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Here is a trade that makes the Knicks better
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TrueBlue
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6/18/2008  3:14 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by bitty41:
In 2003 he traded away Antoine Walker who was a huge piece to a playoff team that went to the ECF the yr prior to him becoming GM

In 2004-2005 season Danny offered Tony Allen, Their 2005 first round pick, and I believe Raef to the NOH for Baron Davis. The deal was taken off the table in the we hours because of uncertainty from Baron and the Warriors side on his knee

In 2005 summer Danny offered Portland Paul Pierce, their first rounder, and another player I believe Perkins for the #3 pick in the draft. Portland agreed Paul Pierce didn't and killed the trade. Portland sent their 3 pick to Utah. Danny was going to draft Chris Paul. Go ask Boston fans about this

In 2006 he inquired to Mchale about Kevin Garnett and had a preliminary discussions about K.G. The same yr Danny contacted Phx to start a Pierce/Marion deal.

In 2006 he traded away the 7th pick for essentially what I feel was for the 21rst pick in Rajon Rondo to dump Raef's deal and get back Telfair and Ratliff

In 2007 summer he attempted trading for Allen Iverson, Shawn Marion, and Jermain O'neal and all deals fell through.

And you heard all this wealth of information from whom again? Reality check time: just because you spend 24/7 on the internet reading about sports does not make you an insider sorry to burst that bubble. Furthermore this is about deals accomplished NOT rumored moves. I'm not denying that he attempted to make some moves but for the most part his moves consisted of getting draft picks hoping for a superstar to rise out out the ashes. After that Walker was traded the team was full of scrubs mostly young scrubs but scrubs nonetheless.


First of all of them are facts and 2 of the 6 cited references were actual transactions that took place. I couldn't make them up if I wanted to but for you Princess I'll give a little teaser on one of the other cold hard facts of Ainge's aggresiveness...

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/06/05/moment_of_truth/?page=5
The Celtics tried to trade Pierce for Chris Paul the night of the 2005 NBA draft, but could not close the deal.

"I just had to go home and grow up," acknowledged Pierce. "It was a difficult situation. It was time to grow up, stop pouting, go out there and help these young guys out and things will work out. And that was my mind-set after the first year with Doc. So that was my attitude after that and I think that helped out my relationship with Doc and them wanting to keep me around because they saw the change in my attitude. Trying to get better as a Celtic regardless of the losing that was going on here."

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketb..._green/?page=2(must be registered to view link to boston.com)
The Boston Celtics very nearly dealt Paul Pierce to the Portland TrailBlazers in 2005 in exchange for the number three overall pick. Several other players would have been included in order to make it work financially.

"We were pretty close," Danny Ainge said.

Ainge likely would have selected point guard Deron Williams.


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-18-2008 1:15 PM]



this is about deals accomplished NOT rumored moves Hopefully we understand each other better now.


This wasn't rumored and sorry to break it to you bitty but a GM who offers up trades even though they aren't consummated qualifies the GM as being aggressive, especially when they involve the best player(s) of the franchise.

You could liken it to a player on the basketball court who makes strong moves going to the basket and plays man up defense just because the player doesn't score a basket, get the steal, or block the shot doesn't mean the player isn't being aggressive.

Sorry Danny Ainge was about as aggressive as they come the past 5yrs.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-18-2008 2:15 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
AUTOADVERT
bitty41
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6/18/2008  3:29 PM
Trueblue,

I know we could spend hours aruging over the semantics of "rumored vs legitiment offers" and I'm sure you've saved a 1000 articles on your computer regarding the topic. But the fact remains (pre-last summer) after ECF team of Pierce and Walker was disbanded Ainge was able to accomplish zlich in terms of returning this franchise into a legitimate playoff team. Simple enough to understand he may have tried to acquire every all-star in the league but he failed until he pulled off probably the biggest off-season moves ever.


TrueBlue
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6/18/2008  3:40 PM
Posted by bitty41:

Trueblue,

I know we could spend hours aruging over the semantics of "rumored vs legitiment offers" and I'm sure you've saved a 1000 articles on your computer regarding the topic. But the fact remains (pre-last summer) after ECF team of Pierce and Walker was disbanded Ainge was able to accomplish zlich in terms of returning this franchise into a legitimate playoff team. Simple enough to understand he may have tried to acquire every all-star in the league but he failed until he pulled off probably the biggest off-season moves ever.

They went to the playoffs in 2003-2004 and in 2004-2005 missed 2005-2006(this was the season he really started going young and rebuilding missed 2006-2007(team suffered a ton of major injuries) and won it all 2007-2008. He collected the assets to get the mission accomplished and was ready to strike almost every yr in between.

I really don't get your point other than being frustrated that his plan worked because he actually was an aggressive GM.

LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
SlimPack
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6/18/2008  3:45 PM
I would think that Mike D had a pretty good amount of input into what personnel changes went on in Phoenix up until Steve Kerr was hired. (When that happened you could tell that the organization started heading in a different direction). Mike as GM probably couldn't do all the things he wanted though, because it's well known that Suns owner Rob Sarver cares more about not paying a lot of money than he does about winning a championship or producing a competitive team.

Still, I think the roster was for the most part the way Mike wanted it. I remember him saying that seven seconds or less ball is the way he likes to play, and that he believes you can win a championship that way despite popular belief.

http://www.insidehoops.com/dantoni-interview-060106.shtml
Q. On the reputation of his team’s style:

COACH MIKE D'ANTONI: I think we have a confidence that if we are on our A-game that nobody can beat us. I really believe that. You know it’s funny. You can talk about other teams being really good defensively, but when they play against us we score 110 points. Everybody says, ‘well that’s because you’re so good offensively’. Well, that counts. We don’t think any good defensive team can stop us and if they can’t stop us we’re winning. We have that confidence. Now, whether that’s completely true—that’s our thinking. I understand the flip-side of it.

Q. On how championship teams impose their defensive will:

COACH MIKE D'ANTONI: Well, we will impose our will, it’s just on the other side of the floor. There are two ends of the floor and we’re doing it on the other end. We think we can play good enough defense. We can play better defense against you than you can play against us because of our offense—if that makes sense. Now that’s what we think and that’s the mentality that we can win with.

A lot of people say that Mike D is a contrarian. Just because people say you can't win it all that way, to him doesn't mean it's true, and he'll probably try to prove that here.

http://coachtoddsimon.blogspot.com/2008/05/mike-dantoni-great-contrarian.html
“There was the debate that we couldn’t do what we did in Phoenix, it wouldn’t last half a season,” he said. “Then when it lasted half a season, then, ‘You can’t do it all year.’ Then we did it all year. And then, ‘You can’t win in the playoffs.’ Well, we get to the conference finals two years. ‘Well, you can’t win the championship.’ And they’re right so far. It finally got to the point where they’re right.”

Walsh will most likely support him in that, since Walsh strikes me as the kind of GM who supports his coach, and doesn't clash with him. He even let Isiah handle the drafting while he was the coach at Indiana. (that sort of show of support is probably how Walsh convinced Mike to come here over the Bulls in the first place)

He did, however say that he can adjust to some degree to fit the roster (Although, I'm not sure to how great of a degree that will turn out to be), but he always said that he wants to play as close as possible to the way he did in his first 2 years in phoenix.

http://www.greenwichtime.com/knicks/ci_9244811
"I will adapt what I do. Now I like to play fast, move the ball and all that stuff, and we'll try to do that as best as we can," D'Antoni said Tuesday. "Obviously you're going to be a little slower than (the Suns), but at the same time there's no reason why you can't run, be exciting and have good ball movement."

To sum things up, I don't think it's very prudent to expect Mike to change the way he coaches very much when starts to coach here. He likes the style of play he coached in Phoenix, and believes you can even win a championship using it, despite everyone and their grandmother saying otherwise.


Wait a minute. I just realized that this thready originally had nothing to do with D'antoni. I Don't know how it turned into being about him. This thread was supposed to be about a propose draft day trade.
SlimPack
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6/18/2008  3:47 PM
Posted by fishmike:

also getting rid of Q to add Kurt Thomas?

Seems like since he got there most of the moves were geared towards getting bigger and better defensivly

Yeah, but he wasn't the GM at that point. Also, that move probably had more to do with financial commitment, and Q's back showing signs of problems.
islesfan
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6/18/2008  3:55 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

He had a huge amount of input in putting the personnel together and by the time he officially became the GM, he didn't feel a need to change much if anything. That's the only conclusion that you can draw because if he wasn't happy with the makeup of the team, he had every opportunity to change what he didn't like or address whatever need he thought they needed to and didn't do anything.

If this is the case, he was well aware that Marbury and Penny needed to go, had a heavy hand in signing Nash and turning him into a MVP, helped coach Amare into more than an athletic player, helped pursue Raja Bell the defensive specialist who tag-teamed Kobe over and over, helped get Boris and turn him around, got Grant Hill to sign for nothing, wanted the D of Kurt Thomas and Bryan Grant.
The fact that acquiring Banks and letting him rot on the bench is your best argument speaks volumes and what D'Antonio felt about the importance of team defense.

So, it goes to show that D'Antonio DOES care about defense ala the Banks signing?

Everybody knew that Marbury and Penny had to go, especially if their sights were set on Nash. Heavy hand in signing Nash? I wouldn't put it that strongly. But they were implementing his System and were lucky enough to acquire the player best suited for it. What did he do for Amare again? He was always an athletic force on offense and could always block shots but was never used well in the overall team defense. D'Antonio completely misused and neglected him on the defensive side. Bell came in as a defensive player and became more of an offensive player at the expense of his defense under D'Antonio. Turned around Boris into what? Certainly not a defensive minded player. Hill was willing to sign cheap for a shot at a title. Failed miserably as have all D'Antonio teams. D'Antonio also quickly got rid of Thomas and Grant.

Signing Banks didn't show that D'Antonio cares about defense, it shows that he was only into window dressing and half hearted attempts at getting his team to play any.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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6/18/2008  3:58 PM
Posted by SlimPack:

I would think that Mike D had a pretty good amount of input into what personnel changes went on in Phoenix up until Steve Kerr was hired. (When that happened you could tell that the organization started heading in a different direction). Mike as GM probably couldn't do all the things he wanted though, because it's well known that Suns owner Rob Sarver cares more about not paying a lot of money than he does about winning a championship or producing a competitive team.

Still, I think the roster was for the most part the way Mike wanted it. I remember him saying that seven seconds or less ball is the way he likes to play, and that he believes you can win a championship that way despite popular belief.

http://www.insidehoops.com/dantoni-interview-060106.shtml
Q. On the reputation of his team’s style:

COACH MIKE D'ANTONI: I think we have a confidence that if we are on our A-game that nobody can beat us. I really believe that. You know it’s funny. You can talk about other teams being really good defensively, but when they play against us we score 110 points. Everybody says, ‘well that’s because you’re so good offensively’. Well, that counts. We don’t think any good defensive team can stop us and if they can’t stop us we’re winning. We have that confidence. Now, whether that’s completely true—that’s our thinking. I understand the flip-side of it.

Q. On how championship teams impose their defensive will:

COACH MIKE D'ANTONI: Well, we will impose our will, it’s just on the other side of the floor. There are two ends of the floor and we’re doing it on the other end. We think we can play good enough defense. We can play better defense against you than you can play against us because of our offense—if that makes sense. Now that’s what we think and that’s the mentality that we can win with.

A lot of people say that Mike D is a contrarian. Just because people say you can't win it all that way, to him doesn't mean it's true, and he'll probably try to prove that here.

http://coachtoddsimon.blogspot.com/2008/05/mike-dantoni-great-contrarian.html
“There was the debate that we couldn’t do what we did in Phoenix, it wouldn’t last half a season,” he said. “Then when it lasted half a season, then, ‘You can’t do it all year.’ Then we did it all year. And then, ‘You can’t win in the playoffs.’ Well, we get to the conference finals two years. ‘Well, you can’t win the championship.’ And they’re right so far. It finally got to the point where they’re right.”

Walsh will most likely support him in that, since Walsh strikes me as the kind of GM who supports his coach, and doesn't clash with him. He even let Isiah handle the drafting while he was the coach at Indiana. (that sort of show of support is probably how Walsh convinced Mike to come here over the Bulls in the first place)

He did, however say that he can adjust to some degree to fit the roster (Although, I'm not sure to how great of a degree that will turn out to be), but he always said that he wants to play as close as possible to the way he did in his first 2 years in phoenix.

http://www.greenwichtime.com/knicks/ci_9244811
"I will adapt what I do. Now I like to play fast, move the ball and all that stuff, and we'll try to do that as best as we can," D'Antoni said Tuesday. "Obviously you're going to be a little slower than (the Suns), but at the same time there's no reason why you can't run, be exciting and have good ball movement."

To sum things up, I don't think it's very prudent to expect Mike to change the way he coaches very much when starts to coach here. He likes the style of play he coached in Phoenix, and believes you can even win a championship using it, despite everyone and their grandmother saying otherwise.


Wait a minute. I just realized that this thready originally had nothing to do with D'antoni. I Don't know how it turned into being about him. This thread was supposed to be about a propose draft day trade.

Awesome post Slim.

Don't ask anybody else, take D'Antonio's words on it.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
newyorknewyork
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6/18/2008  4:05 PM
Im sure D'Antoni wasn't a big fan of trading away Joe Johnson for draft picks and Boris Diaw. Imagine if they would have kept him.

If all D'Antoni does is make this team a playoff contender but not a championship contender then he did his job. We can worry about championships when we become a playoff contender first.

Looking at our situation with all the low value players with bad contracts. Getting a guy to get the most out of them for the next 3 yrs while Walsh overturns the roster is fine. After our players values are better whoever the players on the team are, and after the cap is respectable and flexable then we can focus on making a championship run. If D'Antoni doesn't like the changes that Walsh would then want to make then he will let D'Antoni walk and get a new guy who he believes will take the team to the next level.
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Vmart
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6/18/2008  4:08 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by SlimPack:

I would think that Mike D had a pretty good amount of input into what personnel changes went on in Phoenix up until Steve Kerr was hired. (When that happened you could tell that the organization started heading in a different direction). Mike as GM probably couldn't do all the things he wanted though, because it's well known that Suns owner Rob Sarver cares more about not paying a lot of money than he does about winning a championship or producing a competitive team.

Still, I think the roster was for the most part the way Mike wanted it. I remember him saying that seven seconds or less ball is the way he likes to play, and that he believes you can win a championship that way despite popular belief.

http://www.insidehoops.com/dantoni-interview-060106.shtml
Q. On the reputation of his team’s style:

COACH MIKE D'ANTONI: I think we have a confidence that if we are on our A-game that nobody can beat us. I really believe that. You know it’s funny. You can talk about other teams being really good defensively, but when they play against us we score 110 points. Everybody says, ‘well that’s because you’re so good offensively’. Well, that counts. We don’t think any good defensive team can stop us and if they can’t stop us we’re winning. We have that confidence. Now, whether that’s completely true—that’s our thinking. I understand the flip-side of it.

Q. On how championship teams impose their defensive will:

COACH MIKE D'ANTONI: Well, we will impose our will, it’s just on the other side of the floor. There are two ends of the floor and we’re doing it on the other end. We think we can play good enough defense. We can play better defense against you than you can play against us because of our offense—if that makes sense. Now that’s what we think and that’s the mentality that we can win with.

A lot of people say that Mike D is a contrarian. Just because people say you can't win it all that way, to him doesn't mean it's true, and he'll probably try to prove that here.

http://coachtoddsimon.blogspot.com/2008/05/mike-dantoni-great-contrarian.html
“There was the debate that we couldn’t do what we did in Phoenix, it wouldn’t last half a season,” he said. “Then when it lasted half a season, then, ‘You can’t do it all year.’ Then we did it all year. And then, ‘You can’t win in the playoffs.’ Well, we get to the conference finals two years. ‘Well, you can’t win the championship.’ And they’re right so far. It finally got to the point where they’re right.”

Walsh will most likely support him in that, since Walsh strikes me as the kind of GM who supports his coach, and doesn't clash with him. He even let Isiah handle the drafting while he was the coach at Indiana. (that sort of show of support is probably how Walsh convinced Mike to come here over the Bulls in the first place)

He did, however say that he can adjust to some degree to fit the roster (Although, I'm not sure to how great of a degree that will turn out to be), but he always said that he wants to play as close as possible to the way he did in his first 2 years in phoenix.

http://www.greenwichtime.com/knicks/ci_9244811
"I will adapt what I do. Now I like to play fast, move the ball and all that stuff, and we'll try to do that as best as we can," D'Antoni said Tuesday. "Obviously you're going to be a little slower than (the Suns), but at the same time there's no reason why you can't run, be exciting and have good ball movement."

To sum things up, I don't think it's very prudent to expect Mike to change the way he coaches very much when starts to coach here. He likes the style of play he coached in Phoenix, and believes you can even win a championship using it, despite everyone and their grandmother saying otherwise.


Wait a minute. I just realized that this thready originally had nothing to do with D'antoni. I Don't know how it turned into being about him. This thread was supposed to be about a propose draft day trade.

Awesome post Slim.

Don't ask anybody else, take D'Antonio's words on it.

Isles you sound like a guy trying to win this coming year and not rebuild. Defense is tought and its an effort thing players need to buy into the system. celtic bought into it and won but it helped to have players like Garnett to set the tone for defense. The Knicks don't have one SOB who sets the tone on the defensive side. Amare is and did play defense well until his microfracture surgery then he became a fan of matadore defense. I know you don't give D'Antoni any credit and you shouldn't because he hasn't proven he can win with the Knicks. Hell Larry Brown proved he couldn't win with the Knicks and Wilkins can be put into tha category too.


Lets see howthis plays out and lets see where this goes. As far as defense goes well just do what Boston did get a good defensive assistant coach. I think Dick Harter if he is still around would be good for the Knicks.
newyorknewyork
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6/18/2008  4:08 PM
Is there anybody on this board that wouldn't want to be in Pheniox situation the last 4yrs and going forward?

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
Vmart
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6/18/2008  4:22 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Is there anybody on this board that wouldn't want to be in Pheniox situation the last 4yrs and going forward?

Or Detroit for that matter. Just get me in the playoffs with a chance to win it all.

islesfan
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6/18/2008  4:33 PM
Posted by Vmart:


Isles you sound like a guy trying to win this coming year and not rebuild. Defense is tought and its an effort thing players need to buy into the system. celtic bought into it and won but it helped to have players like Garnett to set the tone for defense. The Knicks don't have one SOB who sets the tone on the defensive side. Amare is and did play defense well until his microfracture surgery then he became a fan of matadore defense. I know you don't give D'Antoni any credit and you shouldn't because he hasn't proven he can win with the Knicks. Hell Larry Brown proved he couldn't win with the Knicks and Wilkins can be put into tha category too.

Lets see howthis plays out and lets see where this goes. As far as defense goes well just do what Boston did get a good defensive assistant coach. I think Dick Harter if he is still around would be good for the Knicks.

Not at all. I want to lose as much as possible next year in order to maximize our draft pick next year. I want to dump as many bad contracts and dead weight as possible and I'm not afraid to use assets to do that. I want to collect draft picks using players who are going to be looking for larger contracts than they're worth (Lee and Nate). I want to try to get as far under the cap sooner rather than later. I want a head coach whose philosophy includes an insistence on teaching and playing solid team defense.

D'Antonio will never let an assistant coach come in and implement a defensive system like the one that Doc and Thibodeau did. Going by his own words, he's only concerned with outscoring his opponent. A defensive system like that will only take away from his offensive system. You're not going to get a team to man up on defense, go shoot under 7 seconds and then go back and man up on defense again. That's insane.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Vmart
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6/18/2008  4:59 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Vmart:


Isles you sound like a guy trying to win this coming year and not rebuild. Defense is tought and its an effort thing players need to buy into the system. celtic bought into it and won but it helped to have players like Garnett to set the tone for defense. The Knicks don't have one SOB who sets the tone on the defensive side. Amare is and did play defense well until his microfracture surgery then he became a fan of matadore defense. I know you don't give D'Antoni any credit and you shouldn't because he hasn't proven he can win with the Knicks. Hell Larry Brown proved he couldn't win with the Knicks and Wilkins can be put into tha category too.

Lets see howthis plays out and lets see where this goes. As far as defense goes well just do what Boston did get a good defensive assistant coach. I think Dick Harter if he is still around would be good for the Knicks.

Not at all. I want to lose as much as possible next year in order to maximize our draft pick next year. I want to dump as many bad contracts and dead weight as possible and I'm not afraid to use assets to do that. I want to collect draft picks using players who are going to be looking for larger contracts than they're worth (Lee and Nate). I want to try to get as far under the cap sooner rather than later. I want a head coach whose philosophy includes an insistence on teaching and playing solid team defense.

D'Antonio will never let an assistant coach come in and implement a defensive system like the one that Doc and Thibodeau did. Going by his own words, he's only concerned with outscoring his opponent. A defensive system like that will only take away from his offensive system. You're not going to get a team to man up on defense, go shoot under 7 seconds and then go back and man up on defense again. That's insane.

Well we don't know that for sure. I do have faith in D'Antoni to be more than just run and gun. He will do fine with defense you will see it in the teams play come this year. To me the most important stat is the point differntial I think that say it all for defense. D'Antoni always had the Suns high in that category where they were one of the top teams in point differential. As for getting rid of these contracts that burden the team I think we all want that. But smart moves have to be made. Draft picks need to pan out and they need time on the court to develop. As for the win now mentality I think all coaches have that until the team does poorly enough then they start to tank. The Knicks will have a good draft pick next year in the process hopefully they can increase the value of the dead weight and turn them into picks or better young talent.

bitty41
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6/18/2008  5:06 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by bitty41:

Trueblue,

I know we could spend hours aruging over the semantics of "rumored vs legitiment offers" and I'm sure you've saved a 1000 articles on your computer regarding the topic. But the fact remains (pre-last summer) after ECF team of Pierce and Walker was disbanded Ainge was able to accomplish zlich in terms of returning this franchise into a legitimate playoff team. Simple enough to understand he may have tried to acquire every all-star in the league but he failed until he pulled off probably the biggest off-season moves ever.

They went to the playoffs in 2003-2004 and in 2004-2005 missed 2005-2006(this was the season he really started going young and rebuilding missed 2006-2007(team suffered a ton of major injuries) and won it all 2007-2008. He collected the assets to get the mission accomplished and was ready to strike almost every yr in between.

I really don't get your point other than being frustrated that his plan worked because he actually was an aggressive GM.



Look before we go into a 15 pages about whether Danny Ainge was aggressively pursuing to rebuild Boston how about this: Aggressive GMs (i.e. SA, Detroit, to lesser extent Dallas/Phoenix) get results. They see 50 win plus seasons and are on the short list for Championship contenders.

Non-aggressive GMs (i.e. Mil, Charlotte, Atlanta) best case scenario make it to first round and get bounced. Sometimes they get lucky and get good talent but in the end its irrelevant because the teams continue to suck due to the failure of the GM of ever building a solid team. Meaning players 1 through 5 not just one or two really talented young players.

islesfan
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6/18/2008  5:22 PM
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Vmart:


Isles you sound like a guy trying to win this coming year and not rebuild. Defense is tought and its an effort thing players need to buy into the system. celtic bought into it and won but it helped to have players like Garnett to set the tone for defense. The Knicks don't have one SOB who sets the tone on the defensive side. Amare is and did play defense well until his microfracture surgery then he became a fan of matadore defense. I know you don't give D'Antoni any credit and you shouldn't because he hasn't proven he can win with the Knicks. Hell Larry Brown proved he couldn't win with the Knicks and Wilkins can be put into tha category too.

Lets see howthis plays out and lets see where this goes. As far as defense goes well just do what Boston did get a good defensive assistant coach. I think Dick Harter if he is still around would be good for the Knicks.

Not at all. I want to lose as much as possible next year in order to maximize our draft pick next year. I want to dump as many bad contracts and dead weight as possible and I'm not afraid to use assets to do that. I want to collect draft picks using players who are going to be looking for larger contracts than they're worth (Lee and Nate). I want to try to get as far under the cap sooner rather than later. I want a head coach whose philosophy includes an insistence on teaching and playing solid team defense.

D'Antonio will never let an assistant coach come in and implement a defensive system like the one that Doc and Thibodeau did. Going by his own words, he's only concerned with outscoring his opponent. A defensive system like that will only take away from his offensive system. You're not going to get a team to man up on defense, go shoot under 7 seconds and then go back and man up on defense again. That's insane.

Well we don't know that for sure. I do have faith in D'Antoni to be more than just run and gun. He will do fine with defense you will see it in the teams play come this year. To me the most important stat is the point differntial I think that say it all for defense. D'Antoni always had the Suns high in that category where they were one of the top teams in point differential. As for getting rid of these contracts that burden the team I think we all want that. But smart moves have to be made. Draft picks need to pan out and they need time on the court to develop. As for the win now mentality I think all coaches have that until the team does poorly enough then they start to tank. The Knicks will have a good draft pick next year in the process hopefully they can increase the value of the dead weight and turn them into picks or better young talent.

I'm not sure why you think he'll do fine with defense. D'Antonio always pointed to point differential to explain away his team's lack of defense. That's great when you have Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion running your System and can fatten up on the weaker teams who are stupid enough to try to run with them and don't play good enough defense. Against good teams, point differential isn't that great and you need to play solid defense. That's why D'Antonio's Suns always came up short.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
Posts: 60684
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USA
6/18/2008  6:34 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by TMS:

we won't be in any position of strength til 2011... call it assinine or whatever else, but it's reality nonetheless... u can call cap flexibility retarded, moronic or whatever other derogatory terms you wanna throw in there, but the only moronic thing i've seen around here is this team continuing to make roster moves w/no thought to the longterm ramifications on the cap over the past decade... judging from Walsh's quoted mission statement since he got here seems to me he's of the same mind frame... but hey, what the hell does Walsh know about building successful NBA franchises.
how much cap space did Boston have last season?

how many former knicks are gms on other teams and will trade us a superstar for next to nothing?

what boston did isn't a blueprint to build a champion.

fish, i already told u i would be open to taking on any longterm salary for a player of KG's calibre... until you can provide me some options that match up i'll hold to my belief that it's a moronic move to trade for guys like Michael Redd, Baron Davis or any other 2nd & 3rd tier guys like that & completely screw our longterm cap flexibility even further unless we can get a top tier talent like KG in the fold.

you keep downgrading the notion of cap flexibility, why is it then that someone who probably knows more about building successful NBA franchises than everyone posting on these forums put together is the one who's making it 1 of his main focuses that need to be addressed? you think Donnie's just throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks the way Isiah was doing? he's got a plan & my guess is that 2010 is playing a HUGE part in those plans.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TrueBlue
Posts: 29144
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6/18/2008  8:41 PM
Slim your find was not surprising but disturbing and full of enrichment. Thanks a lot for the legwork.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Here is a trade that makes the Knicks better

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