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David Lee officially crying; Basically wants trade
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sebstar
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7/23/2009  9:39 PM
DJ:

First off we can throw Verajo's contract out. It was an absurd deal and was called such immediately after it was signed.

And I like Lee and Nate and want them back...but overpaying them by even a few million could mean the difference between signing two high profile free agents, or simply one. Right now, the market obviously doesnt support Lee's demands, so why overpay? Especially for two players that couldnt even lead their team to even a sniffing distance of the playoffs.

And he is asking for some serious chip with the dip. If he were in the 7-8 mill range, then he wouldnt feel the need to whine in public because they would obviously be close. He wants that 10, minimum, hence the line "im not asking for a max deal"...

Sorry brah, you've gots no leverage.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
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djsunyc
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7/23/2009  9:43 PM
there is no cap space for TWO free agents. there is space for only one. if the plan was two, then why even offer lee $7 mil? why go after kidd + sessions? the TWO plan is out the window. not happening.

in today's market, verejao got his. so i'm not going to throw it out.
s3231
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7/23/2009  9:46 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by s3231:

This thread almost makes me embarrassed to be a Knicks fan (I say almost because at least a few fans think along the same lines as I do).

No need to be embarrassed. Trust, if Lee had 5-10 legitimate suitors and he knew he could get the kind of deal he's seeking he would be on the first thing smoking and he wouldnt give a damn about NY.

But he doesnt. So far nobody wants to pay what he's asking. So faced with this, he has taken to whining and bitching and some knick fans are calling a spade a spade.

We don't even know what he is asking though, that is the point. And we also don't know if there are other teams out there willing to pay them (aka teams over the cap). Neither Lee nor his agent have come out and said "We want $12 million a year..." None of us know what is really going on behind the scenes, we just have an idea of what is happening.

You call this whining and bitching? I just read all of those Lee articles and I didn't see him bad mouthing the franchise. Yeah, I didn't like the LeBron quote but if I had to guess, I would say that he is trying to justify his contract demands there and not just taking a cheap shot at the Knicks franchise. I say that because he had opportunities to bash the franchise and instead, he said that this was just a business and that he wasn't angry or upset at this point.

I think he is handling the situation pretty well. He hasn't said anything for 3 weeks and the minute he opens up his mouth, people claim that he is crying? That doesn't make any sense to me.

I agree with DJ here, if I had to guess, I would say his agent put him up to this. Even if it was Lee's idea, I have no problem with it. Put yourself in his shoes. You wanted to tryout for the Olympic team and now you can't because you would be putting your future earnings in jeopardy. I don't blame Lee for being frustrated at all. He has been a class act throughout his time here and unlike most of our other players, he actually busted his butt to become a better player even when our team was going in the opposite direction. If you were in his shoes, you would want to be rewarded for that loyalty and hard work too.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
King1
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7/23/2009  9:46 PM
Letting your best player walk is bad business. You will offer Kidd, Hill, and Sessions so I think Lee deserves a fair market contract
djsunyc
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7/23/2009  9:47 PM
Posted by sebstar:

Especially for two players that couldnt even lead their team to even a sniffing distance of the playoffs.

why is it lee's fault and not harrington's + chandler's??? they both averaged more fg'a than lee.

i'm not trying to defend lee here. i'm just trying to understand the arguments the knicks fans are using to dump all over a player and refusing to give him a deal. if this thread was about nate, i would be saying the same thing.



Uptown
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7/23/2009  9:48 PM
Posted by King1:

Letting your best player walk is bad business. You will offer Kidd, Hill, and Sessions so I think Lee deserves a fair market contract

Kid, Hill and Sessions have nothing to do with Lee as they were offered MLE's.....Is Lee willing to except an MLE?

I your opinion whats fair market value for Lee.
s3231
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7/23/2009  9:48 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by s3231:

This thread almost makes me embarrassed to be a Knicks fan (I say almost because at least a few fans think along the same lines as I do).

So after everything that's happened up till now, you're only now feeling embarrassed?

Yeah because if the team is bad, the fans can't really help that. However, when fans are turning on their best player for no good reason, that is embarrassing to me as a fan of that same team.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
sebstar
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7/23/2009  9:49 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

there is no cap space for TWO free agents. there is space for only one. if the plan was two, then why even offer lee $7 mil? why go after kidd + sessions? the TWO plan is out the window. not happening.

in today's market, verejao got his. so i'm not going to throw it out.

Cap space for one or two depends on Jeffries/Curry. Signing Lee/Nate would fully compromise that.

...and Millsap got his, so?

Again, if Lee thought he could get his jack from someone else, he would. Lee didnt give a damn about the Knicks best interest when he vetoed that deal to Memphis. Chickens have an interesting way of coming home to roost. Nobody is trying to give Lee 10 million a year, end of story. Now he's panicking.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
djsunyc
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7/23/2009  9:50 PM
Posted by King1:

No one knows what Lee is asking for and Walsh is offering. I know none of you buy cars but you never pay sticker. Lee has a sticker price and then Walsh should offer something and then you negotiate.

exactly. everyone is going on assumptions of the $$$'s. nobody knows yet everyone is taking extreme stances that the #'s are facts.
djsunyc
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7/23/2009  9:51 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by djsunyc:

there is no cap space for TWO free agents. there is space for only one. if the plan was two, then why even offer lee $7 mil? why go after kidd + sessions? the TWO plan is out the window. not happening.

in today's market, verejao got his. so i'm not going to throw it out.

Cap space for one or two depends on Jeffries/Curry. Signing Lee/Nate would fully compromise that.

...and Millsap got his, so?

Again, if Lee thought he could get his jack from someone else, he would. Lee didnt give a damn about the Knicks best interest when he vetoed that deal to Memphis. Chickens have an interesting way of coming home to roost. Nobody is trying to give Lee 10 million a year, end of story. Now he's panicking.

come on bro...seriously, you're gonna talk about lee giving a "damn" about the knicks when you voice the exact opposite opinion of collegiate players not getting paid?
djsunyc
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7/23/2009  9:52 PM
Posted by s3231:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by s3231:

This thread almost makes me embarrassed to be a Knicks fan (I say almost because at least a few fans think along the same lines as I do).

So after everything that's happened up till now, you're only now feeling embarrassed?

Yeah because if the team is bad, the fans can't really help that. However, when fans are turning on their best player for no good reason, that is embarrassing to me as a fan of that same team.

it's prevalent in all sports in many cities. but it's very prevalent in ny. i think it comes down to ny fans thinking they know more than they do. you turn on the radio and you hear the same garbage from yankee and mets fans too.
sebstar
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7/23/2009  9:53 PM
Ok, kind of off track, but I'll bite....

College players get paid how much again? Wasnt aware that Lee has yet to be compensated for his services.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
s3231
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7/23/2009  9:56 PM
I'm sorry but the "Lee couldn't get us to the playoffs" argument is nonsense.

Look at our team and look at the teams that made the Eastern Conference playoffs. Even teams that didn't make the playoffs had more talent than we had. Without Lee, we don't win over 30 games. He is the main reason why we were even able to talk about the playoffs.

Seriously, even if you replaced Lee with Bosh last year, we most likely still don't make the playoffs. Does that mean Bosh isn't an all-star? Hell no. This team is significantly flawed and we don't have a lot of talent right now. You can't just say that Lee doesn't deserve $9-$10 million a season because we didn't make the playoffs last season. Lee can't help the fact that he had no help around him last season.

If we let Lee walk for nothing, we will only be farther away from being a playoff team and we will have lost our best asset for nothing.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
djsunyc
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7/23/2009  9:56 PM
Posted by sebstar:

Ok, kind of off track, but I'll bite....

College players get paid how much again? Wasnt aware that Lee has yet to be compensated for his services.

no need to bite or continue it.

i'm just saying the arguments knicks fans are using NOT to sign lee are not very sound.
nyk4ever
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7/23/2009  9:57 PM
Posted by VDesai:

The sound of a man with no leverage...sounds like tears

Exactly Des.

Sorry David, you're a nice player but when you stop asking for money then Paul Millsap (who is a better player) then you'll get a fair deal and you can stop your baby-crying. What a joke. He shouldn't have opened his mouth.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nyk4ever
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7/23/2009  9:58 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

btw, i'm not a big fan of lee but i don't think judging the player based on team performance is the way to go. i think you have to see the player's skillset and where he is in his career and go by that.

Didnt you just say in the Sessions thread something along the lines of "isn't anyone worried that Sessions put up good numbers on a bad team?"
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
djsunyc
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7/23/2009  9:59 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by djsunyc:

btw, i'm not a big fan of lee but i don't think judging the player based on team performance is the way to go. i think you have to see the player's skillset and where he is in his career and go by that.

Didnt you just say in the Sessions thread something along the lines of "isn't anyone worried that Sessions put up good numbers on a bad team?"

that was a sarcastic post...
djsunyc
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7/23/2009  9:59 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by VDesai:

The sound of a man with no leverage...sounds like tears

Exactly Des.

Sorry David, you're a nice player but when you stop asking for money then Paul Millsap (who is a better player) then you'll get a fair deal and you can stop your baby-crying. What a joke. He shouldn't have opened his mouth.

why is millsap a better player? you can't compare players in the nba, there are way too many variables.
s3231
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7/23/2009  10:00 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by djsunyc:

there is no cap space for TWO free agents. there is space for only one. if the plan was two, then why even offer lee $7 mil? why go after kidd + sessions? the TWO plan is out the window. not happening.

in today's market, verejao got his. so i'm not going to throw it out.

Cap space for one or two depends on Jeffries/Curry. Signing Lee/Nate would fully compromise that.

...and Millsap got his, so?

Again, if Lee thought he could get his jack from someone else, he would. Lee didnt give a damn about the Knicks best interest when he vetoed that deal to Memphis. Chickens have an interesting way of coming home to roost. Nobody is trying to give Lee 10 million a year, end of story. Now he's panicking.

You are basing your argument on something that may have never happened. We don't know if Lee vetoed a deal to Memphis. Newspapers don't always tell the truth, their agenda is to sell papers. If Newspapers always told the truth, then we would have a very different roster right now.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
nyk4ever
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7/23/2009  10:00 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by VDesai:

The sound of a man with no leverage...sounds like tears

Exactly Des.

Sorry David, you're a nice player but when you stop asking for money then Paul Millsap (who is a better player) then you'll get a fair deal and you can stop your baby-crying. What a joke. He shouldn't have opened his mouth.

why is millsap a better player? you can't compare players in the nba, there are way too many variables.

Ok, sorry. David is better than LeBron. Better?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
David Lee officially crying; Basically wants trade

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