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How a "true" fan deals with adversity
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4949
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11/1/2007  7:35 PM
Posted by kam77:
Are you ready for some basketball?!

I sure am!

OK, I may be exaggerating slightly. But I am looking forward to the Knicks' season opener Friday night against LeBron James and the defending Eastern Conference champion Cavaliers in Cleveland.

Unless you were living in a cave watching old 1970 tapes of the Knicks, you know the offseason was horrible for James Dolan, Isiah Thomas and the whole franchise. The Knicks went through a trial which was embarrassing, disgraceful and disgusting. I can't think of enough words to describe it. NBA Commissioner David Stern can't stop criticizing the Knicks about it - and I don't really blame him.

And you know what? Even though the sexual harassment case was a major black eye for the team and the league, I did not for one second think about abandoning the Knicks as a fan.

Don't get me wrong - I still intend to protest the brass' inexcusable behavior. I will not attend any Knicks games this season. Honestly, it's tough to buy tickets to games in a good year, because they are so outrageously expensive. So this was an easy decision for me. I don't know if you want to call it a boycott or not, but I will not go see the Knicks during the 2007-2008 season.

However, I will still watch games on TV and support the players. I still want the Knicks to do well. I think that's what being a fan is all about.

It's about faith. What good is it to be a fan of a team if, when things are going poorly, you abandon them? Here's the thing: When the Knicks finally turn things around (and it could still be a while), I will feel good about sticking with them. All the teams I have rooted for (Knicks, Mets, Jets and Rangers) have been through bad times - although this scandal is by far the most embarrassing. But when the bad times happen, I am not just going to switch allegiances to a team that's doing better. That's called frontrunning. I am not sure why I picked those four teams (probably because I grew up in NY), but I am going to stick with them. The only way I would abandon one of my teams would be if it abandoned me - i.e. if the team packed its bags and moved out of the area.

-David Boroff (Daily News)

Being a fan that only can get behind their team and its players in good times is called a frontrunner. You're either in the truck or...

Kam, I want to present you with 'the idiiot award'. I mean how in the world can anyone complain about the conditions of this franchise, without being accused of not being a Knick fan?!!! This goes for the rest of you idots who say the same thing. The notion is rediculuos. Your an idiot because people like you try to control people by making them feel wrong. I for one am not wrong about my views, my thoughts or my feelings about what's been going on here. This is the problem with LOVERS. They're too blind to see that they're getting taken for a ride. As a Hater, I damn want my team back from these fools who run this damn organization. Have a nice day.

Now you may speak.
I'll never trust this' team again.
AUTOADVERT
4949
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11/1/2007  7:40 PM
Posted by azamatbagatov:

Hey all, new here. I have been reading the posts for over a year now and decided to finally jump into the frey.....

I don't think anybody here is abandoning the team, or else they wouldn't spend that much time posting about them on a knicks message board.

I completely and totally disagree with the way this franchise is run and has been run under isiah's tenure. The best thing IMO for the future of the knicks, is for the knicks to not make the playoffs and finally fire isiah.

Then somebody with a plan might come in here and start to realize that the nba isn't the same as yahoo fantasy basketball. The last 3 1/2 years have been a nightmare on and off the court for this franchise.

We are all knicks fans, or else we wouldn't be here.

You are a true 'Azam-bassador'! Welcome!
I'll never trust this' team again.
SupremeCommander
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11/1/2007  7:52 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by Nalod:

deal with adversity?



After a loss.......




Whats with mixing tobacco and laherba buena?

I'm actually smoking a spliff right now. Picked it up when I was living Brussels. You can keep smoke all day and be able to operate heavy machinery.

Almost everyone I chilled with last time I was in Europe would twist joints with tobacco mixed in. Apparently, they think it makes the joints burn better. Personally, I can roll joints just fine without the tobacco, but I don't mind mixing it in -- especially when you are rolling crazy big joints like that super-tulip. Big joints like that will canoe more often that regular joints unless you mix some tobacco in.

That makes a lot of sense, for sure. I don't share that problem either, but you can see how it does burn better with tobacco and I never realized that until now (with your help). Personally, I use the mix if I have something to do but want to puff. You can roll a regular sized j and have it be a 50/50 mix instead of burning half of one and keeping it for later.

For example, I used to work as a reporter and if what I was covering sucked, I'd smoke on the way... I'd take it to the point where everything I did was interesting. I've also interviewed like that (and been hired from said interview) and attended sales meetings (to see if I and the rest of the department hit quota). I'm not sure I could have done that with a regular, American-style joint.

I think we should all get together for a game sometime and take bong rips, but that's just me. And on a related note, I want to buy the Knicks Dynasty Box Set and get so bent that I actually believe those great games are happening live. That's a recipe for success right there.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
BasketballJones
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11/1/2007  8:27 PM
I'm glad to see that RemBee has helped return our focus where it belongs -- on the Knicks.
https:// It's not so hard.
eViL
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11/1/2007  8:40 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

That makes a lot of sense, for sure. I don't share that problem either, but you can see how it does burn better with tobacco and I never realized that until now (with your help). Personally, I use the mix if I have something to do but want to puff. You can roll a regular sized j and have it be a 50/50 mix instead of burning half of one and keeping it for later.

For example, I used to work as a reporter and if what I was covering sucked, I'd smoke on the way... I'd take it to the point where everything I did was interesting. I've also interviewed like that (and been hired from said interview) and attended sales meetings (to see if I and the rest of the department hit quota). I'm not sure I could have done that with a regular, American-style joint.

I think we should all get together for a game sometime and take bong rips, but that's just me. And on a related note, I want to buy the Knicks Dynasty Box Set and get so bent that I actually believe those great games are happening live. That's a recipe for success right there.

Come to a game with these dudes. I got ripped the last time. I think I ranted on Jared Jeffries for an entire quarter while EnySpree and TMS were thinking, "Did this guy just smoke crack?!?" HAHA!!
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
eViL
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11/1/2007  8:54 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I'm glad to see that RemBee has helped return our focus where it belongs -- on the Knicks.

I wonder if the lover v. hater debates will ever end. It's really interesting how the board just fell into that mode after a while. I don't recall it always being like that. It mirrors so many aspects of society it's almost disturbing. Why do people insist on splitting everything up into these silly dichotomies? It's like political affiliations. People can be ignorant to what others say while focusing attention on the label. Haters are anti-american. Lovers are loyal and true. It has frustrated a lot of good conversation. Granted, I still see enough good bball talk that I don't think the board has been ruined. But I wouldn't mind seeing all the lover / hater talk put to rest. No offense to anyone who is passionate about it.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
Marv
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11/1/2007  9:25 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

That makes a lot of sense, for sure. I don't share that problem either, but you can see how it does burn better with tobacco and I never realized that until now (with your help). Personally, I use the mix if I have something to do but want to puff. You can roll a regular sized j and have it be a 50/50 mix instead of burning half of one and keeping it for later.

For example, I used to work as a reporter and if what I was covering sucked, I'd smoke on the way... I'd take it to the point where everything I did was interesting. I've also interviewed like that (and been hired from said interview) and attended sales meetings (to see if I and the rest of the department hit quota). I'm not sure I could have done that with a regular, American-style joint.

I think we should all get together for a game sometime and take bong rips, but that's just me. And on a related note, I want to buy the Knicks Dynasty Box Set and get so bent that I actually believe those great games are happening live. That's a recipe for success right there.

Come to a game with these dudes. I got ripped the last time. I think I ranted on Jared Jeffries for an entire quarter while EnySpree and TMS were thinking, "Did this guy just smoke crack?!?" HAHA!!

a little old fart perspective: never saw that s**t till I was chilling for a little while in europe in the mid-70's. went to a clapton concert in a gymnasium in paris and hung with some students I met who rolled them all w/half-tobacco. it was a little nasty but ultimately pretty interesting effect.
SupremeCommander
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11/1/2007  9:37 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

That makes a lot of sense, for sure. I don't share that problem either, but you can see how it does burn better with tobacco and I never realized that until now (with your help). Personally, I use the mix if I have something to do but want to puff. You can roll a regular sized j and have it be a 50/50 mix instead of burning half of one and keeping it for later.

For example, I used to work as a reporter and if what I was covering sucked, I'd smoke on the way... I'd take it to the point where everything I did was interesting. I've also interviewed like that (and been hired from said interview) and attended sales meetings (to see if I and the rest of the department hit quota). I'm not sure I could have done that with a regular, American-style joint.

I think we should all get together for a game sometime and take bong rips, but that's just me. And on a related note, I want to buy the Knicks Dynasty Box Set and get so bent that I actually believe those great games are happening live. That's a recipe for success right there.

Come to a game with these dudes. I got ripped the last time. I think I ranted on Jared Jeffries for an entire quarter while EnySpree and TMS were thinking, "Did this guy just smoke crack?!?" HAHA!!

When I move back up to the area, I will without a doubt join in on the festivities. I'm in New Orleans at the moment, however, getting my masters.

Now, smoking the happy grass is a the preferred technique I employ when studying. Corporate governance seems like an intimidating topic, but with happy grass it is pretty interesting. Because EVERYTHING interests me in that state of mind. Plus, I couldn't find any ADD prescriptions.

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
SupremeCommander
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11/1/2007  9:39 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

That makes a lot of sense, for sure. I don't share that problem either, but you can see how it does burn better with tobacco and I never realized that until now (with your help). Personally, I use the mix if I have something to do but want to puff. You can roll a regular sized j and have it be a 50/50 mix instead of burning half of one and keeping it for later.

For example, I used to work as a reporter and if what I was covering sucked, I'd smoke on the way... I'd take it to the point where everything I did was interesting. I've also interviewed like that (and been hired from said interview) and attended sales meetings (to see if I and the rest of the department hit quota). I'm not sure I could have done that with a regular, American-style joint.

I think we should all get together for a game sometime and take bong rips, but that's just me. And on a related note, I want to buy the Knicks Dynasty Box Set and get so bent that I actually believe those great games are happening live. That's a recipe for success right there.

Come to a game with these dudes. I got ripped the last time. I think I ranted on Jared Jeffries for an entire quarter while EnySpree and TMS were thinking, "Did this guy just smoke crack?!?" HAHA!!

a little old fart perspective: never saw that s**t till I was chilling for a little while in europe in the mid-70's. went to a clapton concert in a gymnasium in paris and hung with some students I met who rolled them all w/half-tobacco. it was a little nasty but ultimately pretty interesting effect.

AWESOME! You saw Clapton at a small venue overseas? Awesome. I've smoked and listend to "Let it Rain" pretty much every day this week. In fact, I'll catch you guys later... time to jam out.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
BasketballJones
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11/1/2007  10:35 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by BasketballJones:

I'm glad to see that RemBee has helped return our focus where it belongs -- on the Knicks.

I wonder if the lover v. hater debates will ever end. It's really interesting how the board just fell into that mode after a while. I don't recall it always being like that. It mirrors so many aspects of society it's almost disturbing. Why do people insist on splitting everything up into these silly dichotomies? It's like political affiliations. People can be ignorant to what others say while focusing attention on the label. Haters are anti-american. Lovers are loyal and true. It has frustrated a lot of good conversation. Granted, I still see enough good bball talk that I don't think the board has been ruined. But I wouldn't mind seeing all the lover / hater talk put to rest. No offense to anyone who is passionate about it.

They're just words. It's part of the natural human tendency to want to categorize things. Then some of us make a joke of it and wind up perpetuating it.

I think we need different labels, like "The Sharks" and "The Jets" just to get away from the sheer monotony of it all.

https:// It's not so hard.
codeunknown
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11/1/2007  10:54 PM
Rembee, in your haste to defend your flawed definition of a "fan," I think you may have touched on an interesting point; that some posters have developed into "fans" of ultimateknicks.com. I certainly have. And I'd claim the same for you although ironically we might disagree here again on what it means to be a "fan." Forgive me for this but I'd maintain that you are the equivalent of an ultimateknicks.com "hater" just as Islesfan is a "hater" of the Knicks even though both of you are unequivocally fans of both by the criteria of time sacrificed, passion shown, and a professed or inferred stake in the future well-being of the enterprises.

Its obvious that ultimateknicks.com posting is not the most accurate marker of Knick fanhood, regardless of the technicalities of the definition. Many of us, haters and lovers alike, enjoy talking a little "Alba" every now and then and, as we've seen, such threads can wonderfully boost the old post count. To me, however, its equally unclear whether a correlation exists between the hater/lover designations and money spent on the Knicks, total games watched, number of old Knick playoff tapes revisited, vigor of "de-fense" chants started or frequency of prayers said. The above serve as just a sample of the variable constellation of components that make-up "Knick fans" and I don't think its productive to simplify the diagnosis into "rooting for the team to win now." In fact, that criterion is as weak as any if you consider the extreme where a team needs to lose a game in order to play a weaker playoff opponent and enhance its odds of progressing further. A similar argument can be made for rooting against a financially hamstrung, mediocre team for longer periods of time, even full seasons, to draft top upcoming players. "Rooting against the team" occurs in long-standing "fans" only when the perceived odds of success, by acquiring that top pick or selecting better management, are greater than those of the verifiably pathetic status quo. So you can argue the details and maybe even the fanhood, but not on the grounds of "winniing now."
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
eViL
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11/1/2007  11:07 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by BasketballJones:

I'm glad to see that RemBee has helped return our focus where it belongs -- on the Knicks.

I wonder if the lover v. hater debates will ever end. It's really interesting how the board just fell into that mode after a while. I don't recall it always being like that. It mirrors so many aspects of society it's almost disturbing. Why do people insist on splitting everything up into these silly dichotomies? It's like political affiliations. People can be ignorant to what others say while focusing attention on the label. Haters are anti-american. Lovers are loyal and true. It has frustrated a lot of good conversation. Granted, I still see enough good bball talk that I don't think the board has been ruined. But I wouldn't mind seeing all the lover / hater talk put to rest. No offense to anyone who is passionate about it.

They're just words. It's part of the natural human tendency to want to categorize things. Then some of us make a joke of it and wind up perpetuating it.

I think we need different labels, like "The Sharks" and "The Jets" just to get away from the sheer monotony of it all.

HAHA!! I see the humor in it. I know you do for sure. And that's the only saving grace to the "war". I definitely don't take it seriously, but when I see topics like this -- I realize that some people do take it very seriously. Sharks and Jets is cool. But we can also diversify and make it really interesting, how about: The Turnbull A.C.s, The Lizzies, The Rogues, The Orphans, The Baseball Furies, The Punks and The Gramercy Riffs.

check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
BasketballJones
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11/1/2007  11:13 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by BasketballJones:

I'm glad to see that RemBee has helped return our focus where it belongs -- on the Knicks.

I wonder if the lover v. hater debates will ever end. It's really interesting how the board just fell into that mode after a while. I don't recall it always being like that. It mirrors so many aspects of society it's almost disturbing. Why do people insist on splitting everything up into these silly dichotomies? It's like political affiliations. People can be ignorant to what others say while focusing attention on the label. Haters are anti-american. Lovers are loyal and true. It has frustrated a lot of good conversation. Granted, I still see enough good bball talk that I don't think the board has been ruined. But I wouldn't mind seeing all the lover / hater talk put to rest. No offense to anyone who is passionate about it.

They're just words. It's part of the natural human tendency to want to categorize things. Then some of us make a joke of it and wind up perpetuating it.

I think we need different labels, like "The Sharks" and "The Jets" just to get away from the sheer monotony of it all.

HAHA!! I see the humor in it. I know you do for sure. And that's the only saving grace to the "war". I definitely don't take it seriously, but when I see topics like this -- I realize that some people do take it very seriously. Sharks and Jets is cool. But we can also diversify and make it really interesting, how about: The Turnbull A.C.s, The Lizzies, The Rogues, The Orphans, The Baseball Furies, The Punks and The Gramercy Riffs.

That would be awesome. It also has the benefit of not being binary.
https:// It's not so hard.
Papabear
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11/1/2007  11:26 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by oohah:
Damn You Rembee, you just don't understand! You can root against your team and be a fan as long as you know for a fact that the next regime will undoubtedly be better!

You hit the nail on the head, ooh.

As soon as Isiah is gone we will rebuild, so it’s ok to root against the team, right? But then, what if the next regime doesn’t. Or the one after that. When do you start rooting for the team?

When do you come to the realization that you aren’t a fan?




[Edited by - rembee76 on 11-01-2007 1:04 PM]

Papabear Says

These guys are not fans. All they do all day is vent hate. You made a good point about what if the next person that comes in don't do as good as Zeke. Do they continue to hate. Ive been on other forums and you have haters or angry fans but nothing like here. I mean no offense to owners of this forum. All I can say is that someone on this forum was hating on another forum and he thought that he could get away with what he was saying and he got the boot. I don't come on here as much as I did because of all the hate and doom and gloom.

Papabear

Papabear
Papabear
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11/1/2007  11:34 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by nykshaknbake:

It's not the win total you project that makes you a fan or not. I predict that the SPurs will win 60 games and I'm not a SPurs fan.

It's that you hate the Knicks, stupid.
Posted by islesfan:

"True" fan kam, predicts 39 wins.

The ultimate Knicks "Hater" islesfan predicts 38 wins.

Go figure.

This is supposed to be the point of the entire thread?

Why do people think that the Spurs will win 60 games?

Because they're a great team, well run, well coached with great players who complement each other.

Why do people think that the Knicks will be a sub .500 team?

Because they're not a very good team, their management is incompetent, their coach is below average and they don't have good team players who complement each other.

But if you can actually see these things and acknowledge them, that makes you a hater and not a fan. If you can see them but refuse to acknowledge them, it makes you delusional.

I'm a fan of the Knicks, have been since I was a little kid, but I'm not a fan of the present management who has made this team a complete laughingstock and I want competent management.

When did demanding competency become such an unfair request? In how many other aspects of your life do you accept this magnitude of incompetency? But for some reason some people think that it's unreasonable to be disgruntled about what's going on with a team we love.

Papabear Says

Why don't you become a Spurs fan. Then your blood pressure will drop.

Papabear



[Edited by - Papabear on 11-01-2007 11:39 PM]
Papabear
BasketballJones
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11/1/2007  11:41 PM
Posted by eViL:

Sharks and Jets is cool. But we can also diversify and make it really interesting, how about: The Turnbull A.C.s, The Lizzies, The Rogues, The Orphans, The Baseball Furies, The Punks and The Gramercy Riffs.

You know I've never seen that movie? I gotta see that movie. I might have to buy it on DVD.

https:// It's not so hard.
eViL
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11/1/2007  11:56 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by eViL:

Sharks and Jets is cool. But we can also diversify and make it really interesting, how about: The Turnbull A.C.s, The Lizzies, The Rogues, The Orphans, The Baseball Furies, The Punks and The Gramercy Riffs.

You know I've never seen that movie? I gotta see that movie. I might have to buy it on DVD.

It's a classic. You should definitely check it out. By the way, in the past I know we've both referenced Spinal Tap. That DVD is a classic if you've haven't checked it out. The opening menu screen is HILARIOUS!!

Now that you got me on this history kick, I've been cruising the old pages (500's-600's). I just saw a thread about a proposed trade of Sweetney and Kurt Thomas for Jerry Stackhouse and Washington's #5 pick (which eventually went to Dallas). There were people saying, "bad deal for NY" -- HAHA!!!
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
TMS
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11/2/2007  12:31 AM
Posted by Papabear:
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by oohah:
Damn You Rembee, you just don't understand! You can root against your team and be a fan as long as you know for a fact that the next regime will undoubtedly be better!

You hit the nail on the head, ooh.

As soon as Isiah is gone we will rebuild, so it’s ok to root against the team, right? But then, what if the next regime doesn’t. Or the one after that. When do you start rooting for the team?

When do you come to the realization that you aren’t a fan?




[Edited by - rembee76 on 11-01-2007 1:04 PM]

Papabear Says

These guys are not fans. All they do all day is vent hate. You made a good point about what if the next person that comes in don't do as good as Zeke. Do they continue to hate. Ive been on other forums and you have haters or angry fans but nothing like here. I mean no offense to owners of this forum. All I can say is that someone on this forum was hating on another forum and he thought that he could get away with what he was saying and he got the boot. I don't come on here as much as I did because of all the hate and doom and gloom.

Papabear

& the racism... don't forget about the racism.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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11/2/2007  12:33 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

At the end of the day, we root for a team to prevent us from killing everybody at work, or in our house, or on the train, etc.

that's never stopped me before.

that's right, i'm korean & i like to shoot guns... fear me bitches.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
eViL
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11/2/2007  12:46 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by EnySpree:

At the end of the day, we root for a team to prevent us from killing everybody at work, or in our house, or on the train, etc.

that's never stopped me before.

that's right, i'm korean & i like to shoot guns... fear me bitches.

Is it too soon for me to make a Virginia Tech joke? ...yeah, probably. HAHA!!

[Edited by - eViL on 11-02-2007 01:13 AM]
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
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