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Isiah and Marbury play the blame game on Steve Francis
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BasketballJones
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10/11/2006  12:02 AM
You guys make being a mole sound like a bad thing. Don't forget, even lovable old Nalod started out as an MSG mole, way back during the Layden regime. A putsch or two later, he leads the anti-MSG revolution.

Moles are people too, and they have a right to express their opinions.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 10-11-2006 00:03]
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oohah
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10/11/2006  12:20 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by oohah:
Oohah, I don't get it. We tell guys like Taylor(who said the team sucks), AD(who said the same thing), and LB(talking about how to get Marbury to play PG) to shut up, they don't know what they are talking about, but Steph can say whatever he wants because he was asked the question? He can basically say-the guy is only here to replace me- and it's ok. So now only Steph can nail teammates to the media, as long as he is "asked the question"?

This is my problem with Stephon-he has no accountability whatsoever.

You're comparing apples to oranges. All Stephon did was state his opinion that LB only wanted Francis in order to ouster SM. Whether or not you agree with that assessment is one thing, but it sounds pretty on to me.

That is not the same as ripping into a team/player because you don't like them or are upset with your treatment.

Here is what you wrote:
He can basically say-the guy is only here to replace me

What he actually said:
Francis WAS only brought here to replace me.

There is a big difference in tose two statements. And don't you think Francis knows that too? So why would he take offense?

Are we just trying to find a way to set these two against each other?

I think many are digging too hard to find something wrong with everything SM says. It reminds me of when every word Ewing said was made into a headline controversy. Sometimes Ewing just made a comment and it was no big deal. S0metimes SM makes a comment and it is no big deal. Actually most of the time.


oohah

It's not apples to oranges, IMO. Marbury is saying Francis was only brought here to replace him. There is no difference between what I said and what Steph is saying. If Francis was brought here only to replace Stephon, than why is Francis here? What is his role? If Steph is still here, why should Francis be here?

I re-broached the idea of Francis coming here so LB could ship out Steph about a week before Steph said it. I said that it was the ONLY way I would have believed that LB was behind bringing Francis here. It looks likely. I understand why it was done. If it is the case, it is the case.

Stepho didn't say "Francis was brought here to help the team.". He said "Francis was only brought here to replace me.". Well guess what, Steph is still here. Francis came here as dead man walking. You could tell he didn't want to be here. Now, the mentally weak Francis show up in great shape and Steph comes out and says there is no role for him here. I can understand that, Steph being the public speaking genius that he is, maybe didn't mean to insult or whatever, but the way it came out has it sounding like he is saying there is no role for Francis here.

Just the fact that Isiah and Steph are still BLAMING LB for the trade instead of just accepting the trade happened and letting it rest can't be too encouraging to Francis.

Worst part of all? You can't believe anything Steph says through his media mouth piece because you never know if what he is saying is actually what he means and yutz's like us have to actually interpret statements instead of being able to take them at face value.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 10-10-2006 11:47 PM]


He is saying that the only purpose of Francis was to replace him. He is not saying anything bad or dereogatory about Francis. In fact, just saying that he was brought in to replace SM is sort of a compliment in a Marbury sort of way.

The way I am reading what you are saying, you're making it sound like Marbury still believes that Francis is here to replace him. Big difference to me.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
joec32033
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10/11/2006  12:36 AM
Posted by oohah:


He is saying that the only purpose of Francis was to replace him. He is not saying anything bad or dereogatory about Francis. In fact, just saying that he was brought in to replace SM is sort of a compliment in a Marbury sort of way.

The way I am reading what you are saying, you're making it sound like Marbury still believes that Francis is here to replace him. Big difference to me.

oohah

If the only purpose of Francis is to replace Steph, and Step is STILL here, where does that leave Francis?

That bolded satement is a little outlandish. A compliment? Serious? Some-such as myself-believe that the overall package of Marbury is not anything more than a long pubic hair better than Francis. That's not a compliment. This whole statement is a little "Hey Larry, I won" braggadacio from Stephon.

The way I am meaning it to come across is that Steph AND Isiah are still BLAMING Larry for acquiring Steve. Steph is saying the one thing Steve was brought here to do-replace Steph-Steve is not capable of doing.

This statement is in no way a "compliment" for Francis. Anytime you are still BLAMING the guy who acquired someone, when the guy they acquired is STILL HERE not only hurts his confidence but also kills his trade value.
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eViL
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10/11/2006  1:18 AM
Joe, just quit trying. He doesn't get what you are saying. He's not trying to get what you are saying. You are making your point crystal clear. There's nothing you can do.

There's two types of people here. There are people here who just flat-out unconditionally love Marbury. And then there are smart people...

[Edited by - eViL on 10-11-2006 01:18 AM]
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oohah
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10/11/2006  1:31 AM
If the only purpose of Francis is to replace Steph, and Step is STILL here, where does that leave Francis?

It leaves Francis in the position of being coached by a coach who wants to play him the best he can, and get the most out of his abilities, either to make him a part of the team or to get something good back for him. This is a much better situation than what he was in under LB.
That bolded satement is a little outlandish. A compliment? Serious?

Not outlandish. The point is that Marbury believed that Francis is good enough that he could be considered a replacement for him.
Some-such as myself-believe that the overall package of Marbury is not anything more than a long pubic hair better than Francis. That's not a compliment.

I don't get you. What does that have to do with anything? Marbury believes he is pretty good and he believes that Francis is good enough to be considered a replacement. It does not matter what your or my assessment of them is. We are talking about what Marbury meant.
This whole statement is a little "Hey Larry, I won" braggadacio from Stephon.

True. He should have said: "How sweet it is!"
The way I am meaning it to come across is that Steph AND Isiah are still BLAMING Larry for acquiring Steve.

Not in this statement. There is no blaming. In this statement he is just calling LB a liar.
Steph is saying the one thing Steve was brought here to do-replace Steph-Steve is not capable of doing.

Please pull for me the snippet where you read or interpreted that from.
This statement is in no way a "compliment" for Francis. Anytime you are still BLAMING the guy who acquired someone, when the guy they acquired is STILL HERE not only hurts his confidence but also kills his trade value.

There was no blaming. Again, he was simply calling LB a liar. You're doing a New York Media job on this quote Joe. You're making mountains out of non-existent molehills.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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10/11/2006  1:37 AM
Joe, just quit trying. He doesn't get what you are saying. He's not trying to get what you are saying. You are making your point crystal clear. There's nothing you can do.

There's two types of people here. There are people here who just flat-out unconditionally love Marbury. And then there are smart people...

Really? I thought there were 2 kinds of people:

Men. Gentlemen even, who can argue 2 sides of an issue in an expressive, respectful and thoughtful manner,

And then there are boorish, inarticulate, and pathetic bottom feeders who since they do not have the knowledge or ability to express themselves, resort to insults hurled from their dingy and pathetic peanut gallery while others are conversing...

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
eViL
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10/11/2006  1:39 AM
Posted by oohah:
Joe, just quit trying. He doesn't get what you are saying. He's not trying to get what you are saying. You are making your point crystal clear. There's nothing you can do.

There's two types of people here. There are people here who just flat-out unconditionally love Marbury. And then there are smart people...

Really? I thought there were 2 kinds of people:

Men. Gentlemen even, who can argue 2 sides of an issue in an expressive, respectful and thoughtful manner,

And then there are boorish, inarticulate, and pathetic bottom feeders who since they do not have the knowledge or ability to express themselves, resort to insults hurled from their dingy and pathetic peanut gallery while others are conversing...

oohah

Don't cry oohah. Hold back them tears.
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oohah
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10/11/2006  1:44 AM
And then there are boorish, inarticulate, and pathetic bottom feeders who since they do not have the knowledge or ability to express themselves, resort to insults hurled from their dingy and pathetic peanut gallery while others are conversing...

The proof of the pudding, illustrated to perfection:
Don't cry oohah. Hold back them tears.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
islesfan
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10/11/2006  1:51 AM
Posted by oohah:
Joe, just quit trying. He doesn't get what you are saying. He's not trying to get what you are saying. You are making your point crystal clear. There's nothing you can do.

There's two types of people here. There are people here who just flat-out unconditionally love Marbury. And then there are smart people...

Really? I thought there were 2 kinds of people:

Men. Gentlemen even, who can argue 2 sides of an issue in an expressive, respectful and thoughtful manner,

And then there are boorish, inarticulate, and pathetic bottom feeders who since they do not have the knowledge or ability to express themselves, resort to insults hurled from their dingy and pathetic peanut gallery while others are conversing...

oohah

Let me guess, you think you're the former. Absolutely hysterical.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
oohah
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10/11/2006  1:54 AM
Let me guess, you think you're the former. Absolutely hysterical.

You're still hanging on to me after all this time? Damn, I have to wipe more thoroughly!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
islesfan
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10/11/2006  1:55 AM
Posted by oohah:
Let me guess, you think you're the former. Absolutely hysterical.

You're still hanging on to me after all this time? Damn, I have to wipe more thoroughly!

oohah

There he goes being a respectful gentleman again.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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10/11/2006  1:57 AM
Posted by oohah:
And then there are boorish, inarticulate, and pathetic bottom feeders who since they do not have the knowledge or ability to express themselves, resort to insults hurled from their dingy and pathetic peanut gallery while others are conversing...

The proof of the pudding, illustrated to perfection:
Don't cry oohah. Hold back them tears.

oohah

Don't worry eVil, I think that was sort of a compliment, in an oohah sort of way.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
oohah
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10/11/2006  2:01 AM
There he goes being a respectful gentleman again.

Unfortunately there are some like yourself who cannot help but behave like a dunce because your basketball knowledge is thin at best, and I must deal with those types accordingly.

Now let me ask you a question: You have been following me around this board doing your pathetic peanut-gallery insult routine for over a week now. Why are you sweating me? I guess you...how did you put it? Must have had your "widdle feelings hurt".

You know how you accuse RV of having you on the brain? Well, take a look in the mirror bub, 'cause you can't get me out of your mind...obviously.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 11-10-2006 02:05 AM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
islesfan
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10/11/2006  2:17 AM
Posted by oohah:
There he goes being a respectful gentleman again.

Unfortunately there are some like yourself who cannot help but behave like a dunce because your basketball knowledge is thin at best, and I must deal with those types accordingly.

Now let me ask you a question: You have been following me around this board doing your pathetic peanut-gallery insult routine for over a week now. Why are you sweating me? I guess you...how did you put it? Must have had your "widdle feelings hurt".

You know how you accuse RV of having you on the brain? Well, take a look in the mirror bub, 'cause you can't get me out of your mind...obviously.

oohah
[Edited by - oohah on 11-10-2006 02:05 AM]

I see, the devil made you do it. You're really a great guy but are forced to behave the way you do through absolutely no fault of your own. Got it.

Sweating you? Not in the least. Maybe you didn't know this but responding to other people's posts is what people do on message boards.

RV just puts me into his posts for no apparent reason other than the fact that I've totally gotten to him. I'm just responding to your posts and ridiculing them when appropriate. There is a HUGE difference. You would think that someone that could decipher what Marbury was talking about could figure it out.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
oohah
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10/11/2006  2:25 AM
I see, the devil made you do it. You're really a great guy but are forced to behave the way you do through absolutely no fault of your own. Got it.

No you don't get it. I put the smack down on half-wits who cannot remain on topic but prefer to engage in insults. Sometimes, like yourself, they get their "Widdle feelings hurt". Smarting, they follow me around from thread to thread---just like you are doing!
Sweating you? Not in the least. Maybe you didn't know this but responding to other people's posts is what people do on message boards.

You are sweating me. You are one pitiful dude. You are following me around from thread to thread commenting on me and not talking about basketball.

You don't concern me. I don't need to follow you around or refer to you or take potshots at you. You are a non-entity to me.

However, I understand you are starved for human relationships, so you prefer to go at it with me rather than return to your bleak day to day life.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
islesfan
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10/11/2006  2:45 AM
Posted by oohah:
I see, the devil made you do it. You're really a great guy but are forced to behave the way you do through absolutely no fault of your own. Got it.

No you don't get it. I put the smack down on half-wits who cannot remain on topic but prefer to engage in insults. Sometimes, like yourself, they get their "Widdle feelings hurt". Smarting, they follow me around from thread to thread---just like you are doing!
Sweating you? Not in the least. Maybe you didn't know this but responding to other people's posts is what people do on message boards.

You are sweating me. You are one pitiful dude. You are following me around from thread to thread commenting on me and not talking about basketball.

You don't concern me. I don't need to follow you around or refer to you or take potshots at you. You are a non-entity to me.

However, I understand you are starved for human relationships, so you prefer to go at it with me rather than return to your bleak day to day life.

oohah

Actually we were talking basketball but you couldn't stand losing an argument and resorted to what you're doing now. Pretty typical of you really. It's amazing how highly you think of yourself but I imagine that that's the only way to validate yourself.

Again, try to keep up with the machinations of a message board. People post, people respond to posts. It's really quite simple.

I really do enjoy toying with people who are so incredibly full of themselves for no apparent reason.

By the way, did you happen to notice how many people thought Rasheed was a better player than Frye? Interesting, huh?

Ok, go back to being a respectful gentleman now.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
oohah
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10/11/2006  3:07 AM
Actually we were talking basketball but you couldn't stand losing an argument and resorted to what you're doing now. Pretty typical of you really. It's amazing how highly you think of yourself but I imagine that that's the only way to validate yourself.

Losing? Har!

Yes, I resorted to behaving like you. I must watch out for that.

I know to a person of your incredibly low esteem must take offense to confident people like myself, and that is why you are following me around sweating me.
Again, try to keep up with the machinations of a message board. People post, people respond to posts. It's really quite simple.

And people who follow others around quite probably have a complex! Again, you are sweating me. Don't try to deny it, it's a fact!
I really do enjoy toying with people who are so incredibly full of themselves for no apparent reason.

Really you do? I would enjoy it too, but I have...what do you call it again? Oh, that's right! A life!
By the way, did you happen to notice how many people thought Rasheed was a better player than Frye? Interesting, huh?

It's like you have a grade school crush on me! I would be flattered, but it's a little creepy...

Interesting, when did I say that Frye was better than Rasheed? He will be soon, but he isn't quite yet. Close though. Too bad you have to make things up in order to get something on me. Maybe one day...

And I don't care if everybody believes differently from me, but I guess the validation of others is very important to you. Perhaps one day you can be your own man, or at least A man.
Ok, go back to being a respectful gentleman now.

Okay, go back to under your rock, and I'll expect to see Isles the troll swinging from my nuts next time I post. Too bad I "hurt your widdle feelings...", maybe one day you will get me off of your mind.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 11-10-2006 03:08 AM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
rvhoss
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10/11/2006  6:21 AM
how did I get dragged into this islesfat?

With respect to the blame game, you guys have to start to think a little, Marbury said Francis was brought in to replace him.

it's true. I believed it as soon as the trade happened. My hope was that one of them would finish the season better than the other and the other was gone.

I had no idea they would both stink up the joint equally.

this year, we can see if it was brown the entire time.
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rvhoss
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10/11/2006  6:22 AM
dang, forgot to send a jab at islesfat.
all kool aid all the time.
joec32033
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10/11/2006  9:04 AM
It leaves Francis in the position of being coached by a coach who wants to play him the best he can, and get the most out of his abilities, either to make him a part of the team or to get something good back for him. This is a much better situation than what he was in under LB.
No, this is the situaion he was in WITH LB. Think about it. I'll give you that LB was behind getting Stevie here JUST for the whole purpose of getting rid of Steph-which I believe is totally possible. What better way to get rid of Steph than treat Stevie the same way you are describing the way Isiah will treat him. Francis is mentally weak. You could tell he didn't want to be here last season.

I also disagree with the attitude you say Isiah will have towards Stevie. He has already went on record as saying this isn't his move, he wouldn't have done it, it was all LB, and Francis isn't a good fit here. He said the EXACT same things about Qyntel, and look where Qyntel is now.
Not outlandish. The point is that Marbury believed that Francis is good enough that he could be considered a replacement for him.
And this is the fundamental problem with Marbury. He has such a high opinion of himself that now he feels he can say which guys are "good enough" to replace him. At this point, I'd take Raymond Felton over him.
I don't get you. What does that have to do with anything? Marbury believes he is pretty good and he believes that Francis is good enough to be considered a replacement. It does not matter what your or my assessment of them is. We are talking about what Marbury meant.
I refer to my previous statement. The fundamental flaw with Steph is his high opinion of himself. He is in no position to-for lack of a better term-decree that Francis is good enough to replace him.

I'd like to point out this is also not the main point I was trying to make. The main point is Steph coming out and saying that Francis is only here to replace him. That means that with Steph here, Francis has no role-all he is is a redundant piece.
True. He should have said: "How sweet it is!"
Please don't joke like that, it may give him some ideas.

Not in this statement. There is no blaming. In this statement he is just calling LB a liar.
"I think Steve Francis was brought here to play the point-guard position last year," Marbury said. "I don't think he was brought in to be a 1-2 punch. I don't know if it was to be shifted to shooting guard or [for me] to be sit down. He didn't come here for us to be a 1-2 punch. I know it wasn't meant for it to be a 1-2 punch and have this dynamic backcourt."

From Isiah-"My job is to make it work and it's a tough spot," Thomas said. "I could find a way to make them both look good. Whatever faults or negative things they can't do or don't do, my job is to put all that in the closet and not let you open that closet door. When your mom made you clean the room and you throw everything in the closet and stand by the closet door, saying the room is clean. Whatever sins and faults they have, my job is to keep it in the closet and not let it show on the MSG floor."

Very hard to misinterpret these, bro.
Please pull for me the snippet where you read or interpreted that from.
There is no snippet. But if I said I went out and bought another fridge because the old one wasn't working right, then a friend comes and fixes my old one so I don't get rid of it, what is the role of the new fridge I just wasted my money on?
There was no blaming. Again, he was simply calling LB a liar. You're doing a New York Media job on this quote Joe. You're making mountains out of non-existent molehills.
oohah, you are totally diregarding what was said. Read the quotes I pulled a little earlier. Neither is a ringing endorsement of the trade. Both are shifting the responsibility to the guy that got FIRED! Isiah saying, "It'll be tough", and "I can make them look good", Marbury inferring that Francis has no role...These are not ringing endoresements or quotes of support.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 10-11-2006 09:06 AM]
~You can't run from who you are.~
Isiah and Marbury play the blame game on Steve Francis

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