Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by nixluva:


They need an inside presence and not just anybody. Someone who will force teams to double the post. As it is they're going to have to make a trade for what they need.

they don't need someone that forces double teams. they just need someone to get easy high% baskets. teams don't double team sheed yet he's good enough in the post to help detroit win a title and come close to winning another one.

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by nixluva:


They need an inside presence and not just anybody. Someone who will force teams to double the post. As it is they're going to have to make a trade for what they need.

they don't need someone that forces double teams. they just need someone to get easy high% baskets. teams don't double team sheed yet he's good enough in the post to help detroit win a title and come close to winning another one.

Posted by Bonn1997:

You're speaking in generalities and not being specific. They used cap space to sign Ben Wallace and that was a good short term move. However, simply having cap space and no real FA's to sign with that cap space renders the cap space useless.

That's not true. You can make trades without the salaries matching if you're under the cap.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by nixluva:


They need an inside presence and not just anybody. Someone who will force teams to double the post. As it is they're going to have to make a trade for what they need.

they don't need someone that forces double teams. they just need someone to get easy high% baskets. teams don't double team sheed yet he's good enough in the post to help detroit win a title and come close to winning another one.

I agree with that. It would open their offense if they added a role player like Shareef, Gooden, Wilcox, Blount, McDyess, or Kaman. They could get these players while keeping their versatile young players.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Or they could go after Pau, JO, or KG and (unlike us) still have A LOT of pieces left to work with after the trade. Or they could go for someone in between those levels like Antoine Jamison. The idea that they won't address their one need with all their assets but we'll address our many needs with minimal assets is a stretch (to put it politely).

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by nixluva:


They need an inside presence and not just anybody. Someone who will force teams to double the post. As it is they're going to have to make a trade for what they need.

they don't need someone that forces double teams. they just need someone to get easy high% baskets. teams don't double team sheed yet he's good enough in the post to help detroit win a title and come close to winning another one.

I agree with that. It would open their offense if they added a role player like Shareef, Gooden, Wilcox, Blount, McDyess, or Kaman. They could get these players while keeping their versatile young players.

I'm sorry but I can't agree that adding one of these guys is gonna make the Bulls a Finals contender. I think you're overrating what these guys can do and underrating the competition in the playoffs.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Or they could go after Pau, JO, or KG and (unlike us) still have A LOT of pieces left to work with after the trade. Or they could go for someone in between those levels like Antoine Jamison. The idea that they won't address their one need with all their assets but we'll address our many needs with minimal assets is a stretch (to put it politely).

Now we're back to the real choices at hand. The thing is that the Bulls are in a weaker negotiating position now, since these teams KNOW that the Bulls desparately need what they have in order to have a chance to advance past a team like Detroit. If Memphis was already asking for Deng, that's not gonna change now. Each one of those teams is gonna be getting offers from other teams for these players and they see this as a chance to start fresh and they won't just take garbage for their only valuable trade chip.

The power you have in negotiating has more to do with how good a negotiator the GM is. We already know Paxson is great at that since he got 4 draft picks from Isiah for his lazy center. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on whether a role player with a good post presence could significantly help the young, already 50 win Bulls' team.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by nixluva:


They need an inside presence and not just anybody. Someone who will force teams to double the post. As it is they're going to have to make a trade for what they need.

they don't need someone that forces double teams. they just need someone to get easy high% baskets. teams don't double team sheed yet he's good enough in the post to help detroit win a title and come close to winning another one.

I agree with that. It would open their offense if they added a role player like Shareef, Gooden, Wilcox, Blount, McDyess, or Kaman. They could get these players while keeping their versatile young players.

I'm sorry but I can't agree that adding one of these guys is gonna make the Bulls a Finals contender. I think you're overrating what these guys can do and underrating the competition in the playoffs.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Or they could go after Pau, JO, or KG and (unlike us) still have A LOT of pieces left to work with after the trade. Or they could go for someone in between those levels like Antoine Jamison. The idea that they won't address their one need with all their assets but we'll address our many needs with minimal assets is a stretch (to put it politely).

Now we're back to the real choices at hand. The thing is that the Bulls are in a weaker negotiating position now, since these teams KNOW that the Bulls desparately need what they have in order to have a chance to advance past a team like Detroit. If Memphis was already asking for Deng, that's not gonna change now. Each one of those teams is gonna be getting offers from other teams for these players and they see this as a chance to start fresh and they won't just take garbage for their only valuable trade chip.

And us adding Kapono, Carroll, Miller, isn't going to bring us any closer to a title either. Heck we probably wouldn't even get to 49wins like the Bulls did this yr with such additions. You're babbling just to babble. Bulls have a better future END OF STORY!, this particular topic just needs to take a different course. A federal court judge wouldn't have given you the time of day for you to present your case to him.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-14-2007 10:38 AM]

Posted by BlueSeats:

This is great. Since finishing our 33 win season I've been educated that we're in a better position than the Bulls and the Mavs. At this rate I'll expect us to be better than the Spurs, Suns and Pistons as early as next week.

I think you're overrating what these guys can do and underrating the competition

Posted by franco12:

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by TrueBlue:

And us adding Kapono, Carroll, Miller, isn't going to bring us any closer to a title either. Heck we probably wouldn't even get to 49wins like the Bulls did this yr with such additions. You're babbling just to babble. Bulls have a better future END OF STORY!, this particular topic just needs to take a different course. A federal court judge wouldn't have given you the time of day for you to present your case to him.

You're entitled to your opinion. You like the Bulls future prospects and I like the Knicks. We won't know for a while yet, but we'll see how things shake out. I think both Pax and Zeke have work to do in order to get their teams to the level of Finals contention.
You already know that I believe the Knicks are a playoff team despite what happened this year. Right now the Bulls are ahead of the Pace that the Knicks are at, but things can change very quickly in the NBA. Each GM has some options available to them and we'll see who can make the best move for their team. If Isiah decides to stand pat, then he's likely taking a different path. One that is long term in nature. He'd be preparing for 2009/10. I don't think Paxson can take that approach having added Ben Wallace and reached the 2nd rd. If he makes a lesser deal for a lower tier PF, then I don't like their chances of advancing. If he makes a deal for a big name, then I think he's gonna have to give up a good young player like Deng and I don't think he wants to do that. He's in a tough spot.

OK- I think I see your thinking- your statement is this:

Because Isiah is going to be taking a long term build approach to the team, keying in on 2010 as his make or break time, and Paxson has already laid out his cards and has to win now, that the Knicks are more likely to be able to build a contender than the bulls.

The source of the term is a quotation in an October 17, 2004, New York Times Magazine article by writer Ron Suskind, quoting an unnamed aide to George W. Bush:

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."