Heat won because of Shaq----Trade
Lakers won because of Shaq and Kobe ( Signings and trades)
Pistons (Weed, Hamilton, Billups,Big Ben (signings and trades)
Bulls and Spurs were the most recent winners that drafted Franchise players that won...

Ill leave you with this

Bulls drafted about 5 franchise players since Michael..
Clippers has drafted "franchise players" since their inception..
NJ,Toronto,Milwaukee,Orlando,Washington,Atlanta,Charlotte,Denver Portland,Seattle,GS..etc all for years thought the holy grail was the lottery....

>>Are you saying thats its pathetic Isiah cant put a team together that wins more than that Knick team of 3 years ago that has 8 guys no longer in the league?

Nope

I'm saying that while you're wasting your breath howling at the moon and railing against Isiah Thomas... the young Knicks players like Eddy Curry, Renaldo Balkman, Channing Frye and David Lee... are showing signs of improvement.

Beating a Utah Jazz team with an 8 man roster shows a positive sign to me

I find it sad some only see fit to regurgitate negative vibes

I'd rather cheer them all on

so sue me

Let's go through the top teams in each conference as it stands today.

Eastern Conference

Detroit- once in a lifetime team
Orlando- drafted Howard, Jameer Nelson
Cleveland- drafted Lebron, Big Z
Chicago- John Paxson has cleaned up Krauses's mess: drafted Hinreich, Deng, Gordon, Ty Thomas
Washington- team is going nowhere via Holfresh's strategy of making trades
Indiana- used Holfresh's strategy and haven't really drafted anyone
Miami- Drafted Wade and won a championship on Wades back, advanced to the East Finals without Shaq the year before on Wade's back again.

Western Conference

San Antonio- drafted Tim Dunan. Nuff said.
Phoenix- drafted Amare Stoudamire, Shawn Marion
Utah- drafted Deron Williams, Andre Kirilenko
Dallas - drafted Dirk
Lakers- Had Charlotte choose Kobe for them and dumped a guy in Divac they didn't need anymore
Houston- drafted Yao
Denver - drafted Melo, had New York choose Nene for them.
Minesotta- drafted Garnett

Wow, looks like a lot of the good teams right now all drafted their top players and their top players are just that; top players. Where are the Knicks top players? The Knicks don't have a guy as good as one player I just mentioned in the whole list that I just compiled... NOT ONE.

It's one thing to acquire players that you need via trade AFTER your foundation has been set and you've drafted your top players. Doing things backwards and acquiring players and then trying to draft a franchise player doesnt work. Just ask the Wizards


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-20-2006 4:16 PM]

Posted by holfresh:


Heat won because of Shaq----Trade
Lakers won because of Shaq and Kobe ( Signings and trades)
Pistons (Weed, Hamilton, Billups,Big Ben (signings and trades)
Bulls and Spurs were the most recent winners that drafted Franchise players that won...

Ill leave you with this

Bulls drafted about 5 franchise players since Michael..
Clippers has drafted "franchise players" since their inception..
NJ,Toronto,Milwaukee,Orlando,Washington,Atlanta,Charlotte,Denver Portland,Seattle,GS..etc all for years thought the holy grail was the lottery....

Heat won because of Shaq? Who was the MVP final?

Kobe was drafted by West. To suggest otherwise is silly and you know it. Kobe has never worn another team's jersey.

Please.. one team, the Pistons won without drafting their own franchise player. Shaq won nothing with Kobe. Wade is a top 5 NBA player.

Believe what you want to. 19 of the last 20 titles are won by teams that drafted a star. Most people dont even know Kobe wasnt taken with the Laker's pick.

I guess I can give Isiah crap about drafting Dijon Thompson

Posted by misterearl:

Please Omit The Details

Chicago- John Paxson has cleaned up Krauses's mess: drafted Hinreich, Deng, Gordon, Ty Thomas

Time Frame: seven years

why would Pax do something like that? Why wouldnt he bring in expensive veterans with long contracts from losing teams?

Makes no sense...

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by eViL:

Posted by misterearl:

>>Are you saying thats its pathetic Isiah cant put a team together that wins more than that Knick team of 3 years ago that has 8 guys no longer in the league?

Nope

I'm saying that while you're wasting your breath howling at the moon and railing against Isiah Thomas... the young Knicks players like Eddy Curry, Renaldo Balkman, Channing Frye and David Lee... are showing signs of improvement.

Beating a Utah Jazz team with an 8 man roster shows a positive sign to me

I find it sad some only see fit to regurgitate negative vibes

I'd rather cheer them all on

so sue me

Now you are the one who's taking things out of context. One quality win in the midst of a series of embarrassing losses does not make improvement.

I guess thats where we all differ...some will say the Knicks are 8-11 their last 19 games during some key injuries...but that's just me...

Is that good?

Its not like they are close games. We are down 20 in the 2nd qtr to Boston. Did you see that line up? We are getting blown out at home on a nightly basis.

Do we have enough players to compete everynight? Sure seems like we do

Posted by misterearl:

>>Are you saying thats its pathetic Isiah cant put a team together that wins more than that Knick team of 3 years ago that has 8 guys no longer in the league?

Nope

I'm saying that while you're wasting your breath howling at the moon and railing against Isiah Thomas... the young Knicks players like Eddy Curry, Renaldo Balkman, Channing Frye and David Lee... are showing signs of improvement.

Beating a Utah Jazz team with an 8 man roster shows a positive sign to me

I find it sad some only see fit to regurgitate negative vibes

I'd rather cheer them all on

so sue me

i think all of you are wasting your breath. the guy you should be complaining about is me.

since i've been a season ticket holder, we've won 37, 39, 33 and 23 games. i'm the voodoo.

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by eViL:

Posted by misterearl:

>>Are you saying thats its pathetic Isiah cant put a team together that wins more than that Knick team of 3 years ago that has 8 guys no longer in the league?

Nope

I'm saying that while you're wasting your breath howling at the moon and railing against Isiah Thomas... the young Knicks players like Eddy Curry, Renaldo Balkman, Channing Frye and David Lee... are showing signs of improvement.

Beating a Utah Jazz team with an 8 man roster shows a positive sign to me

I find it sad some only see fit to regurgitate negative vibes

I'd rather cheer them all on

so sue me

Now you are the one who's taking things out of context. One quality win in the midst of a series of embarrassing losses does not make improvement.

I guess thats where we all differ...some will say the Knicks are 8-11 their last 19 games during some key injuries...but that's just me...

I don't think the question should be about progress. I think we have definitely made progress over last year. I think there are also signs of progress as the sesaon goes on. But the question should be do we have the pieces in place to make a run for a title. And by pieces I mean players, coach's and GM. If you think the core group can play a part on a championship team. Do you think the GM has the ability to make the moves necessary to get them over the hump. Or will that GM waste 5 of the next 6 moves signing guys that don't fit and then dumping them a year later? These are the more important questions to me. Record this year is not that important to me.

Posted by fishmike:

hopefully we get someone who can do the same with Isiah's mess

I'm not going to pretend like John Paxson is a mastermind GM and I knew he would do a good job, but he did a GREAT job of gutting that team and drafting the RIGHT players, something Krausse could not do. Krausse has turned that team around in 3 years.

I wouldn't know who to say can clean up Isiah's mess, I'd like to say Jerry West, I know you might disagree with that but most of the time these GM's come out of nowhere.

Whose your list of potential GMs fish? I'd like to say Greg Anthony, but I have no idea how he'll be as a GM, but he seems to know his stuff so I'd be willing to give him a chance.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by holfresh:



Detroit Piston won through trades and signings...Lakers won three championships through trades and signing....Suns was able to turn it around through trades and signings...Indiana built its team through trades and signings...New Jersey built it's team through trades...Miami won because of Shaq(trade)....Sacramento had a nice run ( trades)....

Detroit is a once in a lifetime team, no team has EVER won with the way they put their team together in the modern free-agent era and no team will again

The Lakers essentially won through One trade and the draft pick of Kobe Bryant(whom they told Charlotte to draft for them)

The Suns drafted Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudamire and then signed Nash to go WITH IT.

New Jersey drafted Kenyon Martin and Keith Van Horn, they then used a trade to get that one player that would put them over the top.

Sacramento drafted Peja, Jason Williams, Mike Bibby to go along with the 1 player they traded for in Webber. Make no mistake about it, Jason Williams and Peja were very good players at the time when they were with Sacramento.

Wheres the Knicks Kobe, Amare, Marion, Kenyon Martin, Peja, Bibby. Where are these players for the Knicks to build AROUND? Frye,Lee,Curry,Crawford,Nate aren't close to being as good as any of these guys. That is how the teams YOU mentioned built their team, they drafted top young players and they then put guys around them. The Knicks have no top-young players to build around, they have some good young players but none of them are top players and none of them can be built around.

Actually Sacramento traded for Bibby, they didn't draft him. They traded Jason Williams to Vancouver for Bibby nevertheless great breakdown and strong argument presented.

Did nyk4ever really say Greg Anthony for Knicks GM?

Greg Anthony?

seems to know his stuff?

okayfine

why not Mark Jackson or Kenny Smith?

why not Kenny Mayne or Steven A Smith?

Scoop Jackson seems to know his stuff.