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Curry, Knicks breathless
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PhilinLA
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10/5/2006  2:34 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:

Boy, I guess no one else ever experienced the first day of suicides.

I was in basketball for 10 years and I don't have the ideal body for a basketball player (more like a squat running back) and I NEVER had to be helped to finish them.
Neither did I. But did you ever weigh 285? Can you guess how much more energy is needed to sprint at 285 that at say 190? 200? Lots.


[Edited by - PhilinLA on 10-05-2006 02:53 AM]
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
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joec32033
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10/5/2006  5:03 AM
Posted by buddapaw:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by buddapaw:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:

Boy, I guess no one else ever experienced the first day of suicides.

I was in basketball for 10 years and I don't have the ideal body for a basketball player (more like a squat running back) and I NEVER had to be helped to finish them.


I guess being a squat running back doing suicides compared to a 6 feet 11 inches and 285 pounds basketball player is credible comparison.

[Edited by - buddapaw on 10-04-2006 4:16 PM]

As is a guy that plays rec basketball, compares to a guy who-as Martin said-is paid 10 mil, has a nutritionist and can spend as many hours as he wants in the gym. Get real, it isn't like he works a 9 to 5.

Gimme a break here. So any big professional athlete has a valid excuse for not finishing a running drill? The Jets put Justin McCairns on the physically unable to perform list the FIRST day of camp when he couldn't compelete a running drill.

The amount of slack you guys cut Curry is about as long as that bottomless pit that Luke Skywalker falls down after Vader kicks his ass.


The fact of the matter is that the guy is huge so of course he will have difficulty doing these drills at least he didn't quit. You guys are grasping for anything negative and parlaying it into assumptions of riduclous proportions. Do you guys know if the was doing another form of physical activity before the suicide? I sure as hell don't why because I was not there. These writers write articles to sell the paper and ad space, so taking their word as gosple and facts is rather foolish.

And I have no problem with him having "difficulty" doing these drills. Not in the least. My problem is he had to be helped along by Lee and Q and that he looked bad enough running them that it actually stood out. The main reason it stood out was he spent (supposedly) all summer working with Grover, getting into shape and he can't complete a drill.

I understand everything about his size, but he is not the only center in the league that is tall and heavy. We just seem to have two centers (Curry can't seem to get conditioned and JJ can't stay healthy enough to finish a suicide whenever he starts one). Araujo is 290, Jackie Butler is 260, Bynum is 275, Kelvin Cato is 275, Diop is 280, Foyle is 270...http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players?league=nba&position=c. Point being, there are other big guys out there and for whatever reason, I have never heard them on the verge of collapse on their first day of training camp.

I think the bottom line to this whole argument is a simple one. If the problem is Curry's size, if he is to big-as he has been then for 6 years-why hasn't he gotten down to the 270 range? Why has he topped 300? Why can he work all summer, only look marginally better, and then his conditioning be shot?

If 285 is too much weight for him as alot of guys are contending, fine. I'll give you that. Then it worries me why he can't get blow that 280 mark in the 6+ years he has been in the league. Coming out of high school he was 300http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/eddycurry.htm.

Now if that IS the case, that he should be smaller, here is a quote from Tim Grover on Eddy Curry-
But the articles have something that I always find interesting: top-level NBA trainers talking shop. In the Chicago Sun-Times, writer Lacy Banks has this quote from Michael Jordan's former trainer Tim Grover:

"I called John Paxson and said, 'John, what weight do you want to see Eddy at?' John said 285 pounds. I sent Eddy back at 282, and it was through hard work that Eddy put in while following a very strict diet. He was extremely motivated because he wanted to show the Bulls that he could get to the weight they wanted with the hope that he would receive a contract extension. I felt 285 was too light for a player with Eddy's huge frame, but he was the property of the Chicago Bulls. That's the weight they wanted him at, and that's what we agreed to do.''


285 is a lot of weight. Hardly anyone in the NBA weighs that much. But the idea that Curry should weigh more--it's just to crazy it might be right!http://www.truehoop.com/new-york-knicks-8473-supertrainer-tim-grover-on-eddy-curry.html

So Grover says he should be bigger, but everyone else says he can't play alot of minutes or be in well enough condition to run on the first day of camp because he is too big? When will he conundrum end?
~You can't run from who you are.~
joec32033
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10/5/2006  5:04 AM
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:

Boy, I guess no one else ever experienced the first day of suicides.

I was in basketball for 10 years and I don't have the ideal body for a basketball player (more like a squat running back) and I NEVER had to be helped to finish them.
Neither did I. But did you ever weigh 285? Can you guess how much more energy is needed to sprint at 285 that at say 190? 200? Lots.


[Edited by - PhilinLA on 10-05-2006 02:53 AM]

See my above post. If Curry is too big to run, he should be smaller. In 6 years he hasn't been smaller than 280.
~You can't run from who you are.~
fishmike
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10/5/2006  8:04 AM
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:

Boy, I guess no one else ever experienced the first day of suicides.

I was in basketball for 10 years and I don't have the ideal body for a basketball player (more like a squat running back) and I NEVER had to be helped to finish them.
Neither did I. But did you ever weigh 285? Can you guess how much more energy is needed to sprint at 285 that at say 190? 200? Lots.


[Edited by - PhilinLA on 10-05-2006 02:53 AM]
who cares about sprinting... this was just to make a point, but apparently it also takes too much energy to box out and move one's feet on defense at 285 as well.

Funny thing is, Curry probably hasnt smelled 285 since his junior year of high school

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rvhoss
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10/5/2006  9:28 AM
no worries.

The running team is frye/lee/jj/crawford and qrich.

Yep, I left marbury (and francis) out of that equation.

the heat showed, yet again, that in the playoffs, it's about fundamental basketball.

Get it to the post, establish a double team, pass out of the double team, if there is no shot, try the pick and roll.

RUnning and gunning is for fans and wins during the season when the team can't adjust for tomorrow's game 3.

Curry's job is to establish a post game and play defense as best he can. Use up his energy getting the other team's bigs into foul trouble and then we abuse the second unit with the up and down squad.

Curry isn't even the franchise IMHO.

Crawford is mr. Clutch and Frye has the tools and intangibles to be the franchise.

Curry is a key piece to the puzzle. But I'd be happy with a lee/frye tandem and craw running the show as the future of the knicks.

Marbury/Francis and company are there to execute plays in crunch time, but in terms of running this season and "stealing" wins, IMHO that's JJ2, lee, frye, crawford and Qrich's (yep, qrich) job.

I think zeke is going to run marbs/francis until one or both of them break.

the fans are looking to see a show for thier money, and marbury is the starbury, lee/frye/crawford are the future.

If we sprinkle in curry and JJ...then IMHO, we have a playoff rotation.

Heaven forbid francis lives up to his billing.

I would have been shocked had curry not had any fat issues...I mean seriously, did you believe the guy was going to be an adonis?

NO worries.

Go knicks.

ps loved the fat albert, pessimist/optimist/police back and forth as well. Fish, what's eating you today...you seem anti knick again.
all kool aid all the time.
martin
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10/5/2006  11:27 AM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by Masterplan:

screw JJ for getting injured and making eddy bring up the rear on those suicides all be himself


It's like a party thrown by a fat girl. The most important guest? The girl who is fatter than her!

oohah

oh man, that's the funniest thing I have heard in a while!
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wsdm
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10/5/2006  11:45 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by Masterplan:

screw JJ for getting injured and making eddy bring up the rear on those suicides all be himself


It's like a party thrown by a fat girl. The most important guest? The girl who is fatter than her!

oohah

oh man, that's the funniest thing I have heard in a while!

Yeah, that was a great one!
www.selltheknicks.com----No more DOLANOMICS!
PhilinLA
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10/5/2006  12:34 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:

Boy, I guess no one else ever experienced the first day of suicides.

I was in basketball for 10 years and I don't have the ideal body for a basketball player (more like a squat running back) and I NEVER had to be helped to finish them.
Neither did I. But did you ever weigh 285? Can you guess how much more energy is needed to sprint at 285 that at say 190? 200? Lots.


[Edited by - PhilinLA on 10-05-2006 02:53 AM]

See my above post. If Curry is too big to run, he should be smaller. In 6 years he hasn't been smaller than 280.
He lost weight this offseason, and that probably meant fewer carbs. First day of camp he's asked to do a lot more work than the other guys by virtue of his size, and he goes anaerobic and gets out of breath. Not a surprise and not a red flag.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
joec32033
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10/5/2006  4:40 PM
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:

Boy, I guess no one else ever experienced the first day of suicides.

I was in basketball for 10 years and I don't have the ideal body for a basketball player (more like a squat running back) and I NEVER had to be helped to finish them.
Neither did I. But did you ever weigh 285? Can you guess how much more energy is needed to sprint at 285 that at say 190? 200? Lots.


[Edited by - PhilinLA on 10-05-2006 02:53 AM]

See my above post. If Curry is too big to run, he should be smaller. In 6 years he hasn't been smaller than 280.
He lost weight this offseason, and that probably meant fewer carbs. First day of camp he's asked to do a lot more work than the other guys by virtue of his size, and he goes anaerobic and gets out of breath. Not a surprise and not a red flag.

Ok...so basically since Curry didn't have any toast for breakfast he couldn't run? Come on this is ridiculous...Now Curry needs a perfect diet just to run wind sprints? What the hell does he need for an NBA game? Anabolic steroids with a cocaine chaser for that extra oomph?

If "he didn't have enough carbs" is the best excuse for not being able to run, I gotta store that one away for work.

"Sorry boss, didn't have enough carbs today, I just don't have the energy to work today. Wanna get that new guy over there to help me out? I know I should be able to do this myself, but you know how that low carb count gets me every time!".
~You can't run from who you are.~
SugarRayRichardson
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10/5/2006  5:05 PM
Rumor has it Frye came in second to last in these wind sprints yesterday. Bash away on Frye now. :)
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
SugarRayRichardson
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10/5/2006  5:08 PM
Curry aside low carbs wouldnt be an excuse. It would be the truth for me. Thats why I carb cycle to hit my high on game days. I go on a 3 day cycle.
no to low carbs
low carbs
high carbs.
That way I have peak energy come game time. In the past when I was almost all protein and no carbs I had no legs on game days and my work outs sufferred big time as well. Now my glycogen stored works for me on game days/workout days but I stay in fat burning mode still 4-5 days a week.
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
joec32033
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10/5/2006  6:22 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

Rumor has it Frye came in second to last in these wind sprints yesterday. Bash away on Frye now. :)

Did Nate have to carry him across the finish line? Nate was gonna offer to carry Eddy the other day, but figured he could only bench about 315, sooooooo.......
~You can't run from who you are.~
Vmart
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10/5/2006  8:08 PM
Purpose of practice is to go all out and get tired so when its game time you are not tired. Curry being tired running wind sprints is a good sign. He is working hard getting tired so he won't be tired in game situation.

Those who have played any type of organized ball whether in High School or College knows that practice was always harder than the real game. I use to go home sore after practice tired and worn out. But after real games I was never as worn out.

What was encouraging about Curry is that he was willing to do the Sprints even though he was worn out. He had an out he didn't take it. Thats a positive sign.

People need to stop looking for negatives, There is more positive vibes going on with the Knicks players then there is on this board and I happen to think the players feed of positivity rather than negativity. Whats funny about this Curry episode is that he finished his wind sprints, people are killing him for finishing his wind sprints, he might have been last but most big men are the last guarantee Shaq is aways last on his team. Come on guys cut the man a break he will get better with the wind sprints.
newyorknewyork
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10/5/2006  9:56 PM
I thought our offensive plan was going to be the triangle offense, mixed in with the UCLA cut & shuffle or offense whatever its called, mixed in with Bobby Knights offensive plan from Indiana.

Do the Suns run that type of offense? There style is unique that they push everything. Even when an opponent scores they inbound quickly and push the ball. I don't think we are going to play like that. Just a lot more movement in the form of cutting and changing to from one formation to another.

Also Eddie Curry played 43mins vs the Pheniox Suns in that overtime win. Where he put up 20pts 15rebs. So he not only played there pace but he played 43mins of it and produced. While being out of shape last season.

So he can do it, but he needs to want it. And he needs to be put in position to be succeed.
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nixluva
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10/5/2006  10:04 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

I thought our offensive plan was going to be the triangle offense, mixed in with the UCLA cut & shuffle or offense whatever its called, mixed in with Bobby Knights offensive plan from Indiana.

Do the Suns run that type of offense? There style is unique that they push everything. Even when an opponent scores they inbound quickly and push the ball. I don't think we are going to play like that. Just a lot more movement in the form of cutting and changing to from one formation to another.

Also Eddie Curry played 43mins vs the Pheniox Suns in that overtime win. Where he put up 20pts 15rebs. So he not only played there pace but he played 43mins of it and produced. While being out of shape last season.

So he can do it, but he needs to want it. And he needs to be put in position to be succeed.

YUP! Isiah said that he's not looking to necessarly push tempo as much as be efficient on offense. sometimes they'll run, but I believe mostly they looked to get the best shot possible. This team isn't designed to be a Run & Gun offense like the Suns, but we'll definitely see more scoring and more early offense than we saw before. Curry played an overtime game against the Celtics in the very 1st game and he was in there for 42 mins. I do believe that Curry can play 30+ mins. Certainly there were games last year that he was taken out of that had nothing to do with stamina.
Allanfan20
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10/5/2006  10:11 PM
I'm not really going to go crazy over something like that b/c we simply don't know facts about what Eddie went through the rest of that day. Maybe Isiah had him working harder than everyone else b/c he does realize that Eddie means more to the team than anyone else. I'm just not gonna get worked up over something like that, as people get winded all the time doing sprints, and some athletes even collapse. Eddie didn't.

I think the real test will come when he gets the heavy minutes in November.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
PhilinLA
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10/5/2006  10:38 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:

Boy, I guess no one else ever experienced the first day of suicides.

I was in basketball for 10 years and I don't have the ideal body for a basketball player (more like a squat running back) and I NEVER had to be helped to finish them.
Neither did I. But did you ever weigh 285? Can you guess how much more energy is needed to sprint at 285 that at say 190? 200? Lots.


[Edited by - PhilinLA on 10-05-2006 02:53 AM]

See my above post. If Curry is too big to run, he should be smaller. In 6 years he hasn't been smaller than 280.
He lost weight this offseason, and that probably meant fewer carbs. First day of camp he's asked to do a lot more work than the other guys by virtue of his size, and he goes anaerobic and gets out of breath. Not a surprise and not a red flag.

Ok...so basically since Curry didn't have any toast for breakfast he couldn't run? Come on this is ridiculous...Now Curry needs a perfect diet just to run wind sprints? What the hell does he need for an NBA game? Anabolic steroids with a cocaine chaser for that extra oomph?

If "he didn't have enough carbs" is the best excuse for not being able to run, I gotta store that one away for work.

"Sorry boss, didn't have enough carbs today, I just don't have the energy to work today. Wanna get that new guy over there to help me out? I know I should be able to do this myself, but you know how that low carb count gets me every time!".
I'm sorry if you don't get the effects of carbs on available energy, or that it takes a lot more engine power to move 285 than it does to move 200. They are simple concepts.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
joec32033
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10/6/2006  4:42 AM
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by PhilinLA:

Boy, I guess no one else ever experienced the first day of suicides.

I was in basketball for 10 years and I don't have the ideal body for a basketball player (more like a squat running back) and I NEVER had to be helped to finish them.
Neither did I. But did you ever weigh 285? Can you guess how much more energy is needed to sprint at 285 that at say 190? 200? Lots.


[Edited by - PhilinLA on 10-05-2006 02:53 AM]

See my above post. If Curry is too big to run, he should be smaller. In 6 years he hasn't been smaller than 280.
He lost weight this offseason, and that probably meant fewer carbs. First day of camp he's asked to do a lot more work than the other guys by virtue of his size, and he goes anaerobic and gets out of breath. Not a surprise and not a red flag.

Ok...so basically since Curry didn't have any toast for breakfast he couldn't run? Come on this is ridiculous...Now Curry needs a perfect diet just to run wind sprints? What the hell does he need for an NBA game? Anabolic steroids with a cocaine chaser for that extra oomph?

If "he didn't have enough carbs" is the best excuse for not being able to run, I gotta store that one away for work.

"Sorry boss, didn't have enough carbs today, I just don't have the energy to work today. Wanna get that new guy over there to help me out? I know I should be able to do this myself, but you know how that low carb count gets me every time!".
I'm sorry if you don't get the effects of carbs on available energy, or that it takes a lot more engine power to move 285 than it does to move 200. They are simple concepts.

Simple concepts that are being used as excuses. You are acting like Eddy never weighed 285 pounds before this week and never had an NBA practice.
~You can't run from who you are.~
oohah
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10/6/2006  4:50 AM
^^^ Joe, do you think that Curry will be in good enough shape to play well?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
joec32033
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10/6/2006  5:00 AM
Posted by oohah:

^^^ Joe, do you think that Curry will be in good enough shape to play well?

oohah

Curry on a bad day is 15 and 6. Curry on a good day is 22 and 9(if he actually is determined to be a better ball player).

I think that Curry may be physically unable to perform at an ultra high level(a level is is capable of) at anything above 275 (even though I posted an article that quoted Tim Grover as saying Curry should be bigger). It just seems his conditioning is very bad and his body can't handle being 280+.

Why he can't seem to carry this much weight and a kid like Bynum can(at the very least being better conditioned,) I don't know.

Curry's baseline is 15/16 and 6. I am sure he is going to healthy enough to average that. I don't like the offense that Isiah is oing to run when guys like Channing(at least I think), Curry, Craw, Steph, Francis seem better suited for more of a half court game.
~You can't run from who you are.~
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