Silverfuel wrote:
It depends on the situation. I don't know what kind of offers Donnie Walsh is fielding. I don't know his options and I don't know his contingency plans. IMO, none of us do. But like TMS says in all his posts, no one will advocate gutting the team. Thats where I am going to rely on DWs negotiating skills. This trade needs to happen because until then, his 3 year plan is incomplete.

I know the front office is reading this forum so I hope they are keeping count.

On the one hand you say "this trade needs to happen." while on the other, you suggest that the right price is up to Donnie Walsh to negotiate. If Donnie can't afford to lose the deal how can he possibly negotiate the "right" price. To negotiate well it is essential to be able to demonstrate your willingness to walk away from the deal. If Donnie can't afford to lose this deal, how can you be confident that he will be able to negotiate the "right price"?

We simply don't know how good Gallo, Fields and Randolph and Mosgov will become. But we do know that players like David Lee substantially improved 4 years in a row and all four of our young players have substantial upside from here. If two of the four improve similarly to David Lee, we would have a hell of a team. No one knows whether Melo will fit in gracefully with the style of play that the Knicks currently employ or not. Melo may be a superstar, but there are still a lot of question marks about his fit within the Knicks team. Will he be a defensive liability? Will he ever become an unselfish passer? Will he be willing to cut down on the number of shot attempts he takes a game? Will he be willing to take a pay cut similar to what Lebron, Wade and Bosh did? Will he ever become an efficient 3 point shooter?

You say "this trade needs to happen" without knowing what the trade actually is. Signing a second super star appears to be a "slam dunk" idea for you. But if you are willing to say yes without knowing what the actual price is, I think you are saying yes without enough information to really evaluate the transaction completely.

TMS wrote:Gallinari, Felton, starter (Wilson), Curry, pick for Melo & Billups & some of you think that's a bad deal for the Knicks???

C - Mozgov
PF - Amare
SF - Melo
SG - Fields
PG - Billups
6 - Douglas
7 - Williams
8 - Turiaf
9 - Walker
10 - AR
11 - Rautins
12 - Mason
----------
13 - Buike

how is that not a huge upgrade over what we have now??? Billups is still playing at a pretty high level, he's not the Allstar he used to be but he's still effective & just as much of a leader as Felton... he's more suited to a slower pace game at this point in his career but he's only a 1 year stopgap, in 2012 we'd have the option to target CP3 or Deron Williams in free agency depending on what the new CBA entails... meanwhile we're able to hold onto 2 of our 4 top young talents & also Mozgov & TD how is that gutting the team??? i have no idea what you people expect to give up in a Melo trade if you're not willing to part with talent to get talent then you don't deserve any.

who says Wilson is the other starter they'd want? everything we've heard would lead me to believe they'd want Landry or Mozgov.

to which I say: heck no to Landry and buh-bye Mozgov.

i don't think Mozgov is the long-term answer at center, but i do think Landry is the long-term answer at SG.

fishmike wrote:Knicks could get him now if the deal is right.

Say Knicks offer Fields, Chandler, Curry, cash, their own 2013 first rounder and another first rounder for AR or AR himself (whichever Denver wants) for Melo.

Lets say Denver is close but wont do it without more cap relief, so we add Azubuke and they add Harrington's horrific contract.

Knicks end up with this:
PG Felton 26
SG Melo 26
SF Gallo 22
PF Amare 28
C Mosgov 24
Bench: Harrington, Douglas, Williams, Turiaf

I'm thinking of this starting core as long term, 3-4 years of that starting group. It still had good young legs, star power, great size at every position. Melo (or Gallo) is a position away at SG, but we have seen Gallo guard wings very well, and when you look at their games this is a positive for the Knicks, not a drawback (as opposed to Spree playing the 3).

After that your looking at Walsh doing his thing with the draft and FAs as he try to rebuilds the pipeline and stocks up assets. Even if he never lands another Fields or Mosgov your still looking like a top team in the east

I don't want Gallo and Melo starting side by side - I'd rather start Fields at SG and Melo at SF.

I think Fields is more important if Melo is here than Gallo is.

Gallo
Felton
Chandler
Curry
AR = 1st round pick

is really just trading Gallo/Felton/Curry/AR (1st rounder) for Melo and Billups.

Not a terrible deal. Billups is old but still a great shooter and a veteran of some playoff wars. His $ comes off the books in time to pursue CP3/Deron Williams/Dwight Howard. The only harm is if we whiff on CP3 and Deron Williams, Billups walks and we can't find anything close to Felton at $7M. But Felton was either going to walk or demand a raise after next season, no?

Question:

If we sign Melo as a FA, is there a scenario where we don't renounce Chandler outright but somehow use him in a sign and trade? If so then the cost of getting Melo + Billups is

Gallo
Felton
Curry
AR = 1st round pick

AND

whatever we could have gotten for Chandler in a sign and trade..

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Even if the Knicks sign Melo as a FA, that means Chandler has to go so trading

Gallo
Felton
Chandler
Curry
AR = 1st round pick

is really just trading Gallo/Felton/Curry/AR (1st rounder) for Melo and Billups.

Not a terrible deal. Billups is old but still a great shooter and a veteran of some playoff wars. His $ comes off the books in time to pursue CP3/Deron Williams/Dwight Howard. The only harm is if we whiff on CP3 and Deron Williams, Billups walks and we can't find anything close to Felton at $7M. But Felton was either going to walk or demand a raise after next season, no?

Question:

If we sign Melo as a FA, is there a scenario where we don't renounce Chandler outright but somehow use him in a sign and trade? If so then the cost of getting Melo + Billups is

Gallo
Felton
Curry
AR = 1st round pick

AND

whatever we could have gotten for Chandler in a sign and trade..

can't we just buy a 1st round pick for cash? i'd much rather keep him & try to deal him in a different deal to upgrade our C position, or see if MDA will ever come to his senses & actually play the kid some meaningful minutes this year... i think he'd be awesome playing with Melo & Amare too

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Question:

If we sign Melo as a FA, is there a scenario where we don't renounce Chandler outright but somehow use him in a sign and trade? If so then the cost of getting Melo + Billups is

Gallo
Felton
Curry
AR = 1st round pick

AND

whatever we could have gotten for Chandler in a sign and trade..

i see Chandler as being this year's version of David Lee. i think if things are lined up and done in the right sequence we can get assets back for Chandler while also signing Melo. this is where you have to trust the front office can get it done. and this is why you can't underestimate the power of cap space. we are still very flexible.

if Chandler has multiple suitors and one is willing to work with the Knicks to get him that extra year on his deal, then we can capitalize and get assets (i'm thinking future first rounder).

i cannot endorse trading for melo when we are poised to capitalize on the flexibility we suffered 2 lost seasons to acquire. why rush now when we've been so patient up until this point?

Better for us to get him as a FA, and I really don't want to lose the players being talked about (especially Gallo and Fields), but I not going to sweat this thing anymore. If it happens, it happens.

I don't think that getting Melo for 3 of our starters will make much of a difference this year, unless you have a solid defender in the middle. If folks really think that Amare at C and Melo at PF will work, you are in for a surprise- if you think we lack D now, just wait when any 2 of Gallo, Chandler, and Fields are gone.

Amare is a pretty poor 1/1 defender, with little if any lateral movement after the first step. A good help defender as a shot-blocker, but poor in the post or on the perimeter. Melo is also very inconsistent on D. Without a proven shot blocker (a Camby type player), our D will be shredded by any team with guys who can take it to the basket.

Include Felton in a swap for Billups, and you have even more trouble on D, even though Felton has not been the perimeter defender I thought he was.

Nevertheless, I don't think we should be going crazy over this at this point. Things are going to happen as the happen, no matter what any of us want.

They vested somthing to make it happen.

Melo has an opportunity to do similar.

Question is he willing?

If he opts out this team has assets to play and trade.

You can trade for Paul with assets.

Paul can force a similar issue to threaten to walk vs. forcing a trade. It would be ugly though.

Melo wiling to walk in a lock out?

TMS wrote:

abs wrote:i would rather keep gallo has alot more upside based on his size, shooting, passing, defensive ability and will get alot wider and stronger in two yrs and be a real load to deal with both outside driving to basket and posting up...fields nice player more easy to duplicate skill set every day in nba not really a 2 guard either doesnt dribble and breakdown defenders well enough off dribble and not a pure shooter...yes will get better at all above but dont see him becoming all star def could see gallo all star by 24 and for next 10 yrs after...

Gallo won't have the scoring opportunities to be an allstar playing with Amare, Melo & Billups IMO... he'd be playing more of a supplementary role... Fields has already shown he can be highly effective w/o having any types of plays called for him... Gallo tends to disappear if he's not contributing on the offensive end.

TMS wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:One of the great things about having an experienced GM is he isn't gonna get ants in his pants. or in his 'depends.' He wont rush, he'l stand pat and we'll get him for the right price. Im confident of that.

Donnie has played this right so far, let's just hope he doesn't screw it up because he's too scared to part with untouchables like Timo Mozgov

Honestly, my biggest concern is MDA. I'm concerend that MDA feels a certain comfort level with this group because most of them fit into his spread the floor, open the middle and chuck 3's style of play. Regardless of wins and losses, I think MDA might be married to certain players (Gallo?) and he may use the trade rumors as a way to excuse the bad play of late when really we are just not that talented. I'm hopeful that Walsh will listen but ultimately will do his job (as a GM) and get Melo because its the right move regardless of what MDA has to say.