer, or that Anthony would eventually choose free agency. Neither of which is an established fact and there is some doubt about both.

Knicks are negotiating against the Nets less than people think, it's just a sexier narrative.

This is REALLY between the Knicks, Nuggets and Anthony. Always has been.

The billboard, this trade, its all part of the big scheme to get in dolans head and beat him. Or Dolan beats himself! Even if he does not get melo he loses a battle but weakens the enemy which helps him win the war.

LOL.

This is the organization that scared off Rod Thorn, struck out with every big name free agent, gave $57m to Travis Outlaw, Jordan Farmar and Johan Petro as a response, and hired a coach that clashes with his best player.

His brilliance must be so far above mere mortal standards that it even escapes me.

Knickoftime wrote:

Nalod wrote:He bid up Knicks price.

No, not really.

Again, this entire conclusion is predicated on the assumption Denver was EVER going to accept a low-ball offer, or that Anthony would eventually choose free agency. Neither of which is an established fact and there is some doubt about both.

Knicks are negotiating against the Nets less than people think, it's just a sexier narrative.

This is REALLY between the Knicks, Nuggets and Anthony. Always has been.

The billboard, this trade, its all part of the big scheme to get in dolans head and beat him. Or Dolan beats himself! Even if he does not get melo he loses a battle but weakens the enemy which helps him win the war.

LOL.

This is the organization that scared off Rod Thorn, struck out with every big name free agent, gave $57m to Travis Outlaw, Jordan Farmar and Johan Petro as a response, and hired a coach that clashes with his best player.

His brilliance must be so far above mere mortal standards that it even escapes me.

The Nuggetts joined by the Nets have been playing the Knicks and Melo since the beginning, IMO. It now is so obvious and all of the happenings are now making sense. It's been a charade to get the Knicks to give up more of our younger players and then the Nets can use their draft picks to get our players from Denver. Our players are good building blocks. Also, and a BIG Also, our players are well-liked in this city and NJ would get instant fans. It would totally one-up the Knicks and give the Nets a ton of free positive publicity. Just like they tried to do with their billboard across from MSG.

Prokorov will destroy little Jimmy with his shrewd negotiations. Jimmy better get his old man involved because he is getting played, conned and raped so badly. And we as fans will suffer.

islesfan wrote:You gotta admit, this is pretty damn funny. The Mad Russian is working Dolan and Isiah on the "short con", while he sets them up for the "long con". You have to respect that a lot. Would it surprise anybody if Prokhorov's 5 year plan includes taking Cablevision away from Dolan just for fun? One can only hope.

Dolan as Doyle Lonnegan, I like it.

Knickoftime wrote:

Markji wrote:The Nuggetts joined by the Nets have been playing the Knicks and Melo since the beginning. It's been a charade to get the Knicks to give up more of our younger players and then the Nets can use their draft picks to get our players from Denver.

There is an inherent assumption so steeped in this conclusion that at some of your are utterly and completely blind to it. The entire premise of your assumption is based on an unestablished fact - that the Nuggets were ever going to accept a deal that netted them restricted free agent Wilson Chandler and Anthony Randolph (or some weakish, lottery protected first in his place).

And this is where you all fail.

The Knicks part of the equation has always been the same - offer a package the Nuggets would say yes to.

For about 8 months now writers of every persuasion have made it clear Denver didn't want to deal with the Knicks and that they weren't enamored of the Knicks young players, yet fans ignored this, wrote it off as posturing.

There isn't a writer who has written about this that hasn't made it VERY clear Anthony was never going to test free agency, but some of your chose to ignore this as well.

I'm not discounting the Nets. Because Anthony is apparently willing to go there as a LAST resort, their presence has value to the Nuggets, but nothing Prokhorov has done other than try to trade for Anthony too have gotten the Knicks to up their price. The Knicks upped their price because the Nuggets were never going to say yes otherwise.

Plain and simple.

Our players are good building blocks.

Internal logic is failing you.

If the Nuggets are contemplating trading these good building blocks for picks, doesn't this confirm that the Nuggets were never enamored with them in the first place?

Also, and a BIG Also, our players are well-liked in this city and NJ would get instant fans. It would totally one-up the Knicks and give the Nets a ton of free positive publicity. Just like they tried to do with their billboard across from MSG.

Which did what for them exactly? How many of their 17 wins was the positive publicity directly responsible for.

This is the difference between being a fan of basketball and being a fan of being a fan.

Nets haven't done a positive thing on the basketball side of things since the day Prokhorov arrived, but because you think he won a news cycle or two that he's taking the town by storm.

And you don't even seem to realize it.

First, I didn't say to make them a lowball offer. In other places I usually stated to make a fair offer.
The Nuggetts and Nets know that Melo only wants the Knicks. Both want the Knicks to give more. And it is a coup if the Nets wind up with Gallinari or Mozgov. A big plus for the Nets to establish themselves as a major league player/negotiator as an NBA Franchise.

Prokorov did do things to get the Knicks to up their offer. He even publically stated that.

Lastly, and on this I hope I am wrong, but which NBA team do you root for? and/or possibly work for or have some interest in? I say this because you are very well-informed and knowledgeable; write extremely well; are very prolific; are a new poster here on UK, and are taking over this board and refuting everyone who says anything against this trade. It just reminds me of reading a stock message board where shorters use the same tactics to promote their point of view and drive down a stock. Again, I do apologize if this is off, and I don't mean any harm. This kind of just jumped out at me and so I thought to enquire.

martin wrote:...Also, for me Billups/Felton switch is short term better for Knicks but after a year IMHO Felton is the better asset.

As a player, certainly Felton has more upside and a better fit for MDA's system. But...

If we retain Billups then he becomes a valuable expiring in our efforts to land DeRon or CP3, more valuable than Felton's deal for teams looking to shed salary.

Moonangie wrote:

martin wrote:...Also, for me Billups/Felton switch is short term better for Knicks but after a year IMHO Felton is the better asset.

As a player, certainly Felton has more upside and a better fit for MDA's system. But...

If we retain Billups then he becomes a valuable expiring in our efforts to land DeRon or CP3, more valuable than Felton's deal for teams looking to shed salary.

I never understood how though. Help me make that work.

The exchange has to be Billups+? for CP3/Deron+?. How do you fill in the ?'s that would make that deal palatable for either NO or Utah? Billups makes $14M and CP3/Deron make $16M. What more from NY could you include that would entice either team? Who is left on the Knicks? Fields? Williams? Picks (2016, cause 2012 gone and 2014 gone)?

Markji wrote:First, I didn't say to make them a lowball offer. In other places I usually stated to make a fair offer.

Which is what exactly?

The Nuggetts and Nets know that Melo only wants the Knicks. Both want the Knicks to give more. And it is a coup if the Nets wind up with Gallinari or Mozgov. A big plus for the Nets to establish themselves as a major league player/negotiator as an NBA Franchise.

Two things wrong here.

Most importantly you're now arguing assuming the Nuggets WILL get Gallinari and Mosgov, and than the Nets will get them. That has not been established. The only reports I've seen is that's what the Nuggets are asking for, and given it's still 3 days until the deadline, why they hell wouldn't they?

Secondly, when exactly did the Gallinari and Mosgov (in particular) become these sought after commodities? Denver, for one, apparently doesn't want them.

And you don't think if Denver values draft picks, the Knicks aren't out there looking at the other 27 NBA teams, seeing if Chandler/Gallinari/Mosgov can net them something Denver wants more?

You're entitled to think highly of those players and you might be right, but you're transposing your regard for them on the rest of the NBA, assuming the NBA community is going to think Prokhorov pulled off some huge coup.

Prokorov did do things to get the Knicks to up their offer. He even publically stated that.

Yes, he also released statements saying he wasn't getting into the 'Melo negotiations again, and he wasn't meeting 'Melo in LA over the weekend.

He also made it clear to the MSNBC reporter that he was going heloskiiing today. This is a man apparently very concerned about his image in the media.

So Prokorov spins not getting Anthony for the media and you buy into HIS version of events hook, line and sinker?

I'll ask again, how did he get the Knicks to raise their offer?

Knicks offer was what? (a), and Prokorov got them to raise it to (b)?

Spell out what (a) and (b) are exactly?

Lastly, and on this I hope I am wrong, but which NBA team do you root for?

Is this a trick question? :-)

I'm a Knicks fans, who happens to be a self-employed writer who has NO professional connection with the NBA or sports in general.

BlueSeats can vouch for me. If I'm not some plant. If I was, my diabolical play started 5 years ago on another KNicks forum.

Again, I do apologize if this is off, and I don't mean any harm. This kind of just jumped out at me and so I thought to enquire.

No problem. I'm impossible to offend. I'm just having fun and like to go at it and don't mind if I get it back in return.

And that said, let me add one other thing.

The Knicks offer? For months we've heard Chandler/Curry/Randolph (or draft pick swap).

If this truly was the Knicks offer, and made months ago, what can we all conclude for certain?

Anyone...?

That it was NOT their last, best offer. It was their opening offer. Which means unless Donnie Walsh is a buffoon, Knicks were always prepared to go higher. Walsh knew it, D'Antoni knew it.

Honestly, I'm fully expecting the trade as reported (minus Mozgov) to go down. What Denver decides to do with what they get I don't care.

Frankly, at the end of the day, i think the Knicks are being more sly than anyone is giving them credit for.

They always knew they weren't getting outta dodge just giving up Chandler. But what does all the Dolan/Isiah, Walsh/D'Antoni stuff do?

A: It creates the impression that Denver is taking advantage of the Knicks and getting something out of them they might not get otherwise.

This was Scott Boras' tactic during the A-Rod thing a few years back. He got the media believing A-Rod was pissed at him and he made a big mistake and that A-Rod broke free of his influence and went to the Yankees with hat in hand.

Then the Yankees put the largest professional sports contract in history in his hat.

THAT's how you do it.

Knicks were always prepared to go higher than Chandler/Anthony, and the logical additional was Gallinari. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.

Which means it's very possible the Knicks will come away with exactly what they wanted for the price they were always willing to pay.

If the Knicks are sacrificing a few news cycles to solidify the move they want to make, they're winning the war, even if some of the media and fans aren't savvy enough to recognize it.