Posted by JohnWallace44:

Since you decided to mock another poster's mention of D'Antoni's accomplishments in the Italian league, I countered by essentially asking why they should be dismissed so quickly. I think his accomplishments are champagne worthy - after all, he won in the Italian league. You responded by being confused. Then, you continued with a smokescreen - asking me to give you the name of a coach in Italy.

Why are you so easily dismissing the head coach of THE Italian League Champions?

Posted by JohnWallace44:

Since you decided to mock another poster's mention of D'Antoni's accomplishments in the Italian league, I countered by essentially asking why they should be dismissed so quickly. I think his accomplishments are champagne worthy - after all, he won in the Italian league. You responded by being confused. Then, you continued with a smokescreen - asking me to give you the name of a coach in Italy.

Why are you so easily dismissing the head coach of THE Italian League Champions?

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by islesfan:

I don't think the Suns underachieved. Quite the contrary. I think they performed as well as they could with that system and the perfect "Mike D'Antonio type players". They won games in the regular season but when it came down to playing playoff basketball against real contenders, they proved to be nothing but pretenders. That was their ceiling.

The players determined the ceiling, my friend. Not D'Antoni. And the major players, for the most part were there before D'Antoni arrived. Thus, D'Antoni tailored a style that fit the pieces.

Posted by holfresh:

I really don't get the feeling this duo will turn this organization around...It's early I know, but this organization still has no plan or direction..STILL...I would have hope with all that we have seen over the past eight years, we would committ to rebuilding this group through the draft, get under the cap, and build from the ground up...Instead, we seem to be on the road to retooling to fit Mike D's scheme of balling...One that has proven not to be successful in the playoffs..Thinking we can get the parts to compete offensively like the Sun's did is a bit of a stretch...I also don't think this is a Championship style of play...As a long time Knick fan, I have come to love defensive basketball...I cannot envision a successful Knick basketball running and gunning with knowledgeable Garden fans embracing this as winning basketball...

With the Knicks dropping to the 6th pick, I not sure when we will see some relief...So the modus aperandi for now will be expect the worst and hope for the best...It's going the be a long season once again...

Posted by fishmike:
did Marion play on a winning team before DAntoni? Maybe that one year w/ Marbury and co lost to the Spurs in the first round? other from that Marion was a "stat" guy as you would call him. When Mike D got there they started winning. Did Nash win MVPs with Dallas? Funny how his gimmicky system produced career years from the players that play in it.. oh, and wins too. Not to mention guys like Grant Hill willing to play for him for nothing. Seems people hold him in high regard (except you)

it's funny but before Nash got to Phoenix plenty of guys around here had Marbury ranked higher on their PG rankings when Bonn posted those poll threads... just thought i'd throw that out there... D'Antoni might not coach the system some guys prefer around here but i defy anyone to call the guy a bad coach.

[Edited by - TMS on 05-28-2008 12:48 AM]

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by islesfan:


Don't know, the Italian League playoffs don't matter to me.

Is this because coaching is a uniquely American skill? You wouldn't be able to tell from watching the NBA.

No, because like you said, he didn't get to coach NBA players and coaching in the NBA is different.

And how is it so different that his European awards become irrelevant?

So you think European awards translate to the NBA in what way exactly?

Posted by codeunknown:

This my all D'Antoni lineup:

Rasheed Wallace
KG
Kobe Bryant
Manu Ginobili
Chris Paul

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by codeunknown:


How many boards did the immortals - Nowitzki, Diop and Dampier - average for that series?

Phoenix was outrebounded by an average of 7.2 rebounds per game. Nowitzki averaged 15 boards in that series.

And? Like I already said, Nowitzki is a bad matchup for any team, even teams with players above 6-8.

That's a nice stat by itself but I'd like to see it in more of a context. How have the Suns rebounded during D'Antonio's entire time there. It would seem that a team that likes to run and gun and launch 3 pointers would be out of position to rebound more than most teams.

Would it surprise you that during that regular season, the Mavs outrebounded their opponents by 4 rebs a game and the Suns were outrebounded by their opponents by 4 rebs a game. Would it surprise you that every Mike D'Antonio team has on average been outrebounded by their opponents? Regardless of how many players they had above 6-8 in their starting lineup.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by codeunknown:


How many boards did the immortals - Nowitzki, Diop and Dampier - average for that series?

Phoenix was outrebounded by an average of 7.2 rebounds per game. Nowitzki averaged 15 boards in that series.

And? Like I already said, Nowitzki is a bad matchup for any team, even teams with players above 6-8.

That's a nice stat by itself but I'd like to see it in more of a context. How have the Suns rebounded during D'Antonio's entire time there. It would seem that a team that likes to run and gun and launch 3 pointers would be out of position to rebound more than most teams.

Would it surprise you that during that regular season, the Mavs outrebounded their opponents by 4 rebs a game and the Suns were outrebounded by their opponents by 4 rebs a game. Would it surprise you that every Mike D'Antonio team has on average been outrebounded by their opponents? Regardless of how many players they had above 6-8 in their starting lineup.

So your grand explanation is that the reason they were outrebounded is because D'Antoni wants them to shoot 3s? Isles, this is not one of your good moments. 3 pointers make for long rebounds and a greater opportunity on the offensive boards, whether taken early or late in the shot clock.

The bottom line remains that D'Antoni's perfect personel couldn't rebound and that looms large as the cause for their loss to Dallas. Having bigger players up front would without question have improved the rebounding deficit and given them a better chance to win. Ignoring the deficiencies, both with rebounding and shot-blocking (which I hope you don't think is overrated), in their players and blaming D'Antoni for some intangible reason is not very convincing.

If anything, D'Antoni's preference for the transition game helped negate the rebounding and shot-blocking advantage of opposing teams. He should be given credit for recognizing that the best chance of success for his imperfect players was to play uptempo.

I'm moved that you would consider it grand. You also left out the run and gun part where quick shots are taken which prevents the Suns from being able to block out effectively. That includes quick 3 pt shots. And just for ****s and giggles, I looked it up and Mike D'Antonio's Suns were constantly worse on the offensive glass than the defensive glass.

Since when is an emphasis on rebounding, defense or shotblocking a trait of a "Mike D'Antonio type player"?

"Imperfect players", that's the best way to describe the prototypical "Mike D'Antonio type player". Please don't make it seem like D'Antonio just played the hand that he was dealt in Phoenix and that that wasn't exactly the type of team and players that he wanted.

Posted by holfresh:

I really don't get the feeling this duo will turn this organization around...It's early I know, but this organization still has no plan or direction..STILL...I would have hope with all that we have seen over the past eight years, we would committ to rebuilding this group through the draft, get under the cap, and build from the ground up...Instead, we seem to be on the road to retooling to fit Mike D's scheme of balling...One that has proven not to be successful in the playoffs..Thinking we can get the parts to compete offensively like the Sun's did is a bit of a stretch...I also don't think this is a Championship style of play...As a long time Knick fan, I have come to love defensive basketball...I cannot envision a successful Knick basketball running and gunning with knowledgeable Garden fans embracing this as winning basketball...

With the Knicks dropping to the 6th pick, I not sure when we will see some relief...So the modus aperandi for now will be expect the worst and hope for the best...It's going the be a long season once again...

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by islesfan:

I'll give you that point. D'Antonio's style will help to superficially inflate some players statistics which might make them easier to move.

But once you hopefully get past the point of unloading bad players and their contracts, it's about building a contender. That's where D'Antonio's system falls far short.

i'm not sure if you're saying Steve Nash & Amare Stoudamire's stats were superficially inflated due to D'Antoni's system or that D'Antoni's success was a direct product of their quality as players... which is it?

[Edited by - TMS on 05-28-2008 12:46 AM]

Both.