Posted by izybx:

Nalod made a simple point, he was pulled over and acted like a gentlemen. The officer in question showed discretion. He simply asserted that if Gates had conducted himself in a similar manner than the outcome would have been different. I dont see how anybody oould disagree with this, and if they do I dont understand why it would bring out this venomous anger out of some people.

Posted by martin:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

So the belief is that racial profiling is due to the high crime rates committed by blacks. So in theory, in order to reduce racial profiling we would need to reduce the amount of crimes that blacks commit. So the question becomes, why are blacks committing so many crimes. The answer that seems to be the norm among whites according to the arguments on this board are that blacks commit crime for no other reason then because we are black. That our blackness alone causes us to commit crimes.

dude, I didn't even read the rest of your post. No way that what I bolded has occurred, not that I have come across. If so, you had better find it and quote it.

No way.

Posted by izybx:

Nalod made a simple point, he was pulled over and acted like a gentlemen. The officer in question showed discretion. He simply asserted that if Gates had conducted himself in a similar manner than the outcome would have been different. I dont see how anybody oould disagree with this, and if they do I dont understand why it would bring out this venomous anger out of some people.

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by martin:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by martin:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

So the belief is that racial profiling is due to the high crime rates committed by blacks. So in theory, in order to reduce racial profiling we would need to reduce the amount of crimes that blacks commit. So the question becomes, why are blacks committing so many crimes. The answer that seems to be the norm among whites according to the arguments on this board are that blacks commit crime for no other reason then because we are black. That our blackness alone causes us to commit crimes.

dude, I didn't even read the rest of your post. No way that what I bolded has occurred, not that I have come across. If so, you had better find it and quote it.

No way.

Martin, nobody is going to directly say that, its being said indirectly all over the place. When its said that crime is a product of poverty, its called an excuse. When I brought up views about the government, its called radical theorys. So if blacks aren't commiting crime because they are a product of poverty stricken environment, and the government had no ties to how guns and drugs ended up flooded into those communities. Then you look at the astronomical difference of blacks in jail compared to whites, then what other conclusions are there Martin.

you are taking 2 or 3 independent thoughts and coming to your own conclusion and then saying that people on this board are "saying" that "blackness alone causes us to commit crimes".

No way is that happening here as far as I can tell.

Its definatly happening, but as you said is not everyone on the board, but mostly the people who are heavily commenting in these type of threads. If I said board I used a poor choice of words.

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by izybx:

Nalod made a simple point, he was pulled over and acted like a gentlemen. The officer in question showed discretion. He simply asserted that if Gates had conducted himself in a similar manner than the outcome would have been different. I dont see how anybody oould disagree with this, and if they do I dont understand why it would bring out this venomous anger out of some people.

One problem people had with Nalods and others post is they keeping hoping on both sides of the fence. He and others who are following his view point say that this issue has nothing to do with Gates case in one sentence. Then in the next they say there is a lesson to be learned in his situation when compared to Gates case.

Besides that though, I agree that Gates made the issue bigger then what it should have been first, and so did the cop 2nd. I still don't see how the cop assumes no responsibility. At the end of the day Gates felt he was wronged and reacted to those feelings. At that point the cop could have been the one to difuse the flames, but instead poored gasoline on it. So the cop should assume as much blame as Gates.

Since you can't relate to Gates feelings Its understandable though for you guys to see things the way you do. I don't believe Gates was wrong in expressing his feels towards the cop if he felt he was treated unfairly. I think how he expressed his displeasure was wrong though. That I think we all can agree on.

Posted by Nalod :

And I think they BOTH over reacted in total.

Posted by martin:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by izybx:

Nalod made a simple point, he was pulled over and acted like a gentlemen. The officer in question showed discretion. He simply asserted that if Gates had conducted himself in a similar manner than the outcome would have been different. I dont see how anybody oould disagree with this, and if they do I dont understand why it would bring out this venomous anger out of some people.

One problem people had with Nalods and others post is they keeping hoping on both sides of the fence. He and others who are following his view point say that this issue has nothing to do with Gates case in one sentence. Then in the next they say there is a lesson to be learned in his situation when compared to Gates case.

Besides that though, I agree that Gates made the issue bigger then what it should have been first, and so did the cop 2nd. I still don't see how the cop assumes no responsibility. At the end of the day Gates felt he was wronged and reacted to those feelings. At that point the cop could have been the one to difuse the flames, but instead poored gasoline on it. So the cop should assume as much blame as Gates.

Since you can't relate to Gates feelings Its understandable though for you guys to see things the way you do. I don't believe Gates was wrong in expressing his feels towards the cop if he felt he was treated unfairly. I think how he expressed his displeasure was wrong though. That I think we all can agree on.

I think Nalod has repeatedly said that both Gates and cops were wrong and should assume responsibility.

Posted by Nalod :

And I think they BOTH over reacted in total.

Posted by martin:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by martin:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by martin:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

So the belief is that racial profiling is due to the high crime rates committed by blacks. So in theory, in order to reduce racial profiling we would need to reduce the amount of crimes that blacks commit. So the question becomes, why are blacks committing so many crimes. The answer that seems to be the norm among whites according to the arguments on this board are that blacks commit crime for no other reason then because we are black. That our blackness alone causes us to commit crimes.

dude, I didn't even read the rest of your post. No way that what I bolded has occurred, not that I have come across. If so, you had better find it and quote it.

No way.

Martin, nobody is going to directly say that, its being said indirectly all over the place. When its said that crime is a product of poverty, its called an excuse. When I brought up views about the government, its called radical theorys. So if blacks aren't commiting crime because they are a product of poverty stricken environment, and the government had no ties to how guns and drugs ended up flooded into those communities. Then you look at the astronomical difference of blacks in jail compared to whites, then what other conclusions are there Martin.

you are taking 2 or 3 independent thoughts and coming to your own conclusion and then saying that people on this board are "saying" that "blackness alone causes us to commit crimes".

No way is that happening here as far as I can tell.

Its definatly happening, but as you said is not everyone on the board, but mostly the people who are heavily commenting in these type of threads. If I said board I used a poor choice of words.

and I am telling you to tell me where folks are saying blackness along causes blacks to commit crimes. I don't see it.

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by Rookie:

Posted by sebstar:

There is no aspect of American life in which racism does not currently operate to disadvantage blacks. Because black people live through this on a daily basis, many are far more aware. To the white world, it's mostly invisible, because the operations that aid white supremacy aren't necessarily things that white people see on an everyday basis in real life.

I'm still waiting for Sebstar to give us some examples of how he is disadvantaged by white people every day. I mean seriously, I woke up this morning and my first thought was 'damn, I forgot to buy coffee'. It wasn't 'Ok, so how am I going to disadvantage blacks today'. I'm half way through my day and I still haven't disadvantaged any blacks yet. I can't say that I'm just off to a slow start, really, the thought just hasn't crossed my mind. Maybe I'm just not as good at it as the rest of you white people. My day has been filled with things like 'how can I continue to do a good job and stay employed in a bad economy so I can continue to provide for my family. At my lunch break, I had enough time to grab a sandwich and eat at my desk. I did however let myself get disadvantaged by a black guy by letting him cut in front of me at the deli counter, so I guess my day as a white disadvantager has been a total failure so far...but it is still early.

This whole argument has ended right where it started, as I thought it would. The folks with extreme opinions continue to have and reinforce their extreme views while the folks with moderate opinions try and reinforce their moderate views. In the end, no one has budged off of their position one inch...and three pages from now that won't change. The only thing this has proven to me is that we are all different and that's probably a good thing.

I want to start out by saying Im only looking for your opinion on these issues, not to accuse or proclaim anything.

We live in a time period where everyone is equal right. According to you why are there so many more African Americans in prison then whites. Why is the percentage higher for a white student to graduate and go to college and graduate then the percentage of blacks. Why is the unemployment rate higher for blacks then whites. Why are blacks more likely to commit homicide. Why is the average income for whites substantially higher then there are for blacks.

Again Im only looking for your opinion on these issues.

Also I want to add that just because you may not view things in a racial way does not mean that nobody does. It does not mean that its not out there but only that you personally don't. Its not an extreme view to believe that there was/is a conspiracy hold African Americans back. During slavery they used to kill blacks that learned to read so that blacks would not add smarts to go along with the physical ability they were breeding, come together and start over taking plantations. Its not extreme to believe whites would try to do something like that on a lesser level. True or not its not extreme. It would actually be a logical step in a nation divided.

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by Nalod:


NY,


But lets look at the real cause which we discussed in the Gates thread. I wrote that enslavement, and eventual inclusion into our culture did not allow for assimilation for the family to evolve. Black men were consistantly sold off while enslaved. The culture of family life did not exist prior to emancipation, but it was expected. This congruence does not make for an ecnomically sound environment going forward. With no formal educations and only agriculture labor background the typical black american struggled. Naturally I am being stereotypical as many did get educations, black colleges did exist and many went further and further. It is tough to say "White supremecy" on one hand and still look at the numerous programs that were instituted. Im not gonna say competition and racisim was not there, cuz it was, it still is. But I don't fully believe there is an out right conspiricy to rid the country of its black population. Our history is not fair. Our immigrents came over and had the structure of its family unit in place which allowed for faster assimilations and ecnomic advancement.

Have there been many instinces where the government was wrong? Of course, but was it doctrine or just departmental ignorance or deparmental criminally?

Strong family builds strong economic base to grow from. Inheritance, Real estate and other properties all can perpetuate in any race in this country. And when you don't have that power you are vulnerable.

The United States at its best, and worst!

I don't know if the government formed a conspiracy in order to rid themselves of black people. Its easy to draw that conclusion when you look at everything stacked up against the black communities. But you can't state it as a fact without coming off as crazy when speaking to whites.

But what I do feel strongly about is that there has been less overall effort and care towards black people. As whites didn't go from treating African Americans as slaves, and monkeys, and believe they are less then human to loving African Americans with a snap of the finger. I believe they have allowed drugs, and guns to infiltrate Black communities more because number 1; they wanted/needed the profit off of it. And number 2; they have less concern on how it effects the black community then if it was tearing up majority white communities. They may not hate blacks and think of us as slaves during that transitional period, but I do believe there was less care or concern towards blacks.

I do agree about the educational background. If there really was a genuine care for African Americans knowing the lack of educational background going in wouldn't there have been more of an effort to try and look to get blacks more caught up. That's the line of thinking one would have if race wasn't an issue and everyone just saw each other as human beings. I can agree with the family structure as well.

Now going by that view point. How the hell did we all of a sudden get smart and skilled enough to go under the government nose and import all these guns and drugs into our neighborhoods.