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Some Good News - ZBO Leads NBA In Rebounding
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nyk4ever
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11/16/2007  12:06 PM
Posted by bitty41:
My opinion is that it's going to take some real good complimentary players to make that happen.

With or without Zach this is true.

No doubt Bitty.
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Vmart
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11/16/2007  12:08 PM
The Knicks have a leader in Rebounding and FG% and they still can not win. Don't say its the defense because its not the defense but the offense. They lost close game vs Heat and Clips. The backcourt is severely under performing and that includes the sf position too. The Curry, Randolph and Lee is a nice rotation and that is solid rotation. The problem has been the piss poor shooting exibited by Marbury, Crawford, Nate and Q. These are suppose to be the shooters who spread the floor.
nyk4ever
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11/16/2007  12:10 PM
Posted by Vmart:

The Knicks have a leader in Rebounding and FG% and they still can not win. Don't say its the defense because its not the defense but the offense. They lost close game vs Heat and Clips. The backcourt is severely under performing and that includes the sf position too. The Curry, Randolph and Lee is a nice rotation and that is solid rotation. The problem has been the piss poor shooting exibited by Marbury, Crawford, Nate and Q. These are suppose to be the shooters who spread the floor.

So you're trying to tell me that Defense is playing absolutely no part in the Knicks poor start?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Masterplan
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11/16/2007  12:20 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Rasheed misses a lot of shots and takes bad shots. That makes up for the turnovers. He doesn't do anything else offensively to make up for the huge advantage in pts Zach has. He is a much better defensive player. You made the point that he was much more efficient offensive player. That is patently false. Zach on the other hand is a good offensive player. That's why he was acquired

to be fair, instead of saying that "a lot" of one thing makes up for another, you should maybe look for something quantitative. not knowing what to expect, i took a look at 82games.com for last years's stats (for what they're worth, Det was way better than the Blazers):

rasheed wallace

zach randolph

statistically, their net points (what their team scored vs gave up, them on-court vs off) were about the same (difference was less than 20, a tiny percentage of total points scored over the season).

both helped their team's offensive and defensive efficiencies

anyway, this isn't my argument, but i think it would be more productive for you guys to look at stuff like that...
Vmart
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11/16/2007  12:33 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Vmart:

The Knicks have a leader in Rebounding and FG% and they still can not win. Don't say its the defense because its not the defense but the offense. They lost close game vs Heat and Clips. The backcourt is severely under performing and that includes the sf position too. The Curry, Randolph and Lee is a nice rotation and that is solid rotation. The problem has been the piss poor shooting exibited by Marbury, Crawford, Nate and Q. These are suppose to be the shooters who spread the floor.

So you're trying to tell me that Defense is playing absolutely no part in the Knicks poor start?

What I'm saying is that the point totals allowed for the heat and clips game weren't that bad. The shooters are stuggling hard they are inconsistent. Thats all that I'm saying. If the Knicks let out 85 points per game I'll take it everytime. Wouldn't you.

newyorknewyork
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11/16/2007  12:40 PM
You can win during the regular season with weak defense. Mavs & Kings did it for yrs. They got away with it because the ball movement on offense was excellent. You just can't win championship with weak defenses.

I think thats what people are looking at. We KNOW we aren't going to be good defensively. We don't have any type of enforcer in the paint, and we have very limited defensive guards. So basically our only hope is that we can be so efficient on offense with offensive fire power we have that we can win games. The problem is that they aren't efficient on offense. They turn the ball over to much. They don't create easy shots each other.

For this defensively flawed team with offensive fire power. We have to average 23-24assist per game as a team. 102-105pts per game as a team. 13 turnovers per game as a team.

We average 18assist per game as a team. 97pts per game as a team. 17 turnovers per game as a team. Subtract 5 turnovers and add 5 assist we would hit every #. The problem is this team is turnover prone. Marbury, Crawford, Curry, Randolph, Richardson, Nate they are all turnover prone. So I can't even expect them to cut down the turnovers. So we will continue to be the Tim Thomas of the NBA.
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misterearl
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11/16/2007  12:43 PM
shooting 36% doesn't help much either

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misterearl
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11/16/2007  12:44 PM
no more three point shots until further notice
once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
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11/16/2007  12:45 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

We average 18assist per game as a team. 97pts per game as a team. 17 turnovers per game as a team. Subtract 5 turnovers and add 5 assist we would hit every #. The problem is this team is turnover prone. Marbury, Crawford, Curry, Randolph, Richardson, Nate they are all turnover prone. So I can't even expect them to cut down the turnovers. So we will continue to be the Tim Thomas of the NBA.

both lb and isiah said they had to simplify the plays. i think for the turnovers to be cut down, we would need a major change in personnel.
VDesai
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11/16/2007  12:58 PM
We don't have any brains at the guard position, which you're never gonna be able to get away with.
newyorknewyork
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11/16/2007  1:02 PM
There is a way out. Im telling you. We gotta trade Curry & Crawford together. There stats are decent right now to. If we can move them for contracts ending in 09 no matter how poor in talent the players we get back are we would be in good shape, maybe even get a pick in the proccess. Fire Isiah or reduce his role to scout, if he don't like it he can quit, buy out Marbury, James, Rose. Probably end up with a very good lotto pick.

At that point Randolph, Lee, Chandler, Balkman, Nate, Collins, Morris, Jefferies, Richardson, Jones would be left as well as the players we moved Curry & Crawford for. Move Richardson to an already good team looking to upgrade talent for a lesser talent with an ending contract in 09. Target a top PG or Center in the draft.

We can rebuild this thing.

With a strong PG I would have him create for Randolph rather than having Randolph shooting 20 times a game. If Randolph don't accept it then he get traded.
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VDesai
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11/16/2007  1:19 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

There is a way out. Im telling you. We gotta trade Curry & Crawford together. There stats are decent right now to. If we can move them for contracts ending in 09 no matter how poor in talent the players we get back are we would be in good shape, maybe even get a pick in the proccess. Fire Isiah or reduce his role to scout, if he don't like it he can quit, buy out Marbury, James, Rose. Probably end up with a very good lotto pick.

At that point Randolph, Lee, Chandler, Balkman, Nate, Collins, Morris, Jefferies, Richardson, Jones would be left as well as the players we moved Curry & Crawford for. Move Richardson to an already good team looking to upgrade talent for a lesser talent with an ending contract in 09. Target a top PG or Center in the draft.

We can rebuild this thing.

With a strong PG I would have him create for Randolph rather than having Randolph shooting 20 times a game. If Randolph don't accept it then he get traded.


How about Crawford and Curry for Dalembert, Korver, Kevin Ollie (expiring) and a pick?

That would make a big difference w/regards to our shooting and defense.
bobs3304
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11/16/2007  7:46 PM
Wait, isn't Sheed the one who "settles for 3's too much"?

Sure, he's a top defender, no doubt. Tim Duncan admitted he fears Sheed more than any other pf.

But Z-BO got props from KG. KG said he's the hardest for him to guard in the league.

Plus you counter in the rebounding edge.

I'd say they can be equally effective. Sheed just needed vet teammates and a strict coach to keep him on a leash.

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 16-11-2007 7:46 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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Some Good News - ZBO Leads NBA In Rebounding
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