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Donnie - stop messing with the fanbase and FA's in general
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BigSm00th
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9/9/2009  11:54 PM
A John Wallace GM'ed 2009 roster could have looked like

PG: Bayless (Randolph is just to easy to beat Donnie up on)
SG: The Mayor (assume Craw was traded like GS did to ATL)
SF: James Johnson
PF: ZBo,
C: Darko, Jeffries

Bench: Beaubois, Mardy Collins, Balkman

Assuming that you couldn't pull off anything decent, you'd have a roster like that.



i wish i had seen this sooner! that roster sucks. mardy collins? balkman? i dont think either of those guys will even be in the nba this year. zach randolph is the worst contract in the nba, worse than even curry. jeffires is playing backup C? LOL, this is a joke. the rooster has played one year, he could wind up being a better scorer than bayless, who did nothing last year.
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JohnWallace44
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9/10/2009  12:49 AM
Posted by BigSm00th:

A John Wallace GM'ed 2009 roster could have looked like

PG: Bayless (Randolph is just to easy to beat Donnie up on)
SG: The Mayor (assume Craw was traded like GS did to ATL)
SF: James Johnson
PF: ZBo,
C: Darko, Jeffries

Bench: Beaubois, Mardy Collins, Balkman

Assuming that you couldn't pull off anything decent, you'd have a roster like that.



i wish i had seen this sooner! that roster sucks. mardy collins? balkman? i dont think either of those guys will even be in the nba this year. zach randolph is the worst contract in the nba, worse than even curry. jeffires is playing backup C? LOL, this is a joke. the rooster has played one year, he could wind up being a better scorer than bayless, who did nothing last year.

Bro, you're ignoring one little detail there. Those are conservative player move approximations based on a couple of simple changes. Don't take that as my ideal roster.

You're right UK board. I don't know jack. Briggs doesn't know jack. Donnie's been great. LeBron and the whole Dream Team are coming next Summer and I'll look foolish.

Sorry for wasting your time.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
GKFv2
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9/10/2009  12:57 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by BigSm00th:

A John Wallace GM'ed 2009 roster could have looked like

PG: Bayless (Randolph is just to easy to beat Donnie up on)
SG: The Mayor (assume Craw was traded like GS did to ATL)
SF: James Johnson
PF: ZBo,
C: Darko, Jeffries

Bench: Beaubois, Mardy Collins, Balkman

Assuming that you couldn't pull off anything decent, you'd have a roster like that.



i wish i had seen this sooner! that roster sucks. mardy collins? balkman? i dont think either of those guys will even be in the nba this year. zach randolph is the worst contract in the nba, worse than even curry. jeffires is playing backup C? LOL, this is a joke. the rooster has played one year, he could wind up being a better scorer than bayless, who did nothing last year.

Bro, you're ignoring one little detail there. Those are conservative player move approximations based on a couple of simple changes. Don't take that as my ideal roster.

You're right UK board. I don't know jack. Briggs doesn't know jack. Donnie's been great. LeBron and the whole Dream Team are coming next Summer and I'll look foolish.

Sorry for wasting your time.


Thank you, Rick Brunson.
joec32033
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9/10/2009  5:30 AM
JW....couple of things. I liked Bayless too but your roster still has both Zbo and Curry on it. That is like $30 mil right there and neither expire until 2011. I don't know your bench, but it seems you are banking on the 2011 FA class? Where fewer top tier FA are available?
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JohnWallace44
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9/10/2009  10:03 AM
Posted by joec32033:

JW....couple of things. I liked Bayless too but your roster still has both Zbo and Curry on it. That is like $30 mil right there and neither expire until 2011. I don't know your bench, but it seems you are banking on the 2011 FA class? Where fewer top tier FA are available?

Again, the consensus picks at the time we drafted Gallo were Bayless, Gordon and Randolph. If you don't think Gordon or Randolph would have been better picks, or Lopez or Thompson, or McGee for that matter, then you're pure homer.

I'm taking it easy on Donnie by showing a scenario starting with Bayless.

Don't critique this list as if its my ideal roster folks.

I think he's done a crap job. Just my opinion. Take it for what its worth.

I don't like the LeBron slurping. We're like the dorky kid sending love notes to the cool chick in school for years, thinking that she'll come around at some point. My opinion is that we'll just end up with a restraining order.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Bippity10
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9/10/2009  10:05 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by BigSm00th:

A John Wallace GM'ed 2009 roster could have looked like

PG: Bayless (Randolph is just to easy to beat Donnie up on)
SG: The Mayor (assume Craw was traded like GS did to ATL)
SF: James Johnson
PF: ZBo,
C: Darko, Jeffries

Bench: Beaubois, Mardy Collins, Balkman

Assuming that you couldn't pull off anything decent, you'd have a roster like that.



i wish i had seen this sooner! that roster sucks. mardy collins? balkman? i dont think either of those guys will even be in the nba this year. zach randolph is the worst contract in the nba, worse than even curry. jeffires is playing backup C? LOL, this is a joke. the rooster has played one year, he could wind up being a better scorer than bayless, who did nothing last year.

Bro, you're ignoring one little detail there. Those are conservative player move approximations based on a couple of simple changes. Don't take that as my ideal roster.

You're right UK board. I don't know jack. Briggs doesn't know jack. Donnie's been great. LeBron and the whole Dream Team are coming next Summer and I'll look foolish.

Sorry for wasting your time.

I think you and Briggs do know jack and are well thought out. That being said, Donnie's moves(although targeting Lebron) are not an all or nothing proposition. If you step back from your outrage you are looking at a roster with 2 lottery picks, 2-4 recent first rounders and loads of cap space in 2010 and 2011. If Gallo and Hill were proven commodities you would be creaming in your shorts right now.
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nixluva
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9/10/2009  11:16 AM
IMO Gallo and Hill are just what we need. Tall, long and athletic guys that can shoot create their own shot and have some defensive potential.
I just didn't see anything better about Bayless, Derozan and Sam Young as prospects. I liked Balkman's energy but he's easily replaced. I'm optimistic about the addition of Darko, but if he flops no biggie, he'll be gone and we just move on to the 2010 FA bonanza.

[Edited by - nixluva on 09-10-2009 11:19 AM]
PresIke
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9/10/2009  11:50 AM
Posted by fishmike:

can we just agree to add Sessions to the list of Brigg's player that have set us back a decade by not signing?
Michael Redd
Rodney White
Abdur Rahim
Amare Stoudemire (hey, gotta be fair)
Andew Bynum
Marcus Williams
Anthony Randolph
Ramon Sessions

... and the band played on

also...

kostos koufos
bj mullens
thabeet
dujaun blair

i feel like i've left some others out...
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
martin
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9/10/2009  11:50 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by joec32033:

JW....couple of things. I liked Bayless too but your roster still has both Zbo and Curry on it. That is like $30 mil right there and neither expire until 2011. I don't know your bench, but it seems you are banking on the 2011 FA class? Where fewer top tier FA are available?

Again, the consensus picks at the time we drafted Gallo were Bayless, Gordon and Randolph. If you don't think Gordon or Randolph would have been better picks, or Lopez or Thompson, or McGee for that matter, then you're pure homer.

I'm taking it easy on Donnie by showing a scenario starting with Bayless.

Don't critique this list as if its my ideal roster folks.

I think he's done a crap job. Just my opinion. Take it for what its worth.

I don't like the LeBron slurping. We're like the dorky kid sending love notes to the cool chick in school for years, thinking that she'll come around at some point. My opinion is that we'll just end up with a restraining order.

Donnie was handed a 20-win roster full of bloated contracts. You don't turn that into gold in 2 years.

I've asked you about 5 times now to provide an alternate to Donnie's plan and you haven't really done so, and yet you keep saying that Donnie has done a crap job. Provide an alternate solution that is reasonable to what Donnie could have done, otherwise, really, you are just whining.

The only LeBron slurping that I have seen has been done by the media and by you, who keeps repeating LeBron without any regard to cap flexibility or any other free agents in 2010 or 2011.
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BRIGGS
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9/10/2009  12:19 PM
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by fishmike:

can we just agree to add Sessions to the list of Brigg's player that have set us back a decade by not signing?
Michael Redd
Rodney White
Abdur Rahim
Amare Stoudemire (hey, gotta be fair)
Andew Bynum
Marcus Williams
Anthony Randolph
Ramon Sessions

... and the band played on

also...

kostos koufos
bj mullens
thabeet
dujaun blair

i feel like i've left some others out...

Let some of these guys play. Dejuan Blair is better than Hill--I dont even have to think hard about it.
RIP Crushalot😞
JohnWallace44
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9/10/2009  12:29 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by joec32033:

JW....couple of things. I liked Bayless too but your roster still has both Zbo and Curry on it. That is like $30 mil right there and neither expire until 2011. I don't know your bench, but it seems you are banking on the 2011 FA class? Where fewer top tier FA are available?

Again, the consensus picks at the time we drafted Gallo were Bayless, Gordon and Randolph. If you don't think Gordon or Randolph would have been better picks, or Lopez or Thompson, or McGee for that matter, then you're pure homer.

I'm taking it easy on Donnie by showing a scenario starting with Bayless.

Don't critique this list as if its my ideal roster folks.

I think he's done a crap job. Just my opinion. Take it for what its worth.

I don't like the LeBron slurping. We're like the dorky kid sending love notes to the cool chick in school for years, thinking that she'll come around at some point. My opinion is that we'll just end up with a restraining order.

Donnie was handed a 20-win roster full of bloated contracts. You don't turn that into gold in 2 years.

I've asked you about 5 times now to provide an alternate to Donnie's plan and you haven't really done so, and yet you keep saying that Donnie has done a crap job. Provide an alternate solution that is reasonable to what Donnie could have done, otherwise, really, you are just whining.

The only LeBron slurping that I have seen has been done by the media and by you, who keeps repeating LeBron without any regard to cap flexibility or any other free agents in 2010 or 2011.

Martin, you have to be kidding me. I've put out at least a couple of scenarios where things could have gone differently without taking any leaps whatsoever.

What FA's am I leaving out for 2010?

We give Joe Johnson a max deal, then its out of desperation. That would be a dumb move. You watch that guy, and he holds the ball for 15 seconds of every possession.

Manu's not leaving, Dirk's not leaving. Wade will go to Chicago if he leaves. Bosh is no good.

You want Amare? Added to what? He has said he doesn't want to play center. That's what he'd be here.

If you look back at my posts from before the drafts, I was looking for Bayless/Randolph and Derozan/Holiday. I just think those guys will prove out to be much better prospects than what we ended up with. If Isiah had picked Gallo over Bayless, Randolph, McGee, Gordon, and Lopez, people would be losing it.

I think there are 2011 options out there that we could shoot for as far as FA's and we'd have more leverage with Curry and Jeffries gone.

There also will be franchises in huge financial trouble that we can leverage for a favorable trade. Detroit for instance.

Let's hear the masterful moves that Donnie has made Martin. Where are they? What's the best thing you can say about him? That he traded two 20+ point scorers for a bag of balls? Congrats. Both of them were traded again after struggling with the Clips and GS, so clearly that wasn't as impossible as we thought.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
fishmike
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9/10/2009  12:54 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by fishmike:

can we just agree to add Sessions to the list of Brigg's player that have set us back a decade by not signing?
Michael Redd
Rodney White
Abdur Rahim
Amare Stoudemire (hey, gotta be fair)
Andew Bynum
Marcus Williams
Anthony Randolph
Ramon Sessions

... and the band played on

also...

kostos koufos
bj mullens
thabeet
dujaun blair

i feel like i've left some others out...

Let some of these guys play. Dejuan Blair is better than Hill--I dont even have to think hard about it.
I would have to agree, in college... but there have been like 2 6'6 PFs who have made it in the NBA, Barlkey and our old buddy Clarence Weatherspoon. Maybe you can add Malik Rose to that list, he had a nice run. Brian Cardinal?

Jordan Hill is everything Briggs likes in players. As long ( 7'2 wingspan) as BJ Muellens, although Hill was faster in the 3/4 sprint. He's strong benching as much as BJ as well and only 7 shy of Blair. He's got "springs in his legs" as a 35 max vert is fantastic for a bigman (3 inches more than BJ). He's only played org ball for a few years but progressed to an 18ppg 12rpg 2 blocks and 55% player by his junior year.

In fact... if your looking from the Brigg's school of drafting Hill is EASILY the best player available.

Except of course for one huge reason...

The Knicks picked him.
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JohnWallace44
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9/10/2009  1:33 PM
Fish, watch Hill play and tell me he has a 35" vertical.

Dude gets off the ground about as well as I do. Its not pretty.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
BigSm00th
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9/10/2009  1:49 PM
JW, who cares what Hill's vertical is. He's 6'11" and can run baseline to baseline.

I also love how you base so much of your purported "argument" in complete and utter Fantasy land.

"Manu's not leaving, Dirk's not leaving. Wade will go to Chicago if he leaves. Bosh is no good." -- You have no idea where manu, dirk, wade, any of these guys will go.

So your point is, what, that Walsh should have enough cap room to sign 2 guys at the same time? I agree with you that Walsh hasn't made an overwhelming move yet, but as Martin said, when you get handed literally one of the worst nba rosters of all-time, you need patience. Your entire "scenario B" is hinged on Jerryd Bayless (who averaged 4 points and played in 53 games last year) over Gallo (who averaged 6 points a game but played in only 28) and keeping Zach Randolph and Curry until 2011, that way we can offer all our money that year. I'd rather have Gallo, cap space in 2010 and Z-Bo off the team. Plus, by waiting until 2011 you miss the opportunity to sign LeBron, inarguably the biggest free agent of the decade, all so you can end the supposed "lebron slurping." Guess what, LeBron turned down another contract extension this offseason and has been on record about how he has loyalty only to Akron (where he is from) and not to Cleveland (a city near Akron). LeBron is going to be a free agent, and the Knicks will have enough money to offer him a max deal. How can you say that's a bad plan?

(I can already imagine your response, please don't tell me about Bayless or Anthony f-ing randolph, please).

[Edited by - bigsm00th on 09-10-2009 10:52 AM]
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Bippity10
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9/10/2009  2:06 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Fish, watch Hill play and tell me he has a 35" vertical.

Dude gets off the ground about as well as I do. Its not pretty.

I don't know how many times you've watched him play, but the man can jump.
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fishmike
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9/10/2009  2:13 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Fish, watch Hill play and tell me he has a 35" vertical.

Dude gets off the ground about as well as I do. Its not pretty.
i dont make comments on anyone I havent watched played.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
JohnWallace44
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9/10/2009  2:29 PM
Anyone remember this game?

What you'll see here is a player Donnie could have drafted completely whipping a player that he did draft.



Look, I just don't get how Donnie can just say, give me two years with zero expectations and then we'll see what we can do. Plenty of GM's get bad squads to work with. This is a big boy's game.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
BigSm00th
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9/10/2009  2:40 PM
LOL, i'm not going to watch 8 minutes, i watched the first 2 and hill and mcgee both were playing well.

john wallace, you are the exact person isiah referred to when he came to NY and said "you can't rebuild in NY there is no patience." here you are lambasting walsh and offering up bayless over gallo as evidence that he failed. if two years of zero expectations gives me a marquee player in less than a year, fine. i'd rather do that than just wallow in medicrioty for ANOTHER decade.
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BRIGGS
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9/10/2009  2:43 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by fishmike:

can we just agree to add Sessions to the list of Brigg's player that have set us back a decade by not signing?
Michael Redd
Rodney White
Abdur Rahim
Amare Stoudemire (hey, gotta be fair)
Andew Bynum
Marcus Williams
Anthony Randolph
Ramon Sessions

... and the band played on

also...

kostos koufos
bj mullens
thabeet
dujaun blair

i feel like i've left some others out...

Let some of these guys play. Dejuan Blair is better than Hill--I dont even have to think hard about it.
I would have to agree, in college... but there have been like 2 6'6 PFs who have made it in the NBA, Barlkey and our old buddy Clarence Weatherspoon. Maybe you can add Malik Rose to that list, he had a nice run. Brian Cardinal?

Jordan Hill is everything Briggs likes in players. As long ( 7'2 wingspan) as BJ Muellens, although Hill was faster in the 3/4 sprint. He's strong benching as much as BJ as well and only 7 shy of Blair. He's got "springs in his legs" as a 35 max vert is fantastic for a bigman (3 inches more than BJ). He's only played org ball for a few years but progressed to an 18ppg 12rpg 2 blocks and 55% player by his junior year.

In fact... if your looking from the Brigg's school of drafting Hill is EASILY the best player available.

Except of course for one huge reason...

The Knicks picked him.

I don't dislike Jordan Hill --he just wasnt my best player available--Demar Derozan was. I am not in the Jordan Hill scks club or anything but I am also not in the camp that he is some kind of 20-10 player and he is NOT the next Amare Stoudemire. I will be rooting for him hard to succeed and hopefully beat my expectation level.
RIP Crushalot😞
BigSm00th
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9/10/2009  2:46 PM
briggs i agree with you about hill not being a 20/10 player. fact of the matter is he is 6'11" and is a very mobile big man, which is an absolute must in this offense. the knicks desperately needed size. you wanted derozan (even with the glut at 2/3 you got gallo and chandler already?), i wanted brandon jennings, hopefully we can just have a productive rookie campaign for a change and see him put up like 14 points 8 rebounds 1.5 blocks.
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Donnie - stop messing with the fanbase and FA's in general
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