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ESPN: Knicks make significant progress on Carmelo trade
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10/20/2010  3:04 PM
Melo should be forever grateful if Nuggets get him to New York
By Chris Dempsey Posted October 20, 2010, 11:43 am MT

If Carmelo Anthony ends up with the New York Knicks, he should bend over backward to thank a franchise that not only reluctantly let their superstar go, but waited and fulfilled his every wish to do so.

That will have been a big-time classy move, my friends.

Anthony could be in New Jersey right this minute. And while that would be fine with him, particularly since the team has plans to move to Brooklyn in the near future, it just wouldn’t be the Knicks. Anthony loves playing in The Garden. He says it every time he goes to New York for a game, and he’ll say it again in December, if he’s still a Nugget by then.

One of the most overblown aspects of this entire story has been the willingness of many to interpret Anthony’s words of fondness for playing in The Garden into meaning he wanted to play for the Knicks. But he does.

And Melo could be headed there. Soon.

The Knicks play in Denver on Nov. 16. What if Anthony were in Knicks blue for that one?

He should bring the team a gift basket. The best offer the Nuggets could act on was the New Jersey offer. The team has tried to do its due diligence since then, scouring the league for more lucrative offers, and you know what that’s turned up? The New Jersey deal was the best deal that could actually happen.

But it’s also given time for the Knicks to be creative, and that’s what that organization is trying to be right now. It’s no secret that they didn’t have all of the necessary assets required to be a serious player in the Carmelo Anthony sweepstakes at the start. But give enterprising people like Donnie Walsh, Knicks president of basketball operations, enough time, and they’ll put the pieces of the puzzle together and make it work.

And so ‘making it work’ has definite faces: Eddy Curry (expiring contract), Anthony Randolph and Danilo Gallinari (both good young talent?) and a first-round pick from somewhere else.

This would be a Carmelo-centic deal. The player would get everything he wants, but you get the feeling the Nuggets get only part of what they want and, most importantly, need. The first-round pick is good. The expiring contract is nice to have for future signing purposes, although there’s nothing extra intriguing out there in at least the next two free agent summers. The players, however, you can take-or-leave, and that’s not the value the Nuggets need in return. Allowing for the fact that the team will not ever get equal or close to equal value for Anthony, it should at least grab one young player that can be an integral part of the new core going forward. I’ve seen Anthony Randolph score in bunches at times, and Gallinari flaunt what can be a deadly 3-point stroke, but neither strikes as being cornerstone-type players.

One reason why that’s important: It chops down on the time it takes to jump back into the pack of relevant teams.

This will be a process; there is no doubt about it, and everyone wants it to be as fast as possible. Anthony’s departure will mean the impending departure of others as well as the Nuggets strip down to a foundation they want to build from. Makes it easier if there are one – or two – fewer players they’d need to draft to attain that goal. There’s a hitting-the-ground-running aspect to it that can happen if at least one player coming back is prime-time or has the obvious potential to be prime-time with the right coaching.

So while the Nuggets would be generous to give Anthony what he wants and the Knicks would beam because they got the player they wanted, the Nuggets must also make sure that when all the food is being taken they aren’t simply left with scraps.

Chris Dempsey: www.twitter.com/dempseypost or cdempsey@denverpost.com

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fishmike
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10/20/2010  3:05 PM
TMS wrote:if there's anyone who doesn't like people who make stuff up without having anything to back it up, it's fishmike.
amen!
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grillco
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10/20/2010  3:15 PM
I started a thread (http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=36725) and posted the following, which would surely factor in from Denver's POV:

"Forget about the potential to get Melo for a moment and think about trying to upgrade during the season at all.

Coach and Pres say Randolph is a "project". Danilo is "upset" about trade talks, potentially being perceived as too sensitive. Wilson doesn't have and isn't earning a role. Adding this for this posting: none of them are impressing anyone thus far in the pre-season.

So who's going to be eager to take any of these players for an all-star, regardless of the parts they are packaged with. Is this the Knicks giving up on further upgrades, sensing a lack of interest in their pieces, and trying to get the fans to accept that what they see is what they get? It's now just keep your fingers crossed about getting any other big name players, be it Melo this season or next off-season AND even more so for CP?

I'm all for the truth as a fan, but when the staff and press are painting these guys in a bad light it doesn't help the team at all."

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10/20/2010  3:19 PM
Adding further questions is Lawrence's latest piece in the Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/2010/10/20/2010-10-20_nets_hope_derrick_favors_can_be_used_as_trade_chip_to_pry_carmelo_anthony_away_f.html) which lauds Favors' play as helping lean the Nuggets back to being interested in NJ.

Just more crap to sully the works. If Melo ends up in Jersey, Walsh's plan can be officially stamped a failure. Doom and gloom, roaring and knashing of teeth.

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10/20/2010  3:26 PM
thank God
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
nixluva
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10/20/2010  3:42 PM
grillco wrote:Adding further questions is Lawrence's latest piece in the Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/2010/10/20/2010-10-20_nets_hope_derrick_favors_can_be_used_as_trade_chip_to_pry_carmelo_anthony_away_f.html) which lauds Favors' play as helping lean the Nuggets back to being interested in NJ.

Just more crap to sully the works. If Melo ends up in Jersey, Walsh's plan can be officially stamped a failure. Doom and gloom, roaring and knashing of teeth.


I don't think the people in Denver have any doubt that all of the guys they would trade Melo for are projects. Even Favors isn't a lock to be an impact player. He's still very raw too. It seems like we are in the drivers seat on this trade at this point. If it's gonna happen it'll be NY that gets Melo. I'm not worried about the Nets. NJ needs to keep Favors and work on developing their young team. I don't see adding Melo as the answer to all of their problems. We're much closer to a real working contender with the addition of Melo than they would be. To me Amar'e/Melo/Felton is better than Melo/Lopez/Harris. I'm positive that Melo would prefer to play in NY with Amar'e.
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10/20/2010  3:56 PM
nixluva wrote:I don't think the people in Denver have any doubt that all of the guys they would trade Melo for are projects. Even Favors isn't a lock to be an impact player. He's still very raw too. It seems like we are in the drivers seat on this trade at this point. If it's gonna happen it'll be NY that gets Melo. I'm not worried about the Nets. NJ needs to keep Favors and work on developing their young team. I don't see adding Melo as the answer to all of their problems. We're much closer to a real working contender with the addition of Melo than they would be. To me Amar'e/Melo/Felton is better than Melo/Lopez/Harris. I'm positive that Melo would prefer to play in NY with Amar'e.

Melo to NJ would be a huge blow to NY and make their arrival in NY even bigger and more impactful. Mel would attract other players to the Nets and that team could overshadow the Knicks rather quickly. The Knicks haven't been the Lakers the Nets' Clippers. Both teams have been losing and missing the playoffs and outside of draft position it doesn't matter if you miss the playoffs by one game or 40, the team is still a loser on the outside looking in.

Moonangie
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10/20/2010  4:01 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2010  4:02 PM
Knicks have history (70s AND 90s, even tho no chip during the MJ years), Knicks have The Garden (and all the shyte that has gone down in there), Knicks have the celebrities (not just Hova, but LOTS of celebrities), and the Knicks have Stat.

The Nyets have Lopez and the slum called Newark. It will take them many years to establish themselves in Brooklyn, especially because it's not just being IN The City, it's also being in the Mecca.

By the time the Nyets are relevant as a NYC team, Melo will be running a record label and doing some NBA Finals commentating on TNT (wearing his three rings he wins with the Knicks).

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10/20/2010  5:25 PM
Moonangie wrote:Knicks have history (70s AND 90s, even tho no chip during the MJ years), Knicks have The Garden (and all the shyte that has gone down in there), Knicks have the celebrities (not just Hova, but LOTS of celebrities), and the Knicks have Stat.

The Nyets have Lopez and the slum called Newark. It will take them many years to establish themselves in Brooklyn, especially because it's not just being IN The City, it's also being in the Mecca.

By the time the Nyets are relevant as a NYC team, Melo will be running a record label and doing some NBA Finals commentating on TNT (wearing his three rings he wins with the Knicks).

Love it!
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Moonangie
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10/20/2010  5:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2010  5:41 PM
I have never been against signing Melo. I think it's critical and definitely our Plan "B" for how we take the next step in becoming a contender. I just prefer to gamble that we can get him without destroying our core. It's a risk, I admit, but it also sets the table better for our team LONG TERM. Scrambling now may cost us later.

Besides, we need assets to trade for the third piece (i.e., elite PG). We can't use all the good ones now.

Gallo goes (he's redundant, even though I think he will become a star), but AR stays. We need his skills on the defensive end, and when he develops his frame and game, we will be able to count on him to be our X-factor star, a board-grabbing hustle guy who goes to the line often, gets put backs and alley oops, shoots a FEW mid-range jumpers and basically owns the paint. I think he will develop quickly this year as our sixth man. I'd like to see Lee-type numbers from him by next season (adjusted for playing time).

The Deal: Gallo, Curry, junk filler, $3mil (to help them with cash situation this season), 2014 pick (or a first rounder we pickup in a trade). That may not sound like enough right now, but come the deadline (and with Gallo finding his game) it will sound a lot better than losing Melo for bubkis.

Denver will blink. Book it.

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10/20/2010  5:51 PM
Moonangie wrote:I have never been against signing Melo. I think it's critical and definitely our Plan "B" for how we take the next step in becoming a contender. I just prefer to gamble that we can get him without destroying our core. It's a risk, I admit, but it also sets the table better for our team LONG TERM. Scrambling now may cost us later.

Besides, we need assets to trade for the third piece (i.e., elite PG). We can't use all the good ones now.

Gallo goes (he's redundant, even though I think he will become a star), but AR stays. We need his skills on the defensive end, and when he develops his frame and game, we will be able to count on him to be our X-factor star, a board-grabbing hustle guy who goes to the line often, gets put backs and alley oops, shoots a FEW mid-range jumpers and basically owns the paint. I think he will develop quickly this year as our sixth man. I'd like to see Lee-type numbers from him by next season (adjusted for playing time).

The Deal: Gallo, Curry, junk filler, $3mil (to help them with cash situation this season), 2014 pick (or a first rounder we pickup in a trade). That may not sound like enough right now, but come the deadline (and with Gallo finding his game) it will sound a lot better than losing Melo for bubkis.

Denver will blink. Book it.


I would much rather trade AR than Gallo. We desperately need Gallo's shooting ability and he fits fine at SG. With the emergence of Mozgov, AR lacks a role in the starting line-up maybe ever. We have other pieces we can develop as 6th men, but we need the shooter in the line-up in the worst way. If we deal Gallo, we better either hope Walker becomes that high volume-great pure shooter that Gallo is, or we go out and get someone like Ben Gordon or Kevin Martin asap.
TheSage
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10/20/2010  6:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2010  6:53 PM
I read the sentiments of all the experienced GMs here and its almost pathetic. Does anyone here really believe that a NY street guy like Walsh with one or two years of experience in his background is going to empty the coffers and leave himself with half a team. I think AR is a goner-by the time he grows up Melo and STAT will be in the latter part of their primes but it is what I think not what a pro like Donnie thinks. Yes, he took a crap shot for the gold ring this past year and lost-he won't make the same mistake again. Gallo probably won't be going-reports (if they are to be believed) indicate that Denver wasn't interested in him (I don't know whether true or false and probably the same is true for those that wrote it). Chandler is probably a goner after great showings in preseason and he is due a new contract after the season. Curry-necessary for the contract - bye bye. So I think we a looking at AR, Curry, Chandler (directly or for a no 1 from a third team)and one of the other players on the roster. Any more and DW will sit on his hands. The only hangup is AR who I don't believe can be traded before Dec 15.

I repeat-Donnie ain't no fool and no one here including Briggs (sorry 'bout that Briggs) is a better evaluator of talent than a man who has seen it all over the last 40+ years.

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10/20/2010  6:59 PM
Moonangie wrote:I have never been against signing Melo. I think it's critical and definitely our Plan "B" for how we take the next step in becoming a contender. I just prefer to gamble that we can get him without destroying our core. It's a risk, I admit, but it also sets the table better for our team LONG TERM. Scrambling now may cost us later.

Everything has to go right with "potential" of the youth to make keeping them long term better than getting Melo. A lot needs to happen between now and then.

Moonangie wrote:Besides, we need assets to trade for the third piece (i.e., elite PG). We can't use all the good ones now.

The best hopes for an elite PG will be CP in 2012 IF he gets back to form and doesn't stay in NO. A lot can happen between now and then.

Moonangie wrote:Gallo goes (he's redundant, even though I think he will become a star), but AR stays. We need his skills on the defensive end, and when he develops his frame and game, we will be able to count on him to be our X-factor star, a board-grabbing hustle guy who goes to the line often, gets put backs and alley oops, shoots a FEW mid-range jumpers and basically owns the paint. I think he will develop quickly this year as our sixth man. I'd like to see Lee-type numbers from him by next season (adjusted for playing time).

Lee numbers are asking a lot of what D'Antoni and Walsh are calling a project. Think about how many "project" actually acheive anything near their "potential". Again, a lot needs to happen for AR to get to Lee's place, ESPECIALLY given he will not get as many touches with Amare and Melo (if he's acquired) on the team...or even if he stayed in NY with Danilo, who will be second in plays after Amare.

Moonangie wrote:The Deal: Gallo, Curry, junk filler, $3mil (to help them with cash situation this season), 2014 pick (or a first rounder we pickup in a trade). That may not sound like enough right now, but come the deadline (and with Gallo finding his game) it will sound a lot better than losing Melo for bubkis.

Melo can play the trade me to NY or just lose me at the end of the season right now if he wants to. At the break we can't assume that the Knicks will even be decent let alone good enough to maintain Melo and La La's interest. If the Knicks stink up the court all season, he may go running to NJ or Orlando. One gives him NYC and the other provides a great chance to compete and Hollywood Jr. for La La's "career". Again the Knicks will be competing with other teams for his services and may make a compelling case for signing with their team. Again a lot of the right things have to happen between now and then to make it work. A contender trades for Melo and wins or even just gets to the finals and he might just sign an extension or as a free agent with them rather than go to his third team (theoretically NY) just hoping that they might be good enough to beat the Heat to get back to the finals, let alone try to win a ring.

Moonangie wrote:Denver will blink. Book it.

We'll see, but only if Walsh agrees with your POV.

grillco
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10/20/2010  7:10 PM
TheSage wrote:I read the sentiments of all the experienced GMs here and its almost pathetic. Does anyone here really believe that a NY street guy like Walsh with one or two years of experience in his background is going to empty the coffers and leave himself with half a team. I think AR is a goner-by the time he grows up Melo and STAT will be in the latter part of their primes but it is what I think not what a pro like Donnie thinks. Yes, he took a crap shot for the gold ring this past year and lost-he won't make the same mistake again. Gallo probably won't be going-reports (if they are to be believed) indicate that Denver wasn't interested in him (I don't know whether true or false and probably the same is true for those that wrote it). Chandler is probably a goner after great showings in preseason and he is due a new contract after the season. Curry-necessary for the contract - bye bye. So I think we a looking at AR, Curry, Chandler (directly or for a no 1 from a third team)and one of the other players on the roster. Any more and DW will sit on his hands. The only hangup is AR who I don't believe can be traded before Dec 15.

I repeat-Donnie ain't no fool and no one here including Briggs (sorry 'bout that Briggs) is a better evaluator of talent than a man who has seen it all over the last 40+ years.

I believe realGM takes all restrictions into account and your suggested with TD added, just to meet the other player requirement was accepted as a successfult trade. So it seems AR is tradeable before December.

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10/20/2010  7:15 PM
grillco wrote:
TheSage wrote:I read the sentiments of all the experienced GMs here and its almost pathetic. Does anyone here really believe that a NY street guy like Walsh with one or two years of experience in his background is going to empty the coffers and leave himself with half a team. I think AR is a goner-by the time he grows up Melo and STAT will be in the latter part of their primes but it is what I think not what a pro like Donnie thinks. Yes, he took a crap shot for the gold ring this past year and lost-he won't make the same mistake again. Gallo probably won't be going-reports (if they are to be believed) indicate that Denver wasn't interested in him (I don't know whether true or false and probably the same is true for those that wrote it). Chandler is probably a goner after great showings in preseason and he is due a new contract after the season. Curry-necessary for the contract - bye bye. So I think we a looking at AR, Curry, Chandler (directly or for a no 1 from a third team)and one of the other players on the roster. Any more and DW will sit on his hands. The only hangup is AR who I don't believe can be traded before Dec 15.

I repeat-Donnie ain't no fool and no one here including Briggs (sorry 'bout that Briggs) is a better evaluator of talent than a man who has seen it all over the last 40+ years.

I believe realGM takes all restrictions into account and your suggested with TD added, just to meet the other player requirement was accepted as a successfult trade. So it seems AR is tradeable before December.


All 3 of the Golden State players acquired in the trade for Lee are tradable as of right now. So AR, Azubuike, and/or Turiaf can be traded.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
firefly
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10/20/2010  7:46 PM
Sixers commentators (inc. Eric Snow) just said the Knicks confirmed they are looking for a 3rd team, to complete the Melo deal.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
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10/20/2010  8:20 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Moonangie wrote:I have never been against signing Melo. I think it's critical and definitely our Plan "B" for how we take the next step in becoming a contender. I just prefer to gamble that we can get him without destroying our core. It's a risk, I admit, but it also sets the table better for our team LONG TERM. Scrambling now may cost us later.

Besides, we need assets to trade for the third piece (i.e., elite PG). We can't use all the good ones now.

Gallo goes (he's redundant, even though I think he will become a star), but AR stays. We need his skills on the defensive end, and when he develops his frame and game, we will be able to count on him to be our X-factor star, a board-grabbing hustle guy who goes to the line often, gets put backs and alley oops, shoots a FEW mid-range jumpers and basically owns the paint. I think he will develop quickly this year as our sixth man. I'd like to see Lee-type numbers from him by next season (adjusted for playing time).

The Deal: Gallo, Curry, junk filler, $3mil (to help them with cash situation this season), 2014 pick (or a first rounder we pickup in a trade). That may not sound like enough right now, but come the deadline (and with Gallo finding his game) it will sound a lot better than losing Melo for bubkis.

Denver will blink. Book it.


I would much rather trade AR than Gallo. We desperately need Gallo's shooting ability and he fits fine at SG. With the emergence of Mozgov, AR lacks a role in the starting line-up maybe ever. We have other pieces we can develop as 6th men, but we need the shooter in the line-up in the worst way. If we deal Gallo, we better either hope Walker becomes that high volume-great pure shooter that Gallo is, or we go out and get someone like Ben Gordon or Kevin Martin asap.

3-pt shooting role players are found all around the league for cheap. Guys like Morrow, Kapono, Korver, etc. Why hold onto Gallo when he plays the same position as Melo and would be nothing more than a spot-up 3-pt shooter with him? Hell, he's already just a spot up 3-pt shooter with Amare.

I'd much rather keep Randolph to play the 6th man Odom role off the bench. And as a potential chip for Paul.

TMS
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10/20/2010  9:08 PM
grillco wrote:Just more crap to sully the works. If Melo ends up in Jersey, Walsh's plan can be officially stamped a failure.

i'm sure someone will come up with a way to spin it as a success... remember, it doesn't matter if we miss out on all the good players, as long as we're flexible... flexibility wins championships!

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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10/20/2010  9:22 PM
TMS wrote:
grillco wrote:Just more crap to sully the works. If Melo ends up in Jersey, Walsh's plan can be officially stamped a failure.

i'm sure someone will come up with a way to spin it as a success... remember, it doesn't matter if we miss out on all the good players, as long as we're flexible... flexibility wins championships!

It's not about spinning it. Look the situation we'd be in would still be one where the team has options and that's better than being capped out with no options and a team that can win a title. From here on we're a team with a good cap situation and youth to try and develop so that's not a bad spot. It's only negative in the eyes of those that can't put things in perspective.

No Melo trade and we still have a team full of young prospects and will still be a team with cap space to try and make something else happen down the line. You never know what will develop and you have to just keep your options open. Maybe they make something happen with CP3. It's just not the end of the world.

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10/20/2010  11:37 PM
So is it safe to speculate that Danilo and Wilson sat out tonight because they may be leaving in the next day or two?

One story talks about "resting" starters, but only three of five were rested. Obviously we know Amare isn't going anywhere. What say yee UK forumites?

ESPN: Knicks make significant progress on Carmelo trade

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