Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by BlueSeats:
The sort of language that Imus engaged in is on the verge of becoming mainstream in this society. That's the problem, and I contend that is because of the numbers of blacks who engage in it on a daily basis mores so than the occasional whites. To that you suggest it is driven by white media owners. Perhaps it is, but be that as it may, the language arose in some segment of "a" black community and is being promulgated by many prominent blacks on a daily basis. I don't see how that can be in dispute.
I agree that certain blacks can make themselves targets by engaging in other forms of bigotry. But there are important distinctions here between the use of chauvenistic or anti-gay language, for example, and use of the word "nigga." As a race, I think blacks are entitled to take that word, turn its original meaning on its head and exclude others from using it. Does its use prolong confusion and open the door for abuse by others? Sure. But, given the tainted history of the United States, the difference in this particular standard may be something everyone else should just have to live with. The other language, which victimizes people outside of that group, has no excuse at all.
I agree, of course, with your suggestion that black people should abstain from hateful language and that the subsequently greater taboo would facilite the end of the use of such language. But, I disagree with your concept of how "this is on the verge of becoming mainstream." I think your discussion of how "this language arose" is really problematic. Mainly because, while that language may have arisen in a segment of a black community, racism didn't. So, while halting the use of such language in black communities may curb the use of words like "ho," its not a given that the underlying racism will diminish. I know you're not writing a textbook, but, by not even mentioning the widespread racism that occurs without the use of explicit language (and that isn't initiated by black communities), the tone of the above paragragh (and that one only) seems to suggest that racism itself is somehow the fault of black people. Obviously, you don't feel that way, but the tone of the paragraph may be perceived in that fashion. You can't separate language, here, from an underlying racism, the degree of which is up for debate.
Wow. Call me naive, but it amazes me the way things can be interpreted. I can tell you this, I think some of you read things too closely and miss the larger picture in the process. And I don't say that lightly to you, code, because you're usually right there in the heart of the matter.
Be honest with me, is that how that paragraph really struck you on first read, or did you have to bend your head sideways, close one eye, and hold your breath for 3 minutes to see it that way?
Listen I'm a 40-something year old white guy who lives in a middle class, mixed race community. I don't watch or listen to a lot of "media" period, hate shock jocks, mostly listen to NPR, and don't spend a heck of a lot of time in "the hood," and STILL that language is not all that unfamiliar to me, mostly through what little "black" comedy I sometimes watch on TV. Where else would it be coming from? If I'm routinely exposed to it I can only imagine how commonplace it is to those who also follow hip-hop music and film.
Just where do you think this stuff is being popularized?
And herein lies the danger of it. Some have lamented the passing of days when you knew who was racist and who wasn't by who would talk like that. But when it becomes commonplace, and considered hip, insider, humorous, whatever, then it's sufficiently ordinary that it might be used even by those who are NOT racist just to be part of the crowd and speak the language.
It does confuse the issue, and lessens the impropriety in the first place, IMHO. As I said before, that probably doesn't apply to an erudite man like Imus, who clearly knows better, but it does for so, so many of the younger generation, of both races, who are bred on this stuff.
My point in all this is that whatever gains one may think they are making by raising a fuss about Imus (not saying they shouldn't) I believe it's effect pales in comparison to, as a for instance, guys like P Diddy, Suge Knight, Jay Z, etc, pulling albums from their label that are similarly derogatory. That I believe would set a much stronger tone with a far greater ripple effect.
I simply find it a less efficient means to an end to go after less frequent impropriety by whites than the far more common impropriety by blacks. If you want to root it out you have to nip it in the bud. AND, it's a lot easier for the prominent blacks who have power to regulate themselves than to try to shut down whitey.
So why put a priority on the more difficult and less efficient road?
Let me make an abstract analogy that will surely fail for those who want it to, but try to work with it. Lets say we members of UK collectively decided that Knick "haters" were spreading venom and setting a dangerous precedent for the community of this board. What would be a more effective means to that end, having he haters self-regulate their own behavior, or go wild on guys like nixluva when once every two weeks he goes off about some player disappointing him and wanting him to be traded?
) and topics such as this are very informative when you get as many differing opinions as we get on this forum.