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ESPN: Sessions and T'wolves agree to offer sheet
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MS
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9/9/2009  10:12 AM
Comparing Douglas in college to Sessions is just ****ing stupid. They are the same age. While Session was playing against men, Douglas was a man 23 playing against 18 and 19 year olds.

I like the skill set on the kid. 4 million is not a lot of money, Duhon is a solid backup off the bench, but if we are going to go into the season with the same team I would have rather brought in someone that can break down the defense and find guys easily.

The goal this year is to make Chandler, Gallo, Curry, Lee, Hill all look better than they really are, and I think Sessions does that better than Duhon.

I understand the logic of not wanting to tie up money, but if Lee isn't going to be resigned we have a little extra space next season any way and the more players you can throw out there the better.
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djsunyc
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9/9/2009  10:33 AM
not signing sessions (to a reasonable deal) or lee or nate or anybody else means...ALL IN FOR 2010...

if there were ANY thoughts...ANY thoughts for 2011, then someone would've been signed long term b/c their contract does not impact 2011 as jj/curry are off the books then. so please drop all this 2011/2012 stuff. it's all about next summer.

as for sessions - sorry folks but i am not listening to any of your scouting reports on the guy...to really know what a player can do, you have to watch him for a long period of time. something none of you done. so right now, you are going by pure stats or watching him do his thing vs. a d'antoni defense.
djsunyc
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9/9/2009  10:35 AM
the real question is whether you're confident in walsh and d'antoni's talent evaluation.
fishmike
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9/9/2009  10:51 AM
Posted by MS:
4 million is not a lot of money, Duhon is a solid backup off the bench,
which is exaclty what Buck fans said about Sessions. Briggs was nice enough to post the link from the Bucks message board. 30% say let him walk. Of the other 70% half want to keep him because $4mm is a decent salary for "a good 3rd or 4th guard." The other half just didnt want to lose a player for nothing.

So again... While Sessions is a good player he's regarded by his own fan base (the people that watch every game) as a good backup or complimentary player. WHY WHY WHY are we putting the one chance we have to get a star or franchise player in the last 20 years at risk for Ramon Sessions? WHY.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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9/9/2009  10:53 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by MS:
4 million is not a lot of money, Duhon is a solid backup off the bench,
which is exaclty what Buck fans said about Sessions. Briggs was nice enough to post the link from the Bucks message board. 30% say let him walk. Of the other 70% half want to keep him because $4mm is a decent salary for "a good 3rd or 4th guard." The other half just didnt want to lose a player for nothing.

So again... While Sessions is a good player he's regarded by his own fan base (the people that watch every game) as a good backup or complimentary player. WHY WHY WHY are we putting the one chance we have to get a star or franchise player in the last 20 years at risk for Ramon Sessions? WHY.

sorry fish but 75% of this forum doesn't like nate or lee and constantly rip them so even listening to another team's forum is a trivial exercise. it really comes down to watching the guy play alot and not having any personal biases in terms of critiquing his play.
Allanfan20
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9/9/2009  11:05 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by MS:
4 million is not a lot of money, Duhon is a solid backup off the bench,
which is exaclty what Buck fans said about Sessions. Briggs was nice enough to post the link from the Bucks message board. 30% say let him walk. Of the other 70% half want to keep him because $4mm is a decent salary for "a good 3rd or 4th guard." The other half just didnt want to lose a player for nothing.

So again... While Sessions is a good player he's regarded by his own fan base (the people that watch every game) as a good backup or complimentary player. WHY WHY WHY are we putting the one chance we have to get a star or franchise player in the last 20 years at risk for Ramon Sessions? WHY.

sorry fish but 75% of this forum doesn't like nate or lee and constantly rip them so even listening to another team's forum is a trivial exercise. it really comes down to watching the guy play alot and not having any personal biases in terms of critiquing his play.

I definitely disagree with this in terms of our board. However, if you have never seen him play and you want info about a guy, but can't get access to any of his games. The next best thing to do is look for info from people who have watched him a lot.

If most of the guys on the board are saying keep him at a cheap price, so he could be a backup, that seems fair.

I wouldn't be messing up 2010 for Ramon Sessions either.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
fishmike
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9/9/2009  11:09 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by MS:
4 million is not a lot of money, Duhon is a solid backup off the bench,
which is exaclty what Buck fans said about Sessions. Briggs was nice enough to post the link from the Bucks message board. 30% say let him walk. Of the other 70% half want to keep him because $4mm is a decent salary for "a good 3rd or 4th guard." The other half just didnt want to lose a player for nothing.

So again... While Sessions is a good player he's regarded by his own fan base (the people that watch every game) as a good backup or complimentary player. WHY WHY WHY are we putting the one chance we have to get a star or franchise player in the last 20 years at risk for Ramon Sessions? WHY.

sorry fish but 75% of this forum doesn't like nate or lee and constantly rip them so even listening to another team's forum is a trivial exercise. it really comes down to watching the guy play alot and not having any personal biases in terms of critiquing his play.
same thing with their forum... the question isnt whether they are liked. They question is do you match a reasonable offer or let them walk. Thats my whole point. 70% of Bucks fans werent in love with Sessions, they just said Bucks should match a $4mm a year offer. Most of the reasons were he would make a good bench player or that they could trade him later.

The ONLY reason people around here would be willing to let Nate or Lee walk is because of 2010. If someone offered Lee 5 years and $45mm and Nate 4 years and $25mm of course people here would want to match. I bet we would be MORE than 70% dont you?

Bucks arent in the FA market next year, and 30% STILL say let Sessions walk for nothing because who needs you. Doesnt that say something? For NOTHING (also known as nada and zilch)

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
RemBee76
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9/9/2009  11:15 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

the real question is whether you're confident in walsh and d'antoni's talent evaluation.

No, I don’t think that is the question.

This isn't about whose scouting report you trust. It’s a fair assumption to make that Sessions would have some success in the D'Antoni offense and that he is worth $16 million over 4 years. If both D'Antoni and Walsh thought so, none of the amateur scouts here are better qualified than they are to make that evaluation no matter how much they claim they have watched him. It’s why posters trying to tear down Sessions as a “second round talent” are missing the point.

It’s about the plan for the future. That’s where we differ. I think our dropping bad contracts and clearing the decks goes hand-in-hand with building a Team centered around a promising young core. No FA is going to want to go to a team without a future, and I don’t think Hill, Douglas, Gallinari and Chandler are enough. We acquired D’Antoni to establish a strong team concept and turn around the losing culture that had set in at MSG. I don’t think we are doing that by putting a team of 1 yr contracts on the floor, most of whom are ill-suited for the coach’s unselfish system anyway. And another 33 win season like the one we are headed toward gets us nowhere.

I wasn’t the only one who picked up on his wry sarcasm when Mike D’Antoni said a few months ago that we are depending on Gallo and Chandler to lure a top FA to the team. He knows that’s not enough. So the question isn’t whether Sessions improves this team. It’s fine if you think he doesn’t. The point is that both D’Antoni and Walsh think he would and they still didn’t sign him. That means we are going with what we have, going all-in into the season with a team of place-holders.

I don’t think that is going to work.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
fishmike
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9/9/2009  11:19 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

the real question is whether you're confident in walsh and d'antoni's talent evaluation.
mixed. MDA ran MArbury out of town (twice) so thats a plus for sure. Walsh has drafted OK. Walsh has gotten very good value in trades in the past. Oneil for Dale Davis, Artest/Miller for Jalen Rose. Bender for Antonio Davis didnt work out but it fit into building a long athletic team (Bender was always hurt). He drafted Tinsley and Harrington late in the first round. He missed a few other guys.

Walsh never really hit the homerun but he certainly didnt swing and miss very often. He didnt have a lot of high picks to work with because the Pacers always won. He does stick to a plan and does seem to have a good vision of what a team should look like.

I think both guys have been good enough to merit 3 years to build something. I think they have set things up so that at the end of the summer of 2010 its their roster and Isiah's mark is gone from this team. Lets see whats here
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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9/9/2009  11:26 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
No FA is going to want to go to a team without a future
what good young core was in Orlando when the Magic signed McGrady and did a S&T for Grant Hill? Those were two all-star franchise caliber guys. Hill was a 25/8/5 player and McGrady a 6'8 freak of nature scoring guard. It was the closest thing to Jordan/Pippen part 2. Obviously injuries derailed the whole thing but the Magic dumped the whole roster, added two stars in the 20s and said we will build a team around you two. Guess what.. they came.

Why is it so far fetched that if the Knicks can magically dump JJ/Curry (I think they do) they cant get two max FAs in here?

Amare at $14mm and Lebron at $17, Douglas, Chandler, Gallo, Hill and a bunch of 2nd round picks and vet minimum players with MDA is a pretty good start and will be in the Eastern Conf finals 6 of the next 8 years.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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9/9/2009  11:29 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by djsunyc:

the real question is whether you're confident in walsh and d'antoni's talent evaluation.

No, I don’t think that is the question.

This isn't about whose scouting report you trust. It’s a fair assumption to make that Sessions would have some success in the D'Antoni offense and that he is worth $16 million over 4 years. If both D'Antoni and Walsh thought so, none of the amateur scouts here are better qualified than they are to make that evaluation no matter how much they claim they have watched him. It’s why posters trying to tear down Sessions as a “second round talent” are missing the point.

It’s about the plan for the future. That’s where we differ. I think our dropping bad contracts and clearing the decks goes hand-in-hand with building a Team centered around a promising young core. No FA is going to want to go to a team without a future, and I don’t think Hill, Douglas, Gallinari and Chandler are enough. We acquired D’Antoni to establish a strong team concept and turn around the losing culture that had set in at MSG. I don’t think we are doing that by putting a team of 1 yr contracts on the floor, most of whom are ill-suited for the coach’s unselfish system anyway. And another 33 win season like the one we are headed toward gets us nowhere.

I wasn’t the only one who picked up on his wry sarcasm when Mike D’Antoni said a few months ago that we are depending on Gallo and Chandler to lure a top FA to the team. He knows that’s not enough. So the question isn’t whether Sessions improves this team. It’s fine if you think he doesn’t. The point is that both D’Antoni and Walsh think he would and they still didn’t sign him. That means we are going with what we have, going all-in into the season with a team of place-holders.

I don’t think that is going to work.

i think lebron/wade coming to ny has nothing to do with the roster.
tkf
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9/9/2009  11:33 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by MS:
4 million is not a lot of money, Duhon is a solid backup off the bench,
which is exaclty what Buck fans said about Sessions. Briggs was nice enough to post the link from the Bucks message board. 30% say let him walk. Of the other 70% half want to keep him because $4mm is a decent salary for "a good 3rd or 4th guard." The other half just didnt want to lose a player for nothing.

So again... While Sessions is a good player he's regarded by his own fan base (the people that watch every game) as a good backup or complimentary player. WHY WHY WHY are we putting the one chance we have to get a star or franchise player in the last 20 years at risk for Ramon Sessions? WHY.


Because he is available and knicks fans hate inactivity.. LOL.. I am with you fish, but you know how knicks fans are.. they want to see activity, doesn't matter if it makes sense or not, they will deal with that later with the endless bashing of walsh, but for now, the beast wants to be fed!!!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
RemBee76
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9/9/2009  11:38 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
i think lebron/wade coming to ny has nothing to do with the roster.

What does convince them to take less money to play somehwere they have less of a chance of winning in, DJ?

Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
RemBee76
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9/9/2009  11:42 AM
Fishmike,I don’t think Walsh’s plan is centered around signing two FAs. Reports were that if he managed to trade JJ he would have signed Sessions.

Which is good, because while the two superstar strategy was marvelous but unlikely when the cap was at $60 million, it’s pure folly at 50.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
BRIGGS
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9/9/2009  11:48 AM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by MS:
4 million is not a lot of money, Duhon is a solid backup off the bench,
which is exaclty what Buck fans said about Sessions. Briggs was nice enough to post the link from the Bucks message board. 30% say let him walk. Of the other 70% half want to keep him because $4mm is a decent salary for "a good 3rd or 4th guard." The other half just didnt want to lose a player for nothing.

So again... While Sessions is a good player he's regarded by his own fan base (the people that watch every game) as a good backup or complimentary player. WHY WHY WHY are we putting the one chance we have to get a star or franchise player in the last 20 years at risk for Ramon Sessions? WHY.


Because he is available and knicks fans hate inactivity.. LOL.. I am with you fish, but you know how knicks fans are.. they want to see activity, doesn't matter if it makes sense or not, they will deal with that later with the endless bashing of walsh, but for now, the beast wants to be fed!!!!

I cant believe some of these posts. Who exactly is going to be playing PG in 2010 for the NY Knicks? Ramon Sessions wouldve made us better this year --possibly much better and he wouldve been locked in. Were sitting in a scenario of 7-8 guys playing me first and this team could be stripped to the bone in July. It's not worth arguing about because people dont get it--they think Toney douglas is going to walk in and be the starting NY Knick PG. Oh well -reality is a nice slap in the face.
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djsunyc
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9/9/2009  11:56 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by djsunyc:
i think lebron/wade coming to ny has nothing to do with the roster.

What does convince them to take less money to play somehwere they have less of a chance of winning in, DJ?

i think a player of lebron or wade caliber signs in ny b/c they enjoy the spotlight and the extras (get on letterman, advertising, endorsements, etc.). they want to own the city, ring the opening bell on wall street...have bloomberg give him the key to the city, yada yada yada.

it's fueled by ego. i don't think it has to do with who's on the roster in the summer of 2010. that's downright trivial since isiah proved you can make many changes to a roster relatively quickly so in lebron's case, he's young enough to wait 1-3 years to make moves.

as for money, they can easily recoup that elsewhere.
djsunyc
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9/9/2009  11:56 AM
Posted by RemBee76:

Fishmike,I don’t think Walsh’s plan is centered around signing two FAs. Reports were that if he managed to trade JJ he would have signed Sessions.

Which is good, because while the two superstar strategy was marvelous but unlikely when the cap was at $60 million, it’s pure folly at 50.

madison square garden's entire focus is on acquiring 2 guys in 2010.
RemBee76
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9/9/2009  12:08 PM
So, DJ, I know you have inside sources, so why were they planning on signing Sessions after trading JJ?

I think the lure of "owning NYC" is massively overstated. This isn't to say I think its irrelevant, I think the city can be a selling point.

However, it can just as easily be a negative. Star players haven't always flourished under the "bright lights" of NY. Wade has already flatly said he wouldn't want to live here.

And you don't own NYC if you don't win. Winning, for all of these guys, is the most important thing. Its the entire reason they have the player options in their contracts...they are putting their teams on notice not to take them for granted. Build a team around me that can win or I leave.

Which makes me wonder why some take it for granted that LBJ would bolt a conference finals team built around him for one that hasn't won more than 33 games in just about forever, just to start all over again. Because he gets a larger-than-life billboard in Times Square?

James has that already.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
fishmike
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9/9/2009  12:10 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by MS:
4 million is not a lot of money, Duhon is a solid backup off the bench,
which is exaclty what Buck fans said about Sessions. Briggs was nice enough to post the link from the Bucks message board. 30% say let him walk. Of the other 70% half want to keep him because $4mm is a decent salary for "a good 3rd or 4th guard." The other half just didnt want to lose a player for nothing.

So again... While Sessions is a good player he's regarded by his own fan base (the people that watch every game) as a good backup or complimentary player. WHY WHY WHY are we putting the one chance we have to get a star or franchise player in the last 20 years at risk for Ramon Sessions? WHY.


Because he is available and knicks fans hate inactivity.. LOL.. I am with you fish, but you know how knicks fans are.. they want to see activity, doesn't matter if it makes sense or not, they will deal with that later with the endless bashing of walsh, but for now, the beast wants to be fed!!!!

I cant believe some of these posts. Who exactly is going to be playing PG in 2010 for the NY Knicks? Ramon Sessions wouldve made us better this year --possibly much better and he wouldve been locked in. Were sitting in a scenario of 7-8 guys playing me first and this team could be stripped to the bone in July. It's not worth arguing about because people dont get it--they think Toney douglas is going to walk in and be the starting NY Knick PG. Oh well -reality is a nice slap in the face.
I still cant believe you still cant get your head around this. They didnt want to add his contract. They dont know what the cap is $5mm is a huge amount of money.

Dont think its huge?

$5mm was the difference in cap space between a MLE type and a guy making $11-$12mm a year.

For example when Anthony Carter's agent (HEAT) failed to alert the Heat that they were taking his player option the Heat suddenly got an addition $5mm in cap space. That allowed them to offer close to max money to Elton Brand. The Clippers matched. However they then offers a big contract to Lamar Odom. Lamar Odom became a critical signing and a) helped them back into contention and b) gave them the extra chip needed to sign Shaq.

They then won a title.

Lets recap.

$5mm cap space = Lamar Odom = playoff team = piece to trade for Shaq = NBA title.

It makes a difference. If the Knicks wanted to get better Briggs they could do that. I am sure Walsh could have traded for expensive guys and run a veteran team out there for MDA. He elected to wait and take a shot at this FA class he's not going to miss out on a shot at Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Amare/Dirk/etc
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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9/9/2009  12:17 PM
Posted by RemBee76:

So, DJ, I know you have inside sources, so why were they planning on signing Sessions after trading JJ?

I think the lure of "owning NYC" is massively overstated. This isn't to say I think its irrelevant, I think the city can be a selling point.

However, it can just as easily be a negative. Star players haven't always flourished under the "bright lights" of NY. Wade has already flatly said he wouldn't want to live here.

And you don't own NYC if you don't win. Winning, for all of these guys, is the most important thing. Its the entire reason they have the player options in their contracts...they are putting their teams on notice not to take them for granted. Build a team around me that can win or I leave.

Which makes me wonder why some take it for granted that LBJ would bolt a conference finals team built around him for one that hasn't won more than 33 games in just about forever, just to start all over again. Because he gets a larger-than-life billboard in Times Square?

James has that already.

my sources are the ny post and tmz.
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