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Some recent observations on Chandler
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VDesai
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12/30/2008  6:16 PM
Chandler is a really good 2nd year player considering he was drafted around 20. He's still pretty young and displays a lot of capacity to improve. Right now he's inconsistent. To expect much more would mean we'd have a superstar in the making here. Last time I checked he didn't get selected in the top 3. Be patient with the guy because he will reward us for it.
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Cosmic
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12/30/2008  6:45 PM
Posted by misterearl:

"He has made several really stupid mistakes."

Cosmic - If Chandler is making such unconscionable "stupid mistakes" why doesn't D'Antoni bench him?

Bench him for who? Jerome James? Maybe you should go back and re-read my initial post (today) in this thread where i outlined everything I see with Chandler and all the reasons that could be contributing to it and you'll slack up a bit on my opinion of him.

I'm not writing the kid off as a bum destined for Europe but all the same he is playing lazier and making mistakes, again, things I outlined in that previous post. I really don't need to reiterate what I read in it. Yet, I'll do ya one up.

Chandler, thus far, has indeed proven to be nothing more than a role player. He hasn't improved much at all once we saw what he could do with more minutes.

As of late I will say he has turned more and more into a Chucker, something I voiced concern in another thread early in the season, only to be trashed over that observation. Well, unfortunately, it seems my concern was correct, but hopefully a trend that can be broken and not a solid trait that we never noticed before.

Now other things are at play here. The team has given up playing hard. The trades. The minutes.

Chandler went from no minutes to starters minutes.
He went from playing well at the 4 to being pushed to the 3 when Harrington was brought on board.
He went from part of a team sharing the ball to a team that for whatever reason, seemingly spearheaded by Nate, is back to being frustrated and deciding to just go 1-1 nearly every time they get the ball, and once Nate did that, Harrington did that, and once Harrington did that, Chandler did that. It happened VERY quickly.

My point is there's a lot going on to explain why Chandler hasn't played well recently. Yet I think the observations that he's not what we want him to be are also on point: He's not the smartest, he's not the hardest working, he's going 1-1 too much, he's taking deep shots when he has opportunity to drive, and he might very well just be a bench player being asked to do too much.

How does that get fixed is the bigger question and one that is impossible to answer given the overall team's lack of chemistry the past handful of games.


Not sure what else to say Earl, I'm certainly not the only fan to see these things occurring here, and wondering why they are.
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TMS
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12/30/2008  8:24 PM
Posted by Cookdcokehop:

Chandler is overhyped like every other player drafted by the Knicks. Ariza is way better than Chandler dumb ass.

i watch a lot of Lakers games & i can tell u that only applies when u'r talking defensively... Ariza uses his length & athleticism well to disrupt shots & defends passing lanes well... offensively he is not as good as Chandler... Wilson has much better range & is much more polished in the post than Ariza is... Ariza is still very awkward on the offensive end, but his passing has improved... his ball handle is still very suspect.
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NineMike2Whiskey
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12/30/2008  8:28 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Cookdcokehop:

Chandler is overhyped like every other player drafted by the Knicks. Ariza is way better than Chandler dumb ass.

i watch a lot of Lakers games & i can tell u that only applies when u'r talking defensively... Ariza uses his length & athleticism well to disrupt shots & defends passing lanes well... offensively he is not as good as Chandler... Wilson has much better range & is much more polished in the post than Ariza is... Ariza is still very awkward on the offensive end, but his passing has improved... his ball handle is still very suspect.

Agreed, offensively there is no comparsions. During his 2nd year Ariza STILL dribbled with his head down and stunk with his jump shot.

But i still dont see a perennial All-Star in Chandler yet.....but i'll think he'll eventually turn into a Caron Butler and whats not to like about that ?
TMS
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12/30/2008  8:36 PM
Posted by NineMike2Whiskey:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Cookdcokehop:

Chandler is overhyped like every other player drafted by the Knicks. Ariza is way better than Chandler dumb ass.

i watch a lot of Lakers games & i can tell u that only applies when u'r talking defensively... Ariza uses his length & athleticism well to disrupt shots & defends passing lanes well... offensively he is not as good as Chandler... Wilson has much better range & is much more polished in the post than Ariza is... Ariza is still very awkward on the offensive end, but his passing has improved... his ball handle is still very suspect.

Agreed, offensively there is no comparsions. During his 2nd year Ariza STILL dribbled with his head down and stunk with his jump shot.

But i still dont see a perennial All-Star in Chandler yet.....but i'll think he'll eventually turn into a Caron Butler and whats not to like about that ?

absolutely agree about Chandler's upside... the only thing that's gonna hold him back from realizing that potential is his own timidness... he seems to be content to fall into the background sometimes... i'd like to see him become more aggressive looking for his shots & taking it strong to the hole... he had a pretty sick drive & dunk in the game today so that's a positive sign, he needs to do a lot more of that tho instead of settling for the 3 all the time.
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Cosmic
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12/30/2008  10:52 PM
So tonight Chandler was more aggressive and more team oriented and good things happened.

Earl: This lends great validation to what I and some other fans have been concerned about: He had become lazy and downright stupid with his mistakes.

Even in tonight's game he made several just ridiculous errors:

Now, I wouldn't bother to list these, but you questioned me as to where I got the idea he's not been a smart player for some time:

opening drive, had lee wide open, took it himself missed the layup - lucky he got fouled
took the ball from the front court to the back court with no pressure on him at all
shuffled his feet on an uncontested mid range jump shot turning it over
drives recklessly to the rim and just plain losses the ball after having no idea if he was going to dunk it or lay it up
twice late in the game he blew his defensive assignment leading to wide open 3s for the cats that got them right back into the game.

there were others, I forget them, but this is a good sample of it all.



Also, his past six games prior to tonight? 33%FG, 19%FG3.

So it's not like I or anyone else is pulling it out of our asses that Chandler had slacked terribly the prior six games to tonight and wondered why that was!

Tonight though, he was finally aggressive again, and it led to good things. Needs to lay off the downright absurd unforced errors though.
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Hoopsmeister
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12/30/2008  11:20 PM
Well, tonite he shot 46%, and had a big time dunk in the First half, but his big play in the 4th qtr was the key to the won, so I can live with some of those dumb mistakes, which I am sure Chandler will work on, so why be so hard on the kid, since his play tonite got this team a much needed win.
Cosmic
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12/30/2008  11:23 PM
Posted by Hoopsmeister:

Well, tonite he shot 46%, and had a big time dunk in the First half, but his big play in the 4th qtr was the key to the won, so I can live with some of those dumb mistakes, which I am sure Chandler will work on, so why be so hard on the kid, since his play tonite got this team a much needed win.

Not being hard on him, just making observations, and being questioned on my observations, which leads me to clarify them more. If it seems harsh it's not meant to be.

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misterearl
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12/31/2008  12:59 AM
Even Papabear Knows That It's Called Nitpicking

Cosmic - opening drive, had lee wide open, took it himself missed the layup - lucky he got fouled

Big deal. Players miss layups all the time. Did you like the tasty drive and dunk or do you conveniently overlook The Mayors contributions, and point a spotllight on his every error, just to make your insane point that he is not "intelligent" enough for your obviously biased taste?

Next imperfection please...

Cosmic - took the ball from the front court to the back court with no pressure on him at all
shuffled his feet on an uncontested mid range jump shot turning it over

Big deal. Show me a player who never turns it over and I'll show you someone riding the pine, next imperfection please...

Cosmic - drives recklessly to the rim and just plain losses the ball after having no idea if he was going to dunk it or lay it up

Wrong. The Mayor got caught being indecisive. You might be indecisive too if you had his hops. To say he had "no idea" is just plain being a hatter.

Cosmic - twice late in the game he blew his defensive assignment leading to wide open 3s for the cats that got them right back into the game.

Okay, he leads the team in scoring and makes some clutch plays down the stretch and all you can do is point a finger at a defensive assignment that you claim is totally his fault.

C'mon. I would have a lot more respect for your opinion if it were valid tonight but the young man goes for 19 and 7 and all you have are flaws to highlight?

If Gallinari went for 19 and 7 you would be bagging confetti for his parade.

[Edited by - misterearl on 12-31-2008 01:07 AM]
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misterearl
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12/31/2008  1:13 AM
Fair And Balanced

"Wilson Chandler, who has struggled for most of the past month, scored seven of his team-high 19 points in the last 3:46 including the go-ahead free throws with 56.5 seconds to play. But Chandler's biggest basket came just after Raymond Felton's three had given the Bobcats their first lead at 83-82 with 4:05 to play. The play started with Jared Jeffries misfiring on a three from the corner. But Lee tapped the rebound to Chandler, who drove to the basket and made a runner as he was fouled by Felton"

Vocabulary lesson: Rising to perform in the fourth quarter is called "clutch"
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TMS
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12/31/2008  3:13 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Even Papabear Knows That It's Called Nitpicking

Cosmic - opening drive, had lee wide open, took it himself missed the layup - lucky he got fouled

Big deal. Players miss layups all the time. Did you like the tasty drive and dunk or do you conveniently overlook The Mayors contributions, and point a spotllight on his every error, just to make your insane point that he is not "intelligent" enough for your obviously biased taste?

Next imperfection please...

Cosmic - took the ball from the front court to the back court with no pressure on him at all
shuffled his feet on an uncontested mid range jump shot turning it over

Big deal. Show me a player who never turns it over and I'll show you someone riding the pine, next imperfection please...

Cosmic - drives recklessly to the rim and just plain losses the ball after having no idea if he was going to dunk it or lay it up

Wrong. The Mayor got caught being indecisive. You might be indecisive too if you had his hops. To say he had "no idea" is just plain being a hatter.

Cosmic - twice late in the game he blew his defensive assignment leading to wide open 3s for the cats that got them right back into the game.

Okay, he leads the team in scoring and makes some clutch plays down the stretch and all you can do is point a finger at a defensive assignment that you claim is totally his fault.

C'mon. I would have a lot more respect for your opinion if it were valid tonight but the young man goes for 19 and 7 and all you have are flaws to highlight?

If Gallinari went for 19 and 7 you would be bagging confetti for his parade.

[Edited by - misterearl on 12-31-2008 01:07 AM]

& if Jamal went 19 and 7 and we won, he woulda... ah, forget it.
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misterearl
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12/31/2008  8:32 AM
I love this nitpick the most

"Cosmic - drives recklessly to the rim and just plain losses the ball after having no idea if he was going to dunk it or lay it up"

Anyone who has played basketball KNOWS that to drive to the rack in the first place you need to be a bit reckless, or ferocious. To drive it hard to the rack is an indication of being fearless because you know you will get hit. And that's on the playground.

"Chandler stemmed the tide on the next possession, barreling with ferocity down the lane, getting fouled in the lane by Diaw and plunging through for a continuation layup.

Chandler made the free throw, putting the Knicks up 85-83 and they never let Charlotte get the lead back.

Two possessions later, Chandler scored again on a driving layup. He also grabbed a tough one-handed rebound with 56.5 seconds left and was fouled by Diaw.

Chandler's biggest contribution may have been on defense, when the Knicks were up 89-87, when he blocked Felton's drive to the hole with 38.2 seconds left.

"I didn't mean to take it into my own hands," Chandler said. "I was just being aggressive." (-NYPost)

Now imagine the mindset required to drive against guys who are between 6'7 and 6'11 and chiseled like Okafor. It also demands split-second adjustments because defenders in the pros leap like gazelles. When you have an option of making several different moves, yes, even Dr J was sometimes caught in mid-sentence. It happens to the best of them. I ain't sweatin' a virtual rookie for being caught undecided between a layup or a dunk.


The Mayor ain't no punk.

[Edited by - misterearl on 12-31-2008 08:36 AM]
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Bippity10
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12/31/2008  9:17 AM
I loved the play of Chandler last night. He was erratic and made mistakes but remember he is essentially a rookie and THEY ALL DO THIS. I did like that in the 4th quarter he did not sit back and wait for someone else to get things done. He rebounded and scored and most importantly turned his effort level up 3 notches with the game on the line. If only he and others could find a way to summon this every night. It's a great step for Chandler.

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NYKBocker
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12/31/2008  11:08 AM
The Mayor is the classic 2nd fiddle to a superstar. Sorta like Pippen to MJ, Thorpe to The Dream, McHale to Bird. We just need the bonafide star for the Mayor to assist.

Maybe Gallo can be this player.

The Mayor plays with a lot of passion and works hard in the court. His BBall IQ is not there and I think he would have been better served with at least 1 more year of college ball.

Another thing I noticed about Chandler. The man's voice is the complete opposite of Gerald Wallace's voice. He sounded like a big Urkel.
misterearl
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12/31/2008  11:34 AM
NYKBocker - I am hopeful that Gallinari can provide some needed versatility within D'Antoni's offensive scheme, but to expect him to be a superstar within three years is a bit unfair to his NBA learning curve. For now, Tim Thomas will keep the spot warm. If Gallinari studies Thomas carefully, he can superimpose his practice regimen over the moves of his 6'10 counterpart, and build from there. If he brings a commitmment to work hard, who knows?

Just bear in mind, it took another yoot (who skipped college ball), Kobe, four years to find his superstar groove. That would make Danilo's breakout "lightbulb flash" season somewhere around early 2013.

We should give eternal thanks if it happens earlier.

By 2013, Chandler will be entering his Wonder years as a 27 year-old, NBA veteran with six years under his belt, averaging 21.7 points, 5.4 assists and 10.3 rebounds per game.

You heard it here first



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NYKBocker
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12/31/2008  11:44 AM
Posted by misterearl:

NYKBocker - I am hopeful that Gallinari can provide some needed versatility within D'Antoni's offensive scheme, but to expect him to be a superstar within three years is a bit unfair to his NBA learning curve. For now, Tim Thomas will keep the spot warm. If Gallinari studies Thomas carefully, he can superimpose his practice regimen over the moves of his 6'10 counterpart, and build from there. If he brings a commitmment to work hard, who knows?

Just bear in mind, it took another yoot (who skipped college ball), Kobe, four years to find his superstar groove. That would make Danilo's breakout "lightbulb flash" season somewhere around early 2013.

We should give eternal thanks if it happens earlier.

By 2013, Chandler will be entering his Wonder years as a 27 year-old, NBA veteran with six years under his belt, averaging 21.7 points, 5.4 assists and 10.3 rebounds per game.

You heard it here first

I agree with your post. I think The Mayor will hit stride a little earlier than that. 2011 is my guess.

Gallo has the game and skill set to be succesful. The only thing I question right now is his pain tolerance. Info about his back is really not supplied to the public but it does seem like he is babying it a little bit. Again, I am just a little anxious and I am just talking out of my butt. Somebody needs to hook him up with Megan Fox to make a man out of him.
Cosmic
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12/31/2008  12:00 PM
Earl, you asked me what I saw, I said what I saw.

If you want to discount everything he does wrong, and tell me I'm making things up, then that's your choice.

I'm not the only one in the thread who was concerned with his play the last six odd games, hence why this thread was born, you took my observations to task, I clarified them, you dismiss them anyway. That's just what you do though so no big deal.

TMS: Honestly, get over the Crawful thing already, it's tiresome, he's a bum, was always a bum, and sure as hell is nobodies savior. Jeez, you call me obsessed? Your last three posts to me just the past day bring the guy up. Keep it up if that pleases you this is my last reply on that trash you call a good player and lament trading.
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BlueSeats
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12/31/2008  12:02 PM
Posted by misterearl:


Even Papabear Knows That It's Called Nitpicking ...

If Gallinari went for 19 and 7 you would be bagging confetti for his parade.

Just curious, is Cosmic a big Gallo fan, or are you doing a little race baiting to celebrate the return of your old pal papabear, papabear, papabear, papabear?
Cosmic
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12/31/2008  12:03 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:

The Mayor is the classic 2nd fiddle to a superstar. Sorta like Pippen to MJ, Thorpe to The Dream, McHale to Bird. We just need the bonafide star for the Mayor to assist.

Maybe Gallo can be this player.

The Mayor plays with a lot of passion and works hard in the court. His BBall IQ is not there and I think he would have been better served with at least 1 more year of college ball.

Another thing I noticed about Chandler. The man's voice is the complete opposite of Gerald Wallace's voice. He sounded like a big Urkel.

WHOA! I think we need to take a few dozen steps back from that declaration. Come'on now. I know we want our young ones to do well and to impress us but the pro-Chandler posts in this thread are really on a level that is completely out of his reach.

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Cosmic
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12/31/2008  12:07 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by misterearl:


Even Papabear Knows That It's Called Nitpicking ...

If Gallinari went for 19 and 7 you would be bagging confetti for his parade.

Just curious, is Cosmic a big Gallo fan, or are you doing a little race baiting to celebrate the return of your old pal papabear, papabear, papabear, papabear?

He's just being a jackass nothing more nothing less.

Just cause I'm honest about what I see about Chandler, and that I was vocal about what a detriment that Crawful was to the team, I'm an open target for the "my team can do no wrong and if they do it's someone else's fault" club of lunacy.

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