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Silverfuel
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6/4/2008  7:54 PM
Posted by izybx:
Posted by Silverfuel:

and izybx, I didn't call anyone stupid so stop making stuff up.

Your right, you didnt call anybody stupid. You said "badly misinformed", which is a nice (sorta) way to call someone stupid.
No its not. I'm don't want to get into a semantic discussion with you but being misinformed, is being misinformed and being stupid is being stupid.
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izybx
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6/4/2008  7:55 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by izybx:

Liberals= enlightened
Conservatives= misinformed

Hey your more then welcome to bring any facts to the table instead of McCain's campaign talking points.

Facts? The fact that Im conservative is proof enough that Mccain is the best candidate for me and the America that I envision. I mean we're not debating two candidates with similar ideas. Im a pro-life, pro-Iraq, conservative who opposes gun control, high taxes, government handouts, etc. These are issues that are important to me. So the best candidate for me is Mccain. I dont see what points there are to make, or facts to debate. What I dont appreciate is when people like Silverfuel imply that because you are either conservative or liberal that youre stupid or uninformed. I mean is there any chance a liberal will vote for Mccain? Is there any chance that a conservative will vote for Obama? Not likely.

Its pretty interesting that a cop wouldn't be in favor of Gun Control. I think that says it all for me in terms of your thinking. Actually there are some Conservatives out there who plan to vote for Obama because that is truly how pissed they are at the Republican party.

http://www.amconmag.com/2008/2008_03_24/article.html
Social conservatives counting on McCain to return the nation to the path of righteousness are kidding themselves. Within this camp, abortion has long been the flagship issue. Yet only a naïf would believe that today’s Republican Party has any real interest in overturning Roe v. Wade or that doing so now would contribute in any meaningful way to the restoration of “family values.” GOP support for such values is akin to the Democratic Party’s professed devotion to the “working poor”: each is a ploy to get votes, trotted out seasonally, quickly forgotten once the polls close.

But this much we can say for certain: electing John McCain guarantees the perpetuation of war. The nation’s heedless march toward empire will continue. So, too, inevitably, will its embrace of Leviathan. Whether snoozing in front of their TVs or cheering on the troops, the American people will remain oblivious to the fate that awaits them.

For conservatives, Obama represents a sliver of hope. McCain represents none at all. The choice turns out to be an easy one.

This is just one guy and even though he considers himself a Conservative some of his thinking I agree with wholeheartedly. Because I do believe true "Conservatives" meaning ones that just don't fall the path of the Republican Party but do some actual independent thinking of their own realize how McCain offers very little to stem this tide of Corportocracy that has overrun the American Government.

I do believe in gun control, I probably should have been more specific. I think there are serious problems in southern states that provide the majority of guns that are seen on New York City streets. I dont like how I needed to pay almost $500 to register a $250 handgun in NYC. I dont like how people are penalized for trying to exercise their constitional rights. The problem are not with legal guns, but with illegal ones. All these savages killing each other are not shooting each other with handguns registered in their names.

In a nation of 300 million people Im sure that you can find some "conservatives" who say they will vote for Obama. But I think it speaks for itself that if you vote for a guy with his views than you arent a conservative at all.

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izybx
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6/4/2008  8:02 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by izybx:

What I dont appreciate is when people like Silverfuel imply that because you are either conservative or liberal that youre stupid or uninformed.
I didn't say you were misinformed because you are conservative, I said you are misinformed because you said stuff like
Mccain is for aggressive interrogations without resorting to torture.
Give me an example of your aggressive interrogations that don't qualify as torture. McCain didn't complain when Bush vetoed a bill outlawing waterboarding right?

Sleep deprivation, temperature fluctuation, sensory deprivation, etc are all tactics that I would say constitute aggressive interrogation without equaling torture.

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izybx
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6/4/2008  8:03 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by Silverfuel:

and izybx, I didn't call anyone stupid so stop making stuff up.

Your right, you didnt call anybody stupid. You said "badly misinformed", which is a nice (sorta) way to call someone stupid.
No its not. I'm don't want to get into a semantic discussion with you but being misinformed, is being misinformed and being stupid is being stupid.

As often happens I may have misinterpeted the tone of your post as being condescending and insulting. Sorry about that
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bitty41
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6/4/2008  8:15 PM
I'm not going get into a debate about Gun Control or that you logic is very flawed considering that you have a problem with southern states laws that make it easy to purchase guns but yet when NYC takes measures to prevent these easy purchases you have a problem with it. But whatever
In a nation of 300 million people Im sure that you can find some "conservatives" who say they will vote for Obama. But I think it speaks for itself that if you vote for a guy with his views than you arent a conservative at all.

You're clearly Conservative but you also don't seem to know all that the ideology encompasses. Are you aware that some of your views totally fly in the face of the Conservative ideology.
izybx
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6/4/2008  8:28 PM
Posted by bitty41:

I'm not going get into a debate about Gun Control or that you logic is very flawed considering that you have a problem with southern states laws that make it easy to purchase guns but yet when NYC takes measures to prevent these easy purchases you have a problem with it. But whatever
In a nation of 300 million people Im sure that you can find some "conservatives" who say they will vote for Obama. But I think it speaks for itself that if you vote for a guy with his views than you arent a conservative at all.

You're clearly Conservative but you also don't seem to know all that the ideology encompasses. Are you aware that some of your views totally fly in the face of the Conservative ideology.

Yes I am aware of that, which is why I am an Independant with Conservative views. And my logic is not flawed. Im sure you can recognize the difference between someone who can go to a gun shop down south and buy 20 handguns without registering them and going to NYC and having to pay 2X the value of a gun just to register it legally. Then again maybe you cant.

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bitty41
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6/4/2008  8:50 PM
Im sure you can recognize the difference between someone who can go to a gun shop down south and buy 20 handguns without registering them and going to NYC and having to pay 2X the value of a gun just to register it legally. Then again maybe you cant.

Uhh yea one is gun control just so we're clear.
izybx
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6/4/2008  8:57 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Im sure you can recognize the difference between someone who can go to a gun shop down south and buy 20 handguns without registering them and going to NYC and having to pay 2X the value of a gun just to register it legally. Then again maybe you cant.

Uhh yea one is gun control just so we're clear.

Uhh yea were not disagreeing silly rabbit. My issue is not with the control, its with the excessive price.
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
bitty41
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6/4/2008  9:00 PM
Posted by izybx:
Posted by bitty41:
Im sure you can recognize the difference between someone who can go to a gun shop down south and buy 20 handguns without registering them and going to NYC and having to pay 2X the value of a gun just to register it legally. Then again maybe you cant.

Uhh yea one is gun control just so we're clear.

Uhh yea were not disagreeing silly rabbit. My issue is not with the control, its with the excessive price.

What do you expect you live in NYC duh EVERYTHING IS EXCESSIVELY PRICED
Silverfuel
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6/4/2008  9:05 PM
Posted by bitty41:

What do you expect you live in NYC duh EVERYTHING IS EXCESSIVELY PRICED
This is true. I paid, $9.88 for a slice of plain and a soda!
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
izybx
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6/4/2008  9:08 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by izybx:
Posted by bitty41:
Im sure you can recognize the difference between someone who can go to a gun shop down south and buy 20 handguns without registering them and going to NYC and having to pay 2X the value of a gun just to register it legally. Then again maybe you cant.

Uhh yea one is gun control just so we're clear.

Uhh yea were not disagreeing silly rabbit. My issue is not with the control, its with the excessive price.

What do you expect you live in NYC duh EVERYTHING IS EXCESSIVELY PRICED

Thats why as soon as I retire Im moving to Costa Rica

Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
Silverfuel
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6/5/2008  12:12 PM
You make a lot of good arguments and some of them I agree with. I wanted to engage you on this thread for a few posts.
Posted by nykshaknbake:

I think you've illustrated why Clinton backers act the way they do. It's not Obama, but his supporters. You guys split. Obama is the next coming of MLK, Gandhi Jesus and Buddha. Anyone who opposes him is a racist, ignorant manipulative jerk off.
I know a lot of Obama supporters get carried away in their support but I don't think everyone goes as far as that. I don't see Obama as a very great person and definitely not as a demigod. I just see him as the best candidate. I do agree that a lot of Obama's support come from the overly passionate circle.

I have tried to discuss policy with McCain supporters. He voted for the war, Obama didn't. He has no concrete stand on economics. He never tried to openly criticize Bush for approving water boarding. He will not tell us what he wants to do about immigration. I am ready to discuss why Obama is better than McCain as a president but I want to talk past policies and future plans.
It'a amazing, you look at the sites like the DailyKos (and UK) and see people who probably once were eating out of her hand totally trashing Clinton because she's running against Obama.
UK isn't like that. DailyKos is a necessity to balance out O'Rielly. Its ying to the foxnews yang.

So what do you think? Do you think McCain will be a better choice than Obama? Is it because he subscribes to the conservative philosophy or because of his resume and his plans for the future of the country.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 06-05-2008 12:13 PM]
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
sebstar
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6/5/2008  4:58 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

I think you've illustrated why Clinton backers act the way they do. It's not Obama, but his supporters. You guys split. Obama is the next coming of MLK, Gandhi Jesus and Buddha. Anyone who opposes him is a racist, ignorant manipulative jerk off. It'a amazing, you look at the sites like the DailyKos (and UK) and see people who probably once were eating out of her hand totally trashing Clinton because she's running against Obama.

I'm sure. I guess all the race baiting...Bill Clinton's Jesse Jackson's comment, Geraldine Ferraro's: "Obama wouldnt be where he is if he weren't Black" comment, Hillary's placating of the "white working class vote" and her objections that Obama cant win said vote, and this latest video of this racist nutjob, highlighted by 4949 which sums up a healthy portion of the Clinton fanbase, are all just wild imaginations drummed up by Obama stans.

Show me the inverse, from the Obama base, where Clinton has been consistently attacked over her gender.

Your post is couched in hyperbole and rhetoric and isnt the least bit grounded in factual basis. Yes Clinton sympathizer you are. No worries.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
sebstar
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6/5/2008  8:41 PM
An angry and upset Rep. James Clyburn said Wednesday that his office has been deluged with nasty phone calls with racial overtones since his endorsement of Barack Obama a day earlier.
Clyburn told FOX News Radio’s “Brian and the Judge” that the callers identified themselves as Hillary Clinton supporters. Clyburn, an African-American and the third ranking House Democrat, said a white intern in his office was so upset by the calls that she had to be consoled by other workers and left the office early.

“We got more vitriolic, nasty phone calls, really racially tinged phone calls in my congressional office, so much so, until one of the interns, a young lady who is not a stranger to politics … and she is not a black person, she left the office, had to be consoled because of the kinds of phone calls from people who identified themselves as Hillary Clinton supporters,” he said.

Clyburn said some of the callers used “names that I would not repeat on this show today.”

“I was absolutely shocked, could not believe that this happened. I could understand people saying, ‘Why are you doing this or why would you not support Hillary Clinton?’ but to call me the kinds of names I have not heard since the ’40s and ’50s,” he said.

Clyburn said some of the callers threatened to “sabotage this election.” He added that he does not think Clinton understands her role in unifying the party

More Obama fueled hallucinations I suppose. People love to deny and put their heads in the sand in modern a modern day setting. "Problem, there is no problem. The only problems are from those black trouble makers" --- random middle american from the 1960's.

Then, years later we are subjected to a bunch of hand wringing, and faux outrage when people reflect years later. Oh, things arent like that anymore they say. Standard disingenuous behavior. No, racism still exists and the next coming months are going to further expose that.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
izybx
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6/6/2008  6:13 AM
Posted by sebstar:
An angry and upset Rep. James Clyburn said Wednesday that his office has been deluged with nasty phone calls with racial overtones since his endorsement of Barack Obama a day earlier.
Clyburn told FOX News Radio’s “Brian and the Judge” that the callers identified themselves as Hillary Clinton supporters. Clyburn, an African-American and the third ranking House Democrat, said a white intern in his office was so upset by the calls that she had to be consoled by other workers and left the office early.

“We got more vitriolic, nasty phone calls, really racially tinged phone calls in my congressional office, so much so, until one of the interns, a young lady who is not a stranger to politics … and she is not a black person, she left the office, had to be consoled because of the kinds of phone calls from people who identified themselves as Hillary Clinton supporters,” he said.

Clyburn said some of the callers used “names that I would not repeat on this show today.”

“I was absolutely shocked, could not believe that this happened. I could understand people saying, ‘Why are you doing this or why would you not support Hillary Clinton?’ but to call me the kinds of names I have not heard since the ’40s and ’50s,” he said.

Clyburn said some of the callers threatened to “sabotage this election.” He added that he does not think Clinton understands her role in unifying the party

More Obama fueled hallucinations I suppose. People love to deny and put their heads in the sand in modern a modern day setting. "Problem, there is no problem. The only problems are from those black trouble makers" --- random middle american from the 1960's.

Then, years later we are subjected to a bunch of hand wringing, and faux outrage when people reflect years later. Oh, things arent like that anymore they say. Standard disingenuous behavior. No, racism still exists and the next coming months are going to further expose that.

Of course racism still exists. But according to you its only wrong if its white toward black. If its the other way around then youre the first one on here accusing people of being ignorant to the plight of (insert racist here) and how we need to be understanding. Why dont you make sililar arguments for white people who are ignorant bigots? Sounds to me like you have some peronal issues yourself.
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sebstar
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6/6/2008  9:10 PM
Izybx, I think you are missing a critical component to your analysis.

One thing that the conservative party has tried to do, is switch the role of the oppressor and the ones who the are oppressed. See, you and I are just two individuals, I dont have the right to mock or infringe on your quality of life, nor vice versa. Personal interaction and respect is not what we're referring.

What's at play is institutional and structural racism, which has been in play the moment blacks arrived on this domestic soil. Whites have brutally dehumanized Blacks solely based on the color of their skin. This has been as consistent as anything in American history. Blacks articulating and expressing frustration with such treatment is NOT racism. What conservatives have been so adept at, is marginalizing Blacks when they question such treatment, as evidenced by the framing of Rev. Wright.

In addition, Rev Wright didnt even make it a white/black issue, more so a govt. issue. But becuase whites see the goverment as a reflection of themselves, they took it as a personal attack. I thought that was most telling.

Anyway, I'm sure you are well meaning guy, but its obvious that we are speaking two different languages here.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
izybx
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6/7/2008  6:07 AM
Posted by sebstar:

Izybx, I think you are missing a critical component to your analysis.

One thing that the conservative party has tried to do, is switch the role of the oppressor and the ones who the are oppressed. See, you and I are just two individuals, I dont have the right to mock or infringe on your quality of life, nor vice versa. Personal interaction and respect is not what we're referring.

What's at play is institutional and structural racism, which has been in play the moment blacks arrived on this domestic soil. Whites have brutally dehumanized Blacks solely based on the color of their skin. This has been as consistent as anything in American history. Blacks articulating and expressing frustration with such treatment is NOT racism. What conservatives have been so adept at, is marginalizing Blacks when they question such treatment, as evidenced by the framing of Rev. Wright.

In addition, Rev Wright didnt even make it a white/black issue, more so a govt. issue. But becuase whites see the goverment as a reflection of themselves, they took it as a personal attack. I thought that was most telling.

Anyway, I'm sure you are well meaning guy, but its obvious that we are speaking two different languages here.

I think what you mean to say is that I am missing a critical point as to YOUR analysis. I dont care what somebodys been through, if you are racist then you are racist. Period, end of story. If you want to justify it than you can do so if it makes you feel better.
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Bonn1997
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6/7/2008  12:27 PM
BTW, before putting a lot of effort into persuading anyone on politics, read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
bitty41
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6/7/2008  1:07 PM
Posted by izybx:
Posted by sebstar:

Izybx, I think you are missing a critical component to your analysis.

One thing that the conservative party has tried to do, is switch the role of the oppressor and the ones who the are oppressed. See, you and I are just two individuals, I dont have the right to mock or infringe on your quality of life, nor vice versa. Personal interaction and respect is not what we're referring.

What's at play is institutional and structural racism, which has been in play the moment blacks arrived on this domestic soil. Whites have brutally dehumanized Blacks solely based on the color of their skin. This has been as consistent as anything in American history. Blacks articulating and expressing frustration with such treatment is NOT racism. What conservatives have been so adept at, is marginalizing Blacks when they question such treatment, as evidenced by the framing of Rev. Wright.

In addition, Rev Wright didnt even make it a white/black issue, more so a govt. issue. But becuase whites see the goverment as a reflection of themselves, they took it as a personal attack. I thought that was most telling.

Anyway, I'm sure you are well meaning guy, but its obvious that we are speaking two different languages here.

I think what you mean to say is that I am missing a critical point as to YOUR analysis. I dont care what somebodys been through, if you are racist then you are racist. Period, end of story. If you want to justify it than you can do so if it makes you feel better.

Is this election about Rev Wright or Obama? Stop with this complete nonsense because unless you believe that Obama subscribes to racist beliefs why is Rev Wright even relevant?
sebstar
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6/7/2008  1:44 PM
Its telling that you "dont care"...most conservatives are of the opinion that if it doesnt affect them, then it doesnt matter, which explains their positions on poverty, racism, health care, ext...

So Wright becomes "radical", "angry", and "racist" for having a better command of the actual history of this country than 99% of the ahistorical pundits who are discussing him and the unthinking and the unquestioning.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
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