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subzero0
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11/25/2008  11:07 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by subzero0:

Compare the trade the Nets have made to get ready for LeBron and then look at the trades we made. If you can see the difference then you will understand what I am saying. Even though the Nets may not get LeBron they have made some very smart moves to prepare for the summer of 2010.

Yi for Jefferson (a very good, very marketable player in his prime) is a good move to you?

Awesome move. They got a player with a lot of potential and also now have cap room.
AUTOADVERT
GKFv2
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11/25/2008  11:11 PM
You are comparing Richard Jefferson's value to Zach Randolph? Richard Jefferson as actually pursued by teams because he's a good player on both ends and doesn't put up hollow stats. That's why he went for that package.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
subzero0
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11/25/2008  11:15 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

You are comparing Richard Jefferson's value to Zach Randolph? Richard Jefferson as actually pursued by teams because he's a good player on both ends and doesn't put up hollow stats. That's why he went for that package.

I am comparing the Nets trades to the Knicks trades in general, to give you the sense of the point I am trying to make. The Nets didn't trade for bad players, they traded for players that may actually do something significant in the future.

Also, I mentioned this before Zach Randolph is a 20 & 10 power forward you can get more for him than tweedle dee and tweedle dum we have sitting over there on the bench.
subzero0
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11/25/2008  11:16 PM
Take a look at Yi's stats when you get the chance.
arkrud
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11/25/2008  11:19 PM
Posted by subzero0:
Posted by GKFv2:

You are comparing Richard Jefferson's value to Zach Randolph? Richard Jefferson as actually pursued by teams because he's a good player on both ends and doesn't put up hollow stats. That's why he went for that package.

I am comparing the Nets trades to the Knicks trades in general, to give you the sense of the point I am trying to make. The Nets didn't trade for bad players, they traded for players that may actually do something significant in the future.

Also, I mentioned this before Zach Randolph is a 20 & 10 power forward you can get more for him than tweedle dee and tweedle dum we have sitting over there on the bench.

Do you really think "tweedle dee and tweedle dum" will be in NY for a long time?
We will have a bunch of tweedle dees and tweedle dums passing along until this mess will start shaping in something called NBA team.


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Knicksfan
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11/25/2008  11:25 PM
Keep comparing deals and you will miss the whole picture. Different players, different deals, different teams. The Mavs, thinking of the Kidd deal, did it on a proven all star to push their championship run and failed miserably. The Jefferson trade, again, you can't compare him to anything we had, especially contracts.

So many aspects you fail to analyze, like contracts, experience, team and needs.
Knicks_Fan
subzero0
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11/25/2008  11:32 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Keep comparing deals and you will miss the whole picture. Different players, different deals, different teams. The Mavs, thinking of the Kidd deal, did it on a proven all star to push their championship run and failed miserably. The Jefferson trade, again, you can't compare him to anything we had, especially contracts.

So many aspects you fail to analyze, like contracts, experience, team and needs.

Like I said before I believe that Crawford and Randolph's stats and stock would have been greater given D'Antoni's system had Walsh only waited. If you disagree then disagree.

What has to be realized though is the Nets are building their team and getting ready for 2010 a lot better than we have been. You cant blame it all on the players because as I argued in the latter paragraph these players individuals values would have been higher. There is no way you trade a 20 & 10 player for Fugugly and Mylanta. Im sorry, but no.
Knicksfan
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11/26/2008  12:15 AM
Posted by subzero0:
Posted by Knicksfan:

Keep comparing deals and you will miss the whole picture. Different players, different deals, different teams. The Mavs, thinking of the Kidd deal, did it on a proven all star to push their championship run and failed miserably. The Jefferson trade, again, you can't compare him to anything we had, especially contracts.

So many aspects you fail to analyze, like contracts, experience, team and needs.

Like I said before I believe that Crawford and Randolph's stats and stock would have been greater given D'Antoni's system had Walsh only waited. If you disagree then disagree.

What has to be realized though is the Nets are building their team and getting ready for 2010 a lot better than we have been. You cant blame it all on the players because as I argued in the latter paragraph these players individuals values would have been higher. There is no way you trade a 20 & 10 player for Fugugly and Mylanta. Im sorry, but no.

There was as much of a chance of their stock to rise as there was a chance they could have injured themselves in the run and gun and become immovable contracts. I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion, but you lack a balanced evaluation of the situation to understand why Donnie pulled the deal he pulled. Was it too early? Maybe but it is a risk you take when negotiating. Still he got to do what he wanted to do, which was to get that cap space the Knicks desperately needed. He did his job, you may not like it but again, none of us is in his spot to know how good or bad a market for a player will be. And remember, there is a reason why he IS the GM and we are just fans. He is a pro, he is experienced in the job and knows how to do it.

And also you missed my argument about comparing situations. The Mavs did their trade in a specific time and for some reasons. But they did it for a guy that was an all star, was still performing at a high level and was a winner. Jefferson is another talent highly respected in the league and they got value for them. The talent we had, you just can't compare them using numbers. Anyone will look great if you know what numbers to use in comparisons. But the truth is that both players have deficiencies, bad reputations and horrible contracts. Those factors do limit the market for a player and Walsh knew that. And if he accepted the deal its because he thought it was the right moment to do so. And if you consider the moves, they were solid for both teams. We would like to always come on top of every move, but sometimes that mentality will not let you deliver the plan you may have. Just look at Isiah's moves, although we know he had no plan.
Knicks_Fan
TMS
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11/26/2008  1:22 AM
Posted by subzero0:
Posted by Knicksfan:

Keep comparing deals and you will miss the whole picture. Different players, different deals, different teams. The Mavs, thinking of the Kidd deal, did it on a proven all star to push their championship run and failed miserably. The Jefferson trade, again, you can't compare him to anything we had, especially contracts.

So many aspects you fail to analyze, like contracts, experience, team and needs.

Like I said before I believe that Crawford and Randolph's stats and stock would have been greater given D'Antoni's system had Walsh only waited. If you disagree then disagree.

What has to be realized though is the Nets are building their team and getting ready for 2010 a lot better than we have been. You cant blame it all on the players because as I argued in the latter paragraph these players individuals values would have been higher. There is no way you trade a 20 & 10 player for Fugugly and Mylanta. Im sorry, but no.

the Nets had Jason Kidd, a 1st ballot HOFer & 1 of the best PG's to ever play the game to trade to land them a talented young player & future draft picks... ur kidding urself if u think a team was gonna give us that type of package for Zach Randolph... Donnie did good just to dump the guy w/o having to give up any of our assets in the process.

RJ is a talented young player in his own right & excels on both ends of the floor... Jamal doesn't compare to RJ in terms of overall ability... i do think Donnie could have gotten better than Harrington for Jamal tho, i'll agree w/u on that... probably an expiring & at least a mid 1st round pick for Jamal is not out of the question... i still can't complain about the reasoning behind these deals the way you have been doing tho... we gained a ton of flexibility by making these deals.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-25-2008 10:26 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
subzero0
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5/8/2009  12:47 PM
http://www.theknicksblog.com/2009/05/08/lebron-hints-at-staying/

Anybody still think LeBron is coming?

[Edited by - subzero0 on 05-08-2009 12:53 PM]
jimimou
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5/8/2009  12:55 PM
Posted by subzero0:

http://www.theknicksblog.com/2009/05/08/lebron-hints-at-staying/

Anybody still think LeBron is coming?

[Edited by - subzero0 on 05-08-2009 12:53 PM]

most definitiely. it will happen.
PresIke
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5/8/2009  1:20 PM
maybe, maybe not.

there is a decent chance based on other factors. reading into what he says now, PUBLICLY, seems to not take into account all of the strategic reasons a smart man like he, or anyone else in his situation would not disclose his real intentions now.

if he was not possibly leaving why did he not sign a max re-up this year to shut us all up?

we'll see if he re-signs this off-season or not. that will be the biggest tell.

read my post from today...

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=31004
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
oohah
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7/8/2010  10:03 PM
subzero0 wrote:-Crawford
-Randolph

and we are supposed to be attracting players to New York?? We are going to be the Clippers of the east. Nobody is going to want to play on this team.

Bookmark this topic and wait until 2010, because after the Knicks are able to only sign the bottom feeders of that years free agent class we are going to be stuck in the draft upgrade cycle.

And no thats not a good thing because the kids we draft are going to want to go away from New York.

The trick is to keep the team competitive to attract talent.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for getting under the cap, but getting Al Harrington and losing Randolph for whomever right now is the wrong way to go.

Dear people who jumped on subzero0 who saw what was going to happen and said so...now is a good time to apologize to him. He was right and you were wrong. Respect to subzero0 who had the guts to speak up and say what he is thinking even if the opinion is not popular.

Respect also to Pharezone, Holfresh and other posters who don't run with the herd and had the courage to speak up and write the truth of what they saw was real and not fantasy. The Knicks have been the same old drama and garbage the past 2 years - the only difference is they had cap space.


oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
EwingsGlass
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7/8/2010  10:05 PM
Isn't ZBo going to jail?
You know I gonna spin wit it
nyk4ever
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7/8/2010  10:23 PM
lol, oohah thinks he's some crusader now
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
oohah
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7/8/2010  10:26 PM
nyk4ever wrote:lol, oohah thinks he's some crusader now

That was a pretty poor apology.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Allanfan20
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7/9/2010  1:44 AM
oohah wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:lol, oohah thinks he's some crusader now

That was a pretty poor apology.

oohah

The Knicks are a winning team now. Yes, that's an ass hang.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Childs2Dudley
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7/9/2010  1:52 AM
oohah wrote:
subzero0 wrote:-Crawford
-Randolph

and we are supposed to be attracting players to New York?? We are going to be the Clippers of the east. Nobody is going to want to play on this team.

Bookmark this topic and wait until 2010, because after the Knicks are able to only sign the bottom feeders of that years free agent class we are going to be stuck in the draft upgrade cycle.

And no thats not a good thing because the kids we draft are going to want to go away from New York.

The trick is to keep the team competitive to attract talent.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for getting under the cap, but getting Al Harrington and losing Randolph for whomever right now is the wrong way to go.

Dear people who jumped on subzero0 who saw what was going to happen and said so...now is a good time to apologize to him. He was right and you were wrong. Respect to subzero0 who had the guts to speak up and say what he is thinking even if the opinion is not popular.

Respect also to Pharezone, Holfresh and other posters who don't run with the herd and had the courage to speak up and write the truth of what they saw was real and not fantasy. The Knicks have been the same old drama and garbage the past 2 years - the only difference is they had cap space.


oohah

He was right about keeping Crawford and Randolph?

No he wasn't.


Childs2Dudley

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
jazz74
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7/9/2010  2:00 AM
well, lets see what happens the rest of the summer. there is no question that we NEED to be competitive this year. two years of this was awful ( really ten years). i hope tony parker is in play. rather explore splashing trades than cosmetic moves. we did that for a few years and it dont work. amare is not going to carry us anywhere. i hope tony parker is in play. that will be the next step and i hope that is what d'antoni is alluding to. the good thing is we have flexibility which we didnt before so we can make better trades. we have to.
nixluva
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7/9/2010  2:20 AM
Dude said no one would come here. We actually didn't get shutout! We landed Amare and we still have plenty of cap space. We'll see what other players DW adds. This worked out OK after the letdown of no 2nd max player, but really there were only 2 guys we targeted after Amare, Bron or Wade and they decided to team up. So the other 4 top competitors didnt get one of them either. We did well to land a piece with room for another stud. How did we fail when it's not over yet?
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