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Duhon is OFFICIALLY (verbal commitment) a Knick
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DarkKnicks
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Spain
7/5/2008  6:39 AM
Im with Isles here. Useless signing. At least it does not hurt our cap too much.
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fishmike
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7/5/2008  7:40 AM
at the very worst Duhon is part of a culture change. Away from the do what you want chuck the ball at the rim Isiah team to a team oriented, play the right way, defend and team ball guy.

Maybe Duhon isnt anything more than the next Charlie Ward, but he takes care of the ball, has a winning pedigree and yea... he plays the right way
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Markji
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7/5/2008  8:09 AM
From Newsday this AM - quotes from Nash about D'Antoni
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix055753272jul05,0,2298503.story?track=rss
After Chris Duhon met with the Knicks and Magic, he went home to Chicago and slept on it. In the morning, he sent a text message to Steve Nash, asking if they could talk it over.

Once that message left Duhon's phone, beamed up to a satellite somewhere, and landed in Nash's phone, it was all over. Mike D'Antoni's former point guard found his old coach a new one.

Duhon chose starting for the Knicks over being a backup in Orlando, agreeing Friday to a two-year deal for the full mid-level exception of about $12 million. But Duhon's agent, Kevin Bradbury of BDA Sports, said there were more than 12 million reasons.

"Playing in New York, playing in Madison Square Garden, being a starting point guard, helping turn this around and getting a chance to play for D'Antoni," Bradbury said. "Steve said, 'Man, you don't even understand the stuff that D'Antoni did for me.' With all that, Chris called me [Friday] morning and said, 'I don't want to sit back and wonder what might have happened if I had gone to New York.'"
I think his should end any discussion on the value of D'Antoni as a coach and how he makes players and teams better. We have a coach who makes players better. We have a new starting PG. And IMO, we'll have our "under-achieving" players start to perform at higher levels. I'm happy!


[Edited by - markji on 07-05-2008 07:10 AM]
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Bonn1997
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7/5/2008  8:26 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by martin:

BRIGGS, minutes? Banks, Nash, Bell, Barbosa?

martinm--the onl;y thing that matters here is that they gave Banks a full MLE because Dantoni wanted him as the back up PG--that kind of kills his player evaluation credibility a tad. Chris Duhon is a 39% lifetime back up PG who we just gave 6mm per to--so what--who did he make better on chicago tyrus thomas? how about nobody.

You're still citing his FG%? You still don't understand that 2s and 3s are not the same?
oohah
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7/5/2008  10:01 AM
The Duhon siging is good if D'Antoni can get him shooting around 45%. Otherwise he's yet another low-percentage shooter from our guards and bad perimeter shooting makes it tough for the Knicks' interior scorers.

As long as we are going with ex-Bulls and Euro-league guys, why don't the Knicks have a look at Nocioni? He fits the bill perfectly for D'Anotin: He a good scorer who can shoot pretty well from everywhere including from 3, he's reasonably athletic, and he rebounds, handles and passes well. He also plays D.

I like Krstic too. He might be relatively cheap after missing most of last szeason but the guys is a great shooter, and an average rebounder for a center. He's not fast, but he can run the floor and he's still young.

If the goal is to acquire shooters/scorers for a ball-moving style, Nocioni and Krstic are 2 players I would take a good look at.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TheGame
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7/5/2008  10:19 AM
Been enjoying the 4th of July weekend so I have not chimed in. Duhon is a solid pg. Not a top-caliber starter, but he will get us in the offense and play solid defense. We need a low-turnover, solid defensive pg for this team. We have enough scorers. This signing is a success if:

1) Duhon can do a solid job of getting the ball into the post
2) We get improved defensive play on the perimeter at the pg poisition'
3) We get rid of Marbury and as a result, team chemistry improves
4) We continue to develop Nate as our future back-up pg.

In 2 years Duhon's deal comes off the books. If he proves to be better than what we thought, we can resign him and trade nate. If he proves to be what we think, we let him go and Nate (after two more seasons of seasoning) should be ready to be our primary backup pg. This is a small step in the scheme of things but this is how you slowly build a team.

I agree with BRIGGS though that the main thing is to develop Gallinari and Chandler (who I think has alot of potential and could really become a player in this league).

This move is simply a "let's get a pg guard who can do the job without being a distraction" move so that they can evaluate this team next year and hopefully improve the trade value of guys like Randolph, Curry, and Crawford. If we can make some Portland-like moves a put up draft picks and young talent, we would be in good shape going forward.
Trust the Process
Ira
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7/5/2008  10:35 AM
Posted by Markji:

From Newsday this AM - quotes from Nash about D'Antoni
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix055753272jul05,0,2298503.story?track=rss
After Chris Duhon met with the Knicks and Magic, he went home to Chicago and slept on it. In the morning, he sent a text message to Steve Nash, asking if they could talk it over.

Once that message left Duhon's phone, beamed up to a satellite somewhere, and landed in Nash's phone, it was all over. Mike D'Antoni's former point guard found his old coach a new one.

Duhon chose starting for the Knicks over being a backup in Orlando, agreeing Friday to a two-year deal for the full mid-level exception of about $12 million. But Duhon's agent, Kevin Bradbury of BDA Sports, said there were more than 12 million reasons.

"Playing in New York, playing in Madison Square Garden, being a starting point guard, helping turn this around and getting a chance to play for D'Antoni," Bradbury said. "Steve said, 'Man, you don't even understand the stuff that D'Antoni did for me.' With all that, Chris called me [Friday] morning and said, 'I don't want to sit back and wonder what might have happened if I had gone to New York.'"
I think his should end any discussion on the value of D'Antoni as a coach and how he makes players and teams better. We have a coach who makes players better. We have a new starting PG. And IMO, we'll have our "under-achieving" players start to perform at higher levels. I'm happy!


[Edited by - markji on 07-05-2008 07:10 AM]

The first installment of the D'Antoni dividend. When D'Antoni chose the Knicks over the Bulls, we all read about how the Chicago players contacted Paxson to urge him to hire D'Antoni. Players want to play for him. I hope LeBron is one of those players.
Uptown
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7/5/2008  10:58 AM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by Uptown:
Posted by TMS:

why would anyone bash a 2 year MLE signing for a guy w/a 4-1 assist to turnover ratio for his career? hell, if we'd have signed Marcus Williams to that deal some o'yall would be busting a nut like there's no tomorrow right about now.

What exactly will he add to this team? Marb is a better point guard than Duhon. Nates a better player as is Craw. This doesn't improve thie team at all. Duhon isn't a play maker, he doesn't make anyone better, he doesn't break down the D, get in the lane draw defenders, dish........He's just there. Yeah, he hustles, plays hard, but this is lateral move.

LOL.. how is that a lateral move? when all of you fans bitch and moan about our guys not playing hard and hustling.... this is far from a lateral move.. for it to be a lateral move, our team would have to have a bunch of guards who do those things... are you saying our guards hustle and play hard?

Its lateral because I dont think Duhon's presence raises the level of play or adds any wins to this team. I think the average number of wins this collection of players can reach is already written with or without Duhon. His impact, to me, is minimal.

Duhon hustles and plays hard, but if he didn't he wouldn't be in the league. I do believe that Nate and for the most part Craw hustles and play hard. We all know the book on Marbury. Removing him from the locker room will help, obviously, but replacing him with Duhon is an upgrade in the locker room but not on the court.
newyorknewyork
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7/5/2008  11:14 AM
Posted by Ira:
Posted by Markji:

From Newsday this AM - quotes from Nash about D'Antoni
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix055753272jul05,0,2298503.story?track=rss
After Chris Duhon met with the Knicks and Magic, he went home to Chicago and slept on it. In the morning, he sent a text message to Steve Nash, asking if they could talk it over.

Once that message left Duhon's phone, beamed up to a satellite somewhere, and landed in Nash's phone, it was all over. Mike D'Antoni's former point guard found his old coach a new one.

Duhon chose starting for the Knicks over being a backup in Orlando, agreeing Friday to a two-year deal for the full mid-level exception of about $12 million. But Duhon's agent, Kevin Bradbury of BDA Sports, said there were more than 12 million reasons.

"Playing in New York, playing in Madison Square Garden, being a starting point guard, helping turn this around and getting a chance to play for D'Antoni," Bradbury said. "Steve said, 'Man, you don't even understand the stuff that D'Antoni did for me.' With all that, Chris called me [Friday] morning and said, 'I don't want to sit back and wonder what might have happened if I had gone to New York.'"
I think his should end any discussion on the value of D'Antoni as a coach and how he makes players and teams better. We have a coach who makes players better. We have a new starting PG. And IMO, we'll have our "under-achieving" players start to perform at higher levels. I'm happy!


[Edited by - markji on 07-05-2008 07:10 AM]

The first installment of the D'Antoni dividend. When D'Antoni chose the Knicks over the Bulls, we all read about how the Chicago players contacted Paxson to urge him to hire D'Antoni. Players want to play for him. I hope LeBron is one of those players.

I don't expect D'Antoni to make Duhon that much better. Nash & D'Antoni were perfect for each other, Nash was perfect for D'Antoni's system. This stuff is true.

All we need from Duhon is what he already deos. Take care of the ball, play with effort on defense, look to set up the offense rather than looking to get his own shot off. Anything else would be extra.

The true test for D'Antoni isn't how good he could make Chris Duhon next season. It would be how/if he could turn Crawford & Nate into more consistant playmakers for others.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
newyorknewyork
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7/5/2008  11:24 AM
A backcourt of Duhon-Hinrich-Gordan averaged 45.6wins per season the first 3 yrs together in the east.

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DarkKnicks
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7/5/2008  11:52 AM
You can laugh at me but this signing reminds me of the Jerome James one.
We gave the MLE to a guy who averaged 5 ppg, 3rpg and 1.4 bpg in 17 minutes in a 50 win team (dont forget that). We needed defense so we overpayed for it expecting he would help the team in someway.
Now we give the MLE to a guy who average 5.8 ppg and 4 apg in 22 minutes. We need players who play smart and play hard, so we overpay for it expecting it will work. At least this guy is younger...
I really REALY really hope Duhon proves me wrong, but I think there are players undrafted better than him. I honestly think he was not going to be in the NBA in a couple of years.

Full MLE??? This is one of the reasons we are in a terrible economic cycle.
Vmart
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7/5/2008  12:02 PM
There are people who disagree with this move, I am against this move but its a low risk move, and that is fine because those who are really against this move have a need to have a superstar at all cost. The Knicks have been down that road before and it hasn't worked. Duhon is a decent player and when you get down to it the folk who are against this move will all ways be about the offense first. If Duhon was averaging 15 and 5 the people on this board would be flipping out about this signing.
BRIGGS
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7/5/2008  12:06 PM
[quote]
Posted by oohah:

The Duhon siging is good if D'Antoni can get him shooting around 45%. Otherwise he's yet another low-percentage shooter from our guards and bad perimeter shooting makes it tough for the Knicks' interior scorers.


How is a career 38% shooter going to be a 45% shooter? Remember he was shooting very low 30s mid way point last year and only a hot streak late in the season when things matter less got him back to the high 30's

He's a decent back up who is good at defense and not turning the ball over. He's a streak 3 point shooter with very little in terms of mid range and dribble drive. He's Howard Eisley part 2.
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DarkKnicks
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7/5/2008  12:06 PM
Posted by Vmart:

There are people who disagree with this move, I am against this move but its a low risk move, and that is fine because those who are really against this move have a need to have a superstar at all cost. The Knicks have been down that road before and it hasn't worked. Duhon is a decent player and when you get down to it the folk who are against this move will all ways be about the offense first. If Duhon was averaging 15 and 5 the people on this board would be flipping out about this signing.
Thats not true, at least for me. I just think we signed a low quality player for too much money, exactly the same we did with Jeffries 2 years ago. That being said, its true that is a low move risk because we have signed Duhon just for a couple of years, but it does not change the fact that we have wasted some $.
BRIGGS
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7/5/2008  12:13 PM
Posted by Vmart:

There are people who disagree with this move, I am against this move but its a low risk move, and that is fine because those who are really against this move have a need to have a superstar at all cost. The Knicks have been down that road before and it hasn't worked. Duhon is a decent player and when you get down to it the folk who are against this move will all ways be about the offense first. If Duhon was averaging 15 and 5 the people on this board would be flipping out about this signing.



Vmart--this move really is a non-issue because Duhon is not an NBA starter nor is he going to make Knick players better.

The GOOD part is that he ws only signed for two years. That gives me hope that they have something planned to radcially reduce payroll in that year.

The BAD part is the mentality--they are trying to slightly improve the team which brings us from crppy to mediocre if things pan out--mediocre is worse than being awful. I am not down with anything less than a plan that gives us the best chance to get the best players to win a championship. I am not interested in 38 wins unless it was with a whole new set of young players building on the way up--not the current cast. They want the current cast out--so other than Gallinari Chandler and possibly Lee no one else matters on the team. I would rather throw Gallinari and Chandler right into the fire than have Q Rich shoot 38%
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jaydh
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7/5/2008  12:14 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

[quote]How is a career 38% shooter going to be a 45% shooter? Remember he was shooting very low 30s mid way point last year and only a hot streak late in the season when things matter less got him back to the high 30's

He's a decent back up who is good at defense and not turning the ball over. He's a streak 3 point shooter with very little in terms of mid range and dribble drive. He's Howard Eisley part 2.

Why does Duhon have to be such a good shooter? Can he hit the occasional open shot? Yes, and thats all he needs to do as far as offense is concerned. He plays D and is a real PG, something this team just doesn't have. On top of that, its a 2yr deal. I just don't get why everyone is complaining so much over this move. For the organization, its a good move and a move in the right direction as far as chemistry and rebuilding our image. This move pushes Marbury out, less minutes for JC and Nate at the 1; win-win for me.







[Edited by - jaydh on 07-05-2008 12:15 PM]
VDesai
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7/5/2008  12:24 PM
Push the pace a bit, give him the starters job and 34-35 minutes, and Duhon could stand to average about 9 assists. Will he shoot well enough to play those minutes? We'll see. I think with Duhon its a low risk signing, that gives us someone legit to orchestrate the offense without Marbury here. I think there is still some upside to Duhon- he's not that old, and this will be his first opportunity to go into the season and be counted on as a lead guard. His assist rates were better than Hinrich's and Hinrich can't shoot for **** either. Seems to me that getting Duhon on a shorter term is a better gamble than taking on Hinrich's long deal.
newyorknewyork
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7/5/2008  12:30 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Vmart:

There are people who disagree with this move, I am against this move but its a low risk move, and that is fine because those who are really against this move have a need to have a superstar at all cost. The Knicks have been down that road before and it hasn't worked. Duhon is a decent player and when you get down to it the folk who are against this move will all ways be about the offense first. If Duhon was averaging 15 and 5 the people on this board would be flipping out about this signing.



Vmart--this move really is a non-issue because Duhon is not an NBA starter nor is he going to make Knick players better.

The GOOD part is that he ws only signed for two years. That gives me hope that they have something planned to radcially reduce payroll in that year.

The BAD part is the mentality--they are trying to slightly improve the team which brings us from crppy to mediocre if things pan out--mediocre is worse than being awful. I am not down with anything less than a plan that gives us the best chance to get the best players to win a championship. I am not interested in 38 wins unless it was with a whole new set of young players building on the way up--not the current cast. They want the current cast out--so other than Gallinari Chandler and possibly Lee no one else matters on the team. I would rather throw Gallinari and Chandler right into the fire than have Q Rich shoot 38%

If you were to throw Chandler & Gallinari into the fire who would you rather have them play with. Duhon or Marbury? Who do you think would be better for there development?
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franco12
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7/5/2008  12:36 PM
we clearly overpaid for this guy - I'll second the notion that there are probably undrafted guys out there with more potential upside.

Final judgment for me on Duhon is what is the follow up move?

Do we release Marbury? Do we trade Crawford or Nate?

If we got Duhan to give us flexibility elsewhere, I'm ok with it.

Otherwise, I'm really with Briggs in wondering why we are so hard up for 35 wins.
Vmart
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7/5/2008  12:58 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Vmart:

There are people who disagree with this move, I am against this move but its a low risk move, and that is fine because those who are really against this move have a need to have a superstar at all cost. The Knicks have been down that road before and it hasn't worked. Duhon is a decent player and when you get down to it the folk who are against this move will all ways be about the offense first. If Duhon was averaging 15 and 5 the people on this board would be flipping out about this signing.



Vmart--this move really is a non-issue because Duhon is not an NBA starter nor is he going to make Knick players better.

The GOOD part is that he ws only signed for two years. That gives me hope that they have something planned to radcially reduce payroll in that year.

The BAD part is the mentality--they are trying to slightly improve the team which brings us from crppy to mediocre if things pan out--mediocre is worse than being awful. I am not down with anything less than a plan that gives us the best chance to get the best players to win a championship. I am not interested in 38 wins unless it was with a whole new set of young players building on the way up--not the current cast. They want the current cast out--so other than Gallinari Chandler and possibly Lee no one else matters on the team. I would rather throw Gallinari and Chandler right into the fire than have Q Rich shoot 38%

BRIGGS you are contradicting yourself one minute you have the tank is on and the next you have them becoming mediocre which on is it? I agree with you you don't want a team getting caught in no mans land with draft picks and all, but being mediocre with young players is different than being mediocre with player past their prime. With young players there is alway a possibility that they will get better, with old vets there is a possibility they will stay the same or get worse and be stuck with a large unmoveable contract. The Knicks were in that situation a few years ago. Right now I like the idea of being young with upside and if the Knicks do manage to win 38 games next year you know there is room for improvement with young players and the goal of 2010 is still there to get that player who could put the team over the top.
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