[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

can you hear me now?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 6 of 7 « First‹ Previous 4  5  6  7 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Anji
Posts: 25523
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 4/14/2006
Member: #1122
USA
11/4/2008  6:05 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

The NY fans being smarter than most went out the window in the 80's when coverage of the NBA went mainstream, and then finalized with the arrival of the internet. Once upon a time NY and Boston had knowledgeable fans with the best sports writers and announcers money could buy. Now, instead of the best we have Gus Johnson and Marc Berman, and the rest of the fans have the same access to league wide commentary as we do, with much of it better than the local coverage. The dumbest of today's fan know far more about salary issues and trade restrictions than all but the smartest of them 20 years ago.

-----

But back to Marbury... giving a player a clean slate isn't the same as guaranteeing him a starting role or even time off the bench, it means you'll give him a chance to make a new first impression. What was the first impression Steph made on Mike? "I ain't coming off the bench, I don't do buyouts, and there is always next year." Another season under the bus while Steph goes for his.

If, in spite of a clean slate, a coach witnesses a player embody behavior that has turned off coaches, players and managers throughout his career - habits that extended from off court to on. Habits you've seen undermine your own team first hand, setting up feuds, finger pointing, backstabbing and discord that only healed after he was traded - it would be nothing short of prudent to distance that player from the team as quickly and resolutely as possible.

The weird thing isn't that MDA chose to deactivate Steph, it's that Donnie didn't know what was going on because it happened "over the weekend," as though we should all understand the weekend is reserved for square-dancing and bingo back at "the home." Being GM of this team is not a 9-5 job, and we all knew the beginning of the season was going to be crucial, and possibly a powder keg - this is not the time to be shopping for hand towels with the wife.

Donnie is the guy who still keeping Isiah around, presumably under the notion that after he's done killing himself and blaming it on his daughter he could be useful to us. The same notions seemingly apply to Steph: after he's done killing another season and blaming it on his coach he might be useful to us.

Donnie, take your blood pressure medicine with a big swig of bourbon and show up to frikkin work already. There is much work to be done.


[Edited by - blueseats on 11-04-2008 3:46 PM]

This post is money............ maybe the post could run it.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
AUTOADVERT
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
11/4/2008  6:52 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by tkf:



well since you acknowledged NY is filled with extremes, then shouldn't we sit back and not prejudge the situation until it is played out. Should we not look to throw our GM and coach to the wolves only 3 games into the season, now that we know that this city is filled with extremist fans and media?

Who is throwing anyone to the wolves? The wolves are here. Woof woof!

And of course we are going to criticize, game by game, minute by minute. This is what boards like UK are all about, no? It wouldn't be very interesting if we held back all of our commentary until after game 82...

oohah


hence the very reason why we need to ignore the media and most of the fans in this city, and let these guys do their job....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
11/4/2008  6:53 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by oohah:
when? like the time we knocked their asses out of the playoff's with spree and Houston? or like his second go around here when we got him from toronto, chris childs busted his ass in the playoffs?

You've got a real short memory. You're going to individual games and to the last 6 months of his career trying to find something to refute me with. I won't do your research for you. Mark jackson absolutely owned Ward and Childs while they were our point guards. If you don't remember that, I can't make you remember it.

oohah


not really my friend. Last time I checked, the knicks went to the finals twice in the 90's, and jacko was not on either of those teams.... It seemed like we managed..

Yes, since we got to the finals I guess we couldn't have used Scottie Pippen either...makes sense!Jackson still killed us in so many games and we were sitting back with very poor PG's. If you prefer Charlie Ward to mark Jackson I guess there is nothing to argue about.

Just because we got to the finals doesn't mean we couldn't have used him. The first run was pretty much all Ewing and the second was Houston and Sprewell getting hot and coming out of a very weak year in the East, so I don't think that is really relevant.

Derek Harper had a great run to the finals, but we really could have used an offensive coordinator of Jackson's skill in game 7 to help Starks get off, no?

oohah

I thought this was about mark jackson. When did we have pippen and get rid of him?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
11/4/2008  8:00 PM
Posted by tkf:


I thought this was about mark jackson. When did we have pippen and get rid of him?

My point was that your point that since we got to the finals twice we were better off without Jackson was fallacious. We needed better point guard play because the offense was badly run every year since we have traded, more than 15 years now. But okay, I guess you preferred Charles Smith and Bo Kimble? That was a good trade to you?

Do you remember all the years where we were upset about the Knicks point guard situation? How many years we called Ward/Childs the worst point guard duo? How everybody was ecstatic about landing Marbury because of all the years of bad point guard play? How many times you yourself have talked about the benefit of a pass-first PG? How may times the fan base were upset that the offense was run so poorly and how hard it was for the team to score?

Now go back and recall how many times Mark Jackson completely housed the Knicks point guards during that time. Not 100% of the games, but something verging on 90%. All you have to do is go back and check the game logs. It is a fact.

Maybe instead of talking about reaching the finals, we would have been talking about championships.

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
11/4/2008  8:01 PM
hence the very reason why we need to ignore the media and most of the fans in this city, and let these guys do their job....

You'll probably maintain this opinion until you see something happen you really disagree with.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
11/4/2008  8:22 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by tkf:


I thought this was about mark jackson. When did we have pippen and get rid of him?

My point was that your point that since we got to the finals twice we were better off without Jackson was fallacious. We needed better point guard play because the offense was badly run every year since we have traded, more than 15 years now. But okay, I guess you preferred Charles Smith and Bo Kimble? That was a good trade to you?

Do you remember all the years where we were upset about the Knicks point guard situation? How many years we called Ward/Childs the worst point guard duo? How everybody was ecstatic about landing Marbury because of all the years of bad point guard play? How many times you yourself have talked about the benefit of a pass-first PG? How may times the fan base were upset that the offense was run so poorly and how hard it was for the team to score?

Now go back and recall how many times Mark Jackson completely housed the Knicks point guards during that time. Not 100% of the games, but something verging on 90%. All you have to do is go back and check the game logs. It is a fact.

Maybe instead of talking about reaching the finals, we would have been talking about championships.

oohah


come on oohah. You made it seem like we went to hell once we got rid of mark Jackson, you made it seem like he tortured us for 10 years when in turn, after we got rid of Jackson we went to the finals twice. That is the point bro. You like most of the NY fan base you described were just being unreasonable and wolf like. Just admit that statement was over the top and not true. The knicks without mark jackson went to 2 nba finals while jackson moved from the clippers to to the pacers to denver, back to Indy, then to toronto and back to NY again, while our less heralded guards helped us to the finals twice. So while you sarcastically throw out names like Bo kimble(which I assume you are attempting to be ridiculously silly here) it just goes to show why walsh and D'antoni should not pay much attention to the wants of thes bipolar fans. And why fans like yourself should approach things with a diffrent approach. Mark Jackson is a good guy, but he is not here for a reason, and to assume that we would be better off with him is baseless and typifies the thinking of NY fans that leaves so many of them bitter towards anything they feel is not the " NY Way".. Time for a change man..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
11/4/2008  8:26 PM
Walsh has really blown it since he arrived. Fans were so excited that Isiah was finally going to be replaced and fired for all of the damage and embarrassment that he caused the franchise. Walsh could have owned the city. Walsh instead reassigned him. There has been some speculation that this was so that the Knicks could recoup some of his contract when another NBA team hired him. When hiring a coach for a total rebuild in NY with a bunch of guys who lacked discipline, focus, character, and fundamentals he passed on the opportunity to hire a more authoritarian, defensive minded coach (Jackson, Carlisle, Skiles, Thibs etc.) that seemed to fit the teams needs. He also passed on the opportunity to bring back a link to the past when the Knicks won and the Garden was an exciting place to be in not hiring Mark Jackson. In hiring D'Antoni, Walsh brought in a guy who doesn't coach defense and refused to change his style when asked by Kerr, has short practices, did not handle media criticism well in Phoenix, and his philosophy regarding defense and discipline is that he expects his guys to behave like professionals. The D'Antoni hire was similar to the previous regime's philosophy of going after the big name even if it doesn't fit with your team needs. In my opinion Walsh also blew the draft. I think there is a good chance that Gallo will be a bust of historic proportions, possibly in the class of the Weiss draft and the McDyess trade on draft night. The Duhon signing reminded me alot of when the Knicks signed Jared Jefferies to the full mid level because they didn't play defense. The only difference was that the contract is only for two years. It also appeared that Walsh was going to do something with Marbury and protect D'Antoni from Marbury. That did not happen and it blew up and the franchise is again a mess three games in. Walsh even blew the easy decision, keeping Ew jr. and waiving Roberson. Walsh had to have seen how alive and energized the team and the Garden was when Ew got to play.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
11/4/2008  9:58 PM
come on oohah. You made it seem like we went to hell once we got rid of mark Jackson, you made it seem like he tortured us for 10 years when in turn, after we got rid of Jackson we went to the finals twice. That is the point bro. You like most of the NY fan base you described were just being unreasonable and wolf like. Just admit that statement was over the top and not true. The knicks without mark jackson went to 2 nba finals while jackson moved from the clippers to to the pacers to denver, back to Indy, then to toronto and back to NY again, while our less heralded guards helped us to the finals twice. So while you sarcastically throw out names like Bo kimble(which I assume you are attempting to be ridiculously silly here) it just goes to show why walsh and D'antoni should not pay much attention to the wants of thes bipolar fans. And why fans like yourself should approach things with a diffrent approach. Mark Jackson is a good guy, but he is not here for a reason, and to assume that we would be better off with him is baseless and typifies the thinking of NY fans that leaves so many of them bitter towards anything they feel is not the " NY Way".. Time for a change man..

No I don't make it seem like we went to hell, because we had Ewing. The team was still good. But our PG position did go to hell. The best we had was Derek Harper and the Knicks cast him off within 2 seasons in favor of Charlie Ward!

The Knicks point guards helped us to the finals? The Knicks point guards got carried to the finals! You've got to stop with the revisionist history. The first finals the Knicks were carried there by Ewing, the second finals we were carried by hot shooting from Houston and Sprewell, including one of the luckiest bounces in the history of the playoffs. I'll remind you: Miami.

Mark Jackson is #2 all-time in assists. If we traded the #2 rebounder in history and replaced him with inferior rebounders, or traded the #2 scorer in history and replaced him with inferior scorers you would probably think that was a big deal. That is why when people talk about pass-first point guards I know they usually don't appreciate what they speak of. Just look at the PGs we went through after Jackson, he was better than any of them as a player, and when it comes to being a floor general, just running an offense, none of his successors can hold his jockstrap. And he did drill the Knicks again and again at the PG position. Ths is factual, all you have to do is look. The Knicks were just lucky that they had Ewing to will them to some wins and the bi-polar fan base shytted on him as well!

Bringing it back to D'Antoni, D'Antoni is no Patrick Ewing. He can't will a victory through coaching. He is obviously oblivious to the atmosphere of the New York fan base and press. You can insult the "bi-polar fans" as much as you like, but I don't see how you can separate yourselves from them, I've seen you flip-flop too many times to count. The fact is, our fans are passionate and unfair, me included, and I try to be fair. The media is huge and bloodthirsty. D'Antoni thinks it won't affect him. It will affect him, that is a fact no matter how much you don't like it. Even more importantly, it will affect Dolan, and if it affects Dolan it affects Walsh, and if it affects Walsh you better believe it affects D'Antoni. Join me in reality buddy. This is not the south, all laid back. This is an intense environment, it doesn't matter if we haven't won in 35 years. Remember the Rangers 52 years? The fans still called for blood. You can complain about it, but that isn't going to change it. It is what it is!

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 04-11-2008 9:59 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
11/4/2008  10:27 PM
Posted by oohah:
come on oohah. You made it seem like we went to hell once we got rid of mark Jackson, you made it seem like he tortured us for 10 years when in turn, after we got rid of Jackson we went to the finals twice. That is the point bro. You like most of the NY fan base you described were just being unreasonable and wolf like. Just admit that statement was over the top and not true. The knicks without mark jackson went to 2 nba finals while jackson moved from the clippers to to the pacers to denver, back to Indy, then to toronto and back to NY again, while our less heralded guards helped us to the finals twice. So while you sarcastically throw out names like Bo kimble(which I assume you are attempting to be ridiculously silly here) it just goes to show why walsh and D'antoni should not pay much attention to the wants of thes bipolar fans. And why fans like yourself should approach things with a diffrent approach. Mark Jackson is a good guy, but he is not here for a reason, and to assume that we would be better off with him is baseless and typifies the thinking of NY fans that leaves so many of them bitter towards anything they feel is not the " NY Way".. Time for a change man..

No I don't make it seem like we went to hell, because we had Ewing. The team was still good. But our PG position did go to hell. The best we had was Derek Harper and the Knicks cast him off within 2 seasons in favor of Charlie Ward!

The Knicks point guards helped us to the finals? The Knicks point guards got carried to the finals! You've got to stop with the revisionist history. The first finals the Knicks were carried there by Ewing, the second finals we were carried by hot shooting from Houston and Sprewell, including one of the luckiest bounces in the history of the playoffs. I'll remind you: Miami.

Mark Jackson is #2 all-time in assists. If we traded the #2 rebounder in history and replaced him with inferior rebounders, or traded the #2 scorer in history and replaced him with inferior scorers you would probably think that was a big deal. That is why when people talk about pass-first point guards I know they usually don't appreciate what they speak of. Just look at the PGs we went through after Jackson, he was better than any of them as a player, and when it comes to being a floor general, just running an offense, none of his successors can hold his jockstrap. And he did drill the Knicks again and again at the PG position. Ths is factual, all you have to do is look. The Knicks were just lucky that they had Ewing to will them to some wins and the bi-polar fan base shytted on him as well!

Bringing it back to D'Antoni, D'Antoni is no Patrick Ewing. He can't will a victory through coaching. He is obviously oblivious to the atmosphere of the New York fan base and press. You can insult the "bi-polar fans" as much as you like, but I don't see how you can separate yourselves from them, I've seen you flip-flop too many times to count. The fact is, our fans are passionate and unfair, me included, and I try to be fair. The media is huge and bloodthirsty. D'Antoni thinks it won't affect him. It will affect him, that is a fact no matter how much you don't like it. Even more importantly, it will affect Dolan, and if it affects Dolan it affects Walsh, and if it affects Walsh you better believe it affects D'Antoni. Join me in reality buddy. This is not the south, all laid back. This is an intense environment, it doesn't matter if we haven't won in 35 years. Remember the Rangers 52 years? The fans still called for blood. You can complain about it, but that isn't going to change it. It is what it is!

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 04-11-2008 9:59 PM]


LOL.. flip flop. Nah bro. I don't flip flop. I watch and I root, if a guy proves he is no longer worth me rooting for him, then I change my stance. I did it with marbury and many other knicks. That is not flip flopping bro. that is being a patient, reasonable and observant fan!

As far as Derek harper, the knicks got him at the tail end of his career, a very good career, and he came here and elevated our backcourt. Next to Ewing, he was the most important piece on that team, because he carried his weight and more on both ends...

As far as being lucky in miami. I rather be lucky than good most nights... The fact is, that team was a finals team.

You can post all of the stats you want on mark Jackson, tell me, which team did those stats elevate? I like mark Jackson but lets be real, he was too slow to guard most PG's defensively, that is why guys like ward and childs were good fits for that team. The hit open shots, defended and played hard nosed.Knock them all you want. I can clearly remember steph doing the same thing.. I wonder how that worked out for steph? ROFL...

In the end oohah. with these blood thirsty fans and media, D'antoni needs to take the approach he is taking. He can't let it affect him, that is not the way to change a culture that thinks it is better than it really is. You don't make decisions because you are concerned with the fans and media will say, Isiah tried it, he even tried to cater to the media, telling them and fans things we wanted to hear. How did that work out for Isiah? I think you are just way off in thinking that management needs to make decisions based on fear of a fan base and media that at this point for whatever reason, valid or not is just irrational and unreasonable. Even you admit that. Why give in to a fan base who reacts that way. Is that what you are saying they should do? that is slippery slope. Slippery!!!

As far as reality goes. I may live in the south, but I am NY born and bred. I think you need to wake up and join me in reality, NO one gives a good got damn what the fans in NY or the media think, they will cheer when you win and boo when you lose even when you leave your guts out on the floor. We even booed mariano rivera who has 4 WS titles.. again, never give in to irrational and unreasonable behavior.. I see you have already caved.....

I can understand NY fans wanting the best and not settling, that I can understand, and I am proud of that, but honestly, we have shown we can be some ignorant fans, we are not the only ones, but we are up there with the worst, the marbury chants prove that point. NY fans will never change? fine, but after almost 40 years with this behavior and no rings, are we not smart enough to realize this type of behavior doesn't = wins. Doesn't change a thing?



[Edited by - tkf on 04-11-2008 10:30 PM]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
11/4/2008  11:49 PM
LOL.. flip flop. Nah bro. I don't flip flop. I watch and I root, if a guy proves he is no longer worth me rooting for him, then I change my stance. I did it with marbury and many other knicks. That is not flip flopping bro. that is being a patient, reasonable and observant fan!

Other people are bi-polar. When you do it you "change your stance". Got it. I've seen quite a bit of stance changing from you. On a night-to-night basis.
As far as Derek harper, the knicks got him at the tail end of his career, a very good career, and he came here and elevated our backcourt. Next to Ewing, he was the most important piece on that team, because he carried his weight and more on both ends...

Harper more important than Oakley and Starks? You gotta be kidding me.
You can post all of the stats you want on mark Jackson, tell me, which team did those stats elevate? I like mark Jackson but lets be real, he was too slow to guard most PG's defensively, that is why guys like ward and childs were good fits for that team.

Ward and Childs were below average players who had their deficiencies masked by Ewing and Oakley.

Who did Mark jackson elevate? That is such a silly question it makes me think that you really haven't been watching. Mark Jackson elevated offensive stiffs like Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Rik Smits and so many more I don't have time to list them, from bad offensive players to strong offensive options.

Who else'es game did Jackson Elevate? how about a guy named Patrick Ewing? Just look at Ewing's scoring averages when he played with Jackson, and notice how they drop steadily after Jackson was traded. I'll leave that for you as a homework assignment.
The hit open shots, defended and played hard nosed.Knock them all you want. I can clearly remember steph doing the same thing.. I wonder how that worked out for steph? ROFL...

Wow. You just described Chris Duhon. Ward and Childs were average players who got carried through their whole Knicks careers. next you'll be extolling how good Monty Williams was. And I bet you were happy as hell when Ward was gone and Steph came here. Only now you have flip-flo---I mean changed your stance.

As far as reality goes. I may live in the south, but I am NY born and bred. I think you need to wake up and join me in reality, NO one gives a good got damn what the fans in NY or the media think, they will cheer when you win and boo when you lose even when you leave your guts out on the floor. We even booed mariano rivera who has 4 WS titles.. again, never give in to irrational and unreasonable behavior.. I see you have already caved.....

I can understand NY fans wanting the best and not settling, that I can understand, and I am proud of that, but honestly, we have shown we can be some ignorant fans, we are not the only ones, but we are up there with the worst, the marbury chants prove that point. NY fans will never change? fine, but after almost 40 years with this behavior and no rings, are we not smart enough to realize this type of behavior doesn't = wins. Doesn't change a thing?

I understand You're New York born and bred but I think you have forgotten how it is here. that is why your argument of tryig to change fan's behavior is plain old silly! It ain't going to happen! good luck with that.

I don't know what you mean by "caved". You can walk around like a zombie going "Walsh knows what he is doing"..."D'Antoni knows what he is doing"...ignoring the evidence that all is not right...at some point you'll wake up and flip-flo---I mean "change your stance". And then you'll be going at the holdouts just as hard as you're going at me, all bi-polar like!

Good night!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
11/5/2008  12:43 AM
Posted by oohah:
LOL.. flip flop. Nah bro. I don't flip flop. I watch and I root, if a guy proves he is no longer worth me rooting for him, then I change my stance. I did it with marbury and many other knicks. That is not flip flopping bro. that is being a patient, reasonable and observant fan!

Other people are bi-polar. When you do it you "change your stance". Got it. I've seen quite a bit of stance changing from you. On a night-to-night basis.
As far as Derek harper, the knicks got him at the tail end of his career, a very good career, and he came here and elevated our backcourt. Next to Ewing, he was the most important piece on that team, because he carried his weight and more on both ends...

Harper more important than Oakley and Starks? You gotta be kidding me.
You can post all of the stats you want on mark Jackson, tell me, which team did those stats elevate? I like mark Jackson but lets be real, he was too slow to guard most PG's defensively, that is why guys like ward and childs were good fits for that team.

Ward and Childs were below average players who had their deficiencies masked by Ewing and Oakley.

Who did Mark jackson elevate? That is such a silly question it makes me think that you really haven't been watching. Mark Jackson elevated offensive stiffs like Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Rik Smits and so many more I don't have time to list them, from bad offensive players to strong offensive options.

Who else'es game did Jackson Elevate? how about a guy named Patrick Ewing? Just look at Ewing's scoring averages when he played with Jackson, and notice how they drop steadily after Jackson was traded. I'll leave that for you as a homework assignment.
The hit open shots, defended and played hard nosed.Knock them all you want. I can clearly remember steph doing the same thing.. I wonder how that worked out for steph? ROFL...

Wow. You just described Chris Duhon. Ward and Childs were average players who got carried through their whole Knicks careers. next you'll be extolling how good Monty Williams was. And I bet you were happy as hell when Ward was gone and Steph came here. Only now you have flip-flo---I mean changed your stance.

As far as reality goes. I may live in the south, but I am NY born and bred. I think you need to wake up and join me in reality, NO one gives a good got damn what the fans in NY or the media think, they will cheer when you win and boo when you lose even when you leave your guts out on the floor. We even booed mariano rivera who has 4 WS titles.. again, never give in to irrational and unreasonable behavior.. I see you have already caved.....

I can understand NY fans wanting the best and not settling, that I can understand, and I am proud of that, but honestly, we have shown we can be some ignorant fans, we are not the only ones, but we are up there with the worst, the marbury chants prove that point. NY fans will never change? fine, but after almost 40 years with this behavior and no rings, are we not smart enough to realize this type of behavior doesn't = wins. Doesn't change a thing?

I understand You're New York born and bred but I think you have forgotten how it is here. that is why your argument of tryig to change fan's behavior is plain old silly! It ain't going to happen! good luck with that.

I don't know what you mean by "caved". You can walk around like a zombie going "Walsh knows what he is doing"..."D'Antoni knows what he is doing"...ignoring the evidence that all is not right...at some point you'll wake up and flip-flo---I mean "change your stance". And then you'll be going at the holdouts just as hard as you're going at me, all bi-polar like!

Good night!

oohah



you need to go to bed with the mess you are posting... LOL

Seriously oohah, you don't get it.

Mark Jackson was a very good guard, to make it seem like the knicks were lost without him is Ridiculous!!!! And yes Derek harper was as important as oakley and starks when he got here. he elevated the knicks backcourt, or need I remind you of starks meltdown in the finals game 7... Harper gave the knicks credibility at the PG position and outplayed younger stars like kenny anderson when it mattered most...

And yes oohah, i am talking bipolar behavior, the type of behavior that will curse a guy one day and then defend him the next, just as long as it supports their views. I am sorry, I haven't done that and all you do is mention that I flip flop without any proof. It is getting old my friend...

Wow. You just described Chris Duhon. Ward and Childs were average players who got carried through their whole Knicks careers. next you'll be extolling how good Monty Williams was. And I bet you were happy as hell when Ward was gone and Steph came here. Only now you have flip-flo---I mean changed your stance.

ah, in predictable oohah style you are talking outof your ass. I was a childs fan, and could have done without marbury. But as a knick fan, i supported him when he got here and gave him a chance to do right as any fan should. Just ask blueseats, but as soon as marbury proved himself to be a team killer, I stopped my support. that is not flip flopping my friend. That is doing what most reasonable fans do. Observe, then decide, not this knee jerk reaction that has become so common place. And I am sure blueseats will confirm this, because he and I used to argue about marbury all the time. I stopped my support for marbury once he proved he was a major problem, now guys like blueseats saw through the mess earlier and I gave him credit for that, but at least he gave the situation a chance, he observed, then formed his reasonable opinions... As far as monty willams, that was just a silly and childish comment... Again, you have nothing to prove so you throw out these ridiculouly silly comments.... wow...
I don't know what you mean by "caved". You can walk around like a zombie going "Walsh knows what he is doing"..."D'Antoni knows what he is doing"...ignoring the evidence that all is not right...at some point you'll wake up and flip-flo---I mean "change your stance". And then you'll be going at the holdouts just as hard as you're going at me, all bi-polar like!

And this is what I am talking about. Both walsh and D'antoni know what they are doing, both come here with very good track records, but you assume that you know more than they do after 3 games into the season. What is not right, what is there to ignore? You are just like these media hounds who like to blow things up just so they can be right about something. throw enough out there and something will stick? right? tell me what is not right? that walsh didn't draft the guy you wanted. Tell me, what does your scouting report look like? Which combines did you visit? or maybe we should just let steph play, better yet cut him because in your professional opinion, with your years of GM experienece, this is the best way to resolve matters...

LOL.. I don't pretend to know more than these guys, I can dissagree as most fans can but stop acting like you are informed enough after just 3 damn games to decide that two men who probably have forgotten more ball than you will ever know are failing.. Unless you are behind the doors with these guys, how can you make such judgments after 3 games and 4 months on the job....

It is funny, as fans we want to change the players, the coach, the GM, and the owner, but we can never see as fans that sometimes we need to adjust our thinking... I am not trying to change fans, just the irrational and unreasoanble line of thoughts that seems to prevail at times . If I am being either, please someone correct me, I would never want to be labeled as such, and honestly I don't think I am. Can I like most fans have some homer traits, sure, can I be overly optimistic like most fans sure, but this unreasoning that you seem to defend and support is ridiculous..


Good night should have come long ago for you buddy...

[Edited by - tkf on 05-11-2008 12:49 AM]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
11/5/2008  12:48 AM
I just read on a forum that Billy Hunter has requested a meeting with Walsh and D'Antoni. So now the players' union is involved in this mess too. Come on. Just waive the guy already. Yes he may go to another team and help them win but you don't want him anymore so who cares. I am with D'Antoni at this point just waive him. This is now all on Walsh.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
11/5/2008  12:50 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

I just read on a forum that Billy Hunter has requested a meeting with Walsh and D'Antoni. So now the players' union is involved in this mess too. Come on. Just waive the guy already. Yes he may go to another team and help them win but you don't want him anymore so who cares. I am with D'Antoni at this point just waive him. This is now all on Walsh.

No it is on Dolan....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
11/5/2008  12:58 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by TMS:

no doubt, i hate what things have come to as well dude... & u gotta admit Marbury's been a huge part of the reason why this franchise has become such a laughing stock... it's not entirely his doing but the circus that follows him around is definitely not helping matters at all... the sooner we get rid of that nonsense the better.

All due respect, TMS but you can't bring yourself to admit that the Knicks got worse when Crawford arrived. They basically went from a team fighting to make the playoffs to the biggest laughing stock. As one columnist pointed out when do people begin to look at the guy who was a main focal point on two teams that have posted some of the worst records in their franchise history. Also, both teams seem to play better when he was not in the lineup. Marbury is part of the problem but to me Jamal is the bigger problem because people still believe this guy is capable of being a better player. Good game Bad game Jamal.

dude, do u see me making "we must keep Jamal at all costs" posts anywhere? if u wanna trade him, trade him... he's not exactly an untouchable... why u trying to deflect the topic here to Jamal as if Marbury's not the problem? both of them need to go, fine... first thing's first... get Marbury's constant distraction away from this team & then focus on the others... get it done & let's move forward already for the love of all that's holy... i'm sick of trying to lay blame at the foot of any 1 player when it's the entire core that's completely flawed... after u get that done, trade D Lee for another 1st round pick... dump Zach Randolph's contract for a shorter length deal, i don't care what kinda garbage we gotta take back in return... send Big Turd James & Eddy Curry to the nearest KFC w/an all you can eat coupon & let them both eat themselves to death, maybe we can get back a couple medical exceptions in the process... dump Jared Fishlips at the Fulton Fish Market as the catch of the day... do whatever the F it takes to fix this damn mess... i'm tired of waiting around for miracles to happen when we're not taking any action at all to get there ourselves... we ain't gonna fix this mess unless we fix the core.

TMS, I am not deflecting the issue. I agree that Marbury should go but it can't be let's oust Marbury all the evils of the franchise and somehow award Jamal the title of franchise guy. That's disgusting in my opinion because he has been at the core of this losing. I want them all gone too myself. Just waive Marbury. Tell Jamal they have no intention on resigning him and if he uses his player option then he will get a Marbury treatment as well. The same with Curry. James seems to be the only guy who doesn't mind which should tell you something about him. Curry seems to be pissed about not playing so there is a flicker of hope with his fat ass. I would pull Q right from the line up and just give Chandler his minutes. I think you are right if you aren't going to sign Lee trade him as soon as possible with a Randolph or Richardson. Because his weaknesses will only get exposed between now and the trading deadline. Give Lee minutes to Gallinari as well if he is truly your future. You are a 23 win team that acts like it was on the verge of the playoffs with all these veterans getting minutes like Malik.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
11/5/2008  1:44 AM
i don't see anyone here crowing Jamal as the franchise guy to build around... i dunno where u get that idea from... people have been ragging on his deficiencies for the past few years on a regular basis... everyone knows he's as inconsistent as they come & he plays zero defense... how many threads do we read about how Jamal's a bum or whatever on this forum? more than i can even count... let's take care of each problem in turn... first thing's first.

i agree w/u about Curry, he's the next one to get the axe... either he shapes up or he gets shipped out... the other ducks will fall in time.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-04-2008 10:48 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
11/5/2008  1:47 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by TMS:

no doubt, i hate what things have come to as well dude... & u gotta admit Marbury's been a huge part of the reason why this franchise has become such a laughing stock... it's not entirely his doing but the circus that follows him around is definitely not helping matters at all... the sooner we get rid of that nonsense the better.

All due respect, TMS but you can't bring yourself to admit that the Knicks got worse when Crawford arrived. They basically went from a team fighting to make the playoffs to the biggest laughing stock. As one columnist pointed out when do people begin to look at the guy who was a main focal point on two teams that have posted some of the worst records in their franchise history. Also, both teams seem to play better when he was not in the lineup. Marbury is part of the problem but to me Jamal is the bigger problem because people still believe this guy is capable of being a better player. Good game Bad game Jamal.

dude, do u see me making "we must keep Jamal at all costs" posts anywhere? if u wanna trade him, trade him... he's not exactly an untouchable... why u trying to deflect the topic here to Jamal as if Marbury's not the problem? both of them need to go, fine... first thing's first... get Marbury's constant distraction away from this team & then focus on the others... get it done & let's move forward already for the love of all that's holy... i'm sick of trying to lay blame at the foot of any 1 player when it's the entire core that's completely flawed... after u get that done, trade D Lee for another 1st round pick... dump Zach Randolph's contract for a shorter length deal, i don't care what kinda garbage we gotta take back in return... send Big Turd James & Eddy Curry to the nearest KFC w/an all you can eat coupon & let them both eat themselves to death, maybe we can get back a couple medical exceptions in the process... dump Jared Fishlips at the Fulton Fish Market as the catch of the day... do whatever the F it takes to fix this damn mess... i'm tired of waiting around for miracles to happen when we're not taking any action at all to get there ourselves... we ain't gonna fix this mess unless we fix the core.

TMS, I am not deflecting the issue. I agree that Marbury should go but it can't be let's oust Marbury all the evils of the franchise and somehow award Jamal the title of franchise guy. That's disgusting in my opinion because he has been at the core of this losing. I want them all gone too myself. Just waive Marbury. Tell Jamal they have no intention on resigning him and if he uses his player option then he will get a Marbury treatment as well. The same with Curry. James seems to be the only guy who doesn't mind which should tell you something about him. Curry seems to be pissed about not playing so there is a flicker of hope with his fat ass. I would pull Q right from the line up and just give Chandler his minutes. I think you are right if you aren't going to sign Lee trade him as soon as possible with a Randolph or Richardson. Because his weaknesses will only get exposed between now and the trading deadline. Give Lee minutes to Gallinari as well if he is truly your future. You are a 23 win team that acts like it was on the verge of the playoffs with all these veterans getting minutes like Malik.

now why do that? If jamals only crime is that he is not a franchise player or allstar then fine, but to give him that treatment, especially if he is doing what is asked of the coach and has never been a problem to this franchise is not fair. Do you think marbury is being benched because he is not good? No he is being benched because marbury made it clear, he was going to do things his way from the start of the season, he made early indications that the old marbury was still here and waiting, and the coach D'antoni must have felt deep down that marbury would be up to his old tricks soon enough.. But hey, if they can somehow get jamal and curry to opt out and it's better for the knicks, then so be it...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
11/5/2008  3:47 AM
tkf, where are you getting your information. The team president came out and said that Marbury did everything he and D'Antoni asked him to do (for me that is the biggest indictment that neither Walsh and D'Antoni are on the same page, just read my sign). Walsh went on to say he doesn't understand the situation at all. So all this feeling deep down is total bs. Who cares about someone gut's feeling yours or the coach. I have a deep down feeling that Jamal will still be Jamal. Meaning taking bad shots, performing And one and trick pony moves instead of moving the ball, making no effort what so ever to even try to play decent defense. Worrying more about his blogs (my God the man let his sister blog for support for him) then making sure he break down which way guys like Iggy and Green like to cut to the basket. Like Marbury it's been four years and I seen enough. Curry's up next after Jamal. Let's go by tenture here.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
11/5/2008  9:40 AM
Good Morning!
Mark Jackson was a very good guard, to make it seem like the knicks were lost without him is Ridiculous!!!!

"Lost" is your word. What I said is Jackson made a habit out of busting our PG's asses(factual) and it would have been very nice to have a pass-first PG who could actually run an offense, we have not had one since we traded him and have spent the past 4 years talking about how badly we need one. That's all.
And yes oohah, i am talking bipolar behavior, the type of behavior that will curse a guy one day and then defend him the next, just as long as it supports their views. I am sorry, I haven't done that and all you do is mention that I flip flop without any proof. It is getting old my friend...

You've seen me curse a guy one day and defend him the next? When and where?

If we had a search feature I would take you to the set of posts where you were telling me one day I could not criticize LB because I wasn't a coach, then a couple of weeks later you were raking him over the coals 10X worse than me. Bi-polar.

ah, in predictable oohah style you are talking outof your ass. I was a childs fan, and could have done without marbury. But as a knick fan, i supported him when he got here and gave him a chance to do right as any fan should. Just ask blueseats, but as soon as marbury proved himself to be a team killer, I stopped my support. that is not flip flopping my friend. That is doing what most reasonable fans do. Observe, then decide, not this knee jerk reaction that has become so common place. And I am sure blueseats will confirm this, because he and I used to argue about marbury all the time. I stopped my support for marbury once he proved he was a major problem, now guys like blueseats saw through the mess earlier and I gave him credit for that, but at least he gave the situation a chance, he observed, then formed his reasonable opinions... As far as monty willams, that was just a silly and childish comment... Again, you have nothing to prove so you throw out these ridiculouly silly comments.... wow...

Just writing that you are a Chris Childs fan ruins this conversation. I hope when you are writing in the future it will start with: "oohah saw through this mess earlier than I did"....Actually I hope it doesn't. I hope I am totally wrong. but I have eyes and they don't like what they see.

You feel free to bury your head until "The right time".
And this is what I am talking about. Both walsh and D'antoni know what they are doing, both come here with very good track records, but you assume that you know more than they do after 3 games into the season. What is not right, what is there to ignore? You are just like these media hounds who like to blow things up just so they can be right about something. throw enough out there and something will stick? right? tell me what is not right? that walsh didn't draft the guy you wanted. Tell me, what does your scouting report look like? Which combines did you visit? or maybe we should just let steph play, better yet cut him because in your professional opinion, with your years of GM experienece, this is the best way to resolve matters...


Now who is talking out of their ass? Gallinari wasn't my pick (Bayless) but I have barely written about him and what I have has been supportive.

Track records run 2 ways. Walsh's past 5 years with Indiana were a mess. Check your history. D'Antoni was basically shoved out of the door at Phoenix after all that success, don't you wonder why?

I am happy to give them time. In the meantime, when they look like shyt, or if I think they have done something great, I'll post about it if you don't mind.

Like I told another Poster, the "You are not a GM" argument is specious. If it applies to me now, then it applies to you when you "change your stance". Silly. Defend your position with your own thoughts. Come better than that.
LOL.. I don't pretend to know more than these guys, I can dissagree as most fans can but stop acting like you are informed enough after just 3 damn games to decide that two men who probably have forgotten more ball than you will ever know are failing.. Unless you are behind the doors with these guys, how can you make such judgments after 3 games and 4 months on the job....

Now who is talking out of their ass? I'm arguing with an argument you are having with yourself or somebody on realGM?
It is funny, as fans we want to change the players, the coach, the GM, and the owner, but we can never see as fans that sometimes we need to adjust our thinking... I am not trying to change fans, just the irrational and unreasoanble line of thoughts that seems to prevail at times . If I am being either, please someone correct me, I would never want to be labeled as such, and honestly I don't think I am. Can I like most fans have some homer traits, sure, can I be overly optimistic like most fans sure, but this unreasoning that you seem to defend and support is ridiculous..

I'm not supporting any fan behavior. I am telling you how it is and that it isn't going to change. Welcome to reality.

But you seem to think you can change it. Well first, here's a teaspoon, can you fill the Grand canyon with dirt for me?

oohah







Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
11/5/2008  11:32 AM
Posted by oohah:

Good Morning!
Mark Jackson was a very good guard, to make it seem like the knicks were lost without him is Ridiculous!!!!

"Lost" is your word. What I said is Jackson made a habit out of busting our PG's asses(factual) and it would have been very nice to have a pass-first PG who could actually run an offense, we have not had one since we traded him and have spent the past 4 years talking about how badly we need one. That's all.
And yes oohah, i am talking bipolar behavior, the type of behavior that will curse a guy one day and then defend him the next, just as long as it supports their views. I am sorry, I haven't done that and all you do is mention that I flip flop without any proof. It is getting old my friend...

You've seen me curse a guy one day and defend him the next? When and where?

If we had a search feature I would take you to the set of posts where you were telling me one day I could not criticize LB because I wasn't a coach, then a couple of weeks later you were raking him over the coals 10X worse than me. Bi-polar.

ah, in predictable oohah style you are talking outof your ass. I was a childs fan, and could have done without marbury. But as a knick fan, i supported him when he got here and gave him a chance to do right as any fan should. Just ask blueseats, but as soon as marbury proved himself to be a team killer, I stopped my support. that is not flip flopping my friend. That is doing what most reasonable fans do. Observe, then decide, not this knee jerk reaction that has become so common place. And I am sure blueseats will confirm this, because he and I used to argue about marbury all the time. I stopped my support for marbury once he proved he was a major problem, now guys like blueseats saw through the mess earlier and I gave him credit for that, but at least he gave the situation a chance, he observed, then formed his reasonable opinions... As far as monty willams, that was just a silly and childish comment... Again, you have nothing to prove so you throw out these ridiculouly silly comments.... wow...

Just writing that you are a Chris Childs fan ruins this conversation. I hope when you are writing in the future it will start with: "oohah saw through this mess earlier than I did"....Actually I hope it doesn't. I hope I am totally wrong. but I have eyes and they don't like what they see.

You feel free to bury your head until "The right time".
And this is what I am talking about. Both walsh and D'antoni know what they are doing, both come here with very good track records, but you assume that you know more than they do after 3 games into the season. What is not right, what is there to ignore? You are just like these media hounds who like to blow things up just so they can be right about something. throw enough out there and something will stick? right? tell me what is not right? that walsh didn't draft the guy you wanted. Tell me, what does your scouting report look like? Which combines did you visit? or maybe we should just let steph play, better yet cut him because in your professional opinion, with your years of GM experienece, this is the best way to resolve matters...


Now who is talking out of their ass? Gallinari wasn't my pick (Bayless) but I have barely written about him and what I have has been supportive.

Track records run 2 ways. Walsh's past 5 years with Indiana were a mess. Check your history. D'Antoni was basically shoved out of the door at Phoenix after all that success, don't you wonder why?

I am happy to give them time. In the meantime, when they look like shyt, or if I think they have done something great, I'll post about it if you don't mind.

Like I told another Poster, the "You are not a GM" argument is specious. If it applies to me now, then it applies to you when you "change your stance". Silly. Defend your position with your own thoughts. Come better than that.
LOL.. I don't pretend to know more than these guys, I can dissagree as most fans can but stop acting like you are informed enough after just 3 damn games to decide that two men who probably have forgotten more ball than you will ever know are failing.. Unless you are behind the doors with these guys, how can you make such judgments after 3 games and 4 months on the job....

Now who is talking out of their ass? I'm arguing with an argument you are having with yourself or somebody on realGM?
It is funny, as fans we want to change the players, the coach, the GM, and the owner, but we can never see as fans that sometimes we need to adjust our thinking... I am not trying to change fans, just the irrational and unreasoanble line of thoughts that seems to prevail at times . If I am being either, please someone correct me, I would never want to be labeled as such, and honestly I don't think I am. Can I like most fans have some homer traits, sure, can I be overly optimistic like most fans sure, but this unreasoning that you seem to defend and support is ridiculous..

I'm not supporting any fan behavior. I am telling you how it is and that it isn't going to change. Welcome to reality.

But you seem to think you can change it. Well first, here's a teaspoon, can you fill the Grand canyon with dirt for me?

oohah






NAH, I am not thinking it will change, just pointing out the unreasonableness of NY fans. You defend it, I am pointing it out, because most NY fans complain, when they are the cause of a lot of their own frustrations.... thats all..

Like I told another Poster, the "You are not a GM" argument is specious. If it applies to me now, then it applies to you when you "change your stance". Silly. Defend your position with your own thoughts. Come better than that.

How is that? Changing one's stance after they have had time to observe and watch how a situation unfolds is a completely different situation than rushing to judgement after 3 games man. why is that so hard to understand. We use that term we are not the GM because we don't know what is going on to make such quick and harsh judgments. Wouldn't it be better to wait and see than act like irrational wolves?

I am not going to argue any of the other points, not worth it. You keep repeating the same things over and over again. when you produce a good point worth arguing, I will engage...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
11/5/2008  11:35 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

tkf, where are you getting your information. The team president came out and said that Marbury did everything he and D'Antoni asked him to do (for me that is the biggest indictment that neither Walsh and D'Antoni are on the same page, just read my sign). Walsh went on to say he doesn't understand the situation at all. So all this feeling deep down is total bs. Who cares about someone gut's feeling yours or the coach. I have a deep down feeling that Jamal will still be Jamal. Meaning taking bad shots, performing And one and trick pony moves instead of moving the ball, making no effort what so ever to even try to play decent defense. Worrying more about his blogs (my God the man let his sister blog for support for him) then making sure he break down which way guys like Iggy and Green like to cut to the basket. Like Marbury it's been four years and I seen enough. Curry's up next after Jamal. Let's go by tenture here.

Good, but that doesn't guarantee marbury playing time, or time as a starter or even a minute off the bench. I think that is the point people are missing. Of course the GM wants a player to come into camp in shape, marbury has a habit of not comming into camp in tip top shape. I don't see the problem here man. Are you as upset that curry and jerome james are not playing either?

And what doesn't walsh understand? did he actually say that he didn't Understand? It seems now, after yesterday that everyone understands. So why can't we leave it at that..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Page 6 of 7 « First‹ Previous 4  5  6  7 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
can you hear me now?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy