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Childress highly considering Greece (Its Official)
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oohah
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7/23/2008  8:56 PM
You guys are crazy if you don't think average players are important. The NBA loses 10-15 average players, and another 10 below average ones too, replace them with guys below that average, the average quality of play is diminished.

It can happen. Remember when we thought we could not lose international ball?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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tkf
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7/23/2008  10:43 PM
Posted by oohah:

You guys are crazy if you don't think average players are important. The NBA loses 10-15 average players, and another 10 below average ones too, replace them with guys below that average, the average quality of play is diminished.

It can happen. Remember when we thought we could not lose international ball?

oohah


but it has happened. we just don't pay attention.. and why would they be repaced with below average guys? There is talent out there that is above average.. josh childress leaves and guys like gallanari come over, guys like beasley, mayo, rose, bayless and gordon are drafted.. How is the league hurting at all...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
oohah
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7/23/2008  10:59 PM
but it has happened. we just don't pay attention.. and why would they be repaced with below average guys? There is talent out there that is above average.. josh childress leaves and guys like gallanari come over, guys like beasley, mayo, rose, bayless and gordon are drafted.. How is the league hurting at all...

It's happened in a Japanese baseball type of way, with players finishing out their careers in Europe, or starting their careers there. Now we are starting to see players in the middle of their careers make the decision to play overseas.

The reason they will be replaced with below average players is an American player in Europe does not automatically "push out" a European player who is just as good who then enters the NBA. The void will be more likely filled by some who are more on the fringe of the NBA, like Fennis Dembo.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
tkf
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7/23/2008  11:13 PM
Posted by oohah:
but it has happened. we just don't pay attention.. and why would they be repaced with below average guys? There is talent out there that is above average.. josh childress leaves and guys like gallanari come over, guys like beasley, mayo, rose, bayless and gordon are drafted.. How is the league hurting at all...

It's happened in a Japanese baseball type of way, with players finishing out their careers in Europe, or starting their careers there. Now we are starting to see players in the middle of their careers make the decision to play overseas.

The reason they will be replaced with below average players is an American player in Europe does not automatically "push out" a European player who is just as good who then enters the NBA. The void will be more likely filled by some who are more on the fringe of the NBA, like Fennis Dembo.

oohah


But they don't have to... those guys are comming over willingly. Just look at the guys going over there.. Parker was already over in europe most of his career, delfino, nachbar? those guys are small fries.... I still don't see your point..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
playa2
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7/24/2008  5:39 AM
Posted by oohah:
but it has happened. we just don't pay attention.. and why would they be repaced with below average guys? There is talent out there that is above average.. josh childress leaves and guys like gallanari come over, guys like beasley, mayo, rose, bayless and gordon are drafted.. How is the league hurting at all...

It's happened in a Japanese baseball type of way, with players finishing out their careers in Europe, or starting their careers there. Now we are starting to see players in the middle of their careers make the decision to play overseas.

The reason they will be replaced with below average players is an American player in Europe does not automatically "push out" a European player who is just as good who then enters the NBA. The void will be more likely filled by some who are more on the fringe of the NBA, like Fennis Dembo.

oohah

Oohah, they can't see what we are saying so let it go man.

A trend could be starting but they don't want to argue that, TFK is arguing, well the best players are still here NOW. Nobody is arguing that point, but him.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
DarkKnicks
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Spain
7/24/2008  7:50 AM
Posted by playa2:


It's ridiculous how top Euro clubs are offering huge deals to NBA role players.

JC Navarro with a $20 mil/4 year deal
Delfino with a $11 mil/3 year
Parker offered $24 mil/3 year
Scola offered some huge deal and now Childress.
The reason for that is pretty easy: because with that players you win in Europe. Navarro (the same basically can be said of Scola and Parker, though Delfino's contract is a surprised to everyone) has won everything in Spain and with the Spanish Nationa team. He was the MVP here, helped his team to be the best one. So its stupid for him to be in the NBA getting less money, playing less minutes to be considered just a shooter and not being appreciated. He is a winner, but his style of play/skills do not adjust very well to the NBA. But there are thousands of NBA players that do well in the NBA and would be pretty bad in European basketball teams. So it can be the other way around. I tell you Ben Wallace or Jamal Crawford in Europe would be getting 10 times less money than in the NBA.
I like NBA basketball MUCH MORE than European basketball, but IMO we have come to a point where you can not really say NBA basketall is much better (probably still a little bit better). Instead you can say is much different, and that you need a set of skills and mentality to do well in the Europe that is veeeery different than what you need to succeed in the NBA, but at the moment is fair to say that none has proved to be more succesful than the other.
NBA was the best some years ago, no doubt about that, but, just in my opinion the overrating/overpaying of 1-way players (not necesarily just the offensive minded players) has damaged the NBA a lot recently, and has changed your game more than we have changed ours.

[Edited by - DarkKnicks on 24-07-2008 1:52 PM]
fishmike
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7/24/2008  9:47 AM
Posted by oohah:

You guys are crazy if you don't think average players are important. The NBA loses 10-15 average players, and another 10 below average ones too, replace them with guys below that average, the average quality of play is diminished.

It can happen. Remember when we thought we could not lose international ball?

oohah
I totally agree and believe we have seen that over the recent years with expansion and in massive influx of high school kids (when they could still be drafted).

You have guys coming in the league that cant pass, shoot or dribble. Suddenly the NBA goes from a team game to a 2 man game with a bunch of 'role players' to fill out a roster... but what they really are are guys that cant play

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nyk4ever
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7/24/2008  10:09 AM
The "combo-guard" killed the NBA.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
tkf
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7/24/2008  10:27 AM
Posted by playa2:
Posted by oohah:
but it has happened. we just don't pay attention.. and why would they be repaced with below average guys? There is talent out there that is above average.. josh childress leaves and guys like gallanari come over, guys like beasley, mayo, rose, bayless and gordon are drafted.. How is the league hurting at all...

It's happened in a Japanese baseball type of way, with players finishing out their careers in Europe, or starting their careers there. Now we are starting to see players in the middle of their careers make the decision to play overseas.

The reason they will be replaced with below average players is an American player in Europe does not automatically "push out" a European player who is just as good who then enters the NBA. The void will be more likely filled by some who are more on the fringe of the NBA, like Fennis Dembo.

oohah

Oohah, they can't see what we are saying so let it go man.

A trend could be starting but they don't want to argue that, TFK is arguing, well the best players are still here NOW. Nobody is arguing that point, but him.


playa, you aren't saying a damn thing.... what point are you trying to make? average players have gone to europe for many years.. But the key is that all if not most of the best europlayers flee to the NBA.. so my question is, that you have avoided all thread long is this... If good players enter the NBA draft from college every year(beasley, rose, mayo etc), The best euro players continue to enter the draft every year, and we lose just marginal talented players, How is that going to hurt the NBA? just answer that!!!!!!!!!!!!


[Edited by - tkf on 24-07-2008 10:28 AM]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
playa2
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7/24/2008  12:21 PM
I answered you all ready in a post earlier on this page where I said" I agree they don't carry the league.

But my argument was a trend was starting, 6th men in the nba have not been running to europe in the past only scrubs and older vets.

Oohah owned you with his post, answer him.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
djsunyc
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7/24/2008  12:25 PM
garbajosa signed with the same team as delfino in russia. 2 years equivalent of $13-14 mil US gross.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-24-2008 12:25 PM]
djsunyc
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7/24/2008  12:28 PM
rumor is that olypiakos gave ben gordon a 2 year $20 mil euro offer.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-24-2008 12:29 PM]
nyk4ever
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7/24/2008  12:29 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

rumor is that olypiakos gave ben gordon a 2 year $20 mil offer.

Thats the team that signed Childress right?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
oohah
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7/24/2008  12:53 PM
Posted by playa2:

I answered you all ready in a post earlier on this page where I said" I agree they don't carry the league.

But my argument was a trend was starting, 6th men in the nba have not been running to europe in the past only scrubs and older vets.

Oohah owned you with his post, answer him.

We're not doing pwnage at UK for the most part these days Playa!

We are doing a lot more "spirited discussion".

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
playa2
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7/24/2008  12:58 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by playa2:

I answered you all ready in a post earlier on this page where I said" I agree they don't carry the league.

But my argument was a trend was starting, 6th men in the nba have not been running to europe in the past only scrubs and older vets.

Oohah owned you with his post, answer him.

We're not doing pwnage at UK for the most part these days Playa!

We are doing a lot more "spirited discussion".

oohah

Why didn't he answer you then ?

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
tkf
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7/24/2008  1:11 PM
Posted by playa2:

I answered you all ready in a post earlier on this page where I said" I agree they don't carry the league.

But my argument was a trend was starting, 6th men in the nba have not been running to europe in the past only scrubs and older vets.

Oohah owned you with his post, answer him.


I already answered oohah.. stop trying to deflect.... clear that stuff out of your eyes..

Playa, one player does not create a trend... and you still haven't answered my question, don't worry about me an oohah, try carrying your own..


Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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7/24/2008  1:14 PM
Posted by playa2:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by playa2:

I answered you all ready in a post earlier on this page where I said" I agree they don't carry the league.

But my argument was a trend was starting, 6th men in the nba have not been running to europe in the past only scrubs and older vets.

Oohah owned you with his post, answer him.

We're not doing pwnage at UK for the most part these days Playa!

We are doing a lot more "spirited discussion".

oohah

Why didn't he answer you then ?

playa please, here is oohah's post

The reason they will be replaced with below average players is an American player in Europe does not automatically "push out" a European player who is just as good who then enters the NBA. The void will be more likely filled by some who are more on the fringe of the NBA, like Fennis Dembo.

oohah


Here is my response..


[quote]But they don't have to... those guys are comming over willingly. Just look at the guys going over there.. Parker was already over in europe most of his career, delfino, nachbar? those guys are small fries.... I still don't see your point..


Now stop hiding behind oohah and hold your own...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
playa2
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7/24/2008  1:26 PM
Terry you don't get it ICE WAS RIGHT.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
djsunyc
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7/24/2008  4:42 PM
Europe offers more than vacation to NBA players

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports Jul 23, 9:11 pm EDT

LAS VEGAS – The prospects of an NBA superstar making a leap of faith and fortune to the burgeoning European basketball market isn’t close, but it no longer seems such an outrageous possibility. As models for the perfect pioneer go, Jason Kidd does believe that his talents at 35 years old are suited to the Euro game, where size, strength and smarts are a tonic for declining speed and explosiveness.

Yes, Kidd is relentlessly committed to chasing an NBA title with Dirk Nowitzki and the Dallas Mavericks. Still, nothing is forever for him at 35. When delivered a premise about the possibility of someday following the Atlanta Hawks’ Josh Childress to Europe, Kidd confessed that no longer is it possible to consider your future in a context limited to the NBA.

“In the next four or five years, could I end up playing over there?” Kidd wondered. “Hey, why wouldn’t I play in Italy or somewhere (else)? That might be a great experience.

“It’s a legitimate option now with Childress going over there.”

As he prepares for the Beijing Olympics with Team USA, Kidd is under contract with Dallas through next season. He has his eyes on an extension past 2008-09, but who knows anymore?

“Why not?” Kidd said. “We saw the Euro players coming here, and now it’s kind of flip-flopping.”

Through the years, a lot of terrific NBA players left for Europe in the twilight of their careers. Some rookies used it as leverage in contract disputes. Even a high school player, Brandon Jennings, signed with Virtus Roma this month. Now, the next step has come with a young American-born NBA sixth man, Childress, choosing Olympiakos of Greece for a contract that could net him up to $20 million over three years after taxes. He passed on a five-year, $34 million deal with the Atlanta Hawks, as much of a statement on the growing worth of European franchises as it was an indictment of a shoddy Atlanta operation.

Make no mistake: A threshold has been crossed in the sport. Suddenly, Europe is evolving into a true rival in free agency.

Childress is no superstar, but he was a desired restricted free agent in the NBA. As the American dollar shrinks to the Euro and European operations increase in prestige and resources, so starts the irreversible wave of change.

“David Stern and the NBA have been promoting the globalization of the sport for years,” agent Lon Babby said by phone on Wednesday. “It’s only natural it would begin to flow both ways. It’s something players and agents now have to look at.”

Babby represents Childress, and never hesitated to push his client toward the favorable financial arrangements of the Euroleague. Some insist this is such a risky move for a young NBA player, but is it that much more of a gamble to leave one of these forsaken NBA franchises with such horrible ownership, such suspect direction and commitment?

When Billy Knight resigned as Hawks GM this spring, ownership was unprepared to conduct a search. Atlanta floundered around, unsure of whom to recruit, who should be on their list. One owner called Sacramento’s GM Geoff Petrie, and Petrie quickly rejected them.

Atlanta should have made well-regarded Cleveland assistant GM Chris Grant a more credible offer, but it was determined to do everything on the cheap. In the end, the Hawks hired unemployed journeyman Rick Sund. Give Sund this: The opening salvo on his watch – losing Childress to Greece – is a disaster for the Hawks.

As long as franchises like Atlanta and Memphis have such poor ownership, such little commitment and competency, no one should be surprised that players like Childress and Juan Carlos Navarro, who recently signed a reported five-year, $20 million contract with FC Barcelona, will find Europe a suitable destination.

So, how long until those rich franchises in Russia, Spain and Greece are players for the biggest stars in the sport?

Well, Miami’s Dwyane Wade laughed as he delivered a baseline bid to leave the NBA in the summer of 2010. “Thirty million a season, non-taxable?” Wade said. “I might have to think about it.”

The NBA’s salary cap and the declining American dollar leaves open the possibility that a European team eventually will be able to make the kind of Monopoly money bid to lure one of the NBA’s superstars. It won’t be this year. Nor next. The summer of 2010, when Wade, LeBron James and Chris Bosh could be available, is too soon also. What if Europe decides that it doesn’t need to pay outlandish entrance fees to get teams in Stern’s league and it figures out a way to pool its resources to make itself more of a competitor?

However it goes, there will be a better and better parade of players leaving the NBA for Europe, and better Euros who never feel the need to come here.

“With the money being said that guys can get over there, it’s unbelievable,” Wade said. Not only do you have international players coming to America, you’ve got American players going international. And you’ve got big-time players doing it now. It’s interesting.

“If they offer me $40 million a year and no taxes, I might have to go over there. I’ll have to see you guys later.”


For now, Dwyane Wade was laughing. For how long, though?
playa2
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7/24/2008  9:38 PM
where is TKF now
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Childress highly considering Greece (Its Official)

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