TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:let's get this clear, i'm not in favor of giving up everything we have for Melo... if we can keep one of AR or Gallo & still get Melo, i think it's a no brainer... if not, then it's a non issue cuz i wouldn't make the trade if we had to give up all 3 of AR, Gallo & Wilson.

LOL for the past week you have been arguing against posters who wouldn't give up the farm for Melo - and I think most of them have articulated that that meant not giving up AR, Gallo, Chandler and a possible 2014... and now this? You actually agree with most of those you were arguing against.

I don't think anyone thinks we can give up just Chandler/AR or Chandler/Gallo for Melo.

LOL, for the past week i've been saying i don't give up the farm for Melo... maybe you oughta read my comments before you call me out on them martin?

i said if u can hold onto 1 of either Gallo or AR, that it's a no brainer to make the deal... please show me where i've said we need to give up every single young asset we have to get Melo in a Knicks uniform.

you misread what I said again. I didn't claim the part that is bolded.

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:We just dont need this guy now... and if we do want him AND want to build a title team then you wait and sign him as a FA. Gallo and AR arent role players. They are building block guys with all star potential. If you want to win about 50 games a year and lose in round 2 every year then great. Go trade AR, Gallo or whatever combo for Melo. Then we are the Hawks.

What the goal here? If its to win a title then keep developing AR/Gallo, see if Chandler takes a step forward and go from there. We can have max cap space again if we choose to. Defense, rebounding, size, playmakers, skill, shooting... thats what I am going for.

There are better fitting players out there than Carmelo. Marc Gasol, Al Horford, Shane Battier, Sam Dalembert

No, they are not. If they were, teams would be lining up to trade for them. Denver would trade Carmelo Anthony for two players with All-Star potential in a second. You guys are overrating these two way too much and will end up looking very foolish in the end. Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph will not make any All-Star teams. I hope I'm dead wrong and you are right but I don't see it.

And to say adding Marc Gasol, Al Holford, Shane Battier or Sam Dalembert improves this team more than Melo is crazy. It's like you don't realize Melo is a 26 year old 30 ppg scorer who is 8-4 lifetime against LeCon. He is not Al Harrington or Glen Robinson. Players like Melo don't come around often. Players like Gallo and Randolph are a dime a dozen. Every team has a Gallo or a Randolph that they overrate.

I agree with most of what you're saying. The only exception being that Danilo and Randolph do have and are showing clear potential to be great players. The only problem goes back to your point, but instead of every team having players they overrate, every team seems to have a few guys that could become all-stars. These are the Knicks' version thereof and could improve (in varying degrees), maintain, or decline in skills as they play more and league figures out how to neutralize them. Melo is a proven talent and every GM in every sport will trade potential for peak realized potential nine times out of 10. These great young players show a lot of promise and ideally the Knicks could keep them AND get Melo, but loosing out on Melo to keep these guys might be a big mistake. Yes the Nuggets have fallen short, but it's in the toughest division in the NBA for the past decade and it has NEVER been due to Melo. His numbers and efforts are beyond reproach while the make up of his team has been less than stellar.

PF: Amar'e Stoudemire
SF: Carmelo Anthony
C: Ronny Turiaf
SG: Kelenna Azubuike/Roger Mason
PG: Raymond Felton

That's a 55 win team.

PF: Amar'e Stoudemire
SF: Danilo Gallinari
C: Anthony Randolph
SG: Wilson Chandler
PG: Raymond Felton

That's a 40 win team.

iSergio wrote:Do you realize Donnie Walsh would have preffered (right or wrong) to sign Joe Johnson over trading for Anthony Randolph? I don't think for a second Walsh loves Randolph as much as you do.

PF: Amar'e Stoudemire
SF: Carmelo Anthony
C: Ronny Turiaf
SG: Kelenna Azubuike/Roger Mason
PG: Raymond Felton

That's a 55 win team.

PF: Amar'e Stoudemire
SF: Danilo Gallinari
C: Anthony Randolph
SG: Wilson Chandler
PG: Raymond Felton

That's a 40 win team.

you’re setting a ceiling on gallo and ar. that's your prerogative but you could be 100% wrong. they could both break out this year and we could be in MUCH better shape not making the trade.

iSergio wrote:

martin wrote:

iSergio wrote:Do you realize Donnie Walsh would have preffered (right or wrong) to sign Joe Johnson over trading for Anthony Randolph? I don't think for a second Walsh loves Randolph as much as you do.

PF: Amar'e Stoudemire
SF: Carmelo Anthony
C: Ronny Turiaf
SG: Kelenna Azubuike/Roger Mason
PG: Raymond Felton

That's a 55 win team.

PF: Amar'e Stoudemire
SF: Danilo Gallinari
C: Anthony Randolph
SG: Wilson Chandler
PG: Raymond Felton

That's a 40 win team.

you made that up.

And the next sentence.... he has repeatedly said he loves Randolph.

The David Lee/Golden State trade was like Plan D. Donnie Walsh contacted Joe Johnson on July 1st.

Donnie contacted me 1 July, don't mean he wanted me more than Randolph.

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:let's get this clear, i'm not in favor of giving up everything we have for Melo... if we can keep one of AR or Gallo & still get Melo, i think it's a no brainer... if not, then it's a non issue cuz i wouldn't make the trade if we had to give up all 3 of AR, Gallo & Wilson.

LOL for the past week you have been arguing against posters who wouldn't give up the farm for Melo - and I think most of them have articulated that that meant not giving up AR, Gallo, Chandler and a possible 2014... and now this? You actually agree with most of those you were arguing against.

I don't think anyone thinks we can give up just Chandler/AR or Chandler/Gallo for Melo.

LOL, for the past week i've been saying i don't give up the farm for Melo... maybe you oughta read my comments before you call me out on them martin?

i said if u can hold onto 1 of either Gallo or AR, that it's a no brainer to make the deal... please show me where i've said we need to give up every single young asset we have to get Melo in a Knicks uniform.

you misread what I said again. I didn't claim the part that is bolded.

the people i'm arguing against are the ones saying both Gallo & AR are untouchable & would not include EITHER of them in a trade for Melo.

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:We just dont need this guy now... and if we do want him AND want to build a title team then you wait and sign him as a FA. Gallo and AR arent role players. They are building block guys with all star potential. If you want to win about 50 games a year and lose in round 2 every year then great. Go trade AR, Gallo or whatever combo for Melo. Then we are the Hawks.

What the goal here? If its to win a title then keep developing AR/Gallo, see if Chandler takes a step forward and go from there. We can have max cap space again if we choose to. Defense, rebounding, size, playmakers, skill, shooting... thats what I am going for.

There are better fitting players out there than Carmelo. Marc Gasol, Al Horford, Shane Battier, Sam Dalembert

No, they are not. If they were, teams would be lining up to trade for them. Denver would trade Carmelo Anthony for two players with All-Star potential in a second. You guys are overrating these two way too much and will end up looking very foolish in the end. Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph will not make any All-Star teams. I hope I'm dead wrong and you are right but I don't see it.

And to say adding Marc Gasol, Al Holford, Shane Battier or Sam Dalembert improves this team more than Melo is crazy. It's like you don't realize Melo is a 26 year old 30 ppg scorer who is 8-4 lifetime against LeCon. He is not Al Harrington or Glen Robinson. Players like Melo don't come around often. Players like Gallo and Randolph are a dime a dozen. Every team has a Gallo or a Randolph that they overrate.

I don't think it works that way.. if teams were lining up to trade for them, what would they have to offer? exactly, similar young talent or established veteran allstar talent... what teams want to do that? were there teams line up for kevin durant to be traded? No because they knew that he was not on the block, or would cost too much.. maybe teams are not lining up for these guys because the high cost is pretty much implied...

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:let's get this clear, i'm not in favor of giving up everything we have for Melo... if we can keep one of AR or Gallo & still get Melo, i think it's a no brainer... if not, then it's a non issue cuz i wouldn't make the trade if we had to give up all 3 of AR, Gallo & Wilson.

LOL for the past week you have been arguing against posters who wouldn't give up the farm for Melo - and I think most of them have articulated that that meant not giving up AR, Gallo, Chandler and a possible 2014... and now this? You actually agree with most of those you were arguing against.

I don't think anyone thinks we can give up just Chandler/AR or Chandler/Gallo for Melo.

LOL, for the past week i've been saying i don't give up the farm for Melo... maybe you oughta read my comments before you call me out on them martin?

i said if u can hold onto 1 of either Gallo or AR, that it's a no brainer to make the deal... please show me where i've said we need to give up every single young asset we have to get Melo in a Knicks uniform.

you misread what I said again. I didn't claim the part that is bolded.

the people i'm arguing against are the ones saying both Gallo & AR are untouchable & would not include EITHER of them in a trade for Melo.

perhaps I am mistaken but I don't see one person who says they wouldn't do a Gallo+Curry or AR+Curry for Melo.

you are hugely mistaken... read the posts from BRIGGS & many others who have said both Gallo & AR are off the table in any Melo deal.

read BRIGGS again. This is what he has repeatedly said: he would not trade Gallo+AR+Chandler+2014 (all of them together) for Melo. Not something else. And he and other have said that is what Denver would ask for.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=36374

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:let's get this clear, i'm not in favor of giving up everything we have for Melo... if we can keep one of AR or Gallo & still get Melo, i think it's a no brainer... if not, then it's a non issue cuz i wouldn't make the trade if we had to give up all 3 of AR, Gallo & Wilson.

LOL for the past week you have been arguing against posters who wouldn't give up the farm for Melo - and I think most of them have articulated that that meant not giving up AR, Gallo, Chandler and a possible 2014... and now this? You actually agree with most of those you were arguing against.

I don't think anyone thinks we can give up just Chandler/AR or Chandler/Gallo for Melo.

LOL, for the past week i've been saying i don't give up the farm for Melo... maybe you oughta read my comments before you call me out on them martin?

i said if u can hold onto 1 of either Gallo or AR, that it's a no brainer to make the deal... please show me where i've said we need to give up every single young asset we have to get Melo in a Knicks uniform.

you misread what I said again. I didn't claim the part that is bolded.

the people i'm arguing against are the ones saying both Gallo & AR are untouchable & would not include EITHER of them in a trade for Melo.

perhaps I am mistaken but I don't see one person who says they wouldn't do a Gallo+Curry or AR+Curry for Melo.

you are hugely mistaken... read the posts from BRIGGS & many others who have said both Gallo & AR are off the table in any Melo deal.

read BRIGGS again. This is what he has repeatedly said: he would not trade Gallo+AR+Chandler+2014 (all of them together) for Melo. Not something else. And he and other have said that is what Denver would ask for.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=36374

he & others have said both AR & Gallo are off the table in any Melo deal... i don't have the willingness to go look up the thread or post but feel free to do so if you're so inclined... i'm not here to argue semantics but let's get the facts straight... that is what i'm arguing against... to think that you would pass up a deal for Melo because you consider both Gallo & AR untouchable doesn't make any sense to me... yes, i realize it's possible DEN would ask for both, in which case like i said i wouldn't make the deal, but that is what i am arguing against, that i think it's nuts not to at least be willing to use one of them to put together some kind of package to get Melo, a superstar player in his prime... & yes, i do consider him a superstar, though i'd much rather trade for CP3 as i've stated many times... we're not exactly in a position to be picking & choosing which superstar we will allow to play here... Knicks fans thought guys like Wade & Lebron would be falling over themselves to play at the Garden... well, we all saw how that played out... i'm not willing to pass up a guy like Melo if the right deal presents itself like the others are... they'd rather wait til he becomes a FA & hope that he'll sign here... i'm done w/putting my eggs in the free agency basket.

iSergio wrote:

Marv wrote:

iSergio wrote:Do you realize Donnie Walsh would have preffered (right or wrong) to sign Joe Johnson over trading for Anthony Randolph? I don't think for a second Walsh loves Randolph as much as you do.

PF: Amar'e Stoudemire
SF: Carmelo Anthony
C: Ronny Turiaf
SG: Kelenna Azubuike/Roger Mason
PG: Raymond Felton

That's a 55 win team.

PF: Amar'e Stoudemire
SF: Danilo Gallinari
C: Anthony Randolph
SG: Wilson Chandler
PG: Raymond Felton

That's a 40 win team.

you’re setting a ceiling on gallo and ar. that's your prerogative but you could be 100% wrong. they could both break out this year and we could be in MUCH better shape not making the trade.

Not setting any bar. I see what I see and Danilo Gallinari, Anthony Randolph and Wilson Chandler are 3 of the most overrated players in the entire league. I think if they weren't Knicks, most of you would agree. But you all have this habit of overrating young players. It was the same thing with Channing Frye, Trevor Ariza and David Lee. We had someone the other saying he wouldn't trade Gallo for any player except Kevin Durant. That's just crazy.

55 wins now? Why not just make it 70? Your just farting in the wind here.

Your desperate to make a trade that locks you in as the 3rd best team in your conference for the next 5 years. Great job of being a GM.

knickstorrents wrote:There is value in good players on rookie contracts. That is the best way to construct a championship team. Personally, I do not want to tie up my cap space in a player like Melo because he does not make his teammates better and he does not defend well, and his position is not that hard to fill (SF's are a dime a dozen). Would I rather have a combination of AR and Gallo on their rookie scale contracts vs. Melo on a maxed out, multi year contract? If you are managing a team in the NBA, the answer should be obvious.

If your goal is to just fill the seats and go 1-2 rounds in the playoffs, maxing out Melo to go along with Amare is a viable option. If you want to win a championship, you need to stockpile talent on reasonable contracts, and either homegrow a superstar or two, and/or fleece them from another team. That's the only way to go.

The path that Portland and OKC are going is the path that I envy. We've just been so impatient that it hasn't been possible. Miraculously Donnie has gotten us under the cap in 2 years with a team that has great potential. I like the path we are on. Now, we need to get a few lucky breaks. Trading for Carmelo is not a lucky break. Getting him as a FA is also questionable since it ties up our cap while we still don't have a real answer at Center, but is probably worth the risk (though I'm not a big fan and would be just as happy to not sign him at all, I think he messes up our chemistry).

Come the trade dead line Denver will get antsy and start fielding offers more seriously. By that time Chandler and Gallo may be putting up decent numbers which would make dealing for Melo more palatable from a Denver point of view. Also teams will be more apt to trade for Melo to get rid of bloated contracts on Denver in exchange for a Melo who may not resign with the team he is traded to. Many options will open up for Denver as the trade dead line comes closer but longer the Knicks wait less value Melo will bring back to Denver that is a given. denver might as well save itself the head ache and do Chandler, Curry and future number one and call it a day. They will start the season without headaches and just focus on basketball. No circus like LeBron, Bosh, Wade.