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Eddy Curry is the EXACT SAME player as he was last year
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BlueSeats
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10/15/2006  8:16 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Curry shouldn't be allowed to drive the basketball like he deos. Isiah should stop that. He should only be allowed to shoot jump hooks if he gets good enough position. And he should work on shooting a 10-12 ft jumper when he faces up rather than tring to take his man off the dribble. Him being able to knock down that jumper will force his defender to try and press up and thats when driving will become alot easier.


That's a good point about what a jumper could do for him. But Curry clearing half a step for himself before he even knows what to do with his feet is putting the cart before the horse. Curry's best assets are his soft hands and close to the basket power - that puts him 75% of the way toward being a reliable low post threat. All that is missing are post moves toward the basket and footwork -- the things our bigman coach (Aguirre) are known for. He's more likely to get his feet in line before his jumper, and I'd rather see him catch the ball 8 feet out and make one or two good step toward the hoop than catch it 10 feet out and step back.

If there were one thing I'd have him add tomorrow it would be a pass back out of the post - to someone who can shoot, facilitate or finish - with a willingness to repost.



[Edited by - blueseats on 10-15-2006 8:17 PM]
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wsdm
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10/15/2006  8:35 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by wsdm:

Eddy sure still doesn't know how to pass the ball. 0 assists and 8 turnovers so far.

Thats shocking for a center. He should be averaging at least 4 assists per game, lol.
A center who's a scoring threat should get at least two assists a game

At least 2 assists per game for a Center? Ok if you say so. How many real centers (not PF that sometimes play Center)in the NBA averaged at least 2 assists per games last season? 2? 3?
With his ability to catch the ball and finish (55% FGs), he should be a top 5 assisting center. How many starting centers in the league had a worse assist/turnover ratio last year? I'd be surprised if ANY did actually.

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joec32033
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10/15/2006  8:54 PM
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by wsdm:

Eddy sure still doesn't know how to pass the ball. 0 assists and 8 turnovers so far.

Thats shocking for a center. He should be averaging at least 4 assists per game, lol.
A center who's a scoring threat should get at least two assists a game

At least 2 assists per game for a Center? Ok if you say so. How many real centers (not PF that sometimes play Center)in the NBA averaged at least 2 assists per games last season? 2? 3?
With his ability to catch the ball and finish (55% FGs), he should be a top 5 assisting center. How many starting centers in the league had a worse assist/turnover ratio last year? I'd be surprised if ANY did actually.
Centers assists
Diaw-6.7
Miller-4.7
Gasol-4.6
Duncan-3.2
Bosh-2.6
Okur-2.4
Bogut-2.3
Wallace-1.9
Pachulia-1.7
LaFrentz-1.4
Jaron Collins, Blount, PJ Brown, Ilgauskis-1.2
Cliffy and Nenad-1.1
Chandler, Kaman, Kwame Brown, Jason Collins-1

Curry-.3
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&qual=true&sort=asts&league=nba&split=0&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=pg&pos=c


Assists to T/O
Only 4 centers qualify as leaders-
Diaw-2.66
Miller-2.08
Gasol-1.58
Duncan-1.28
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&qual=true&sort=astto&league=nba&split=0&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=48&pos=c

Here is the link to All centers-
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&sort=astto&order=true&league=nba&avg=48&qual=false&pos=c&season=2006&seasontype=2


Curry's assist to T/O- 0.11
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&sort=astto&league=nba&split=0&order=true&row1=101&qual=false&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=48&pos=c


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crzymdups
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10/15/2006  8:57 PM
Shaq's assist to T/O ratio: .67
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joec32033
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10/15/2006  8:59 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Shaq's assist to T/O ratio: .67

I didn't bother looking through all the centers, so I just popped the top 4 and provided a link for all the centers stats....I hope you don't believe I doctored them on ESPN.com because that would be too hard for someone like me...

[Edited by - joec32033 on 10-15-2006 8:59 PM]
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10/15/2006  9:01 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by crzymdups:

Shaq's assist to T/O ratio: .67

I didn't bother looking through all the centers, so I just popped the top 4 and provided a link for all the centers stats....I hope you don't believe I docoted them on ESPN.com because that would be too hard for someone like me...

I'm just trying to say that I don't think Curry needs to become a great passer to be successful at his game. He does obviously need to cut down on the TOs though. However, I bet over half of his TOs come on offensive fouls, which he still needs to cut down obv, but if he puts up a string of 25 and 10 games, the refs will start giving him more respect on those calls.

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wsdm
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10/15/2006  9:05 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Shaq's assist to T/O ratio: .67

So for Shaq it's 3 turnovers for every 2 assists and for Curry it's TEN turnovers for every one assist. That's a HUGE difference. That definitely affects the approach of the opponent.
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joec32033
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10/15/2006  9:07 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by crzymdups:

Shaq's assist to T/O ratio: .67

I didn't bother looking through all the centers, so I just popped the top 4 and provided a link for all the centers stats....I hope you don't believe I docoted them on ESPN.com because that would be too hard for someone like me...

I'm just trying to say that I don't think Curry needs to become a great passer to be successful at his game. He does obviously need to cut down on the TOs though. However, I bet over half of his TOs come on offensive fouls, which he still needs to cut down obv, but if he puts up a string of 25 and 10 games, the refs will start giving him more respect on those calls.

Assists to T/O ratio is more a measure of assists and not a real great measure of turnovers, especially to guys who don't get assists....

Top 3 T/O per game.

Gasol-2.9
Shaq -2.8
Curry-2.5
Duncan-2.5
Blount-2.4
Diaw, Pachulia, Miller, Kaman-2.3
Remember all of these guys EXCEPT Curry were high on the Assist per game list.

This is qualified leaders
-http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaturnovers&sort=tos&season=2006&seasontype=2&order=true&league=nba&avg=pg&qual=true&pos=c

This is all centers-
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaturnovers&sort=tos&season=2006&seasontype=2&order=true&league=nba&avg=pg&qual=true&pos=c

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bigbeast
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10/15/2006  9:11 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by wsdm:

Eddy sure still doesn't know how to pass the ball. 0 assists and 8 turnovers so far.

Thats shocking for a center. He should be averaging at least 4 assists per game, lol.
A center who's a scoring threat should get at least two assists a game

At least 2 assists per game for a Center? Ok if you say so. How many real centers (not PF that sometimes play Center)in the NBA averaged at least 2 assists per games last season? 2? 3?
With his ability to catch the ball and finish (55% FGs), he should be a top 5 assisting center. How many starting centers in the league had a worse assist/turnover ratio last year? I'd be surprised if ANY did actually.
Centers assists
Diaw-6.7
Miller-4.7
Gasol-4.6
Duncan-3.2
Bosh-2.6
Okur-2.4
Bogut-2.3
Wallace-1.9
Pachulia-1.7
LaFrentz-1.4
Jaron Collins, Blount, PJ Brown, Ilgauskis-1.2
Cliffy and Nenad-1.1
Chandler, Kaman, Kwame Brown, Jason Collins-1

Curry-.3
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&qual=true&sort=asts&league=nba&split=0&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=pg&pos=c


Assists to T/O
Only 4 centers qualify as leaders-
Diaw-2.66
Miller-2.08
Gasol-1.58
Duncan-1.28
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&qual=true&sort=astto&league=nba&split=0&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=48&pos=c

Here is the link to All centers-
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&sort=astto&order=true&league=nba&avg=48&qual=false&pos=c&season=2006&seasontype=2


Curry's assist to T/O- 0.11
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&sort=astto&league=nba&split=0&order=true&row1=101&qual=false&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=48&pos=c

Joe, I've always respected your stats, and back-up info.....And I'm not really trying to defend Curry (actually I am). Lets face it, he's not very court savy, and still doesn't posees a great understanding of the game. But to be fair, some of the guys on your list are not legit centers. The ones I highlighted are legit.

Bogut played PF next to Magloire last yr
Bosh and Diaw aren't centers.
Miller is the exception to the rule., He's one the best passing centers in league. Plus he plays the high post in a princeton like offense that has tons of cutters.
Okur also plays a high-post position.
This might be nitpicking but Ben Wallace doesn't look to score when he gets the ball so his only option is to pass.

However, ther is no reason why Curry can't average the same amount of asts. that Illguaskis, Brown and Blount are averaging which is around 1.2
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
crzymdups
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10/15/2006  9:14 PM
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by crzymdups:

Shaq's assist to T/O ratio: .67

So for Shaq it's 3 turnovers for every 2 assists and for Curry it's TEN turnovers for every one assist. That's a HUGE difference. That definitely affects the approach of the opponent.

a lot of Shaq's assists come when he kicks it out to open three point shooters. in fact, I would bet post players get at least half their assists that way. too bad our genius coach Larry Brown didn't let players shoot three pointers.
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joec32033
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10/15/2006  9:16 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by wsdm:

Eddy sure still doesn't know how to pass the ball. 0 assists and 8 turnovers so far.

Thats shocking for a center. He should be averaging at least 4 assists per game, lol.
A center who's a scoring threat should get at least two assists a game

At least 2 assists per game for a Center? Ok if you say so. How many real centers (not PF that sometimes play Center)in the NBA averaged at least 2 assists per games last season? 2? 3?
With his ability to catch the ball and finish (55% FGs), he should be a top 5 assisting center. How many starting centers in the league had a worse assist/turnover ratio last year? I'd be surprised if ANY did actually.
Centers assists
Diaw-6.7
Miller-4.7
Gasol-4.6
Duncan-3.2
Bosh-2.6
Okur-2.4
Bogut-2.3
Wallace-1.9
Pachulia-1.7
LaFrentz-1.4
Jaron Collins, Blount, PJ Brown, Ilgauskis-1.2
Cliffy and Nenad-1.1
Chandler, Kaman, Kwame Brown, Jason Collins-1

Curry-.3
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&qual=true&sort=asts&league=nba&split=0&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=pg&pos=c


Assists to T/O
Only 4 centers qualify as leaders-
Diaw-2.66
Miller-2.08
Gasol-1.58
Duncan-1.28
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&qual=true&sort=astto&league=nba&split=0&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=48&pos=c

Here is the link to All centers-
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&sort=astto&order=true&league=nba&avg=48&qual=false&pos=c&season=2006&seasontype=2


Curry's assist to T/O- 0.11
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&sort=astto&league=nba&split=0&order=true&row1=101&qual=false&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=48&pos=c

Joe, I've always respected your stats, and back-up info.....And I'm not really trying to defend Curry (actually I am). Lets face it, he's not very court savy, and still doesn't posees a great understanding of the game. But to be fair, some of the guys on your list are not legit centers. The ones I highlighted are legit.

Bogut played PF next to Magloire last yr
Bosh and Diaw aren't centers.
Miller is the exception to the rule., He's one the best passing centers in league. Plus he plays the high post in a princeton like offense that has tons of cutters.
Okur also plays a high-post position.
This might be nitpicking but Ben Wallace doesn't look to score when he gets the ball so his only option is to pass.

However, ther is no reason why Curry can't average the same amount of asts. that Illguaskis, Brown and Blount are averaging which is around 1.2

Oh, I totally agree. I just posted the stats. No regard one way or another. It also speaks volumes about the centr position in the NBA-Other than Duncan where the offense is run through him in the post, no other center really does that. All these other guys (except Wallace, and Blount, Kaman, PJ Brown) are more of that Euro multi dimensional center, while Curry is old school bully. And that does play a big role. Also Curry isn't used to initiate any kind of offense. The guards are-meaning Curry is usually finishing the plays.
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bigbeast
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10/15/2006  9:17 PM
Another point about Curry. He strikes me as a big-man that picked up the game late just because he is big. There is something to be said for giys that started playing early, have a passion for it and watch tons of games.

Because Curry probably picked it up late, he probably wasn't much of a fan which means he didn't play or watch much early. This is most likely the reason his court awareness and situational understanding of the game is low. I think he needs to watch tons game film, play more games (during the off season) the more he plays and watches, the more situations he will become exposed to.
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10/15/2006  9:18 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by crzymdups:

Shaq's assist to T/O ratio: .67

So for Shaq it's 3 turnovers for every 2 assists and for Curry it's TEN turnovers for every one assist. That's a HUGE difference. That definitely affects the approach of the opponent.

a lot of Shaq's assists come when he kicks it out to open three point shooters. in fact, I would bet post players get at least half their assists that way. too bad our genius coach Larry Brown didn't let players shoot three pointers.

That would be because we didn't have any players who could shoot the three.
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wsdm
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10/15/2006  9:20 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by crzymdups:

Shaq's assist to T/O ratio: .67

So for Shaq it's 3 turnovers for every 2 assists and for Curry it's TEN turnovers for every one assist. That's a HUGE difference. That definitely affects the approach of the opponent.

a lot of Shaq's assists come when he kicks it out to open three point shooters. in fact, I would bet post players get at least half their assists that way. too bad our genius coach Larry Brown didn't let players shoot three pointers.
Curry's always been at the bottom of the league in assists:turnover ratio.

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nyk4ever
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10/15/2006  9:21 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by crzymdups:

Shaq's assist to T/O ratio: .67

So for Shaq it's 3 turnovers for every 2 assists and for Curry it's TEN turnovers for every one assist. That's a HUGE difference. That definitely affects the approach of the opponent.

a lot of Shaq's assists come when he kicks it out to open three point shooters. in fact, I would bet post players get at least half their assists that way. too bad our genius coach Larry Brown didn't let players shoot three pointers.

That would be because we didn't have any players who could shoot the three.

Just to be fair.. Crzy, I'm not hounding you or anything here, just happen to disagree with you in 2 different threads

The Knicks were 13th in the league last year in 3pointers attempted at 13.6 per game.

EDIT: WTF. How come when you look for team by team stats ESPN puts you at the 2000-2001 as default. The Knicks averaged 10.8 3Pointers Per Game last year, 2nd last in the NBA. I'd still say that not having 3point shooters MIGHT have something to do with it.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-15-2006 9:21 PM]

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-15-2006 9:25 PM]
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crzymdups
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10/15/2006  9:24 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by crzymdups:

Shaq's assist to T/O ratio: .67

So for Shaq it's 3 turnovers for every 2 assists and for Curry it's TEN turnovers for every one assist. That's a HUGE difference. That definitely affects the approach of the opponent.

a lot of Shaq's assists come when he kicks it out to open three point shooters. in fact, I would bet post players get at least half their assists that way. too bad our genius coach Larry Brown didn't let players shoot three pointers.

That would be because we didn't have any players who could shoot the three.

Just to be fair.. Crzy, I'm not hounding you or anything here, just happen to disagree with you in 2 different threads

The Knicks were 13th in the league last year in 3pointers attempted at 13.6 per game.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-15-2006 9:21 PM]

it must've gone up after Jalen Rose showed up here, through the end of January, we were in the bottom five in 3pfg attempts. I remember distinctly complaining about it.
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nyk4ever
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10/15/2006  9:25 PM
Posted by crzymdups:



it must've gone up after Jalen Rose showed up here, through the end of January, we were in the bottom five in 3pfg attempts. I remember distinctly complaining about it.

Read my previous post, I screwed up looking at the ESPN team by team stats
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10/15/2006  9:26 PM
We shot .362 for the season thanks mainly to high %'s from Rose(49%) and Francis (54%).
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10/15/2006  9:28 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:



it must've gone up after Jalen Rose showed up here, through the end of January, we were in the bottom five in 3pfg attempts. I remember distinctly complaining about it.

Read my previous post, I screwed up looking at the ESPN team by team stats

oh, whoops, you made the same mistake I did - which is ESPN automatically puts it on the 2000-2001 season, back when we had a real coach. under JVG we were 13th, under Larry Brown we were 28th...here...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&sort=3pa&league=nba&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=pg&order=true&split=0

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nyk4ever
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10/15/2006  9:33 PM
Posted by crzymdups:


oh, whoops, you made the same mistake I did - which is ESPN automatically puts it on the 2000-2001 season, back when we had a real coach. under JVG we were 13th, under Larry Brown we were 28th...here...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&sort=3pa&league=nba&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=pg&order=true&split=0

Well it does help when you have players that are actually profecient at the 3point shot. That 2000-2001 team had Glen Rice, Allan Houston and Charlie Ward if memory serves me correctly.
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Eddy Curry is the EXACT SAME player as he was last year

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