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OT Egypt
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earthmansurfer
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2/2/2011  2:04 PM
orangeblobman wrote:
simrud wrote:So I suppose we have to agree that we consider each other total morons. Cool - I expected this anyways, these arguments usually turn out that way I suppose. Don't know why I bother to talk sense with guys like you, its always the same thing. Some version of you don't get the situation as well as I do and a refusal to talk about specific aspects of the situation.

Fact is, you have a set of opinoins formed by the liberal intellectual elite that you don't really understand, and thus are not able to partake in an intelligent discussion. So you are convinced of things by somebody you consider an authority, yet are not able to articulate your position to any degree.

+1

I think Jesus said "don't throw jewels in front of swine", or something to that effect.

First, Simrud, you mentioned a liberal intellectual elite... I wish we were so lucky. This is partly about an intelligent discussion, but we can't forget the heart as well. The mind won't ever take us there.

Second, Orangeblobman, if you want to quote Jesus, please do him some justice. When talking about equality (Egypt and the other protests), why not try the following: "So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

The situation in Egypt should not be about ideologies (here) and what is best for "us" (politically and economically speaking), rather about equality and dare I say, again, Love.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
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nykshaknbake
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2/2/2011  2:07 PM
I don't think you can play equivalency between a democratic gov't and a Muslim theocracy. There may not be one right way but there are ways that clearly don't work at all and ways that have a negative impact. It's nice to think that every way is equally right and that if it doesn't seem so its because we don't see the whole picture or are conceited or ignorant. It's more than asset allocation though, but rather one of ideology and control of the people and speech.
SupremeCommander wrote:
simrud wrote:I would like to think that something good will come out of this, but history points in the other direction.

If the current regime does fall, there will be a power vacum. Only organization with capability to fill this vacum is the Muslim Brotherhood.

Now, some of you liberal folk will aruge that they are really a nice organization that does charity work etc., and I will not even bother to argue because it is a waste of time. I will just say one thing, everybody will regreat it for decades to come if they do in fact come to control Egypt or any other Arab country for that matter.

I don't agree with you one bit. You are assuming that there is a right way for the people to organize themselves. We have a democratic state. They have the Muslim religion. Our government promotes the separation of church and state. The Islamic people believe it is impossible to separate their religion from their actions.

The issue has absolutely nothing to do with relgion or being secular. What it has to do with is the alloction and distribution of assets and wealth. The lack of developed social institutions to promote a middle class. A lack of a functioning legal system and an enforcement system whose task it is to maintain status quo.

What does any of this has to do with how people worship and the value of their religion?

Paladin55
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2/2/2011  2:27 PM
PresIke wrote:terrible turn of events right now...

these co-called "pro-government" protesters (more like beneficiaries of mubarak's regime) just showed up out of nowhere, and what do you know...inciting violence...

probably trying to get the military to get involved and shut everything down for the "sake of stability"

horrible.

the u.n. secratary general just said that attacking non-violent protesters is wrong...the suggestion is that this may be a comment on mubarak's regime or beneficiaries of his power being behind this...

Classic approach to dealing with a movement that is doing its best to be peaceful and seems to be having success.

I heard a report on NPR the other day where the protestors picked up a guy with a gun at one of their checkpoints and took him to the military.

It would be terrible, but not unprecedented, if government backed provocateurs destroyed this protest movment.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Paladin55
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2/2/2011  2:29 PM
simrud wrote:I see this situation as very similar to Iran prior to their islamic revolution. Iran's poplation, at least the urban part of it, was, and still is, highly educated and liberal.

What happened there was what often happens with revolutions, the most radical element of the movement took control by doing whatever it took to acomplish their goals while the other parts of the revolutionary moevement wasted their time debating, etc.

Same thing happened in Russia during what later became known as the "Communist" revolution. Communinsts were a minority part of the revolutionary movement, but because they were the most violent and decisive group, they took control of both the revolution and eventually the country.

Mulsim Brotherhood supporters are already calling El-Baradei a "donkey of the revolution" on the streets of Cario - meaning they view him, and the rest of actual majority of the protesters as a tool they would use to get where the Brotherhood wants to be.

They might also be doing this because they have been pushed out of the spotlight by a movement they did not sponsor.

Sounds like face-saving, my friend.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
nykshaknbake
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2/2/2011  2:33 PM
What's going to happen now that you have gov't goons picking fights with the protesters is that Muburak will now say he cannot step down and abndon his country in time of violence and strife. The military will step in to quell the fighting and people will lose their lives.
SupremeCommander
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2/2/2011  2:41 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:I don't think you can play equivalency between a democratic gov't and a Muslim theocracy. There may not be one right way but there are ways that clearly don't work at all and ways that have a negative impact. It's nice to think that every way is equally right and that if it doesn't seem so its because we don't see the whole picture or are conceited or ignorant. It's more than asset allocation though, but rather one of ideology and control of the people and speech.
SupremeCommander wrote:
simrud wrote:I would like to think that something good will come out of this, but history points in the other direction.

If the current regime does fall, there will be a power vacum. Only organization with capability to fill this vacum is the Muslim Brotherhood.

Now, some of you liberal folk will aruge that they are really a nice organization that does charity work etc., and I will not even bother to argue because it is a waste of time. I will just say one thing, everybody will regreat it for decades to come if they do in fact come to control Egypt or any other Arab country for that matter.

I don't agree with you one bit. You are assuming that there is a right way for the people to organize themselves. We have a democratic state. They have the Muslim religion. Our government promotes the separation of church and state. The Islamic people believe it is impossible to separate their religion from their actions.

The issue has absolutely nothing to do with relgion or being secular. What it has to do with is the alloction and distribution of assets and wealth. The lack of developed social institutions to promote a middle class. A lack of a functioning legal system and an enforcement system whose task it is to maintain status quo.

What does any of this has to do with how people worship and the value of their religion?

Okay, someone I can have a discussion with!

I disagree that Egypt is a Muslim theocracy. I'll start with that.

I do agree that you cannot make parallels between a democratic government and a theocracy. Our democracy was born from Christian feudalism. And how many centuries ago is that? The current pan-Arab system is antiquated and needs to be overhauled. I am not suggesting the status quo is appropriate, sufficient, or acceptable.

What I do believe is that a Western democracy is not the only answer. That opposite position is decidedly the antithesis of post-modern. What I am suggesting is you don't strip something as socially and culturally important as The Call to Worship from the lives of these people—as they are people. I am suggesting that the model or blue print that should be followed is Eastern, as countries like Japan modernized without completely acquiescing to "the Imperialists."

There are ways to fix the problem by focussing on the development of social institutions, as opposed to ripping the moral fabric from these people and replacing it with American denim

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
nykshaknbake
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2/2/2011  2:52 PM
Agreed that Egypt isn't a theocracy now. It's more of a traditional dictatorship. The fear is that it could become a Muslim theocracy when the dust settles. Much like the one in Iran. Not saying that is what will happen but if it does it will make the region even more volatile than it already is. Something in between maybe ideal maybe like Turkey has now where its basically a secular islamic state. Though more likley is that if the Muslim brotherhood takes over is that we have a radical regime that supresses all non-Muslims. I.e. Sudan, Iran.

SupremeCommander wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:I don't think you can play equivalency between a democratic gov't and a Muslim theocracy. There may not be one right way but there are ways that clearly don't work at all and ways that have a negative impact. It's nice to think that every way is equally right and that if it doesn't seem so its because we don't see the whole picture or are conceited or ignorant. It's more than asset allocation though, but rather one of ideology and control of the people and speech.
SupremeCommander wrote:
simrud wrote:I would like to think that something good will come out of this, but history points in the other direction.

If the current regime does fall, there will be a power vacum. Only organization with capability to fill this vacum is the Muslim Brotherhood.

Now, some of you liberal folk will aruge that they are really a nice organization that does charity work etc., and I will not even bother to argue because it is a waste of time. I will just say one thing, everybody will regreat it for decades to come if they do in fact come to control Egypt or any other Arab country for that matter.

I don't agree with you one bit. You are assuming that there is a right way for the people to organize themselves. We have a democratic state. They have the Muslim religion. Our government promotes the separation of church and state. The Islamic people believe it is impossible to separate their religion from their actions.

The issue has absolutely nothing to do with relgion or being secular. What it has to do with is the alloction and distribution of assets and wealth. The lack of developed social institutions to promote a middle class. A lack of a functioning legal system and an enforcement system whose task it is to maintain status quo.

What does any of this has to do with how people worship and the value of their religion?

Okay, someone I can have a discussion with!

I disagree that Egypt is a Muslim theocracy. I'll start with that.

I do agree that you cannot make parallels between a democratic government and a theocracy. Our democracy was born from Christian feudalism. And how many centuries ago is that? The current pan-Arab system is antiquated and needs to be overhauled. I am not suggesting the status quo is appropriate, sufficient, or acceptable.

What I do believe is that a Western democracy is not the only answer. That opposite position is decidedly the antithesis of post-modern. What I am suggesting is you don't strip something as socially and culturally important as The Call to Worship from the lives of these people—as they are people. I am suggesting that the model or blue print that should be followed is Eastern, as countries like Japan modernized without completely acquiescing to "the Imperialists."

There are ways to fix the problem by focussing on the development of social institutions, as opposed to ripping the moral fabric from these people and replacing it with American denim

SupremeCommander
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2/2/2011  3:33 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:Agreed that Egypt isn't a theocracy now. It's more of a traditional dictatorship. The fear is that it could become a Muslim theocracy when the dust settles. Much like the one in Iran. Not saying that is what will happen but if it does it will make the region even more volatile than it already is. Something in between maybe ideal maybe like Turkey has now where its basically a secular islamic state. Though more likley is that if the Muslim brotherhood takes over is that we have a radical regime that supresses all non-Muslims. I.e. Sudan, Iran.

SupremeCommander wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:I don't think you can play equivalency between a democratic gov't and a Muslim theocracy. There may not be one right way but there are ways that clearly don't work at all and ways that have a negative impact. It's nice to think that every way is equally right and that if it doesn't seem so its because we don't see the whole picture or are conceited or ignorant. It's more than asset allocation though, but rather one of ideology and control of the people and speech.
SupremeCommander wrote:
simrud wrote:I would like to think that something good will come out of this, but history points in the other direction.

If the current regime does fall, there will be a power vacum. Only organization with capability to fill this vacum is the Muslim Brotherhood.

Now, some of you liberal folk will aruge that they are really a nice organization that does charity work etc., and I will not even bother to argue because it is a waste of time. I will just say one thing, everybody will regreat it for decades to come if they do in fact come to control Egypt or any other Arab country for that matter.

I don't agree with you one bit. You are assuming that there is a right way for the people to organize themselves. We have a democratic state. They have the Muslim religion. Our government promotes the separation of church and state. The Islamic people believe it is impossible to separate their religion from their actions.

The issue has absolutely nothing to do with relgion or being secular. What it has to do with is the alloction and distribution of assets and wealth. The lack of developed social institutions to promote a middle class. A lack of a functioning legal system and an enforcement system whose task it is to maintain status quo.

What does any of this has to do with how people worship and the value of their religion?

Okay, someone I can have a discussion with!

I disagree that Egypt is a Muslim theocracy. I'll start with that.

I do agree that you cannot make parallels between a democratic government and a theocracy. Our democracy was born from Christian feudalism. And how many centuries ago is that? The current pan-Arab system is antiquated and needs to be overhauled. I am not suggesting the status quo is appropriate, sufficient, or acceptable.

What I do believe is that a Western democracy is not the only answer. That opposite position is decidedly the antithesis of post-modern. What I am suggesting is you don't strip something as socially and culturally important as The Call to Worship from the lives of these people—as they are people. I am suggesting that the model or blue print that should be followed is Eastern, as countries like Japan modernized without completely acquiescing to "the Imperialists."

There are ways to fix the problem by focussing on the development of social institutions, as opposed to ripping the moral fabric from these people and replacing it with American denim

I understand the fears. But I think getting involved is bad for our brand right now. How is that democracy doing in Afghanistan? Our government succeeded here for unique cultural reasons. Without the appropriate social instituions a democracy is rather easy to subject to fraud. You vaote someone in and then they control the political economy, the police, and the armed forces. And that's it.

The root of these protests and demonstrations are so the people get what they want. I have faith that people risking their physical safety are not going to trade one guy's corrupt interests for another's. Whoever or whatever gets installed, will have to represent the consituency that is clamoring for a SIGNIFICANTLY bigger piece of the pie. I think letting it play out will result in a net gain.

(I do think its funny I got labelled a "liberal" before. I suppose I do put high value in people's welfare. But I am more libertarian as opposed to authoritarian in my governmental views. For the most part I want them to stay the eff out of my business and affairs. I mean, I'm a corporate whore for Christ's sake. I'm not saving the manitees)

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Paladin55
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2/2/2011  5:21 PM
Hopefully the movement for democracy has a leadership framework with people who can handle the responsibilities they may be handed if they succeed.

My fear is than an established group such as the Muslim Brotherhood can use their organization and established leaders to take advantage during a time of turmoil.

Also- I don't know much about the class structure in Egypt, but you hope that the protest has the support of the rural communities, which tend to have more conservative views historically.

A middle class/student/professional "revolution" may not work if their aspirations don't appeal to majority of the population.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
SupremeCommander
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2/2/2011  5:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/2/2011  5:45 PM
Paladin55 wrote:My fear is than an established group such as the Muslim Brotherhood can use their organization and established leaders to take advantage during a time of turmoil.

In the past, yes, but now I don't think it's as concerning (though hardly concern-free). Like Libya, Egypt is economcally more viable than its neighbors. I worked on an $80 billion housing and infrastructure development program in Libya. The question we all asked is "why such a great expense now?" and the answer I like the best was: this is the information age and now, there are very well-to-do Arab cities, and the people saw this on satellite TV and the web and started to demand similar. I don't think Libya revolted, but I do believe the program was a premptive manaveur to avoid what's happening in the neighboring countries. The people want the pie readjusted.

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
JohnWallace44
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2/2/2011  6:13 PM
I was watching this today and crowds were throwing fire bombs at eachother. I mean... that's some next level stuff.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
SupremeCommander
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2/2/2011  6:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/2/2011  6:18 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:I was watching this today and crowds were throwing fire bombs at eachother. I mean... that's some next level stuff.

yup. I don't think The People are going to allow someone to ascend that misrepresents their interests

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
simrud
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2/2/2011  7:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/2/2011  7:41 PM
What does it mean "The People"? There is no such thing. There are factions with specific interests. In Egypt they would for example be, Coptic Christians, Muslim Brothehood members, the army (more the officers really), etc.

In any nation, its only about 10% that really get invovled in a revolution type of event. The rest are just not active or intelligent enough to care about anything beyond food and safety. It is very easy for the most powerfull faction to dispense with the rest of 10 pecenters and direct the country in whatever direction they want to.

I do agree with you that our way of governance might not be ideal for an Arab soceity at this point in time however. Which is exaclty why a guy like Mubarak just may be the best they can have for now. In Turkey, the secualr set up was made possble by Ataturk's very deliberate and bloody when necessary eradication of the clerical influence. And look what's happening now, just a couple of generations later, Ataturks's acomplishments are already being sistematically dismantled by the Islamists.

A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
loweyecue
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2/2/2011  8:34 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:Agreed that Egypt isn't a theocracy now. It's more of a traditional dictatorship. The fear is that it could become a Muslim theocracy when the dust settles. Much like the one in Iran. Not saying that is what will happen but if it does it will make the region even more volatile than it already is. Something in between maybe ideal maybe like Turkey has now where its basically a secular islamic state. Though more likley is that if the Muslim brotherhood takes over is that we have a radical regime that supresses all non-Muslims. I.e. Sudan, Iran.

SupremeCommander wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:I don't think you can play equivalency between a democratic gov't and a Muslim theocracy. There may not be one right way but there are ways that clearly don't work at all and ways that have a negative impact. It's nice to think that every way is equally right and that if it doesn't seem so its because we don't see the whole picture or are conceited or ignorant. It's more than asset allocation though, but rather one of ideology and control of the people and speech.
SupremeCommander wrote:
simrud wrote:I would like to think that something good will come out of this, but history points in the other direction.

If the current regime does fall, there will be a power vacum. Only organization with capability to fill this vacum is the Muslim Brotherhood.

Now, some of you liberal folk will aruge that they are really a nice organization that does charity work etc., and I will not even bother to argue because it is a waste of time. I will just say one thing, everybody will regreat it for decades to come if they do in fact come to control Egypt or any other Arab country for that matter.

I don't agree with you one bit. You are assuming that there is a right way for the people to organize themselves. We have a democratic state. They have the Muslim religion. Our government promotes the separation of church and state. The Islamic people believe it is impossible to separate their religion from their actions.

The issue has absolutely nothing to do with relgion or being secular. What it has to do with is the alloction and distribution of assets and wealth. The lack of developed social institutions to promote a middle class. A lack of a functioning legal system and an enforcement system whose task it is to maintain status quo.

What does any of this has to do with how people worship and the value of their religion?

Okay, someone I can have a discussion with!

I disagree that Egypt is a Muslim theocracy. I'll start with that.

I do agree that you cannot make parallels between a democratic government and a theocracy. Our democracy was born from Christian feudalism. And how many centuries ago is that? The current pan-Arab system is antiquated and needs to be overhauled. I am not suggesting the status quo is appropriate, sufficient, or acceptable.

What I do believe is that a Western democracy is not the only answer. That opposite position is decidedly the antithesis of post-modern. What I am suggesting is you don't strip something as socially and culturally important as The Call to Worship from the lives of these people—as they are people. I am suggesting that the model or blue print that should be followed is Eastern, as countries like Japan modernized without completely acquiescing to "the Imperialists."

There are ways to fix the problem by focussing on the development of social institutions, as opposed to ripping the moral fabric from these people and replacing it with American denim

A muslim theocracy isn't by definition radical or suupressive but the ones in your example are. I don't know if there is a good example of a moderate muslim theocracy but would definitely think its possible. Clearly there is middle ground between dictatorship and democracy and it's up to these nations to find that. I hope they can get there peacefully through dialougue rather than through bloodshed, but there isn't any encouraging evidence to suggest that is possible.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
SupremeCommander
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2/3/2011  10:54 AM
Excuse me for posting an article from the liberal media but, see, The People get loud enough and radical changes occur. When that happens self-governance has a way of rectifying the situation.

Egypt's prime minister apologizes and vows probe into violence
Cairo, Egypt (CNN) -- Egypt's new prime minister apologized repeatedly Thursday for the previous day's "catastrophe" in Cairo, blaming infiltrators and a "complete disappearance" of police for the human toll.

Interior Minister Habib Adli, whose office oversees Egypt's police forces, was among several former officials of President Hosni Mubarak's government whose assets were frozen, state-run television said. The officials have been banned from traveling outside the country.

The travel ban will remain in effect "until national security is restored and the authorities and monitoring bodies have undergone their investigations," Nile TV said.

Ahmed Shafiq, appointed prime minister last Saturday, pledged a thorough investigation into Wednesday's violence in Tahrir Square, the downtown Cairo plaza where the uprising has unfolded with force.

"This group got in and some clashes happened," he said, adding that he would look into whether the violence was part of an organized attempt to disband the opposition.

Even as he spoke, foes and supporters of Mubarak's government continued clashing in Tahrir Square. Pro-Mubarak crowds were smaller Thursday but tension still ran high as people hurled rocks and flashbangs at each other.

The two sides faced off all through the night and earlier Thursday, heavy gunfire reverberated in central Cairo. The military maneuvered to separate the two sides but in the afternoon, in parts of the square, the soldiers were nowhere to be seen.

Scores of bandaged demonstrators remained in the square. At least five people were killed and 836 injured, including 200 within one hour Thursday morning, Egypt's health minister said on Nile TV.

In Washington, President Barack Obama addressed the Egyptian crisis, now in its 10th day, at the National Prayer Breakfast.

"We pray that the violence in Egypt will end, and that the rights and aspirations of the Egyptian people will be realized, and that a better day will dawn over Egypt and throughout the world," he said.

Obama's comments came after the leaders of France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Britain issued a statement urging a "rapid and peaceful transition" and European Union foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton called on Mubarak to act "as quickly as possible" on that transition.

Mubarak announced last week that he would not run again in September elections. His newly appointed Egyptian Vice President Omar Suleiman said Mubarak's son, Gamal -- who was being groomed as his successor -- will also not seek the post.

But many of the protesters are demanding an immediate end to Mubarak's rule.

Shafiq appealed to his compatriots, especially Egypt's youth, to show patience as the government's leadership goes through the transitional period.

"It has great meaning not to hurt each other, hurt our reputation," he said. "Do they want what happened in Tunisia to happen here?" Shafiq said, referring to the revolt in Tunisia that ousted the nation's longtime strongman and served as inspiration for other nations in the region that have seen similar demonstrations.

Shafiq said he and newly-appointed Vice President Omar Suleiman were to meet with the opposition -- including protesters in Tahrir Square. He said no one would be excluded from the national dialog, including the Muslim Brotherhood, an outlawed Islamist umbrella group.

But spokesman Essam El-Erian, said the Muslim Brotherhood will not participate in talks with the regime.

"We refuse to sit with him," El-Erian said Thursday, referring to Suleiman.

Other key opposition groups have also rejected meeting invitations, including the secular liberal Wafd Party and the Al-Ghad party, led by former presidential candidate Ayman Nour.

Journalists covering the crisis have also become targets -- beaten, bloodied, harassed and detained by men, most all in some way aligned with Mubarak. Numerous news outlets -- including the BBC, ABC News and CNN -- reported members of their staffs had been attacked, most on the streets of Cairo.

In several cases, news personnel were accused of being "foreign spies," seized, whisked away, and often assaulted. A spokesman for the United States blasted forces in Egypt who have harassed, detained and beaten journalists.

"There is a concerted campaign to intimidate international journalists in Cairo and interfere with their reporting," U.S. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said Thursday on Twitter. "We condemn such actions."

Early Thursday, sustained fire from automatic weapons, including from what sounded like a heavy machine gun, echoed around the square.

Anti-government demonstrators hunkered down behind makeshift barricades and small fires burned in the square, with some spreading to trees and walls. Chunks of concrete and Molotov ****tails flew as the crisis escalated.

In the nation's second-largest city of Alexandria, however, some signs of normalcy could be seen Thursday as trams returned to the streets for the first time in days.

A group of fishermen said they wanted life to get back to normal and one Mubarak supporter said the protests in Cairo were humiliating.

Mubarak loyalists, who had been largely silent since the unrest began, came out in full force Wednesday -- in one case wielding whips and thundering through the crowd on horses and camels.

"What you are seeing is the demonstration of the real Egyptian people who are trying to take back their country, trying to take back their street," said businessman Khaled Ahmed, who described himself as "pro-Egyptian."

But some observers said the pro-Mubarak push Wednesday was likely orchestrated by a regime bent on breaking up peaceful demonstrations.

"These are tactics that are well-known in Egypt," Michele Dunne, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, told CNN's John King.

It was unclear whether confrontations were being repeated elsewhere. Other Cairo neighborhoods were calm, and rallies in Egypt's second-largest city, Alexandria, were largely peaceful.

Cairo resident Waleed Tawfik noted that Tahrir Square is the size of a football stadium, and the events there are not representative of peaceful protests elsewhere.

"There are 29 governors in Egypt," Tawfik said. "I don't understand why the whole international media is focused on a geographic area around about a half-kilometer by a half-kilometer."

He professed neutrality on Mubarak, but said the man who has ruled Egypt for three decades should be allowed to finish his term.

"I'd be worried if the president packed up and left at the request of 60,000 people," Tawfik said. "Eighty-four million is a larger voice ... (to) reconstruct the government and reshuffle ministers won't happen over day and night."

CNN's Frederik Pleitgen, Arwa Damon, Jenifer Fenton, and journalist Ian Lee contributed to this report.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/03/egypt.protests/

ah well. The two smartest guys in the world think I'm a dummy. I'm boo hooing on the inside

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
SupremeCommander
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2/3/2011  11:06 AM
this is from another forum I post on:

On Thursday 24 Jan i went to Egypt to participate in supporting the demonstrations in Egypt. Jan 25 i was in Down town in the Million Egyptian Anger March. Yesterday i was there and Mubarak did a great speech that covered almost 80% of the demands but not the key one which is stepping down from the presidency. i thought this was a good compromise until the elections in November especially that he said he wont run again

Today, i went to the same place (tahrir square in cairo) to listen to the other point of views and then i saw a conspiracy. people who say they support the president (when caught their IDs say that they belong to the Police) and they came to the place where the opposition is! why did they come, why do they want this clash? and after a while they started throwing stones on the protesters and when protesters held themselves they started going in with Horses and Camels!!! they got a good beating. I left. now they are throwing Fire Balls and Molotov bottles on the protesters. where is the Mubarak Regime from all this, why did they let this happen, Egyptians killing each other!! this made me believe that Mubarak should leave NOW before anytime and we should not give him any time more. He is a Dictator

Please spread the word

@Anna: yes this make make of Egyptians believe he should leave more, but there are others that are too relaxed with the status of Mubarak, people who benefit from the system, who won in the last Parliamentary elections through corruption who do not want Mubarak to leave.
@ Nina: We have now formed our own police in the streets, we have shifts and patrols. We have learned that the Egyptian people are extremely strong and when we pass this we will have a great future full of Positive energy. We just need this *** to leave
@ Yasmine: Spot On, bas i 'm not sure if its fake. bas i'm sure that who have the biggest interest from inside is the people who won in the parliamentary elections and won by corruption
@Maha: I've already snapped Pics and Videos that are posted on my Facebook profile and i've made them available for Public. My Grand Children will have the best future, proud of their country and their people
@Yasmine: Wish you were here too, stay safe please. you can help through Viral networking, check out my profile on facebook and join the group we did on issuing a manifesto on how to solve the current situation. please spread it, tell me if you cant find it, its called "Shabab Masr El Mo3tadel" Me, sobhy, seif, Mai and others are working personally on this Manifesto
@Scott: The President has a very strong power over the Army
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
martin
Posts: 76257
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/3/2011  11:11 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:this is from another forum I post on:

On Thursday 24 Jan i went to Egypt to participate in supporting the demonstrations in Egypt. Jan 25 i was in Down town in the Million Egyptian Anger March. Yesterday i was there and Mubarak did a great speech that covered almost 80% of the demands but not the key one which is stepping down from the presidency. i thought this was a good compromise until the elections in November especially that he said he wont run again

Today, i went to the same place (tahrir square in cairo) to listen to the other point of views and then i saw a conspiracy. people who say they support the president (when caught their IDs say that they belong to the Police) and they came to the place where the opposition is! why did they come, why do they want this clash? and after a while they started throwing stones on the protesters and when protesters held themselves they started going in with Horses and Camels!!! they got a good beating. I left. now they are throwing Fire Balls and Molotov bottles on the protesters. where is the Mubarak Regime from all this, why did they let this happen, Egyptians killing each other!! this made me believe that Mubarak should leave NOW before anytime and we should not give him any time more. He is a Dictator

Please spread the word

@Anna: yes this make make of Egyptians believe he should leave more, but there are others that are too relaxed with the status of Mubarak, people who benefit from the system, who won in the last Parliamentary elections through corruption who do not want Mubarak to leave.
@ Nina: We have now formed our own police in the streets, we have shifts and patrols. We have learned that the Egyptian people are extremely strong and when we pass this we will have a great future full of Positive energy. We just need this *** to leave
@ Yasmine: Spot On, bas i 'm not sure if its fake. bas i'm sure that who have the biggest interest from inside is the people who won in the parliamentary elections and won by corruption
@Maha: I've already snapped Pics and Videos that are posted on my Facebook profile and i've made them available for Public. My Grand Children will have the best future, proud of their country and their people
@Yasmine: Wish you were here too, stay safe please. you can help through Viral networking, check out my profile on facebook and join the group we did on issuing a manifesto on how to solve the current situation. please spread it, tell me if you cant find it, its called "Shabab Masr El Mo3tadel" Me, sobhy, seif, Mai and others are working personally on this Manifesto
@Scott: The President has a very strong power over the Army

wow interesting stuff.

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SupremeCommander
Posts: 34057
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

2/3/2011  11:16 AM
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:this is from another forum I post on:

On Thursday 24 Jan i went to Egypt to participate in supporting the demonstrations in Egypt. Jan 25 i was in Down town in the Million Egyptian Anger March. Yesterday i was there and Mubarak did a great speech that covered almost 80% of the demands but not the key one which is stepping down from the presidency. i thought this was a good compromise until the elections in November especially that he said he wont run again

Today, i went to the same place (tahrir square in cairo) to listen to the other point of views and then i saw a conspiracy. people who say they support the president (when caught their IDs say that they belong to the Police) and they came to the place where the opposition is! why did they come, why do they want this clash? and after a while they started throwing stones on the protesters and when protesters held themselves they started going in with Horses and Camels!!! they got a good beating. I left. now they are throwing Fire Balls and Molotov bottles on the protesters. where is the Mubarak Regime from all this, why did they let this happen, Egyptians killing each other!! this made me believe that Mubarak should leave NOW before anytime and we should not give him any time more. He is a Dictator

Please spread the word

@Anna: yes this make make of Egyptians believe he should leave more, but there are others that are too relaxed with the status of Mubarak, people who benefit from the system, who won in the last Parliamentary elections through corruption who do not want Mubarak to leave.
@ Nina: We have now formed our own police in the streets, we have shifts and patrols. We have learned that the Egyptian people are extremely strong and when we pass this we will have a great future full of Positive energy. We just need this *** to leave
@ Yasmine: Spot On, bas i 'm not sure if its fake. bas i'm sure that who have the biggest interest from inside is the people who won in the parliamentary elections and won by corruption
@Maha: I've already snapped Pics and Videos that are posted on my Facebook profile and i've made them available for Public. My Grand Children will have the best future, proud of their country and their people
@Yasmine: Wish you were here too, stay safe please. you can help through Viral networking, check out my profile on facebook and join the group we did on issuing a manifesto on how to solve the current situation. please spread it, tell me if you cant find it, its called "Shabab Masr El Mo3tadel" Me, sobhy, seif, Mai and others are working personally on this Manifesto
@Scott: The President has a very strong power over the Army

wow interesting stuff.

I PM'ed him and he just responded:

RE: good for you
From****
Date03 February 11 at 11:02
Thank you Steve, we are taking a rest today and tomorrow will be a defining moment in Egypt's history
On Thu, 03 Feb 11, 11:00, Steve wrote
Subject: good for you
I applaud you for standing up for what is right and being at the protests. Be safe!
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
martin
Posts: 76257
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/3/2011  11:24 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:this is from another forum I post on:

On Thursday 24 Jan i went to Egypt to participate in supporting the demonstrations in Egypt. Jan 25 i was in Down town in the Million Egyptian Anger March. Yesterday i was there and Mubarak did a great speech that covered almost 80% of the demands but not the key one which is stepping down from the presidency. i thought this was a good compromise until the elections in November especially that he said he wont run again

Today, i went to the same place (tahrir square in cairo) to listen to the other point of views and then i saw a conspiracy. people who say they support the president (when caught their IDs say that they belong to the Police) and they came to the place where the opposition is! why did they come, why do they want this clash? and after a while they started throwing stones on the protesters and when protesters held themselves they started going in with Horses and Camels!!! they got a good beating. I left. now they are throwing Fire Balls and Molotov bottles on the protesters. where is the Mubarak Regime from all this, why did they let this happen, Egyptians killing each other!! this made me believe that Mubarak should leave NOW before anytime and we should not give him any time more. He is a Dictator

Please spread the word

@Anna: yes this make make of Egyptians believe he should leave more, but there are others that are too relaxed with the status of Mubarak, people who benefit from the system, who won in the last Parliamentary elections through corruption who do not want Mubarak to leave.
@ Nina: We have now formed our own police in the streets, we have shifts and patrols. We have learned that the Egyptian people are extremely strong and when we pass this we will have a great future full of Positive energy. We just need this *** to leave
@ Yasmine: Spot On, bas i 'm not sure if its fake. bas i'm sure that who have the biggest interest from inside is the people who won in the parliamentary elections and won by corruption
@Maha: I've already snapped Pics and Videos that are posted on my Facebook profile and i've made them available for Public. My Grand Children will have the best future, proud of their country and their people
@Yasmine: Wish you were here too, stay safe please. you can help through Viral networking, check out my profile on facebook and join the group we did on issuing a manifesto on how to solve the current situation. please spread it, tell me if you cant find it, its called "Shabab Masr El Mo3tadel" Me, sobhy, seif, Mai and others are working personally on this Manifesto
@Scott: The President has a very strong power over the Army

wow interesting stuff.

I PM'ed him and he just responded:

RE: good for you
From****
Date03 February 11 at 11:02
Thank you Steve, we are taking a rest today and tomorrow will be a defining moment in Egypt's history
On Thu, 03 Feb 11, 11:00, Steve wrote
Subject: good for you
I applaud you for standing up for what is right and being at the protests. Be safe!

i never knew that such revealing details could be gotten from the Maxim.com forums. That's the other site you post on, right? OT Egypt thread no less. Good for you guys!

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SupremeCommander
Posts: 34057
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

2/3/2011  11:57 AM
more infro from primary sources--a Libyan friend sent this and Tripoli is the richest city in the region. Many Tunisians and Egyptians work their. Most of them do the service jobs the Libyans don't want to do.

Steve January 28 at 12:35pm
what the heck is going on in Tunisia and Egypt???
*** January 28 at 4:01pm Report
hey man , Tunisian ppl had said enough to thier president it was the call of freedom when some young guy burned him self alife in front of the government office and then the whole country had turned on thier president and they won, the same thing happened in Egypt it's the revolution my friend
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
OT Egypt

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