Solace, i'm just dealing w/the reality of the situation... we have Curry & we gave up alot to get him... it doesn't make sense to trash the plan 1.5 years into it & start from scratch imo... & even if you do want to start from scratch, what are you proposing we get for Curry to fit into your plan?

IMO, the plan that needs to be scratched right now is the failed Marbury experiment... get rid of him & replace him w/a 2 way PG veteran who knows how to orchestrate & defend his position (like a Brevin Knight), & trade Frye for a shotblocker... then re-evaluate what the next step needs to be after that.

Posted by TMS:

Solace, i'm just dealing w/the reality of the situation... we have Curry & we gave up alot to get him... it doesn't make sense to trash the plan 1.5 years into it & start from scratch imo... & even if you do want to start from scratch, what are you proposing we get for Curry to fit into your plan?

IMO, the plan that needs to be scratched right now is the failed Marbury experiment... get rid of him & replace him w/a 2 way PG veteran who knows how to orchestrate & defend his position (like a Brevin Knight), & trade Frye for a shotblocker... then re-evaluate what the next step needs to be after that.

I think the reality of the situation is that we can say the following:

1) The Marbury strategy failed
2) The Curry strategy failed
3) The Francis strategy failed
4) We have no franchise player to build around. (See points 1-3)
5) We have a very good set of young role players/borderline starters, who bring a lot of energy.

So my plan would be to use some of our positive assets to get rid of the negative ones, possibly choose one or two young players you want to keep (Lee & Balkman?), trade the rest to offset our bad deals, get under the cap by '08-'09, and add a solid stream of young talent, while staying under the cap so we have a shot at the franchise player. It's a two-prong approach, because we could draft the franchise player or sign them, if we have enough cap room.

Get the franchise player first, then you can add the Lees, Balkmans, Fryes, Crawfords, etc... much easier, and you're building around the nucleus. Instead we're building a team that has no shot to be upper crust.

[Edited by - Solace on 06-12-2006 5:49 PM]

The alternative is to trade for a franchise player. Since I don't see many teams giving them up (*especially* big men), it's a tough game. Isiah already proved that you can't trade for a star. The best you can do is trade for a very flawed, perceived star.

Posted by TMS:

put a good shotblocker next to him along w/a floor leader who can guard the perimeter

Suggestions as to who you have in mind? Brevin Knight you suggested, and I like him, but how about the shot blocker? Even with those two pieces, I still think we have a lot of flaws and those moves bring us slightly over .500.

Posted by Solace:

Posted by TMS:

put a good shotblocker next to him along w/a floor leader who can guard the perimeter

Suggestions as to who you have in mind? Brevin Knight you suggested, and I like him, but how about the shot blocker? Even with those two pieces, I still think we have a lot of flaws and those moves bring us slightly over .500.

what about Dalembert? think we couldn't get him for Frye & Malik? i do... or how about Etan Thomas? he'd be a nice tough enforcer type F to play alongside Eddy, & he's a solid shotblocker as well... we could probably get him straight up for Malik & a 2nd rounder imo.

if you could get a Brevin Knight for say, Jamal straight up, & then buy out Marbs, you could end up w/this:

C - Curry / (Frye?) Cato
PF - Dalembert or Etan / Lee
SF - Jefferies / Balkman
SG - Q Rich / Francis
PG - Knight / Nate / Collins
IA - Big Turd

is that slightly above .500? maybe... we'd still need a true franchise calibre talent to play alongside Curry, but that's a start... you can't expect to build a championship contender in 1 fell swoop... you have to slowly progress towards that goal... who knows, maybe the Knicks get lucky & draft a sleeper this season or next that turns out to be that missing piece? it's a pipedream but hey, no one expected to be a championship contender in the next 3 years anyway... i'll take incremental progress at this point... i say let's take care of the Marbury situation first, then go from there.

i agree on Dalembert... he's way overpaid too, but at least he's still relatively young... i'd rather have Etan than Dallybear, but you get my point.

& as for the young kids having to be re-signed, that's why i say we have to see what develops... maybe another GM comes in & executes a big sign & trade deal for a star calibre player using some of those young players? again, who expected this team to be championship calibre in the next 3 years? i sure didn't... could Francis revitalize his game somewhat after Marbury is gone & be traded along w/Nate or Jefferies next year for an impact player? who knows... i'm not saying it's a likely scenario, but it's more likely to happen w/o Marbury being here that much i'm pretty sure of.

hell, maybe Curry improves enough in the next year or 2 to be a guy who you could trade to get a real impact player to build around? is that out of the realm of reasonable possibility? i don't think it is as long as he keeps progressing the way he is now... to cut the experiment short now & unload him for whatever you can get is not my idea of a sound plan to improve going forward... Curry needs to be groomed & developed here & we need to determine the extent to which he can improve on his game before we give up & say he's not a worthy player to keep around.

Posted by TMS:

i agree on Dalembert... he's way overpaid too, but at least he's still relatively young... i'd rather have Etan than Dallybear, but you get my point.

& as for the young kids having to be re-signed, that's why i say we have to see what develops... maybe another GM comes in & executes a big sign & trade deal for a star calibre player using some of those young players? again, who expected this team to be championship calibre in the next 3 years? i sure didn't... could Francis revitalize his game somewhat after Marbury is gone & be traded along w/Nate or Jefferies next year for an impact player? who knows... i'm not saying it's a likely scenario, but it's more likely to happen w/o Marbury being here that much i'm pretty sure of.

hell, maybe Curry improves enough in the next year or 2 to be a guy who you could trade to get a real impact player to build around? is that out of the realm of reasonable possibility? i don't think it is as long as he keeps progressing the way he is now... to cut the experiment short now & unload him for whatever you can get is not my idea of a sound plan to improve going forward... Curry needs to be groomed & developed here & we need to determine the extent to which he can improve on his game before we give up & say he's not a worthy player to keep around.

Honestly, yes, I think it's out of the realm of possibility. Teams don't trade top-level stars unless they're getting them in return. We don't have that kind of player to offer, and I don't see how any team would think Curry is it (if Curry was it, we wouldn't trade him either). Alas I think we're screwed without making the kinds of moves that I said. Personally, I think if we think our future is us building around Curry, Frye, Lee and Nate, we're screwed from the getgo (nothing against those players, there's just no franchise player there).

Posted by TMS:

i think you're selling the players we have a little short... if Curry & D Lee were playing on another team alot of people on this board would be saying those are the types of players we need to build around imo.

Build around? No. DLee = young hustle player with lots of heart. Will average a double double in the future. Great off the bench. Maybe can work himself up to a starter with better D. Not somebody to build a team around.

Curry? We'll see. Great offensive stretch here, but gives up as many points as he makes with his terrible defense. Needs to get in better shape and seriously work on D. It isn't Curry's paint. He needs to make it his paint. Rebounding improving, we'll see if it'll last.

Posted by TMS:

i think you're selling the players we have a little short... if Curry & D Lee were playing on another team alot of people on this board would be saying those are the types of players we need to build around imo.

I seriously disagree. I think we would take notice about how well they're playing and come up with ideas to get them, but nobody would look to build around either one as a centerpiece.