Posted by fishmike:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by fishmike:

2.5 points is a jump?

I am getting a breeze from the swinging and missing.

When your previous average was 12.3 pts, that's a 20% increase, or yes a jump.

Try to keep up Fishy.

thats really not a jump at all. Some stats lie

Some people see stats and don't, or can't, explain them. Fish

Some people see stats and give good explanations for them. Isles

Why am I even bothering?

because above all else not being wrong is the most important thing to you, but you are, and your unable to back up your statements. Pho was an above average defensive team. Mike D did care about defense. The stats dont lie. The wins dont lie. Sorry this bothers you so much. Your just going to have to find a better reason to make 40 posts a day on why Mike D was a bad hire.

Maybe after we trade Zach for Carmelo Anthony and get our own "freakish athletic forward" you will come around. Maybe

Not really. If I'm wrong about D'Antonio, I'll be more than happy to admit it. But nothing about his tenure with the Suns leads me to believe that anything that I've said isn't true. I've been backing up everything, in great detail. You're the one who refuses to back up what you're saying. I break down your empty stats while you just choose to repeat them like a parrot, hoping that if you say it enough, it'll mean something.

As for Melo, I would have said LeBron, if only there were rumors saying that he was available the way there are about Melo. Oh yeah, that wasn't your point after all. You were just mouthing off again.

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by franco12:

Isles- did you watch any phoenix games last year?

They were able to play a swarming defensive style.

Yes, they didn't foul- but they avoided needless fouls and part of their defensive strategy was to lull opponents into playing up tempo basketball- still, you encourage your opponent to take a bad shot -

Really ? Swarming defensive style ? You swear ?

Phoenix gave up nearly 103 PPG last year, 8th highest in the league. You didn't even need to watch the Suns play "their" defense, because it never showed up, besides a Stoudamire block here and there on a sloppy and broken possession. Do you even realize what you just said ? They gave up more points per game than the New York Knicks, take a deep breath and put that into perspective.

How do some of you constantly defend this franchise's move after move when in reality you know what the likely outcome will be ? If you are happy the Knicks landed D'antoni for entertainment and marketability (like the money is coming to you anyways) purposes, more power to you. But don't sit there and boast about how great D'antoni is at getting his players to play swarming D, thats a flat out lie.

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by franco12:

Isles- did you watch any phoenix games last year?

They were able to play a swarming defensive style.

Yes, they didn't foul- but they avoided needless fouls and part of their defensive strategy was to lull opponents into playing up tempo basketball- still, you encourage your opponent to take a bad shot -

Really ? Swarming defensive style ? You swear ?

Phoenix gave up nearly 103 PPG last year, 8th highest in the league. You didn't even need to watch the Suns play "their" defense, because it never showed up, besides a Stoudamire block here and there on a sloppy and broken possession. Do you even realize what you just said ? They gave up more points per game than the New York Knicks, take a deep breath and put that into perspective.

How do some of you constantly defend this franchise's move after move when in reality you know what the likely outcome will be ? If you are happy the Knicks landed D'antoni for entertainment and marketability (like the money is coming to you anyways) purposes, more power to you. But don't sit there and boast about how great D'antoni is at getting his players to play swarming D, thats a flat out lie.

more possesions = more points. I will ask you the same questions I asked Isles. They were 12th in the league in opposing FG%, 10th in the league in opponents FT attempts and 4th in the league in defensive rebounding differential. These are not suffocating stats, but the Suns played defense and we an above average defensive team. If the Suns were so pourous why didnt opponents shoot better? Why didnt they go to the line more? And why couldnt they get more offensive rebounds?

Simple questions...

More possessions, more points. Until you face San Antonio in the 2nd round and get eliminated after a hunky dory "defense" got you there. I don't recall Phoenix winning a championship, do you ? So somewhere along the line, D'antoni's cute schoolyard offense and defense wasn't as effective as you all think, am I wrong there ?

I'm not going to argue over numbers. The proof is in the pudding. Do you even have any idea why Cleveland and San Antonio went to the finals last year ? Start with doing some research. I'll give you a hint, it starts with the letter "D". Both the Spurs and Cavs finished #1 and #4 in opponent's PPG.

[Edited by - jrzyhustla on 06-19-2008 7:57 PM]

Don't even bother JrZy. Fish isn't going to listen to your responses anyway. He'll just keep parroting those stats without bothering to accept any explanation for them. He only accepts that "possessions" argument when it suits his needs.

Posted by Nalod:

I think the suns have avged 58 wins a season for the last 4 years.

So on average, that means there defense did not get it done 24 times a season.

I think if you outscore the other team more than not, you win.

Im not a smart man, but seems to me the guy wins. I think suns got hosed last year but thats just my opinion.

Thibs is abstract. Maybe he will be the greatest head coach, but not with this group.

I think MikeD can get this group respectable and then in time remake the roster. Evolution. gotta start somewhere.

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by Nalod:

I think the suns have avged 58 wins a season for the last 4 years.

So on average, that means there defense did not get it done 24 times a season.

I think if you outscore the other team more than not, you win.

Im not a smart man, but seems to me the guy wins. I think suns got hosed last year but thats just my opinion.

Thibs is abstract. Maybe he will be the greatest head coach, but not with this group.

I think MikeD can get this group respectable and then in time remake the roster. Evolution. gotta start somewhere.

I'm not debating about petty regular season games that involve the Suns versus the T'Wolves. Even Isiah's pathetic Knicks competed against the lower echelon teams. I'm debating what the Suns did against premier teams in the league during the playoffs when it matters most, and what they did exactly was fail, quite miserably if you ask me.

So the record you should be concerned is about 0-4, and clearly not 58-24. That's 4 chances the Suns had to win a championship with a Steve Nash, Stoudamire, and Marion in their primes. D'antoni couldn't get the job done with those guys ? Can you even confidently give me one reason why you think his hiring is an automatic success ? What does it guarantee to you basketball wise ? Because we know it already guarantees sell outs.

Please stop, you're making way too much sense.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by Nalod:

I think the suns have avged 58 wins a season for the last 4 years.

So on average, that means there defense did not get it done 24 times a season.

I think if you outscore the other team more than not, you win.

Im not a smart man, but seems to me the guy wins. I think suns got hosed last year but thats just my opinion.

Thibs is abstract. Maybe he will be the greatest head coach, but not with this group.

I think MikeD can get this group respectable and then in time remake the roster. Evolution. gotta start somewhere.

I'm not debating about petty regular season games that involve the Suns versus the T'Wolves. Even Isiah's pathetic Knicks competed against the lower echelon teams. I'm debating what the Suns did against premier teams in the league during the playoffs when it matters most, and what they did exactly was fail, quite miserably if you ask me.

So the record you should be concerned is about 0-4, and clearly not 58-24. That's 4 chances the Suns had to win a championship with a Steve Nash, Stoudamire, and Marion in their primes. D'antoni couldn't get the job done with those guys ? Can you even confidently give me one reason why you think his hiring is an automatic success ? What does it guarantee to you basketball wise ? Because we know it already guarantees sell outs.

Please stop, you're making way too much sense.

Oh please, winning a championship is very elusive. You cannot judge a coach soley on championships. The Suns didn't bow out in the playoffs to inferior teams, they lost to the Spurs who went on to beat everyone in the league. If you are going to judge D'Antoni by rings alone, then how do now judge the defensive guru Van Gundy? His defensive genius couldn't even get the Rockets out of the first round?

[Edited by - uptown on 06-19-2008 9:04 PM]

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Uptown:

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by franco12:

Isles- did you watch any phoenix games last year?

They were able to play a swarming defensive style.

Yes, they didn't foul- but they avoided needless fouls and part of their defensive strategy was to lull opponents into playing up tempo basketball- still, you encourage your opponent to take a bad shot -

Really ? Swarming defensive style ? You swear ?

Phoenix gave up nearly 103 PPG last year, 8th highest in the league. You didn't even need to watch the Suns play "their" defense, because it never showed up, besides a Stoudamire block here and there on a sloppy and broken possession. Do you even realize what you just said ? They gave up more points per game than the New York Knicks, take a deep breath and put that into perspective.

How do some of you constantly defend this franchise's move after move when in reality you know what the likely outcome will be ? If you are happy the Knicks landed D'antoni for entertainment and marketability (like the money is coming to you anyways) purposes, more power to you. But don't sit there and boast about how great D'antoni is at getting his players to play swarming D, thats a flat out lie.

more possesions = more points. I will ask you the same questions I asked Isles. They were 12th in the league in opposing FG%, 10th in the league in opponents FT attempts and 4th in the league in defensive rebounding differential. These are not suffocating stats, but the Suns played defense and we an above average defensive team. If the Suns were so pourous why didnt opponents shoot better? Why didnt they go to the line more? And why couldnt they get more offensive rebounds?

Simple questions...

More possessions, more points. Until you face San Antonio in the 2nd round and get eliminated after a hunky dory "defense" got you there. I don't recall Phoenix winning a championship, do you ? So somewhere along the line, D'antoni's cute schoolyard offense and defense wasn't as effective as you all think, am I wrong there ?

I'm not going to argue over numbers. The proof is in the pudding. Do you even have any idea why Cleveland and San Antonio went to the finals last year ? Start with doing some research. I'll give you a hint, it starts with the letter "D". Both the Spurs and Cavs finished #1 and #4 in opponent's PPG.

[Edited by - jrzyhustla on 06-19-2008 7:57 PM]

As Nalod pointed out, D'Antoni has won on average, 58 games per over the last 4 seasons. He has bowed out of the playoffs to the Spurs, who went on to win the 'chip' twice. Not to mention, the defenselss Suns should have advanced to the finals last year if not for Horry's goonish play.

Cleveland advanced to the finals because they were in the JV league and they spanked like a JV team in the finals against a team that the Suns should have beaten.

The Suns also lost to the Mavs. A Mavs team who found a way to get past those very same Invincible Spurs.

A Suns team that overachieved all year with a 6'7 Diaw at center and still managed to win the pacific and advance to the western conference finals without Stoudamire.

Posted by Uptown:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Uptown:

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by franco12:

Isles- did you watch any phoenix games last year?

They were able to play a swarming defensive style.

Yes, they didn't foul- but they avoided needless fouls and part of their defensive strategy was to lull opponents into playing up tempo basketball- still, you encourage your opponent to take a bad shot -

Really ? Swarming defensive style ? You swear ?

Phoenix gave up nearly 103 PPG last year, 8th highest in the league. You didn't even need to watch the Suns play "their" defense, because it never showed up, besides a Stoudamire block here and there on a sloppy and broken possession. Do you even realize what you just said ? They gave up more points per game than the New York Knicks, take a deep breath and put that into perspective.

How do some of you constantly defend this franchise's move after move when in reality you know what the likely outcome will be ? If you are happy the Knicks landed D'antoni for entertainment and marketability (like the money is coming to you anyways) purposes, more power to you. But don't sit there and boast about how great D'antoni is at getting his players to play swarming D, thats a flat out lie.

more possesions = more points. I will ask you the same questions I asked Isles. They were 12th in the league in opposing FG%, 10th in the league in opponents FT attempts and 4th in the league in defensive rebounding differential. These are not suffocating stats, but the Suns played defense and we an above average defensive team. If the Suns were so pourous why didnt opponents shoot better? Why didnt they go to the line more? And why couldnt they get more offensive rebounds?

Simple questions...

More possessions, more points. Until you face San Antonio in the 2nd round and get eliminated after a hunky dory "defense" got you there. I don't recall Phoenix winning a championship, do you ? So somewhere along the line, D'antoni's cute schoolyard offense and defense wasn't as effective as you all think, am I wrong there ?

I'm not going to argue over numbers. The proof is in the pudding. Do you even have any idea why Cleveland and San Antonio went to the finals last year ? Start with doing some research. I'll give you a hint, it starts with the letter "D". Both the Spurs and Cavs finished #1 and #4 in opponent's PPG.

[Edited by - jrzyhustla on 06-19-2008 7:57 PM]

As Nalod pointed out, D'Antoni has won on average, 58 games per over the last 4 seasons. He has bowed out of the playoffs to the Spurs, who went on to win the 'chip' twice. Not to mention, the defenselss Suns should have advanced to the finals last year if not for Horry's goonish play.

Cleveland advanced to the finals because they were in the JV league and they spanked like a JV team in the finals against a team that the Suns should have beaten.

The Suns also lost to the Mavs. A Mavs team who found a way to get past those very same Invincible Spurs.

A Suns team that overachieved all year with a 6'7 Diaw at center and still managed to win the pacific and advance to the western conference finals without Stoudamire.

But once again failed to accomplish the goal. What do you get out of ignoring the fact that D'antoni lost with 3 great players because his system was defective ?

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by Uptown:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Uptown:

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by franco12:

Isles- did you watch any phoenix games last year?

They were able to play a swarming defensive style.

Yes, they didn't foul- but they avoided needless fouls and part of their defensive strategy was to lull opponents into playing up tempo basketball- still, you encourage your opponent to take a bad shot -

Really ? Swarming defensive style ? You swear ?

Phoenix gave up nearly 103 PPG last year, 8th highest in the league. You didn't even need to watch the Suns play "their" defense, because it never showed up, besides a Stoudamire block here and there on a sloppy and broken possession. Do you even realize what you just said ? They gave up more points per game than the New York Knicks, take a deep breath and put that into perspective.

How do some of you constantly defend this franchise's move after move when in reality you know what the likely outcome will be ? If you are happy the Knicks landed D'antoni for entertainment and marketability (like the money is coming to you anyways) purposes, more power to you. But don't sit there and boast about how great D'antoni is at getting his players to play swarming D, thats a flat out lie.

more possesions = more points. I will ask you the same questions I asked Isles. They were 12th in the league in opposing FG%, 10th in the league in opponents FT attempts and 4th in the league in defensive rebounding differential. These are not suffocating stats, but the Suns played defense and we an above average defensive team. If the Suns were so pourous why didnt opponents shoot better? Why didnt they go to the line more? And why couldnt they get more offensive rebounds?

Simple questions...

More possessions, more points. Until you face San Antonio in the 2nd round and get eliminated after a hunky dory "defense" got you there. I don't recall Phoenix winning a championship, do you ? So somewhere along the line, D'antoni's cute schoolyard offense and defense wasn't as effective as you all think, am I wrong there ?

I'm not going to argue over numbers. The proof is in the pudding. Do you even have any idea why Cleveland and San Antonio went to the finals last year ? Start with doing some research. I'll give you a hint, it starts with the letter "D". Both the Spurs and Cavs finished #1 and #4 in opponent's PPG.

[Edited by - jrzyhustla on 06-19-2008 7:57 PM]

As Nalod pointed out, D'Antoni has won on average, 58 games per over the last 4 seasons. He has bowed out of the playoffs to the Spurs, who went on to win the 'chip' twice. Not to mention, the defenselss Suns should have advanced to the finals last year if not for Horry's goonish play.

Cleveland advanced to the finals because they were in the JV league and they spanked like a JV team in the finals against a team that the Suns should have beaten.

The Suns also lost to the Mavs. A Mavs team who found a way to get past those very same Invincible Spurs.

A Suns team that overachieved all year with a 6'7 Diaw at center and still managed to win the pacific and advance to the western conference finals without Stoudamire.

But once again failed to accomplish the goal. What do you get out of ignoring the fact that D'antoni lost with 3 great players because his system was defective ?

30 teams set out to accomplish the same goal each year. Only one team wins. Everything has to break right to win the 'chip'. To base D'Antoni's sucess strictly on winning a championship isn't fair. How about D'Antoni lost to the better team and eventual champion as opposed to saying his system was defective. If thats the case, 29 teams have defective systems each year.

And if you are basing everything on championships, who would you have liked the Knicks to hire? Only Pop, Phil, LB and Riley have won over the last 7-8 years.

Posted by Uptown:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Uptown:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by Nalod:

I think the suns have avged 58 wins a season for the last 4 years.

So on average, that means there defense did not get it done 24 times a season.

I think if you outscore the other team more than not, you win.

Im not a smart man, but seems to me the guy wins. I think suns got hosed last year but thats just my opinion.

Thibs is abstract. Maybe he will be the greatest head coach, but not with this group.

I think MikeD can get this group respectable and then in time remake the roster. Evolution. gotta start somewhere.

I'm not debating about petty regular season games that involve the Suns versus the T'Wolves. Even Isiah's pathetic Knicks competed against the lower echelon teams. I'm debating what the Suns did against premier teams in the league during the playoffs when it matters most, and what they did exactly was fail, quite miserably if you ask me.

So the record you should be concerned is about 0-4, and clearly not 58-24. That's 4 chances the Suns had to win a championship with a Steve Nash, Stoudamire, and Marion in their primes. D'antoni couldn't get the job done with those guys ? Can you even confidently give me one reason why you think his hiring is an automatic success ? What does it guarantee to you basketball wise ? Because we know it already guarantees sell outs.

Please stop, you're making way too much sense.

Oh please, winning a championship is very elusive. You cannot judge a coach soley on championships. The Suns didn't bow out in the playoffs to inferior teams, they lost to the Spurs who went on to beat everyone in the league. If you are going to judge D'Antoni by rings alone, then how do now judge the defensive guru Van Gundy? His defensive genius couldn't even get the Rockets out of the first round?

[Edited by - uptown on 06-19-2008 9:04 PM]

I believe VG made it to the Finals. And without the league MVP.

JrZy's stressed championships...not second place finishes and runner ups.

So why did you bring up the first round?