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Trade on the way....and it Ewing JR!
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nyk4ever
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8/31/2008  3:24 AM
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by Ira:

NYKBocker, he's coming because of his name, not because of his hustle. That's what I don't like about it. Personnel decisions should always be about winning. That sets the right tone.

How do you know that he is being brought in because of his name? Did Walsh tell you this? The fact is that we got an extra player for Frederick Weiss. An asset long forgotten, if you can even call it an asset. This is a low risk feel good story. Also, Walsh said that he was trying to get a 2nd rounder to pick up junior. You calling him a liar? Worse case, it does not pan out and we lose the rights for the French Fry.

Thank you.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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Ira
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8/31/2008  7:14 AM
Ask yourselves. Would you be as worked up about this if his name was Smith instead of Ewing? That's how I know.
4949
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8/31/2008  8:31 AM
Posted by oohah:
I been following the Knicks almost to their last championship years. Ewing Sr. was already going down hill. Would you have preferred we kept him around another five years?

I understand that you may have checked the score but have you really been watching?

So let me get this straight: The Knicks only had 2 options: Keep Ewing around for another 5 years, or trade him for Vin Baker and Glen Rice who were breaking down and had horrible contracts? Oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense! Classic 4949!

Let me present you with a couple of other options the Knicks had: a) Let Ewing walk a year later and let his 18 million dollar contract come off the cap. b)Wait until his contract was in its last year 1 year later so the expiring would have been huge (18,000,000), and trade him for an actual good player or draft picks.

But you're right 4949, the best option was to trade Ewing for Rice and Baker. Right on as usual!

See the real "Ewing Curse" is guys who think that trades like the Ewing trade were the right thing to do.

oohah

Hey oooo, your making this into something else that it isn't. I didn't want Rice or Vin in NY. I merely suggested that it was time for Ewing to go anyway. He had his chance and jordan and Hakeem the dream took it all away. We can blame Starks too for that last second horrible shot he took in game six. And what do you mean 'classic 4949'?

I'll give you this much though. Once they got rid of Ewing, the deals just got worse and worse. Maybe that's the curse your talking about?

Some examples:

Houston contract
Larry Johnson deal
all the bad draft picks
suckbury deal
curry deal
jerome deal and so many other bad moves

All I wanna know is 'is freak'n Jr. really worth what people are saying he's worth' as far as talent??? No one really knows. And we'll find out soon enough.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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8/31/2008  8:34 AM
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by Ira:

NYKBocker, he's coming because of his name, not because of his hustle. That's what I don't like about it. Personnel decisions should always be about winning. That sets the right tone.

How do you know that he is being brought in because of his name? Did Walsh tell you this? The fact is that we got an extra player for Frederick Weiss. An asset long forgotten, if you can even call it an asset. This is a low risk feel good story. Also, Walsh said that he was trying to get a 2nd rounder to pick up junior. You calling him a liar? Worse case, it does not pan out and we lose the rights for the French Fry.

Yeah, and then you won't feel so good anymore.
I'll never trust this' team again.
Markji
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8/31/2008  8:35 AM
Ira is right that Jr was brought in due to his name. This stuff that Walsh would have drafted Jr if he could have gotten a late first round draft pick is BS. There were too many other better prospects available.

However, I still think it is a very good move. It helps ease relations with Patrick Sr; and with the older Kncks fans who were outraged that we traded PE,Sr.

We got Jr for nothing! ! ! ! Nothing....so what is the problem. Everyone knows he is the 16th man and doesn't yet have a spot on the team. If he makes the team and is the 15th man, great. If not, at least we gave him a chance. It isn't like we are battling for the League championship. We are looking to restructure our team and Jr is there in case we have room for him. This was a great move by Walsh and a very kind, unexpected move by an opposing GM. That is what really makes me feel good about this move. Houston's GM didnt have to do this for Jr, or for us, but he did. It was a gift.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
4949
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8/31/2008  8:37 AM
Posted by Ira:

Ask yourselves. Would you be as worked up about this if his name was Smith instead of Ewing? That's how I know.

If I recall, some of these guys were 'lets get Ewing's sone, let's get Ewings son' and then started to compare him and his old man. Of course it's about the name and not the talent. Some people are so pathetic in letting go.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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8/31/2008  8:52 AM
Posted by Markji:


We got Jr for nothing! ! ! ! Nothing....so what is the problem.

Or did we give up an asset we didn't even know we had, that could have been used elsewhere to maybe help ease our cap goals?

I can't stand nepotism, someone being brought on because of his name. Especially after our young guys worked long and hard, made the grade to get a shot at the 15 man roster. Hopefully Jr. will have to go through the same process and if he's given a spot and given instant access to minutes and is not the significant role player some are making him out to be, then people will be all over this one. It's questionable and as you's can see 'its being questioned'.

And to say 'it feels good' is a fools game. Never make business deals on your emotions. Make em on numbers and proof of character.
I'll never trust this' team again.
NYKBocker
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8/31/2008  10:09 AM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by Markji:


We got Jr for nothing! ! ! ! Nothing....so what is the problem.

Or did we give up an asset we didn't even know we had, that could have been used elsewhere to maybe help ease our cap goals?

I can't stand nepotism, someone being brought on because of his name. Especially after our young guys worked long and hard, made the grade to get a shot at the 15 man roster. Hopefully Jr. will have to go through the same process and if he's given a spot and given instant access to minutes and is not the significant role player some are making him out to be, then people will be all over this one. It's questionable and as you's can see 'its being questioned'.

And to say 'it feels good' is a fools game. Never make business deals on your emotions. Make em on numbers and proof of character.

I don't know about you but everytime I tried the tradechecker in realgm I always saw Weis name in the Knick roster. So yes, I did know that his rights was Knick property. If I knew this, then all GMs knew we own his rights. OK OK...maybe not popcorn man but most would have known the rights for the 7 foot French Fry was still owned by the Knicks.

This is an asset we have had since 1999, how much longer do you want us to wait to get good value? I don't know if some posters here can take that? Some are already in an uproar that Walsh has done nothing but sign Duhon, turn Balkman into a 2nd rounder and pick Gallo.

Question: If we got Ante Tomic, the 44th pick of this years draft, instead of junior who was the 43rd pick..would you be happy?

[Edited by - NYKBocker on 08-31-2008 10:14 AM]
4949
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8/31/2008  10:18 AM
Well, you make some fair points. I guess if there was something else that could have been done, then it probably would have happened already. And Ante Tomic @ 44th? Of course not. You put me in a tough spot and that's good, because now, maybe the Jr. move isn't looking so bad now. But he still has to earn a spot, unless the brass gets rid of someone first. I just hope it's worth it.
I'll never trust this' team again.
CrushAlot
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8/31/2008  10:20 AM
Who worked hard last year? Isiah didn't even have practices. If your are going to talk about nepotism what about Gallinari? His father was the coaches roommate. The Knicks didn't draft Ew jr the Kings did. He is a typical second round pick. He does not have first round talent but neither did Balkman. The rights to Weiss were not an asset, just away to get the deal done. He probably will not make the team but he worked hard enough to be selected by Sacramento in the second round so he deserves to be in camp. There are guys on the Knicks roster who don't work hard, don't have character or have major mental health issues. Ewings play combined with his character might get him a spot over one of these guys.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
4949
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8/31/2008  10:35 AM
Your gonna compare a roommate to a father and son connection? lol! That's like saying Hakeems kid gets to play for the Knicks just because Ewing played against him. And if you look at my response just before yours, you'll see that I already conceded.

And don't say that our young guys don't play hard, because they do. It's just the big money hogs who get all of the minutes. And how' many guys stay in the pros for a long time, who get picked in the 2nd round? Not too many that's for sure. If Ewing earns a spot, then all will be said with. And if not, then it never really mattered anyway.
I'll never trust this' team again.
crzymdups
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8/31/2008  10:51 AM
Posted by Ira:

NYKBocker, he's coming because of his name, not because of his hustle. That's what I don't like about it. Personnel decisions should always be about winning. That sets the right tone.

it's a pretty meaningless price to pay to make the fans feel good and take a flier on the son of a legend. his contract isn't guaranteed and ditching weis and bringing in ewing's son just feels good. we haven't had much to feel good about. there's no downside to this move. they gave up an "asset" most of us didn't know we had.
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Panos
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8/31/2008  10:59 AM
I can't believe we are even discussing this.
Frederick Weis was a not an asset, and everyone knows it.
He will never play in the NBA. If Jr.'s name was not Ewing, there would be no argument, and everyone would be saying what great move it was, that we turned, nothing into something.
Ira
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8/31/2008  11:23 AM
Posted by Markji:

Ira is right that Jr was brought in due to his name. This stuff that Walsh would have drafted Jr if he could have gotten a late first round draft pick is BS. There were too many other better prospects available.

However, I still think it is a very good move. It helps ease relations with Patrick Sr; and with the older Kncks fans who were outraged that we traded PE,Sr.

We got Jr for nothing! ! ! ! Nothing....so what is the problem. Everyone knows he is the 16th man and doesn't yet have a spot on the team. If he makes the team and is the 15th man, great. If not, at least we gave him a chance. It isn't like we are battling for the League championship. We are looking to restructure our team and Jr is there in case we have room for him. This was a great move by Walsh and a very kind, unexpected move by an opposing GM. That is what really makes me feel good about this move. Houston's GM didnt have to do this for Jr, or for us, but he did. It was a gift.

You make some good points, Markji, but I'm still not happy about this. For one thing, if he makes the team, he does take a roster spot - and maybe someone better gets cut. Even more important, this is a fluff move - it's not about winning. Donnie needs to build a winning culture and set an example in that respect by not making personnel moves that aren't about winning.
BRIGGS
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8/31/2008  12:15 PM
Patrick kind of reminds me of a poor man's Gerald Wilkins who plays tougher D. Remember Wilkins was a second round pick as well but was able to use his God-given athletic ability to compensate for some skill deficiencies--kind of like Gerlad Wallce on the offensive end. In this system Patrick has the potential to do something with his athletic ability in the open floor kind of like what Balkman did.
RIP Crushalot😞
Markji
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8/31/2008  12:39 PM
This is a very minor move but EVERYONE in the NBA and major college B-Ball world knows about it. And you best believe that Donnie Walsh just got some positive points for this move. Giving Jr a chance; making up with Patrick Sr. It shows a heart. You don't think this counts when a FA is thinking of signing with a team? It sure does!!

And for all of you nay-sayers....no one is "giving" Jr a spot on the team. He is #16 right now with an non-guaranteed contract. Lets see him play first before we knock him. Right now, he just has a chance to prove himself. That's all!
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
kam77
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8/31/2008  2:34 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:



Walsh got him for Weiss. Frederick Weiss!! What is not to like?

Houston was about to waive PE jr. This trade lets them save a couple bucks instead. Lets not pretend Weiss was in any way a factor in the trade. He's just a body. Anyone could've made this deal. Heck, we could've waited it out and picked him up for nothinig.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Markji
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8/31/2008  2:59 PM
Here's a great block by PE Jr at the buzzer to win the game for Georgetown.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
GKFv2
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8/31/2008  4:28 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by NYKBocker:



Walsh got him for Weiss. Frederick Weiss!! What is not to like?

Houston was about to waive PE jr. This trade lets them save a couple bucks instead. Lets not pretend Weiss was in any way a factor in the trade. He's just a body. Anyone could've made this deal. Heck, we could've waited it out and picked him up for nothinig.

Exactly. But there is nothing to complain about here. It's as insignificant a move as you can make.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
SupremeCommander
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8/31/2008  6:13 PM
Yes, Houston was going to cut Ewing Jr. Ewing Sr. used to coach for the Rockets. As a favor to Sr. to let Jr. avoid the embarrassment of being cut, the Rockets swapped Ewing Jr. for an asset less valuable than a box of paperclips. Let's face it though, Ewing Jr. although not terribly talented has a high bball IQ and is tremendously athletic, and would be an improvement tot he team's practice. Ewing Jr. > Mardy Collins >= Malik Rose >>>>>> Jerome James
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
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