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Nalod
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If you could dump Marbury and go forward with our mix of youth, would you do it? Keep Francis and start him with Craw. Q is the first shooting guard off the bench, and nate is the sparkplug. Does the team seem more balanceed without him. Say trade him for expiring "eddie jones" type player. Then let that contract and Jailen expire.
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holfresh
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10/12/2006  12:39 AM

So is Larry Brown but you love him....
AUTOADVERT
martin
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10/12/2006  1:25 AM
Posted by holfresh:


So is Larry Brown but you love him....

LB is a proven winner and that's what really counts, right? Winning?
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holfresh
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10/12/2006  3:47 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:


So is Larry Brown but you love him....

LB is a proven winner and that's what really counts, right? Winning?


U can be a prick and a cancer who wears out his welcome every 3 years...but as long as you have one championship in 20 years of coaching after highjacking someone else's efforts(Carlisle), it's all good....Got it!...

wsdm
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10/12/2006  7:56 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by eViL:

Marbs is a talent. Everyone knows that. But he has failed to put it all together at every stop in his career. I gave him all the chances in the world when he became a Knick, but I have finally passed judgment on him. I consider him a me-first player who is destined to go down as the ultimate stat-grubbing loser in league history. I hope I'm wrong -- trust me, I really do. If he puts it all together this year the Knicks will win a lot of games. I am certain of that. However, he shows no signs of 'getting it' and we're likely to be in the lottery again. It makes me sad to say that, but that's how I feel.

Yeah, I understand how you feel, but I think people view Marbury in far too black and white terms. He HAS had some very good stretches, even extended stretches, as a point gaurd in his career. You don't get chosen to be the PG for your country in the olympics if you've always been an awful PG. You don't get chosen several player of the month awards, all-star nominations, all nba 3rd or 2nd (I forget) awards, the list goes on...if you've always been an awful point gaurd. He's been a great PG at times--just never for a full season other than possibly the one in Phoenix before he got the huge contract extension. We're all down on Marbury because of a "recency effect" (i.e., how awful last season was). I think a lot of people make it sound like he's been an awful PG 100% of his career.

There's no doubt he has the ability to be a great PG. He can run an offense decently at times, depending on what the defense presents. However, when you say he's had stretches, that's actually alarming. A great PG is always a great PG. Marbury is nowhere near being a GREAT PG. He's a great scorer who can kick the ball out while driving, and he can run a pick and roll. But he's not good at directing an offense, b/c his main thing is SCORING.

And another thing you mentioned that's alarming is "When his head is n straight." He's almost 30. We shouldn't be worried about him having his head on straight. He should be committed to doing whatever is best for the organization, and when he's still talking about Starbury, you wonder if they're is something not right up there.
He's definitely immature still, which is disappointing considering his age. I wouldn't disagree with that.
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Swishfm3
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10/12/2006  9:01 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:


Herb never complained about Marbs..Chaney said he wished he had more time with Marbs..D'antoni hasn't said anything bad about Marbs...Flip loves Marbs, I nver heard Ainge said anything about Marbs if he ever coached him...Herb as well...

you have to differentiate between a coach with a contract and a coach who is on a year to year lease (Herb, Chaney). D'antoni has complained plenty about Marb (something like "he never bought into our system"). Some coaches are young and some are in the last year of their contract. Sometimes a player has TONS of power (LeBron, even if he is WAAAAY our of line, will never hear a bad word from a coach). Like that.


are you serious with this post?

I don't live on google, so can someone find me where D'antoni said that Marbs never bought into his system. thanks
martin
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10/12/2006  11:28 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:


So is Larry Brown but you love him....

LB is a proven winner and that's what really counts, right? Winning?


U can be a prick and a cancer who wears out his welcome every 3 years...but as long as you have one championship in 20 years of coaching after highjacking someone else's efforts(Carlisle), it's all good....Got it!...

hol, your arguements are sooo freakin weak. Is Sloan not a winner cause he never won in the big show? Calisle is sooo good Dumars fired him? Did ANYONE predict a team of role players could beat Kobe, Shaq, Mailman, The Glove? NO ONE did. How many thought that Detroit would stumble after Weed and his cranky personality arrived?

How many times has Marbury gotten to to the finals? Second round? Into the freakin playoffs?

How many coaches have won at the NBA level and NCAA level?

Brown is a prick and a tough love guy.... yet he makes players better (witness Chauncy, AI).

Thanks for your deep thoughts on that though.

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fishmike
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10/12/2006  12:10 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:


Herb never complained about Marbs..Chaney said he wished he had more time with Marbs..D'antoni hasn't said anything bad about Marbs...Flip loves Marbs, I nver heard Ainge said anything about Marbs if he ever coached him...Herb as well...

you have to differentiate between a coach with a contract and a coach who is on a year to year lease (Herb, Chaney). D'antoni has complained plenty about Marb (something like "he never bought into our system"). Some coaches are young and some are in the last year of their contract. Sometimes a player has TONS of power (LeBron, even if he is WAAAAY our of line, will never hear a bad word from a coach). Like that.


are you serious with this post?

I don't live on google, so can someone find me where D'antoni said that Marbs never bought into his system. thanks
I couldnt find it, and honestly dont remember when D'Antoni said that. I do know and remember that Penny said the reason they struggled and Nash thrived was that Marbury didnt buy into D'Antoni's system, and Nash did.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
joec32033
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10/12/2006  12:25 PM
U can be a prick and a cancer who wears out his welcome every 3 years...

May I point this out-

Minny- 96-97, 97-98, 20 games of 98-99 -less than 2.5 seasons
N.J. - 31 games in 98-99, 99-00, 00-01 -less than 2.5 seasons
PHX - 01-02, 02-03, 34 games in 03-04 -less than 2.5 seasons
NY - 47 games in 03-04, 04-05, 05-06, Under gun to prove himself in 06-07- 2.5 seasons.

May I point out this is Marbury's career?

[Edited by - joec32033 on 10-12-2006 12:26 PM]

[Edited by - joec32033 on 10-12-2006 12:27 PM]
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joec32033
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10/12/2006  12:28 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:


Herb never complained about Marbs..Chaney said he wished he had more time with Marbs..D'antoni hasn't said anything bad about Marbs...Flip loves Marbs, I nver heard Ainge said anything about Marbs if he ever coached him...Herb as well...

you have to differentiate between a coach with a contract and a coach who is on a year to year lease (Herb, Chaney). D'antoni has complained plenty about Marb (something like "he never bought into our system"). Some coaches are young and some are in the last year of their contract. Sometimes a player has TONS of power (LeBron, even if he is WAAAAY our of line, will never hear a bad word from a coach). Like that.


are you serious with this post?

I don't live on google, so can someone find me where D'antoni said that Marbs never bought into his system. thanks
I couldnt find it, and honestly dont remember when D'Antoni said that. I do know and remember that Penny said the reason they struggled and Nash thrived was that Marbury didnt buy into D'Antoni's system, and Nash did.

Ask BlueSeats he'll find it he must've posted it about 85 times.

Martin and Andrew-Search feature.
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martin
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10/12/2006  12:31 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:


Herb never complained about Marbs..Chaney said he wished he had more time with Marbs..D'antoni hasn't said anything bad about Marbs...Flip loves Marbs, I nver heard Ainge said anything about Marbs if he ever coached him...Herb as well...

you have to differentiate between a coach with a contract and a coach who is on a year to year lease (Herb, Chaney). D'antoni has complained plenty about Marb (something like "he never bought into our system"). Some coaches are young and some are in the last year of their contract. Sometimes a player has TONS of power (LeBron, even if he is WAAAAY our of line, will never hear a bad word from a coach). Like that.


are you serious with this post?

I don't live on google, so can someone find me where D'antoni said that Marbs never bought into his system. thanks

I can understand how complex google is to use. Fish may be right.... Penny may have said it.
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fishmike
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10/12/2006  12:38 PM
now we are crediting Carlisle with Det's success? Holfresh, werent you the leader of the "Pistons better with out Larry" bandwagon?

The Knicks have the only group of players Larry didnt win with
The Knicks have the only group of players that universally hated Larry

Who cares.. one loser deserves another and all the guys that quit on Brown last year got just that. Welcome aboard Zeke
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BlueSeats
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10/12/2006  1:17 PM
Posted by joec32033:

Ask BlueSeats he'll find it he must've posted it about 85 times.

Martin and Andrew-Search feature.

Search would be good, cause I think I had finally condensed a lot of these old quotes into a tight package, but didn't bookmark it. I also posted it on realgm, but it led to a fight with a mod so they suspended me and took down the thread. lol

Anyway, here's something:

"Coach D'Antoni is a great coach," Hardaway said. "He tried to have us buy into this system when we were here, and we really didn't. There was so much turmoil going on. Steve Nash and Quentin Richardson came in and had the type of game Coach wanted. That's up and down, push the ball, kick it ahead and it doesn't matter who shoots or who scores ... We had enough on the team to get it done, but we just didn't buy into the system."

Hardaway was upset in Phoenix because his playing time was reduced to make way for younger players. Marbury was in the middle of the turmoil that enveloped the Suns.

"It was like guys talking behind each other's backs, guys being selfish, everybody was trying to get their own," Hardaway said. "That leads to trades, and that broke the team up. It doesn't seem like they have any of that going on right now."


Some suggest Marbury may be best suited to play shooting guard, rather than point guard, to maximize his skills and keep him from dominating the ball. "I think a lot of people expect him to be a great point guard, but I don't think that's his main suit," D'Antoni said.



Had enough to get it done, but didn't buy into the system? Marbury in the center of turmoil? Guys talking behind each other's back, trying to get their own?

Why does it sound like they're talking about the 04-05-06 knicks?

Some (and we know who they are) may want to challenge Penny's assessments, but they are even echoed by Isiah:

"When we got him here in New York, the reason why we were able to get him is because he has flaws," said Isiah Thomas, the Knicks' president, who acquired Marbury in a splashy trade last January. "And you don't correct those flaws in four months. But I look at where he is at today and this year, he's laying a great foundation for him to springboard to success in this league. And it's not easy."

"The type of leader I think he's developing into, he's accepting of his teammates' criticism. Before, it was like nobody could say if he was doing anything wrong. Teammates were afraid. So everybody kind of sniped behind his back, as opposed to trying to help him and teach him."

Thomas speculated that Marbury had tried to lead through intimidation. That certainly seemed to be the case in New Jersey, where Marbury publicly criticized Kerry Kittles and Keith Van Horn; and in Phoenix, where Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion reportedly grew weary of his demeanor.



"Steph is really a very unselfish player," a Suns official said. But once divisions arise, he added, "Steph isn't good with breaking it down, with the way he acts."



What did bryan colangleo think about substituting Nash for Marbury, before Nash even played a single game?

"Steve Nash defined everything we were looking to address on this team," Bryan Colangelo said.


What did D'Antoni think?

The No. 1 thing we lacked last year was leadership and Basketball IQ. And with Steve running the show now, we think we have improved dramatically in both of those areas.



holfresh
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10/12/2006  1:35 PM
Posted by fishmike:

now we are crediting Carlisle with Det's success? Holfresh, werent you the leader of the "Pistons better with out Larry" bandwagon?

The Knicks have the only group of players Larry didnt win with
The Knicks have the only group of players that universally hated Larry

Who cares.. one loser deserves another and all the guys that quit on Brown last year got just that. Welcome aboard Zeke


Dude, don't ever get me wrong about this...I know what Larry brings to the table as a coach...Larry is a hell of a coach, but last year he was a prick and tanked the season to get Isiah's job...I would never use my hate for Larry and what he did to the team I watch religously to discount what he is as a coach...I'll leave that to the Marbury haters who now thinks this guy don't have th skill to run a team...Brown is one of the good ones, much overrated I think, but good....Carlsile had Detroit winning 50 games back to back without Weed on that rosters...The team didn't take off until Weed got there...

Marbs is a headcase, I give you that, but please tell me his 20 and 8 is something to sneeze at because has hasn't won anything....The guy has never had an allstart play next to him continuously to win anything....NO point guard can and has won without another star running with him...Show me one, just one point guard in NBA history that won anything without an all star on the roster...Just one...

Swishfm3
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10/12/2006  1:36 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:


Herb never complained about Marbs..Chaney said he wished he had more time with Marbs..D'antoni hasn't said anything bad about Marbs...Flip loves Marbs, I nver heard Ainge said anything about Marbs if he ever coached him...Herb as well...

you have to differentiate between a coach with a contract and a coach who is on a year to year lease (Herb, Chaney). D'antoni has complained plenty about Marb (something like "he never bought into our system"). Some coaches are young and some are in the last year of their contract. Sometimes a player has TONS of power (LeBron, even if he is WAAAAY our of line, will never hear a bad word from a coach). Like that.


are you serious with this post?

I don't live on google, so can someone find me where D'antoni said that Marbs never bought into his system. thanks

I can understand how complex google is to use. Fish may be right.... Penny may have said it.


why.....do you have a problem with the Google site, smartasz?

Next time get your facts straight.


so by your account...Anybody in the NBA is a winner if they have been to the playoffs more than twice and past the first round.
and when Marbury DOES accomplish that, it'll be "As he been to the Finals?" GTFOH...
BlueSeats
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10/12/2006  1:41 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

now we are crediting Carlisle with Det's success? Holfresh, werent you the leader of the "Pistons better with out Larry" bandwagon?

The Knicks have the only group of players Larry didnt win with
The Knicks have the only group of players that universally hated Larry

Who cares.. one loser deserves another and all the guys that quit on Brown last year got just that. Welcome aboard Zeke


Dude, don't ever get me wrong about this...I know what Larry brings to the table as a coach...Larry is a hell of a coach, but last year he was a prick and tanked the season to get Isiah's job...I would never use my hate for Larry and what he did to the team I watch religously to discount what he is as a coach...I'll leave that to the Marbury haters who now thinks this guy don't have th skill to run a team...Brown is one of the good ones, much overrated I think, but good....Carlsile had Detroit winning 50 games back to back without Weed on that rosters...The team didn't take off until Weed got there...

Marbs is a headcase, I give you that, but please tell me his 20 and 8 is something to sneeze at because has hasn't won anything....The guy has never had an allstart play next to him continuously to win anything....NO point guard can and has won without another star running with him...Show me one, just one point guard in NBA history that won anything without an all star on the roster...Just one...


Marion and Gugliota were all-stars.
holfresh
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10/12/2006  1:49 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

now we are crediting Carlisle with Det's success? Holfresh, werent you the leader of the "Pistons better with out Larry" bandwagon?

The Knicks have the only group of players Larry didnt win with
The Knicks have the only group of players that universally hated Larry

Who cares.. one loser deserves another and all the guys that quit on Brown last year got just that. Welcome aboard Zeke


Dude, don't ever get me wrong about this...I know what Larry brings to the table as a coach...Larry is a hell of a coach, but last year he was a prick and tanked the season to get Isiah's job...I would never use my hate for Larry and what he did to the team I watch religously to discount what he is as a coach...I'll leave that to the Marbury haters who now thinks this guy don't have th skill to run a team...Brown is one of the good ones, much overrated I think, but good....Carlsile had Detroit winning 50 games back to back without Weed on that rosters...The team didn't take off until Weed got there...

Marbs is a headcase, I give you that, but please tell me his 20 and 8 is something to sneeze at because has hasn't won anything....The guy has never had an allstart play next to him continuously to win anything....NO point guard can and has won without another star running with him...Show me one, just one point guard in NBA history that won anything without an all star on the roster...Just one...


Marion and Gugliota were all-stars.


This may be an exaggeration but didn't Googs played like 10 games with Marbs, Googs was a third of his allstar self after injuries....Marion first allstar year was with Marbs running the point and they were successful...They gave San Antonio a run for it in the playoffs, so you are actually helping my point...

BlueSeats
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10/12/2006  1:55 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

now we are crediting Carlisle with Det's success? Holfresh, werent you the leader of the "Pistons better with out Larry" bandwagon?

The Knicks have the only group of players Larry didnt win with
The Knicks have the only group of players that universally hated Larry

Who cares.. one loser deserves another and all the guys that quit on Brown last year got just that. Welcome aboard Zeke


Dude, don't ever get me wrong about this...I know what Larry brings to the table as a coach...Larry is a hell of a coach, but last year he was a prick and tanked the season to get Isiah's job...I would never use my hate for Larry and what he did to the team I watch religously to discount what he is as a coach...I'll leave that to the Marbury haters who now thinks this guy don't have th skill to run a team...Brown is one of the good ones, much overrated I think, but good....Carlsile had Detroit winning 50 games back to back without Weed on that rosters...The team didn't take off until Weed got there...

Marbs is a headcase, I give you that, but please tell me his 20 and 8 is something to sneeze at because has hasn't won anything....The guy has never had an allstart play next to him continuously to win anything....NO point guard can and has won without another star running with him...Show me one, just one point guard in NBA history that won anything without an all star on the roster...Just one...


Marion and Gugliota were all-stars.


This may be an exaggeration but didn't Googs played like 10 games with Marbs, Googs was a third of his allstar self after injuries....Marion first allstar year was with Marbs running the point and they were successful...They gave San Antonio a run for it in the playoffs, so you are actually helping my point...



Well of course, the more talent the better. But what happens is we need these guys to elevate Marbury rather than the other way around. Far too often guys have to lift their game in spite of Marbury and his turmoil.

See if he really clicked with people and made them better teams wouldn't be so anxious to move him so as facility the emergence of the surrounding talent.

We're all well aware of how Minny, NJ, and Phoenix got better after his departure, but even here KVH clicked with him but had to be moved for personality reasons. Ditto KT.

Who'll be the next casualty?

SugarRayRichardson
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10/12/2006  2:05 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

now we are crediting Carlisle with Det's success? Holfresh, werent you the leader of the "Pistons better with out Larry" bandwagon?

The Knicks have the only group of players Larry didnt win with
The Knicks have the only group of players that universally hated Larry

Who cares.. one loser deserves another and all the guys that quit on Brown last year got just that. Welcome aboard Zeke


Dude, don't ever get me wrong about this...I know what Larry brings to the table as a coach...Larry is a hell of a coach, but last year he was a prick and tanked the season to get Isiah's job...I would never use my hate for Larry and what he did to the team I watch religously to discount what he is as a coach...I'll leave that to the Marbury haters who now thinks this guy don't have th skill to run a team...Brown is one of the good ones, much overrated I think, but good....Carlsile had Detroit winning 50 games back to back without Weed on that rosters...The team didn't take off until Weed got there...

Marbs is a headcase, I give you that, but please tell me his 20 and 8 is something to sneeze at because has hasn't won anything....The guy has never had an allstart play next to him continuously to win anything....NO point guard can and has won without another star running with him...Show me one, just one point guard in NBA history that won anything without an all star on the roster...Just one...


Marion and Gugliota were all-stars.


This may be an exaggeration but didn't Googs played like 10 games with Marbs, Googs was a third of his allstar self after injuries....Marion first allstar year was with Marbs running the point and they were successful...They gave San Antonio a run for it in the playoffs, so you are actually helping my point...


1) Googs played around 110 games with Marbs not 10
2) Losing 4-2 to SA in the Playoffs is nothing to brag about espesically when you shoot 38%. Marbs has been in the playoffs 4 times despite only having 2 winning years. He shot 40%-31%-38%-37% in those playoff series. Thats horrible

I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
Swishfm3
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10/12/2006  2:25 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

now we are crediting Carlisle with Det's success? Holfresh, werent you the leader of the "Pistons better with out Larry" bandwagon?

The Knicks have the only group of players Larry didnt win with
The Knicks have the only group of players that universally hated Larry

Who cares.. one loser deserves another and all the guys that quit on Brown last year got just that. Welcome aboard Zeke


Dude, don't ever get me wrong about this...I know what Larry brings to the table as a coach...Larry is a hell of a coach, but last year he was a prick and tanked the season to get Isiah's job...I would never use my hate for Larry and what he did to the team I watch religously to discount what he is as a coach...I'll leave that to the Marbury haters who now thinks this guy don't have th skill to run a team...Brown is one of the good ones, much overrated I think, but good....Carlsile had Detroit winning 50 games back to back without Weed on that rosters...The team didn't take off until Weed got there...

Marbs is a headcase, I give you that, but please tell me his 20 and 8 is something to sneeze at because has hasn't won anything....The guy has never had an allstart play next to him continuously to win anything....NO point guard can and has won without another star running with him...Show me one, just one point guard in NBA history that won anything without an all star on the roster...Just one...


Marion and Gugliota were all-stars.


This may be an exaggeration but didn't Googs played like 10 games with Marbs, Googs was a third of his allstar self after injuries....Marion first allstar year was with Marbs running the point and they were successful...They gave San Antonio a run for it in the playoffs, so you are actually helping my point...



Don't know about Marion....but someone here posted that Googs first All-Star appearance with the year before Marbs was traded
SugarRayRichardson
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10/12/2006  2:28 PM
Gugliota left Minny before Marbs. I know this because Googs said Marbs is the reason he left! LOL
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
TradeBury........

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