AnubisADL wrote:

misterearl wrote:Winning

AnubisADL - let's be clear, Joe Dumars acquired Sheed because he can flat out play on both ends. Contribute to a winning team? You underestimate Wallace's role with the Pistons. 'Sheed not only defended centers and forwards, he spread the floor and provided emotional intensity - he was the best dancer in the pre game huddle and was the focal point of the introductions by PA announcer John Mason.

Sheed, as he did since his day at North Carolina, showed he could play winning basketball at an elite level with other elite players.

Funny how the Celtics wanted the elder Sheed more than Nate.

Rasheed was traded for Zeljko Rebraca, Bobby Sura, and first rounder. I don't think he was highly touted as a player conducive to winning games.

I think you missed a whole Detroit winning era.

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

misterearl wrote:Winning

AnubisADL - let's be clear, Joe Dumars acquired Sheed because he can flat out play on both ends. Contribute to a winning team? You underestimate Wallace's role with the Pistons. 'Sheed not only defended centers and forwards, he spread the floor and provided emotional intensity - he was the best dancer in the pre game huddle and was the focal point of the introductions by PA announcer John Mason.

Sheed, as he did since his day at North Carolina, showed he could play winning basketball at an elite level with other elite players.

Funny how the Celtics wanted the elder Sheed more than Nate.

Rasheed was traded for Zeljko Rebraca, Bobby Sura, and first rounder. I don't think he was highly touted as a player conducive to winning games.

I think you missed a whole Detroit winning era.

Thing about Sheed, outside of that one championship they won (where, as someone mentioned here, it was more the Lakers internal bickering than the Pistons dominance), he was considered a hot-head and almost a liability. They were very talented but only managed one Finals appearance. He might be a little overrated. Is just that he is tall and has more skillets than Nate, who is short, very short for the NBA.

loweyecue wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

misterearl wrote:Winning

AnubisADL - let's be clear, Joe Dumars acquired Sheed because he can flat out play on both ends. Contribute to a winning team? You underestimate Wallace's role with the Pistons. 'Sheed not only defended centers and forwards, he spread the floor and provided emotional intensity - he was the best dancer in the pre game huddle and was the focal point of the introductions by PA announcer John Mason.

Sheed, as he did since his day at North Carolina, showed he could play winning basketball at an elite level with other elite players.

Funny how the Celtics wanted the elder Sheed more than Nate.

Rasheed was traded for Zeljko Rebraca, Bobby Sura, and first rounder. I don't think he was highly touted as a player conducive to winning games.

I think you missed a whole Detroit winning era.

Thing about Sheed, outside of that one championship they won (where, as someone mentioned here, it was more the Lakers internal bickering than the Pistons dominance), he was considered a hot-head and almost a liability. They were very talented but only managed one Finals appearance. He might be a little overrated. Is just that he is tall and has more skillets than Nate, who is short, very short for the NBA.

Go find tapes of Portland Trailblazers versus Lakers in the WCF (late 90's), overrated he was NOT!

Okay maybe wrong word, but his attitude was always suspect and one wonders if he could have achieved more if he wasn't such a jerk-face.

Marv wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nate was resigned by the Knicks after MDA had coached him the previous season. Do you think Walsh would resign a guy that MDA views as having such poor character he that he would banish him from the team? I think the reality is that MDA cannot coach guys who rock the boat in any way. I also think he struggles to communicate with that type of player and if allowed just banishes them until they are traded or waived. This is a major fault and puts Walsh in a very bad position. I think Walsh needs to either fire him or make him play Nate. There should be a balance of power between the coach and gm. I think Gallo is a Knick because of the coach. I think Nate and Dlee were resigned with the coaches blessing. Walsh needs to find out if MDA can coach anyone other than an all star level player with tremendous character.

they probably gave nate one more chance, having little to lose with a one-year deal. he failed early on this one.

i'm honestly surprised and disappointed at several of the comments here i'm reading so far, other than the two "good riddance" comments (not surprised) i said to myself someone would write as soon as i read that nate wanted to be traded.

look, i don't really get what is so shocking to folks.

i find it somewhat ironic that many fans here have been screaming for accountability, but when someone like nate who has gotten oodles of chances to show he has matured -- clearly one of the major reasons the knicks re-signed him, as well as as an asset -- and still has not show significant improvement, now mda and walsh are being unfair, and this is marbury part duex?

can i just say...

WOW.

and maybe we should rename this the nypost knicks fan forum.

I'm really disappointed in us as fans if we can't see that nate had to know that he has had multiple chances, was on a short leash, and then begged to come back to prove himself...but still has not...

what were folks expecting?

i am a huge proponent of giving players chances on a team, which mda clearly did with nate, and used a lot of well supported ideas about how to get the most out of someone...like positive re-enforcement...

meanwhile we're playing much better, 5-3 since an atrocious start, and we can only look at what we're on "track" to have as a record in basically a throw away year, and where we are looking no where near like the team that started 1-9.

are things perfect or good?

not saying that, but i do not see as much nuance as i would expect from folks here.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:I wonder sometimes about the thinking of many Knick fans. We get a coach that has a great resume with wins, success getting players to excel above expectations ie Nash, Diaw & Bell, he did nothing bit win with a team that was never the best talent in the West and in a dispute with a player about playing winning ball many fans side with Nate? What the hell has he ever done to deserve the benefit of the doubt? This is Coach number THREE that has had the same issues with him! Guys keep bringing up MDA's coaching style and other nonsense as if that has anything to do with Nate acting like a professional.

It's been 8 GAMES! That's not a long time. Now a coach can't discipline a player using PT as the rod? When was there a specific limit on the number of games a player can be in the doghouse? This MDA bashing is BS! I'm tired of whinnig Knick fans they don't deserve DW or MDA! Give them some other clowns that know nothing about winning! The kid was benched cuz he doesn't understand what kind of mentality it takes to be a winner! Case closed! MDA tried, Zeke tried and LB tried. ENOUGH!!!

It's not the point...No one argues against Nate being banished...We question how it's done...Could it not have been done in a manner where some value could be extracted from a trade...Does MDA's amd Walshs' examplary resume is such that no questions can be asked of their actions...

i call b.s.

nix you are 100% right, and i am ashamed to be a knicks fans sometimes over this kind of silly c-o-n-spirasy stuff and "how it's done" claims...

how it's done?

how could it have "been done" to get value from a player who everyone knows what he is?

and sorry, nate isn't banished, he's BENCHED.

Marbury was banished, so let's get things straight here.

nate is not doing a good job for helping the team win, so you want him to play?

seriously, what is wrong with us?????

they brought nate back to give him one last chance, and there was very little interest from other teams, so we hear from the reports. he has failed again, now a year older. as one gets older the arguments about maturity start to become more about something other than age. ask steph.

and please stay away from the "you can't criticize" walsh or mda pov.

that is not the point, nor does it defend poor arguments that appear to have little perspective about nate's situation and history, as well as the team's needs.

AnubisADL wrote:

misterearl wrote:All knuckleheads are not created equal

"He is a knucklehead like Rasheed Wallace who doesn't get into trouble off the court but cant control himself on the court at times."

AnubisADL - Nate is an attention getter with great hops and a decent jump shot.

Rasheed Wallace is a fluid, sweet shooting, big man who is a foot and a half taller. Sheed also happens to a short fuse with officials and owns a sparkly championship ring

Sheed was not receiving much love when he was a "Jail" Blazer. Detroit acquired him for pennies due to his bad image and he showed he can contribute to a winning team.

sheed was also a major key to a team that should have/almost made the finals.

the dude got t's, but he never did the kinds of things nate does on the sidelines.

wallace had a temper, and had shown he had what it takes to contribute to a winning team.

BasketballJones wrote:

PresIke wrote:

Marv wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nate was resigned by the Knicks after MDA had coached him the previous season. Do you think Walsh would resign a guy that MDA views as having such poor character he that he would banish him from the team? I think the reality is that MDA cannot coach guys who rock the boat in any way. I also think he struggles to communicate with that type of player and if allowed just banishes them until they are traded or waived. This is a major fault and puts Walsh in a very bad position. I think Walsh needs to either fire him or make him play Nate. There should be a balance of power between the coach and gm. I think Gallo is a Knick because of the coach. I think Nate and Dlee were resigned with the coaches blessing. Walsh needs to find out if MDA can coach anyone other than an all star level player with tremendous character.

they probably gave nate one more chance, having little to lose with a one-year deal. he failed early on this one.

i'm honestly surprised and disappointed at several of the comments here i'm reading so far, other than the one "good riddance" (not surprised) i said to myself someone would write as soon as i read that nate wanted to be traded.

look, i don't really get what is so shocking to folks.

i find it somewhat ironic that many fans here have been screaming for accountability, but when someone like nate who has gotten oodles of chances to show he has matured -- clearly one of the major reasons the knicks re-signed him, as well as as an asset -- and still has not show significant improvement, now mda and walsh are being unfair, and this is marbury part duex?

can i just say...

WOW.

and maybe we should rename this the nypost knicks fan forum.

I'm really disappointed in us as fans if we can't see that nate had to know that he has had multiple chances, was on a short leash, and then begged to come back to prove himself...but still has not...

what were folks expecting?

i am a huge proponent of giving players chances on a team, which mda clearly did with nate, and used a lot of well supported ideas about how to get the most out of someone...like positive re-enforcement...

meanwhile we're playing much better, 5-3 since an atrocious start, and we can only look at what we're on "track" to have as a record in basically a throw away year, and where we are looking no where near like the team that started 1-9.

are things perfect or good?

not saying that, but i do not see as much nuance as i would expect from folks here.

Why paint us all with the same broad brush?

Oh, maybe you have all the people who agree with you on "ignore".

haha...

not everyone bballjones...

just more than i was even expecting.

i was (perhaps over) reacting, since there is no way all here are like that.

presike - I feel you homeskillet. In my opinion, Nate's downward slide started when he was pulled over this summer in a traffic stop. Instead of showing some remorse, he joked and complained about it on his Twitter feed while waiting in his car.

The shot at the wrong basket, along with the losing start, was simply the last straw.

Coaches are compelled to make lineup changes when combinations are not working. D'Antoni happens to make a change that is not popular, yet one that yields positive results where it matters most - on the court - and a segment of fans and writers want to second guess the past and the future. If there is a choice between Nate and Sheed, I choose Sheed. Period. End of story.

I dare anyone to pick Nate. Then cite valid reasons why.

While "Nate-Gate" may make a juicy headline for The Post, I could care less about his agent. Aaron Goodwin is paid based on the earnings of his clients. Goodwin has an investment to protect and a mortgage to pay.

Nate is no more entitled to minutes than Marcus Landry.

I dig the Knicks eight man rotation.

nixluva wrote:What has Nate really done to show he knows what it takes to win? We're losing and so long as he's making baskets and celebrating he's happy! MDA may not be for everyone with his style but his PHX teams were very professional and that's what he wants here. People think he's soft and it's really not true. He wants to coach MEN!!! Nate acts like a kid and got punished cuz he deserved it!

Nate's exit interview he was asked to show more maturity and professionalism and he didn't change a thing.

I agree 100%. People definitely do say he's soft (I may have also) because maybe defense isn't his TOP priority. But at least he's tough with his players, especially Nate. He hasn't done anything to contribute to the Knicks winning besides just looking to get his points. He hasn't matured on bit since his rookie season, and its gotten really annoying for the fans and the organization. What D'antoni is doing to Nate is NO different than what the great Pat Riley would have done with him. We should be happy as fans that this type of behavior and a lack of a professional attitude will not be acceptable.

"Fair or not, the NBA is very much aware of Robinson’s reputation and predicament. They know he’s somewhat of a wildcard on and off court. They also know he’s looking at the next few months as an audition for a long-term contract.

GMs will be always weary of adding a player with such a personal agenda. Remember, over the summer, there was little interest in Robinson, who was a restricted free agent and had no tangible offers except to re-up with New York.

A buyout could happen, though. The Knicks wouldn’t have to take back a contract and Robinson would get to pick his next team - most likely, with a pro-rated one year deal - before hitting the open market as an unrestricted free agent in July. Of course, this hinges on Robinson swallowing his pride and agreeing to discount a portion of his 2009-10 salary."

- Oly Sandor

Nate also earns a $1M bonus if the Knicks make the playoffs.

If Aaron Goodwin primary interest is to find his client a new home this season, he will also take a pay cut to his 12 to 18 per cent fee.

PresIke wrote:

Marv wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nate was resigned by the Knicks after MDA had coached him the previous season. Do you think Walsh would resign a guy that MDA views as having such poor character he that he would banish him from the team? I think the reality is that MDA cannot coach guys who rock the boat in any way. I also think he struggles to communicate with that type of player and if allowed just banishes them until they are traded or waived. This is a major fault and puts Walsh in a very bad position. I think Walsh needs to either fire him or make him play Nate. There should be a balance of power between the coach and gm. I think Gallo is a Knick because of the coach. I think Nate and Dlee were resigned with the coaches blessing. Walsh needs to find out if MDA can coach anyone other than an all star level player with tremendous character.

they probably gave nate one more chance, having little to lose with a one-year deal. he failed early on this one.

i'm honestly surprised and disappointed at several of the comments here i'm reading so far, other than the two "good riddance" comments (not surprised) i said to myself someone would write as soon as i read that nate wanted to be traded.

look, i don't really get what is so shocking to folks.

i find it somewhat ironic that many fans here have been screaming for accountability, but when someone like nate who has gotten oodles of chances to show he has matured -- clearly one of the major reasons the knicks re-signed him, as well as as an asset -- and still has not show significant improvement, now mda and walsh are being unfair, and this is marbury part duex?

can i just say...

WOW.

and maybe we should rename this the nypost knicks fan forum.

I'm really disappointed in us as fans if we can't see that nate had to know that he has had multiple chances, was on a short leash, and then begged to come back to prove himself...but still has not...

what were folks expecting?

i am a huge proponent of giving players chances on a team, which mda clearly did with nate, and used a lot of well supported ideas about how to get the most out of someone...like positive re-enforcement...

meanwhile we're playing much better, 5-3 since an atrocious start, and we can only look at what we're on "track" to have as a record in basically a throw away year, and where we are looking no where near like the team that started 1-9.

are things perfect or good?

not saying that, but i do not see as much nuance as i would expect from folks here.

Nate was given multiply chances???..Really, to do what???...How do you know this or the reason why Nate in'st playing...Point me in the direction so I too can be enlightened...Exactly how many chances did MDA give Nate and what were those chances to do???

U also mentioned posters making "silly conspiracy stuff" after answering a post I made...What conspiracy stuff if u dont mind me asking???