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The Key Is To Build Around Curry...
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bobs3304
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4/20/2007  3:27 PM
Ha, that's b/c New York is a breeding ground for malcontents.



DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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newyorknewyork
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4/20/2007  3:30 PM
Posted by misterearl:

why is a 24 year old guy who went for 19 and 7 treated like a criminal?

Eddy Curry is three years away from his prime years

sheesh

[Edited by - misterearl on 04-19-2007 7:54 PM]

Because of how much potential the guy has. He has the potential to be a guy who can lead us to a championship by talent and physical ability. Thats why fans will be hard on him. Because if Curry was who a lot of us reasonably wanted him to be which he is well cappable of being. We would be a contender.

Bigbeast - great post and I agree. The reason why people got picky about Ewing was the fact that we were so close to winning championships only to fail. So of course knick fans had to rationalize that if Ewing was more clutch that would be the difference, If Ewing would stop taking so many jumpers that would be the difference, etc...

Anyway I don't expect Curry to be a great shotblocker or defender. But he has to go after rebounds hard. He has to cut his T.Os. He has to pass out of the post more consistantly. And him comming to camp in great shape will definatly help him do those things. We need Malik Rose or Cato one of our vets to ride him all summer. Who is the vet that Curry respects on the team the most??
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martin
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4/20/2007  3:34 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by misterearl:

why is a 24 year old guy who went for 19 and 7 treated like a criminal?

Eddy Curry is three years away from his prime years

sheesh

[Edited by - misterearl on 04-19-2007 7:54 PM]

Because of how much potential the guy has. He has the potential to be a guy who can lead us to a championship by talent and physical ability. Thats why fans will be hard on him. Because if Curry was who a lot of us reasonably wanted him to be which he is well cappable of being. We would be a contender.

Bigbeast - great post and I agree. The reason why people got picky about Ewing was the fact that we were so close to winning championships only to fail. So of course knick fans had to rationalize that if Ewing was more clutch that would be the difference, If Ewing would stop taking so many jumpers that would be the difference, etc...

Anyway I don't expect Curry to be a great shotblocker or defender. But he has to go after rebounds hard. He has to cut his T.Os. He has to pass out of the post more consistantly. And him comming to camp in great shape will definatly help him do those things. We need Malik Rose or Cato one of our vets to ride him all summer. Who is the vet that Curry respects on the team the most??

Q
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bigbeast
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4/20/2007  4:20 PM
Posted by Masterplan:

good post, i do think (my fellow) NYers can be pretty arrogant, i.e. the "championship or failure" mindset with the Yankees. but i'm not sold on curry and think there are reasonable, uh, reasons to doubt him...
Posted by bigbeast:

at 24, Curry improved tremendously for last yr to this, why cant I believe that he will continue to improve on some of his weak areas?

did he improve any of his weak areas this last season? maybe he cut back on offensive fouls. but he didn't improve noticeable in passing, dealing with double teams, or rebounding. his defense is arguably worse.

i think the "he'll work on those things next year" argument is ludicrous. it's his job, i would hope he can find in his busy day to multitask just a little and work on a few different aspects.

Modest as his numbers were, he did improve on his rebounding #'s from last yr, improved his minutes and fouled less.

As far as improving on dealing with double-teams, well, I don't recall him getting doubled much in the past so this seemed to be a new phenomona to him. I expect to see improvement next year (he needs to start facing the double teams as to be able to see over the top. By him working on facing up, this should help.

He improved noticably in the paint in terms of scoring. He was more dominant than his numbers indicated. His presence, the attention he drew, the foul problems he caused, the ease in which he scored when singled-up the confidence, the few clutch plays.... His FG% even went up.

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
martin
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4/20/2007  4:35 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by Masterplan:

good post, i do think (my fellow) NYers can be pretty arrogant, i.e. the "championship or failure" mindset with the Yankees. but i'm not sold on curry and think there are reasonable, uh, reasons to doubt him...
Posted by bigbeast:

at 24, Curry improved tremendously for last yr to this, why cant I believe that he will continue to improve on some of his weak areas?

did he improve any of his weak areas this last season? maybe he cut back on offensive fouls. but he didn't improve noticeable in passing, dealing with double teams, or rebounding. his defense is arguably worse.

i think the "he'll work on those things next year" argument is ludicrous. it's his job, i would hope he can find in his busy day to multitask just a little and work on a few different aspects.

Modest as his numbers were, he did improve on his rebounding #'s from last yr, improved his minutes and fouled less.

As far as improving on dealing with double-teams, well, I don't recall him getting doubled much in the past so this seemed to be a new phenomona to him. I expect to see improvement next year (he needs to start facing the double teams as to be able to see over the top. By him working on facing up, this should help.

He improved noticably in the paint in terms of scoring. He was more dominant than his numbers indicated. His presence, the attention he drew, the foul problems he caused, the ease in which he scored when singled-up the confidence, the few clutch plays.... His FG% even went up.

per minute Curry's rebounding # went down from last year.
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kam77
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4/20/2007  4:42 PM
With the decreased fouling, Curry has been able to log more minutes. His conditioning before this season never allowed him to log so many minutes. Therefore a slight dip in per minute rebounding might be attributed to fatigue.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
djsunyc
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4/20/2007  4:45 PM
Posted by kam77:

With the decreased fouling, Curry has been able to log more minutes. His conditioning before this season never allowed him to log so many minutes. Therefore a slight dip in per minute rebounding might be attributed to fatigue.

at this point, it's debateable whether it was conditioning that kept him off the court more than a coach pulling him for defense. he kept saying he wanted to play through foul trouble last year (of which i feel was a result of him weighing 20-25 lbs more than he did this year). but 2 years ago, he was in 10X better shape than he is now but skiles didn't play him b/c of defense.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-20-2007 4:47 PM]
nixluva
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4/20/2007  4:57 PM
I still thnk that some of us are being too narrow in our view of whether Curry is a guy we can build around. As was mentioned there are more teams without a Tim Duncan type player than there are teams with one. Is Dirk's rise in some people's eyes merely a function of him carrying his team or does he simply have a good team around him that helps to make his job a HECK of a lot easier? Wilt, Kareem, Walton, Olajuwon, Shaq, Duncan etc. all had GOOD teams around them. Heck Willis Reed had an all time team around him. You simply MUST focus not just on the Center, but the team you build around him. I believe that despite his flaws, Curry will grow and get better, but we MUST improve the play of the team around him in order to get to the contending level.

The significance of Curry's age is that he along with the other young players on this team have time on their side right now. We have a chance to still build this thing and improve it from within as well. We just added Morris and will soon add another draft pick. I think we'll be in VERY good shape for years to come and Curry will be a huge centerpiece to this team.
misterearl
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4/20/2007  5:05 PM
>>Why do people mention 24 like it's young?

Because 24 IS young.

>>And he's progressed in most areas much slower than the average player.

Bonn - So Curry is not making enough progress to suit your taste?
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misterearl
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4/20/2007  5:12 PM
Please help me understand what the "average" NBA player consists of.
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misterearl
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4/20/2007  5:12 PM
bippity - how many rebounds per game do you expect from the center position?
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Bippity10
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4/20/2007  5:22 PM
Posted by kam77:

Post of the Year
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by Bippity10:

Misterearl: Once again, I'm assuming since you are a Knick fan that you understand NY. No way in hell you are bringing in a center that doesn't block shots, doesn't play d, and doesn't rebound and expect him not to get criticized. No one is treating him like a criminal. Get over yourself. They are questioning the idea of using him as the franchises key player. Why is that not okay?

Should our criticism be limited to Steve Francis and Jerome James?


Bip, I dont disagree with what your saying, but as a New Yorker, my problem is with the New York fans in general.

Ewing played D, blocked shots, rebounded and even scored 25-plus for more than a few seasons and still, Most (not all) but a heck of a lot still found room to unfairlry criticize him for taking too many jumpers, for not winning a championship, for not being clutch etc.....Never mind that he was the anchor on the teams that went to 2 finals. Never mind that he never had a chance to play with another perennial (sp) allstar while in his prime.

Houston was ripped unmercifully. He was one of the best shooters to ever wear a Knicks uni...as soon as he signed that 100 million dollar contract (dont blame Houston for signing) alll of a sudden, he's soft, he didn't look like he cared enough because he wasn't pounding his chest and running around like a maniac like Spree etc......The same with ARod, booed during his MVP yr.....Piazza, booed before he even had a chance to prove himself.....I know i'm getting a bit off topic but its about time NY fans get over themselves.

MS said that it would be different if Curry was a draft pick. Really! Why take out our anger and frustration on Curry for Isiahs blunder. For all of his faults, to quote the the great street poet Nas "it aint hard to tell" that Curry is by far the best prospect we've at manning the middle since #33. at 24, Curry improved tremendously for last yr to this, why cant I believe that he will continue to improve on some of his weak areas? In other words, its about time NYers stop trying to tear anything down that doesn't fit their perceptions or ideologies of what certain players should be and learn to adjust to what we have and build from there. Theres more than one way.



I agree with your post and I have no problem with people defending a player that is treated unfairly. But there are more ways to look at it than the "if you criticize you are defiling the player" point of view that some on this site have.

Ewing-Questioning Ewing's clutch play is silly in my view, but the guy never won a championship so at least it can be placed on the table. Nitpicking about jumpshots and passing out of the double teams for Patrick was a legit complaint(nitpicking) in my view but at least fair. There was nothing else to complain about.

Allan-Complaining about Allan's defense and ability to take it to the hoop was 100% fair. I complained about it every day, AND I LOVED THE GUY. Hated his style of play, biotched about his 1 dimensionality but appreciated who he was.

Curry-Calling him a bumb is out of line, because he isn't. But biotching about his rebounding, passing, defense, weight and the intelligence of building around a guy with so many flaws is completely fair. He doesn't do these things well right now so what's the complaint? Because he may do it in the future? Sure he may. But that isn't going to stop the biotching now. It's NY. If you can't take it, don't come to play here. IF you aren't on your game, playing your arse off every night you will be criticized. It will not change. No matter how many times Nixluva comes to your defense, it will not change. If you are the star player, and you come to camp out of shape and are not the hardest working player on the team you will be criticized. And the fact that NY fans keep coming on here and telling fans to be quiet about it blows my mind.

If someone comes on here and says Curry stinks, I am more than happy to say they are wrong. But if someone comes on and says Curry doesn't rebound, play d or stay in shape, where is the defense? Is it that some of us are tired of hearing the truth? The reason that fans complain so much about him, isn't because he can't do these things. It isn't that he is incapable. It's that to date, HE WON'T DO THESE THINGS. Fans will not applaud you for this.
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Bippity10
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4/20/2007  5:31 PM
There is a reason only a few players can succeed in NY. Because fans are relentless. The Yankees have won title after title because they alwyas strive to be the best. They never settle. George is always asking "where are my championships". Even when they stink. Even when they have no chance of winning, the bar is raised. The bottom line is winning no matter what. This is the way NY is. Stop complaining and accept it.

This is why it is imperative for Isiah to bring in players that are motivated by one thing.....Winning. Bringing in guys that need to be coddled and begged to hustle is not the way to make the crowd die down.

Sorry to say it, but until Curry gets off his asse nothing is going to change for him.
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BasketballJones
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4/20/2007  5:34 PM
^ This is why we need to get to work retraining these recalcitrant New York fans. Getting them to do the wave in the garden is a good start.
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misterearl
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4/20/2007  5:45 PM
>>Sorry to say it, but until Curry gets off his asse nothing is going to change for him.

c'mon, bipp - of course Eddy Curry can improve the weak points in his game. But to equate his lack of additional improvement with being lazy is totally uncalled for.

I would submit that his growth curve will continue. Perhpas not on the ascent that you feel measures up to his "potential" (however that is measured, but lemme ax you this, what center dominated Eddy Curry this season?


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misterearl
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4/20/2007  5:46 PM
The Knicks main problem is turnovers.
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newyorknewyork
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4/20/2007  6:18 PM
Posted by misterearl:

The Knicks main problem is turnovers.

And Curry is a HUGE part of that problem.

He averages more T.0 than any other center in the NBA. And he averages more T.Os than any other go to post player in the NBA other than Dwight Howard.

I would say we need a PG that can create easy shots for Curry consistantly so that Curry can be a finisher rather than be forced to have the ball in his hands so much. And Crawford is the best guard we have to do that.

Though I would also want Curry to be able to pass out of the post consistantly and so we could also work inside out.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 04-20-2007 6:19 PM]

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 04-20-2007 6:20 PM]
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bigbeast
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4/20/2007  6:19 PM
Bip- If nothing else, you are fair.

Regardless of Currys flaws, he can still be an intrical part (not necessarily the main piece)to complete the championship puzzle we've been trying to solve here in NY since the early 70's.


Jason Terry is a shoot-first, inconsistant-shooting-lead-guard and is one of the main cogs on a team favored to win it all. Terry just happens to have the right pieces along-side him which allows him to do what he does best to help win a chip. Its not about a team of individuals, its about a group of individuals that can form a legit team. A team that can compliment each other. Isiahs been reaching/searching for a plan since he got here. Currys presence gives him direction or a blueprint to build with. It can work with the right parts.


"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
bobs3304
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4/20/2007  6:27 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

Currys presence gives him direction or a blueprint to build with. It can work with the right parts.


amen.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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4/20/2007  6:32 PM
I'd just like to add that if our main cogs going forward are Crawford and Curry, then Collins might not be such a bad idea at PG.

Other than Curry improving, our BIGGEST weakness surrounds the 3 point line, call it the Allan Houston curse if you want -

We can't hit 3's, and we can't guard the 3.


*(personally I feel like getting rid of Marbury and Francis will take care of the turnovers)


If we could insert just one guy in that lineup who could be depended on to hit the 3, and 1 guy to guard the 3, we'd be gold.

Jefferies, Malik, and Lee for Kirilenko anyone???

Then just draft Bellinin or someone, and depend on him and Q?
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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