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idiots who liked the zach randolph trade...MANUP!!!
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Bonn1997
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12/1/2007  5:16 PM
Posted by bitty41:

Bonn quick question does the addition of KG to this Knicks roster, meaning no other changes are they winning 50 games?
No. Adding Michael Jordan in his prime wouldn't turn this dysfunctional roster into a 50 win team. That's how little we have to show from six years of starphucking. Why do you ask?

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 12-01-2007 5:16 PM]
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djsunyc
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12/1/2007  5:16 PM
Posted by bitty41:

Idiots who liked the Q trade manup

Idiots who liked the Jamal Crawford signing manup

Idiots who liked the Nate Robinson draft pick manup

Idiots who thought Eddy Curry was an all-star manup

Idiots who thought David Lee should have been 6th man of the year Manup

Idiots who thought Jared Jefferies was going to be the glue manup

Idiots who thought Balkman was a better draft selection then a point guard manup

Idiots who thought Mardy Collins was the next New York Knicks starting point guard manup

martin/andrew - can we get these threads created and stickied on top please. thanks.

bitty - the MANUP thread was created by simrud for mo taylor. i played on that tongue in cheek and created this thread...hence the picture of both them in the first post.
Killa4luv
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12/1/2007  5:22 PM
I liked the trade then and I like it now. Oh, and I'm not an idiot.

[Edited by - killa4luv on 12-01-2007 9:39 PM]
BlueSeats
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12/1/2007  5:32 PM
Posted by bitty41:

Blue wouldn't you agree that is pointless to even have a discussion about fixing the Knicks until Isiah Thomas is gone? We all could go on all day about this trade, that draft, that buy-out but we're just wasting our time because Isiah Thomas is still at the head of this ship.


Bitty, I'm on my way out so I gotta be super short.

Yes, I whole heartedly agree.

And I think you're doing a good job of identifying Zach as the best "talent" on the team. But it still begs the question: so what?

I think there is a loosely defined genre of player that includes the likes of Marbury, TT, Mo Taylor, Jamal, Ricky Davis, Steve Francis, Walker, Curry, Zach, Nate, etc, and Marbury and Zach might be the best of the bunch, but so what? Does that make them keepers? Do you invest in them and try to build around them, or get away from them?

The number of these types we've tried to work through is staggering. A great team/coach/system can absorb one or two, but we aren't that. This is not the place to try to transform these guys. look at their track record across the league, let alone here.

Catch ya later.
eViL
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12/1/2007  5:33 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by Andrew:

colorfl1, you comment reminded me of something. Why does leadership need to come from the PG position. It is nice, but is it really necessary. KG is a leader from the PF position.

Maybe the problem is Isiah has not brought in a leader....at any position.

Not only that. Isiah has brought in a number of guys who have a reputation for not following.

at least our interns follow.

Very good point. I assume they swallow as well...
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
Bonn1997
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12/1/2007  5:34 PM
Posted by bitty41:

Blue wouldn't you agree that is pointless to even have a discussion about fixing the Knicks until Isiah Thomas is gone? We all could go on all day about this trade, that draft, that buy-out but we're just wasting our time because Isiah Thomas is still at the head of this ship.

Any discussion of fixing the Knicks is pointless until Dolan and Cablevision are out of the picture. Don't get your hopes up when Dolan and Mills pick the next GM.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 12-01-2007 5:34 PM]
djsunyc
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12/1/2007  5:45 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by Andrew:

colorfl1, you comment reminded me of something. Why does leadership need to come from the PG position. It is nice, but is it really necessary. KG is a leader from the PF position.

Maybe the problem is Isiah has not brought in a leader....at any position.

Not only that. Isiah has brought in a number of guys who have a reputation for not following.

at least our interns follow.

Very good point. I assume they swallow as well...

there is no place for this type of talk on this forum...
loweyecue
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12/1/2007  7:11 PM
Posted by bitty41:

loweycue

Take a deep breath! But I'll go with your suggestion and take a step back. Correct me if im wrong but do we not have a draft pick this summer? Don't Marbs and Malik's contract come off the books in the next 2 seasons? Do we not have the flexibility to move Curry or Lee whereas before if you moved either one of them this summer for guards you would have a major void down low in either scoring or rebounding. If you disagree or if I am wrong about any of the above please correct me.

You are not wrong but, we owe a first rounder to Phoenix which we may give them this yera or it becomes an unprotected one next year.
What you are saying may be true for a team with a lot of cap space and trade value that's NOT US!!! That's what make this a terrible trade, then as now

Look nothing has changed in terms of whose trade value is what on this team. Meaning that Lee as before the Randolph trade has pretty decent trade value and same goes with Curry. Though you will be a 100% correct if they both continue to play poorly their trade value will go down into the toilet. Marbury has absolutely no trade value same as Q, Jerome James, and Jared Jefferies. But you can’t put that on the Zach trade.

I do not hate Randolph, I was just saying the tarde didn't make sense because it didn't fill any needs
We don't need a mismatched set of cave trolls with identical vacant expressions to lose 105-59 while shelling out over a 30 million a year for them. Curry and Zach are conplete misfits and couldn't work together if their lives depended on it.

Guess what I'll let you in on a little secret they aren't the only ones not meshing on this roster. Even more so this isn’t the first year a Knicks roster that hasn’t been meshing. Yea I know shocking but the line-up of Marbs, Crawford, and Q isn't exactly working out great. So maybe just maybe this whole meshing thing could be blamed on coaching and the overall team as opposed to just the Zach Randolph trade. Call me crazy call me a Zachlover but is everything really the guy's fault?

You are so right on that one and that's precoisely why a trade that exacerbated the situation is exactly what we didn't need.

DJ creates this ridiculous thread (but I guess im ridiculous for posting in it LOL) because the Knicks got their asses handed to them but it was everyone from top to bottom not just Zach not just Curry or not just Marbury but everyone got embarrassed by the Celtics. So next time we create threads calling out the "idiots who liked this trade, draft pick, or signing". Then we need about 10 other threads to go along with it.


Idiots who liked the Q trade manup

Idiots who liked the Jamal Crawford signing manup

Idiots who liked the Nate Robinson draft pick manup

Idiots who thought Eddy Curry was an all-star manup

Idiots who thought David Lee should have been 6th man of the year Manup

Idiots who thought Jared Jefferies was going to be the glue manup

Idiots who thought Balkman was a better draft selection then a point guard manup

Idiots who thought Mardy Collins was the next New York Knicks starting point guard manup

Well you get the point.


But you know what Zach's biggest offense that he ever committed was TAKING DAVID LEE' SPOT that in itself; Zach will have to be a damn near MVP before some fans give even think about saying something positive about him.

Lee is overrated in my opinion especially on these boards. But to justify the Zach trade by saying it gives us the option to trade Curry makes very little sense in my opinion.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 12-01-2007 4:21 PM]


TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Cash
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12/1/2007  7:16 PM
I liked the trade when it happened. Not for the reasons someone like Isiah liked the trade though.

I liked the trade cause I knew matching up Curry with Zach was going to be a disaster for this team, and it was going to speed up the process up getting rid of Isiah Thomas and Eddy Curry.

By acquiring Zach, you knew right off the bat the defensive combination of Curry and Zach was going to be bad. You also knew that Lee's minutes were going to go down. Lee might not be the best player on this team but he is the most efficient(on a very inefficient team), he has the highest bb IQ (on a dumb team), and basically functioned as glue that was attempting to hold these poorly assembled parts together. You also knew that Eddy Curry was going to suffer offensively because he was not going to be the sole focal point of the offense anymore. And we all know how valuable Curry is on the court when he is not scoring.

I am not claiming that Zach Randolph is an amazing player by any standard. I am simply saying he is a much better all around player than Eddy Curry. So, if we have to live with his large contract for a few years, to be free of Curry and Isiah, I will take it. Of course, that is a problem because he plays the same position as our most efficient player in Lee. However, I think you have to realize that Lee is one the few valuable trade pieces on this roster, and by letting Isiah make all these incoherent moves for the last few years, it was going to be necessary(for the next GM) to trade Lee anyway in order to attempt to put together a coherent team.
Knicksfan
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12/1/2007  7:37 PM
The moves Isiah does always look good because he gets the most talented player in each one. But then you see how that translates to the team and you simply hate them.

I hope Isiah isn't allowed to do another one...
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bitty41
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12/1/2007  8:23 PM
Okay I'll try to get to everyone's responses.

Blue so what? is a very valuable question. But in Zach's case I just think that down the road under a different regime Zach could be a major component. I don't think he has reached his ceiling and I also believe that he could be apart of a winning situation. So yes I would like to see Zach in different circumstances and then I'll make my final assesement if it blows up I'll be standing first in line to say "hey guys my bad I was wrong".


DJ,

You created a lynch mob on this board. You little instigator

Bonn,

The Knicks savior doesn't come in player form okay we agree on that. So why knock Zach when its just business as usual with the Knicks. Why condemn him when there are others who have committed far more egregious acts and done it for far longer?


Loweyecue,

Okay I was under the assumption that we would get our lottery pick if we finish in the lottery? I'll need to research that one. Or not because I would actually prefer to make up my own stuff LOL. Hey Marbury trade what can I say the gift that keeps on giving.

Not filling a need hey Malik Rose is not filling a need, Jerome James isn't filling a need, Jared Jefferies isn't a filling a need. Zach doesn't belong in that cateogry. Is his talent redundant yes but he does have positives why not *ahem* view it positively instead as only a negative?


If the whole trading Curry doesn't make sense to you let me put it this way. Curry does only 1 thing well just like Lee really only does one thing well. If you asked most GM's if they would rather have two guys to do the job that one guy should be doing what would mostly likely be their answer? Sorry thats a little wordy but you know what I mean.
Anji
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12/1/2007  8:49 PM
Posted by bitty41:


If the whole trading Curry doesn't make sense to you let me put it this way. Curry does only 1 thing well just like Lee really only does one thing well. If you asked most GM's if they would rather have two guys to do the job that one guy should be doing what would mostly likely be their answer? Sorry thats a little wordy but you know what I mean.
Zach is a cancer. Who cares what he does well??? How many rebounds and good of scorer do you have to be to for it to be a positive to totally disrupt a teams chemistry???? I think you have to grab atleast 40 boards and average 75 points for Zach kind of selfishness to be ok.
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BigC
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12/1/2007  8:51 PM
I like the Zach trade. I'm not going anywhere. Picture frame my name. I can be wrong out of a bilion times I'm right. I also still think Zach is a good move. Zach has played what? One month? You guys gave Q an easy pass for 3 years. Yet you want to bash Zach for one month of bad play with a team that has no system and a joke for a coach?


I like the Zach trade. If you want you can spray paint my name in Penn Station with Zach's name attach to the trade.

[Edited by - BigC on 12-02-2007 10:28 AM]
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bitty41
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12/1/2007  8:53 PM
Anji
Zach is a cancer. Who cares what he does well??? How many rebounds and good of scorer do you have to be to for it to be a positive to totally disrupt a teams chemistry????

Thanks for the input because we all are very aware that Zach tore our great team chemistry apart with his arrival. You know because it was so great before he got here




[Edited by - bitty41 on 12-01-2007 8:55 PM]
TrueBlue
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12/1/2007  9:00 PM
I hated the Zach trade for two reasons the cap implications and the devaluing of our current players who may have had greater upside if he wasn't on the roster. Is he our top player I'd say so but he wasn't needed and has thus complicated matters.
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bitty41
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12/1/2007  9:04 PM
Posted by BigC:

I like the Zach trade. I'm not going anywhere. Picture frame my name. I can be wrong out of a bilion times I'm right. I also still think Zach is a good move. Zach has played what? One month? You guys gave Q an easy pass for 3 years. Yet you want to bash Zach for one month of bad play with a team that has no system and a joke for a coach?


I like the Zach trade. If you want you can spray paint my in Penn Station with Zach's name attach to the trade.

You know what the problem is here. If your not making less then 5 million dollars with a contract thats getting ready to expire most of the people on here don't want you anywhere near the Knicks organization (unless your Kobe or Lebron). Because of this bias Zach is never going to be right in certain people's eyes. So this Zach piss party will continue and continue and continue.




[Edited by - bitty41 on 12-01-2007 9:06 PM]
loweyecue
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12/1/2007  9:13 PM
Circular arguments are not much good. Of course Malik, JJ etc don't fill a need who said they did? The question was whether I liked the trade the answer is still no.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
bitty41
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12/1/2007  9:21 PM
Whats circular?

And your exact words were "Zach doesn't fill a need" thats a bit strong choice of words don't you think? In retrospect.

If you don't like the trade fine but please can we stop making it seem as though the Zach trade single-handlely destroyed our salary cap, killed a great team chemistry, and made David Lee and Curry play poorly. Thats the issue I have with this thread and the million others that slam Zach.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 12-01-2007 9:22 PM]
Bonn1997
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12/1/2007  9:23 PM
Bonn,

The Knicks savior doesn't come in player form okay we agree on that. So why knock Zach when its just business as usual with the Knicks. Why condemn him when there are others who have committed far more egregious acts and done it for far longer?
If Zach wasn't chubby but actually took conditioning seriously and wasn't selfish with the ball, I'd cut him some slack. But those are pretty awful qualities for a professional athlete and I'd rather just have a free roster spot than have Zach.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 12-01-2007 9:23 PM]
bitty41
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12/1/2007  9:33 PM
Bonn

Your one of those people that its impossible to even debate because you no open mind to Zach at all. You made your judgements and thats that. I gave you something very reasonable I wasn't making Zach out to be a franchise player but rather I was pointing out to you that if we want to complain about a particular player there is plenty of complaints to go around. But you won't budge an inch.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 12-01-2007 9:34 PM]
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idiots who liked the zach randolph trade...MANUP!!!
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