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Instead of Bashing Marbury and The Knicks, Why Not Simply Take A Vacation?
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nyk4ever
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7/24/2007  9:38 AM
Posted by misterearl:

nyk4ever - there are some excellent values to Amsterdam this week

Take a one-way ticket Earl.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
AUTOADVERT
misterearl
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7/24/2007  9:40 AM
nyk4ever - It's my thread and I'm sticking to it.

Thank you for playing.
once a knick always a knick
nyk4ever
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7/24/2007  9:42 AM
Posted by misterearl:

nyk4ever - It's my thread and I'm sticking to it.

Thank you for playing.

No problem, Earl. The usual bait and run tactics work to a T.

I bet you felt the team showed 'tangible results' in 2003 when Mike Sweetney, Lampe and Frank Williams lit up summer-league too.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bippity10
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7/24/2007  9:42 AM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by misterearl:

Nobody is defending Layden here, but 25 wins... come on. Not to mention that Isiah coincidentally took over right before the easiest 4 game stretch of the entire season. I suppose he gets credit for those wins, even though they were Layden's players.

Solace - Scott Layden did not have a single productive player transaction during his tenure. The players he inherited did the heavy lifting. Head Coach Don Chaney did the best he could with what he was given. In retrospect, he didn't do such a bad job.

Scott Layden did nothing.

In retrospect, I think Chaney did a fair job also. At the time, I hated Chaney's rotations, but in retrospect, I think they were mandated by Layden.

After years of arguing on Chaney's behalf, finally an admission. Apology accepted. Like I said then, and will say again, when you look at how hard that team played on a nightly basis. And you look at the talent level and the results they got, compared to the results we are currently getting with more talent. Chaney wasn't as bad as he was made out to be.
I just hope that people will like me
misterearl
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7/24/2007  9:51 AM
nyk4ever - what are you talking about?

No one has made the discussion personal until you started. What is your problem?

Just for the record nyk, Mike Sweetney, Lampe and Frank Williams did not "light up" 2003 Summer League. Nor did they demonstrate the diverse skill-sets of Wilson Chandler, Demetris Nichols and Randolph Morris.

If you have a problem with me, we can take this outside

once a knick always a knick
nyk4ever
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7/24/2007  10:02 AM
Posted by misterearl:


No one has made the discussion personal until you started. What is your problem?

Was that before or after you told me to take a vacation to Amsterdam?

Thats what I thought..
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
misterearl
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7/24/2007  10:09 AM
Let's take a Closer Look

Mike Sweetney v Randolph Morris

first rounder versus bonus late-season jack-in-the-box acquisition. Sweetney, a decent college player had soft hands and a big butt to carve space. Unfortunately his squatty body could not stay away from the food court and the weight is still a major problem. Besides, Georgetown fans don't travel well.

Randolph Morris played for the intense Tubby Smith in the always-intense SEC. He is 6'10 and can play both center and forward. Excellent footwork, pedigree and willingness to learn.

Advantage - Rupp Arena

Maciej Lampe v Wilson Chandler

The fans loved Lampe on draft night. I was one of them. It was downhill from there. Although he had a nice outside shot he was simply too slow to get there.

Wilson Chandler runs the floor and can handle the ball iin moderate traffic like a guard. When wilson busted a few three's my heart started to flutter. Did I mention he's 6'8 220?

Advantage - Polish Sausage

Lavor Postell v Demetris Nichols

Postell was a second rounder with promise and a big ego. Not much NBA rday game.

Nichols shooting percentage increased every single year at Syracuse and he went 41 percent from three. His facial expression does not change. I like that in a sniper.

Advantage - Le Grande Orange
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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7/24/2007  10:10 AM
nyk4ever - take a chill pill dude

it's only basketball
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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7/24/2007  10:10 AM
... and this is only entertainment
once a knick always a knick
RemBee76
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7/24/2007  10:16 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Rem, just to let you know, my stance is this. I do think the fans have patience to go through a rebuild, and I know, b/c they are still attending games through these losing seasons

I respect your opinion, Allanfan, and while I once shared it, I have a tendency to lose faith in an opinion when there is little to no evidence that backs it. MSG at times last season was a ghost town, and the people who did show up went to boo the team. Chicago continued its string of sold out games through the early phases of its rebuild (I don’t know about after the second season, but I suspect it continued). I went to a game there in those early days, and I can’t imagine that the fervent energy and support from the fans was significantly less than it was when Jordan was on the court. Is it because they rebuilt the “right” way? Under Krause, I don’t see how one could hold that opinion.
this has been an ugly as heck rebuild.

We’ll see how it works out for Portland, but I can’t think of a rebuild that was pretty. No, Isiah’s plan to rebuild while contending, attempting to use Indiana as a model, has not had results in the win column. Its failed, frankly. But we know for sure that rebuilding the only way this team could, sitting tight while our contracts came off the books, would have resulted in even fewer wins.

People have some fantasy of blowing up the team so that it rises like a phoenix majestically over the city of New York to capture former glory. The reality is very different. First, blowing up a team of contracts no one else would trade for was simply impossible. Who was going to give us a nice ending contract plus a few draft picks for Allan Houston? Second, rebuilds are ugly, and I don’t share your faith that this fan base would sit tight if things didn’t all go as planned. We know how Frye was panned as a bust in his second year. What if we had picked Bynum, or even Bogut? Bynum wilted under the spotlight in LA, who is to say he would have done better in NY? Bogut’s numbers have been unimpressive so far (Eddy Curry had better numbers at a younger age the first year he got comparable minutes) I can already hear the Bippity’s wailing about a 6-11 guy only getting 7 rebounds. And don’t even talk about his defense.

I am not saying I wouldn’t have preferred to go in this direction, I wanted to rebuild since 2000. But I don’t think it would have been pretty, and I don’t share your belief that Dolan is dead wrong in thinking it is too big a risk in a market that feels it is entitled by birthright to wins.

So I don’t take the young potential on this squad for granted, and I’m patient enough to see how it works out. Its patently ridiculous to suggest, as some bone-heads here have, that this is because I am satisfied with the current state of the Knicks. Its because I understand how long it takes to build something, and yes, I do see progress.





Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
Nalod
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7/24/2007  10:16 AM
This is all too intangable to compare Layden vs. Isiah.

Why?

Layden made his big starphuch move and lets be real, if Dice was healhty and H20, the team had some nice potential in the east that year.

Also one must consider the owner holds the purse strings so in a way the GM is following the owners directive. After Dice blew out the knee Layden was in a lock down pattern and was not making any deals. IT would appear that by letting the contracts run out and not taking on new ones we might have appeared to be heading towards a rebuild.

The teams played hard but the half season when Layden was fired the garden became restless and was dying! That was unacceptable. The Marbury trade was sitting on Laydens desk and maybe he was fired for not pulling the trigger on it? Isiah was bought in and told to do and make it work? hard to say in retrospect.

If the above qualifies me as a "laydenLover" then so beit. Its silly, but all I am doing is projecting that we were GETTING into a position where we might have been able to clear things out and been able to also tank to get some lotto picks and clear cap room when the bad contracts started coming down.

Question is would we have been in a better position 4 years later if we held to that plan? If that was indeed the plan.

I don't think anyone can answer, but I doubt Anderson, Isley, spoon or orthella would still be our core team today. I also think those players were a mistake but there were circumstances that led to bad roster changes. One was Glen Rice's talent dropping off the face of the planet in a matter of months! The other was keeping both h20 and spree. One should have been moved! Regarding h20's contract, its my belief that there was a handshake deal in place long before he opted out that would pay him top dollar with checketts offering that when he signed here. This was precap days mind you! The knicks might be stupid but they have a history of fulfilling promises even if its not good for the team. H20 was one of those. I have to believe this because nothing else regarding that contract even comes close to making sense!

Regarding Isiah, we all know Dolan allowed him to spend his way out of the Layden roster and do the impossible.

Next season is next season. As the GM, he has 55 wins in the last two seasons. That sucks. Forget the rest, it sucks. 55games and he gets extended.

ITs the owner that drives this thing. No GM can spend money with their approval.

So its Nedyals take that while Layden was no prince, his firing at mid season was not so much for the team (who fires a gm mid year???) but to hire Isiah was a Starphuch (it worked to breath life into the garden!) and MAYBE allowed for Dolan to bring in Marbury whom he thought Isiah was the only one that could control and mentor him. Marbury would have walked all over Layden.

Thus, the Isiah-Marbury marriage was Dolan's concoction and why he is not held accountable (why he got extended)for that one. It could also be said LB was also a Dolan Starphuch.

I also have to believe this otherwise what GM would NOT get fired for such miss steps? I give Isiah the same amount of credit or discredit I afforded Layden as Knick GM's get paid a big amount of money to work for a starstruckPhuched owner.

Once again the knicks look better on paper than the year before for the upcoming season.
islesfan
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7/24/2007  10:17 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Let's take a Closer Look

Mike Sweetney v Randolph Morris

first rounder versus bonus late-season jack-in-the-box acquisition. Sweetney, a decent college player had soft hands and a big butt to carve space. Unfortunately his squatty body could not stay away from the food court and the weight is still a major problem. Besides, Georgetown fans don't travel well.

Randolph Morris played for the intense Tubby Smith in the always-intense SEC. He is 6'10 and can play both center and forward. Excellent footwork, pedigree and willingness to learn.

Advantage - Rupp Arena

Maciej Lampe v Wilson Chandler

The fans loved Lampe on draft night. I was one of them. It was downhill from there. Although he had a nice outside shot he was simply too slow to get there.

Wilson Chandler runs the floor and can handle the ball iin moderate traffic like a guard. When wilson busted a few three's my heart started to flutter. Did I mention he's 6'8 220?

Advantage - Polish Sausage

Lavor Postell v Demetris Nichols

Postell was a second rounder with promise and a big ego. Not much NBA rday game.

Nichols shooting percentage increased every single year at Syracuse and he went 41 percent from three. His facial expression does not change. I like that in a sniper.

Advantage - Le Grande Orange

Wow, the advantage keeps going to guys who haven't even played in the NBA yet. That's pretty stupid.

Oh I forgot, the tangible results were evident in Las Vegas Summer League. LMAO
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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7/24/2007  10:24 AM
Sweetney, Lampe, Postell and even Pete Mickeal looked good for the Knicks in Summer League.

That's how dumb it is to say that summer league produced tangible results.

Carry on with your regularly scheduled Lovefest.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
RemBee76
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7/24/2007  10:28 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Oh I forgot, the tangible results were evident in Las Vegas Summer League. LMAO

Again, Isles, you can't see the forest for the trees. You want to concentrate on one statement while ignoring the obvious point.

This team has more young potential on its roster than at any time in my memory, potential that did start to come together last year. Its been held back by dead-weight veterans, rental coaches, injuries, and the fact that they simply have not yet had the time that all teams need to come together. But it is emerging, and yes, summer league was one more encouraging sign.

You don't think that will ever translate to wins, fine, that’s clear in every venomous post you write. Allow some to disagree with that opinion.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
Nalod
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7/24/2007  10:28 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Let's take a Closer Look

Mike Sweetney v Randolph Morris

first rounder versus bonus late-season jack-in-the-box acquisition. Sweetney, a decent college player had soft hands and a big butt to carve space. Unfortunately his squatty body could not stay away from the food court and the weight is still a major problem. Besides, Georgetown fans don't travel well.

Randolph Morris played for the intense Tubby Smith in the always-intense SEC. He is 6'10 and can play both center and forward. Excellent footwork, pedigree and willingness to learn.

Advantage - Rupp Arena

Maciej Lampe v Wilson Chandler

The fans loved Lampe on draft night. I was one of them. It was downhill from there. Although he had a nice outside shot he was simply too slow to get there.

Wilson Chandler runs the floor and can handle the ball iin moderate traffic like a guard. When wilson busted a few three's my heart started to flutter. Did I mention he's 6'8 220?

Advantage - Polish Sausage

Lavor Postell v Demetris Nichols

Postell was a second rounder with promise and a big ego. Not much NBA rday game.

Nichols shooting percentage increased every single year at Syracuse and he went 41 percent from three. His facial expression does not change. I like that in a sniper.

Advantage - Le Grande Orange


Earl, While our friend Isles had little table manners, his point about our rookies having not logged a single NBA minute yet is true.

I think we all hope these guys pan out or at least get a chance to play.

islesfan
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7/24/2007  10:35 AM
Young potential what? Stars? Starters? Or backup role players?

When did they start to come together? Are you talking about when the Knicks played 35 games against the softest schedule that you're ever going to see and played barely over .500 ball? How was that attributable to young potential when the "dead weight veterans", like Starbury, were the ones who carried the team?

Yeah, it's all because I'm supposed to be this hateful venomous person that I don't believe that summer league will translate to wins. Forget the fact that there is absolutely zero correlation between summer league success, individual or team, and actual NBA success.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Solace
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7/24/2007  10:43 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

After years of arguing on Chaney's behalf, finally an admission. Apology accepted. Like I said then, and will say again, when you look at how hard that team played on a nightly basis. And you look at the talent level and the results they got, compared to the results we are currently getting with more talent. Chaney wasn't as bad as he was made out to be.

Hahaha. Well the truth is, 37 wins was pretty good with that roster. I felt like we couldn't close out teams, which I put on the coach, but maybe it was that our 'stars' just were getting a little older and tired at the end of games; these being the same stars that used to shine at the end of games. So, yes, ultimately I think I was wrong on that one.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
RemBee76
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7/24/2007  10:46 AM
Posted by islesfan:
When did they start to come together? Are you talking about when the Knicks played 35 games against the softest schedule that you're ever going to see and played barely over .500 ball? How was that attributable to young potential when the "dead weight veterans", like Starbury, were the ones who carried the team?

The Knicks had plenty of quality wins during that stretch. They were, in fact, undone by their consistent inability to get up for teams they should have beaten. Marbury carried the team at times, as did Curry, Crawford, and Lee, with meaningful cameos from Balkman.
Yeah, it's all because I'm supposed to be this hateful venomous person

Well, until you start looking at the team in an unbiased way instead of maniacally persuing a hateful agenda...yes, you are a hateful venomous person
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
Bippity10
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7/24/2007  10:48 AM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bippity10:

After years of arguing on Chaney's behalf, finally an admission. Apology accepted. Like I said then, and will say again, when you look at how hard that team played on a nightly basis. And you look at the talent level and the results they got, compared to the results we are currently getting with more talent. Chaney wasn't as bad as he was made out to be.

So, yes, ultimately I think I was wrong on that one.

You left out "once again"
I just hope that people will like me
Solace
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7/24/2007  10:50 AM
Posted by RemBee76:

The Knicks had plenty of quality wins during that stretch. They were, in fact, undone by their consistent inability to get up for teams they should have beaten.

Here's the problem. Your view is that the Knicks lost to teams they should've beaten. However, an alternate view might be that during an easy schedule, those teams that are in the same boat as the Knicks looked at the Knicks as a team THEY should beat. The thing the lovers fail to realize is while we go and lick our chops when we face a team like Bobcats, Hawks, etc... those same teams go and lick their chops when they see the Knicks on the schedule.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Instead of Bashing Marbury and The Knicks, Why Not Simply Take A Vacation?

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