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21 Reasons Why Knicks Shouldn't Break Bank With David Lee
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Pharzeone
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5/6/2009  1:12 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by franco12:

Lee is a sixth man who's gotten starter minutes. Don't pay him like a starter. $6-8mm tops. Keeps cap flexibility, tradeable if we need to, good value for his production.

Well that's just it. We have a phenomenal bench if we want it here. Lee, Chandler, Nate, Duhon, Harrington. Kick ass 6-10 man list.

Yet.......they've been either starting or putting in major minutes. The result? 32 wins.

The problem? None of these guys are coming cheap for the supposed 2010+ team of greatness.

The answer? S&T's or let them walk.

At least for a change this franchise has flexibility and REAL assets to use.

I usually agree with TMS - but I can accept us losing Lee for nothing. The fear of losing a player for nothing is what causes teams to sign their players to stupid contracts. Lets be smart and disciplined. This isn't about 2010 - this is about building a team the right way- the right players at the right prices.

No one thinks Lee shouldn't be retained- its price that we disagree with.

franco, I think TMS' point was that it was silly of Walsh to hang onto a player who figure he couldn't sign to a reasonable contract. That's like leaving money on the table. He could have traded him during the season or signed him to a reasonable contract at the beginning of the season. That's why some publications slammed him for not trading Lee and being in this current situation. Who knows maybe Walsh's plan is to give him anything he wants like king suggested but Walsh took himself out of the equation by not being proactive and looking at the big picture.
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Bonn1997
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5/6/2009  5:01 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

by the way if we lose lee who exactly is playing 4-5

You make it sound like the team has had success with Lee playing the 4-5
Ira
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5/6/2009  8:13 AM
The argument that Lee isn't a credible starter because the Knicks haven't been winning is not credible. Lee has been the best player on a bad team. He's not a star, but he is a good player. He's third in the league in rebounding and seventh in field goal %. His offense has gotten better every season.

If you feel that Lee isn't a good player because the Knicks weren't good, would you feel that way about Bosch or Granger or Durant?
Bonn1997
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5/6/2009  9:26 AM
Are you asking me that question? I didn't make any of the arguments you seem to think I did. Or were those just rhetorical questions?
Bonn1997
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5/6/2009  9:36 AM
Posted by Ira:

The argument that Lee isn't a credible starter because the Knicks haven't been winning is not credible. Lee has been the best player on a bad team. He's not a star, but he is a good player. He's third in the league in rebounding and seventh in field goal %. His offense has gotten better every season.

If you feel that Lee isn't a good player because the Knicks weren't good, would you feel that way about Bosch or Granger or Durant?
And Bosh has led his teams to multiple playoff appearances. Those guys have made all-star and Olympic appearances. Lee is not even close to the level of those three players. If you offered Lee straight up for any of them, the other team's GM would likely be so insulted that he'd hang up the phone.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-06-2009 09:37 AM]

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-06-2009 09:37 AM]
BRIGGS
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5/6/2009  9:38 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:

by the way if we lose lee who exactly is playing 4-5

You make it sound like the team has had success with Lee playing the 4-5

Unless we get a package that is representative of David Lee's full value--how can this team afford to just let him leave for nothing? They can't. It's NOT David's Lees fault that we are not winning. I think he pretty much does everything you want out of a PF in terms of scoring and rebounding--he's a heady player and has improved on the D.

My suggestion is get a real 7 foot player to move to C. I was listening to Ray Allen on the radio around here talking about Thabeet[obviously we wont get him] a guy he has played with in the summer and he was describing just how valuable he will be for the right team. He may not score 20 points but like Kendrick Perkins--he will be a component that a team needs in order to win games. A guy who can get 10 points 10 rebounds and block 3 shots and alter quite a few more. Not a star but a piece necessary for a team to win.

We are perpetually smallish. Leaving David Lee at 5 is a disadvantage defensively--not Lee's fault. I think what we should do after 6 yeras of bypassing big players in the draft is to secure a big player and let him develop while he plays off the bench.

Simply we need to get bigger and I dont mean a 6-9 230 pound SF/PF who they believe can do some things in this offense. I mean bread and butter 7-1 275 pounds--we need that size.
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Bonn1997
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5/6/2009  9:42 AM
Fine but realize that without Lee all that would have happened is we'd get higher lottery picks. It's not like we would have missed out on something special if we didn't have Lee. Obviously losing him for nothing is a bad scenario--probably the third worst one I can think of--just behind:
(A) signing and trading him for long contracts and/or players we don't need just to be able to claim we got *something* for him;
(B) signing him to a big, long contract just to prevent the scenario where we have to explain why we lost him for nothing.

Now if he'll sign for the kind of money that a 6th man of the year award candidate would sign for (because that's the role I envision him fulfilling), then I'm all for it.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-06-2009 09:42 AM]
Vmart
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5/6/2009  11:14 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

by the way if we lose lee who exactly is playing 4-5

Al Harrington

BRIGGS
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5/6/2009  12:08 PM
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by BRIGGS:

by the way if we lose lee who exactly is playing 4-5

Al Harrington
Al Harrington starting 4-5--OK I guess we want to win 20 games
RIP Crushalot😞
Bonn1997
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5/6/2009  2:42 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by BRIGGS:

by the way if we lose lee who exactly is playing 4-5

Al Harrington
Al Harrington starting 4-5--OK I guess we want to win 20 games
I'd rather win 20 than 30
Nalod
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5/6/2009  4:04 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by BRIGGS:

by the way if we lose lee who exactly is playing 4-5

Al Harrington
Al Harrington starting 4-5--OK I guess we want to win 20 games
I'd rather win 20 than 30

We don't have our pick next year, so lower total only makes us look stupid and dolan looses more money.

Next season is about playoffs unless we really get lucky in the draft.

What about trading lee for Memphis pick if it yields a top 3 pick? They got cap room.
Bonn1997
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5/6/2009  4:40 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by BRIGGS:

by the way if we lose lee who exactly is playing 4-5

Al Harrington
Al Harrington starting 4-5--OK I guess we want to win 20 games
I'd rather win 20 than 30

We don't have our pick next year, so lower total only makes us look stupid and dolan looses more money.

Next season is about playoffs unless we really get lucky in the draft.

What about trading lee for Memphis pick if it yields a top 3 pick? They got cap room.
You're right; my bad. I still wouldn't exactly obsess over the difference between winning 20 and 30 games. I guess 30 is better but does it really make a big difference? Would you be significantly more proud of the team if we won 30 instead of 20?
Allanfan20
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5/6/2009  5:03 PM
Lee would be a good player on a good team, but no matter what, if you want to make it a good team, you have to put a very good defensive team around him to deflate his shortcomings.

Otherwise, what's wrong with having a hustle player who grabs rebounds all the time and shoots at a high FG% and actually knows how to play the game? Just can't build around him, and no, I wouldn't pay him 10 million dollars.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TMS
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5/6/2009  8:26 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by franco12:

Lee is a sixth man who's gotten starter minutes. Don't pay him like a starter. $6-8mm tops. Keeps cap flexibility, tradeable if we need to, good value for his production.

Well that's just it. We have a phenomenal bench if we want it here. Lee, Chandler, Nate, Duhon, Harrington. Kick ass 6-10 man list.

Yet.......they've been either starting or putting in major minutes. The result? 32 wins.

The problem? None of these guys are coming cheap for the supposed 2010+ team of greatness.

The answer? S&T's or let them walk.

At least for a change this franchise has flexibility and REAL assets to use.

I usually agree with TMS - but I can accept us losing Lee for nothing. The fear of losing a player for nothing is what causes teams to sign their players to stupid contracts. Lets be smart and disciplined. This isn't about 2010 - this is about building a team the right way- the right players at the right prices.

No one thinks Lee shouldn't be retained- its price that we disagree with.

franco, I think TMS' point was that it was silly of Walsh to hang onto a player who figure he couldn't sign to a reasonable contract. That's like leaving money on the table. He could have traded him during the season or signed him to a reasonable contract at the beginning of the season. That's why some publications slammed him for not trading Lee and being in this current situation. Who knows maybe Walsh's plan is to give him anything he wants like king suggested but Walsh took himself out of the equation by not being proactive and looking at the big picture.

i don't expect any team to offer him a ridiculously overpriced contract this offseason... not many teams have that type of cap space to offer to begin with, & those that do are not gonna shell out all that money on a player like Lee... i pretty much expect his value will be set at market value & i hope that Walsh would go all out to try & work some kinda S&T, even if we have to throw in other pieces in order to do it like Harrington, Duhon, or 1 of our other expiring deals, or Nate for that matter... we gotta make sure we get back some kinda value for him, whether that be in the form of some much needed cap space while dumping 1 of our bad contracts, or a player that can factor into our longterm future that doesn't kill our 2010 plan, like a young player or established star that Walsh covets & will be willing to nix the 2010 plan to acquire in a larger trade.

if Lee wants to stay in NY that bad he always has the option to accept a below market deal, in which case i'm not opposed to keeping him cuz he'll still be a very tradeable commodity down the road anyway, but i don't expect his agent to be giving us any big discounts after the numbers he put up this year... this will likely be his best chance at landing big bucks in free agency he'll ever have in his career.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Vmart
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5/6/2009  9:56 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by BRIGGS:

by the way if we lose lee who exactly is playing 4-5

Al Harrington
Al Harrington starting 4-5--OK I guess we want to win 20 games

Al is a decent player. What does Lee have on Al? Besides Lee at the 4 or 5 is a disaster. I say let him walk.

21 Reasons Why Knicks Shouldn't Break Bank With David Lee

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