TMS wrote:

tkf wrote:

TMS wrote:if u think Ray Felton would average 16 & 10 in an MDA system, what kinds of numbers do u think CP3 could put up running the P&R w/the best P&R bigman in the NBA on every possession? to allow a player who is as yet a huge question mark like Anthony Randolph prevent you from acquiring the top PG in the game is foolish IMO.

it is not like paul is going to put up 32/20.... steve nash who is not far behind paul at all put up similar numbers to 16/10..

CP3 is a lot better than Ray Felton... to assume Felton would put up those kinds of numbers & then discount the numbers CP3 would put up in the same system w/the same players is a little hypocritical, no?... & i'm not accusing you tkf, you know i respect your views, but come on, let's be real here... all this excitement over a stopgap PG we signed for 2 years because we weren't willing to commit longterm to him... do you realize why we didn't sign him longterm? it's because we were holding out cap space so we could target Chris Paul in 2 years as a free agent... if you can get him now in a trade & still hold onto at least 1 of Gallo or AR in the process, i think it's a no brainer.

TMS, I guess my point here is, if felton averaged 16/10, which is possible in this system, although paul is the better player, how much better would his stats actually be. I agree if that is the case with felton, paul could easily be 22/11. fine, is that worth gutting the team? not sure about that... if this were just a gallo or AR and small pieces for paul. I would agree 100%, but this is not even the case.. not even close. NO will start with asking for damn near all of our prospects, and understandably so... if that is the case, then why even bother.. I just find these rumors annoying as I feel the knicks seemed to get used as leverage by most NBA players today...

crzymdups wrote:

tkf wrote:

playa2 wrote:

tkf wrote:

playa2 wrote:People are talking like Gallo has done more and shown people in the LEAGUE more than Randolph and that's alarming to me.

Some say CP3 if he comes to NY WE HAVE TO GIVE UP Randolph and Chandler ,but never Gallo and Chandler WHY IS THAT ?

In this system if both Gallup and Randolph remain healthy I think Randolph covers more ground(ALL AROUND) for the Knicks than any other player on the team including Amare.

the difference is that gallo stretches the floor.. with a PG like paul and an inside player like amare, that is worth more than a slash/midrange player... IMO

TKF what you left out is Randolph plays just as effective on both ends of the court, that's what I meant about all-around.

effective regarding what? gallo stretches the floor, that is more of a need with the knicks, AR does not.... gallo had a better year than AR did, end of story and right now seems to be a bit ahead of AR in development.. that is the truth...

Just as effective.. aR shoots 20% from three.. that is a huge part of the offense here.. that is not just as effective..

AR is 6'11" 240lbs. what on earth would you want him shooting 3pts for?

I am not saying I want him doing anything.. playa said he was just as effective. well gallo is also 6'11 and he can stretch the floor.. we have amare down low, and honestly wilson chandler can give you slashing and scoring that AR provides.. so to answer players question earlier. gallo would be more valued in this system because he brings a dimension that AR doesn't, in a system that heavily relies upon that skill..

AnubisADL wrote:I dont understand the Gallo versus Randolph stuff, these guys compliment each other nicely. We have two skilled 7 footers who aren't stiffs. Those guys could be a problem for the league in 2 years.

that is my point... playa is the one who brought this up.. his dislike for gallo won't even allow him to see the benefits of having both.... that is why discussing anything with him becomes a lost cause and a total waste regarding this issue...

MS wrote:There is no reason to make a trade. We have enough to get to the playoffs. If we make the move do we have a enough to win a title? The answer is NO!!

So why trade half your team for a guy that is coming off of knee surgery. It's bone on bone in his knee. He is a fantastic player and a game changer. But waiting a year and building value in Chandler, AR, Gallo and Felton makes more sense. We actually have the makings of a great team if we are patient for once.

I really believe Danillo took a big step at the end of the year. He know has a double team threat and a point guard to play with. If AR plays well we are going to beast people up front. Outside of the heat and bulls I think we can play with anyone. The Celtics are older and without perkins and allen there defense is going to take a huge hit. The hawks couldn't beat us last year and haven't improved. The cavs and bobcats are much worse. The bucks are the only team that improved and that's if you like gooden and maggette are upgrades.

Play with what you have. This team is going to suprise a lot of people

Agreed.

And the knee is a major concern, especially for a guy who relies on his first step so much. It would be nice to see him playing again at a high level before making any decisions.

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

tkf wrote:AR isn't KG, and if we had KG, we wouldn't need amare and we would not be comparing who to move... but to play along.. Dirk can shoot 3's... so where do we go from here?

I have no problems with moving Amare Dec 15th if need be. He is just insurance in case Gallo and Randolph dont pan out.

Obviously AR is not KG right now. You have to start somewhere though. AR has the tools to be a special defensive player. Gallo has the tools to be special offensive player.

AR doesnt need to become KG to be a great player for us. Gallo doesnt need to be Dirk to be a great player either.

right, so you have the makings of two potentially special players none the less.. so it goes back to briggs original point.. why gut the team, giving up this young talent, just to upgrade the PG position from felton to paul... and believe me, AR and gallo at this point would not be close to enough...

Im not disagreeing with you. Randolph and Gallo are all potential right now. Obviously Chris Paul has already proven he is the real deal. I just have a different vision of the team. If Gallo and Randolph even become all star quality players we will be rocking. Also if that happens you dont necessarily need a Chris Paul or Deron Williams running the offense. Randolph and Gallo are both good passers and can handle the ball. You could probably get by with a Felton type PG and a very good SG.

AnubisADL wrote:I dont understand the Gallo versus Randolph stuff, these guys compliment each other nicely. We have two skilled 7 footers who aren't stiffs. Those guys could be a problem for the league in 2 years.

I don't get it either. Why does it have to be a competition. They are two very different players that compliment each other well. They can both grow here and be good players or we can trade either one for a proven star. Doesn't matter to me. Either way, I don't know why we have to make it into a competition between the two. It's like when we had Houston and Sprewell. Everyone had to pick a side.

tkf wrote:

TMS wrote:

tkf wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:why in Gods name would i even consider trading either of these guys--and I wasnt so sure about Gallo at the start--that shows I play a straight shooter.

we have three superstars on the frontline--- Chris paul Give me Ray felton and let me keep my guys--find some impact bench players and go to war.

I am a big chris paul fan, I think he is the best pg in the league, but it is not like duhon is our PG now.. felton is.. Is paul that much better than felton to want to give up two young prospects like gallo and AR? I am with you briggs.

no one on this forum said they'd be willing to give up both Gallo & AR... but 1 of them? you'd be stupid not to, i'm sorry.

honestly TMS it would be equally as stupid to think that the hornets with all of the leverage would want to give up paul without getting both of those guys back.. I think that is briggs point.. If I am NO... I start out asking for gallo, AR, chandler, curry and a first round pick and the knicks would take back okafor... I mean, why wouldn't they.. it is not like paul can opt out at the end of the year...

Chris Paul is the one who asked to be traded... i fail to see how NO has all the leverage, but you can't expect to pilfer their franchise star for a package of Wilson Chandler, Toney Douglas & Eddy Curry, that's just ridiculously out of the question... you have to offer at least 1 kid w/the upside that AR or Gallo has... tell me, you wouldn't give up even 1 of those kids to land CP3?

iSergio wrote:Why are Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph considered these Class A can't miss prospects and Wilson Chandler isn't?

I'd be so curious to know if GM's around the league really do value Gallo and Randolph as much as some of you do.

If we do get Paul/Okafor, we can also just resign Chandler with his bird rights. For awhile now, we just threw Chandler in every trade scenario cause we assumed we wouldn't keep him, but if we get Paul now, Chandler can and should stay. Obviously I'd prefer to hold onto Gallo, but if NOH insists on getting both Gallo and Randolph, we can still pull Chandler out of the deal and keep him as our starting SF.

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

tkf wrote:

playa2 wrote:

tkf wrote:

playa2 wrote:People are talking like Gallo has done more and shown people in the LEAGUE more than Randolph and that's alarming to me.

Some say CP3 if he comes to NY WE HAVE TO GIVE UP Randolph and Chandler ,but never Gallo and Chandler WHY IS THAT ?

In this system if both Gallup and Randolph remain healthy I think Randolph covers more ground(ALL AROUND) for the Knicks than any other player on the team including Amare.

the difference is that gallo stretches the floor.. with a PG like paul and an inside player like amare, that is worth more than a slash/midrange player... IMO

TKF what you left out is Randolph plays just as effective on both ends of the court, that's what I meant about all-around.

effective regarding what? gallo stretches the floor, that is more of a need with the knicks, AR does not.... gallo had a better year than AR did, end of story and right now seems to be a bit ahead of AR in development.. that is the truth...

Just as effective.. aR shoots 20% from three.. that is a huge part of the offense here.. that is not just as effective..

AR is 6'11" 240lbs. what on earth would you want him shooting 3pts for?

I was thinking the same thing. KG cant shoot 3's either. I guess it is the D'Antoni effect.

AR isn't KG, and if we had KG, we wouldn't need amare and we would not be comparing who to move... but to play along.. Dirk can shoot 3's... so where do we go from here?

TKF have you ever once considered all the intangibles the Randolph brings that this teams so desperately needs that Gallup doesn't ? Seriously, have you watched the kid play when Nellie shut up and sat down and let the kid play.

He's a game changer defensively he's a midrange guy, he a superior finisher and an opposing force around the basket that nobody has been able to demonstrate for many yrs on our team. Stretching the defense is one thing, but playing an all around game is far more superior. I'm glad we have them both !!!

TMS wrote:

tkf wrote:

TMS wrote:

tkf wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:why in Gods name would i even consider trading either of these guys--and I wasnt so sure about Gallo at the start--that shows I play a straight shooter.

we have three superstars on the frontline--- Chris paul Give me Ray felton and let me keep my guys--find some impact bench players and go to war.

I am a big chris paul fan, I think he is the best pg in the league, but it is not like duhon is our PG now.. felton is.. Is paul that much better than felton to want to give up two young prospects like gallo and AR? I am with you briggs.

no one on this forum said they'd be willing to give up both Gallo & AR... but 1 of them? you'd be stupid not to, i'm sorry.

honestly TMS it would be equally as stupid to think that the hornets with all of the leverage would want to give up paul without getting both of those guys back.. I think that is briggs point.. If I am NO... I start out asking for gallo, AR, chandler, curry and a first round pick and the knicks would take back okafor... I mean, why wouldn't they.. it is not like paul can opt out at the end of the year...

Chris Paul is the one who asked to be traded... i fail to see how NO has all the leverage, but you can't expect to pilfer their franchise star for a package of Wilson Chandler, Toney Douglas & Eddy Curry, that's just ridiculously out of the question... you have to offer at least 1 kid w/the upside that AR or Gallo has... tell me, you wouldn't give up even 1 of those kids to land CP3?

The reason they have the leverage is b/c they don't have to do jack squad with Chris Paul right now, so their asking price is going to be high. However, as you wait it out, they are going to realize that teams aren't going to be willing to take on OK4s contract and that they may eventually lose Paul for nothing, so they are going to HAVE to take him out the equation and eventually lower Pauls price.

IMO, it's bad business to be instantly doing a trade with NO. If another team gives up everything they got for him, that's cool. We still have a good team, with a very good PG AND a chance to land Melo, AND a chance to land Paul when he becomes a free agent in two years.

We shouldn't be blowing our loads over this guy, especially considering his shaky knees.