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crzymdups
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7/14/2006  5:36 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Anji:

Posted by Solace:
Posted by Anji:

I don't know, the mavs looked great doing the samething.

This is the same, much like chairs and lobsters are the same.

When Cuban shelled out the money, he always was considered to have gotten the better end of the deal. How many times has that happened since Isiah has been here? He even traded a star that didn't fit his team (Jamison), got another very good player (Stackhouse) and a #5 pick (Harris). When has Isiah ever done such?

They're as alike as night and day.
^^ Yeah, Cuban(owner) = Isiah(GM)???? Who was talking about spending, I was talking about the fact that the mavs looked good with a point by committe back court.

[Edited by - Anji on 07-14-2006 5:21 PM]

The Mavs don't have so many players in the backcourt that MUST dominate the ball to be effective. That's the main difference. The Mavs team plays complimentary.

Stackhouse and Terry were both known as ballhogs at various points in their career. Stack once averaged 29ppg on 39% shooting in Detroit.

the other thing to remember with Dallas is that they went through a period where they amassed a lot of assets that didn't make sense and were able to build a real team eventually - Tawn Jamison, Toine Walker, Finley, Stackhouse, etc. It was a crowded mess. they were able to thin it out and make a real team.
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misterearl
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7/14/2006  5:37 PM
Hey, who wrote THIS?

>>And Balkman did things that didn't show up in the stat sheet and only lost in a game where the Knicks faced a top five player in the NBA. but, yeah, good comparison.

>>the entire point of drafting Balkman is that he does things away from the ball, moves without the ball, plays defense, creates turnovers, etc.

Balkman does the things that count in a team context.

Blue collar guys. Workers. Relentless energy. Rebounding. DEE-fense. Tempo. Excitement. Speed. The same things that players are absolutely lauded for most times. The things the Knicks were desperate for.

But not now - because it was Isiah Thomas in charge of the selection.

I really don't see what the problem is.
once a knick always a knick
Solace
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7/14/2006  5:40 PM
Posted by misterearl:

I really don't see what the problem is.

... and that is by choice. You choose not to see, because it would mean your argument is foolish.

Realize that nobody is knocking Balkman. It is bull the lengths that people will go to defend us taking a player 20 or more slots too early.

I'm sure your next post will miss this point again, though.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
misterearl
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7/14/2006  5:41 PM
>>ISorry for using phrasing you're not familiar with, earl.

Solace - i need a thesaurus. do you need a hug?
once a knick always a knick
Solace
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7/14/2006  5:43 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>>ISorry for using phrasing you're not familiar with, earl.

Solace - i need a thesaurus. do you need a hug?

If the hug is from Jenna Jamison (reference to another thread), ok.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
crzymdups
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7/14/2006  5:45 PM
Posted by nyballer:

hey, if you're gonna point out marcus williams stats minus his two best games to make a point, i thought i'd show you how even in his worst performances he was better statistically than balkman. i like balkman, but i think we missed out big time by not getting williams too.

I'm sorry, but if you think someone who averaged 10.6ppg on 22% shooting is more efficient and better statistically than someone shoots 75%!... I don't know what to say to you. 22% shooting is atrocious and should be outlawed in fifty states. if Balkman shot 30 times a game and scored 20ppg, he would not be a better player than he is now - he would be far worse.
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Solace
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7/14/2006  5:49 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyballer:

hey, if you're gonna point out marcus williams stats minus his two best games to make a point, i thought i'd show you how even in his worst performances he was better statistically than balkman. i like balkman, but i think we missed out big time by not getting williams too.

I'm sorry, but if you think someone who averaged 10.6ppg on 22% shooting is more efficient and better statistically than someone shoots 75%!... I don't know what to say to you. 22% shooting is atrocious and should be outlawed in fifty states. if Balkman shot 30 times a game and scored 20ppg, he would not be a better player than he is now - he would be far worse.

I do have to say you are comparing apples and oranges. To dismiss his two best games (top 40%) is a little silly, no? A better argument would be that from a very small sample size, he appears to be a streaky shooter. To say he's a poor shooter based on three games (out of 5) is a very weak argument.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
crzymdups
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7/14/2006  5:49 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by misterearl:

I really don't see what the problem is.

... and that is by choice. You choose not to see, because it would mean your argument is foolish.

Realize that nobody is knocking Balkman. It is bull the lengths that people will go to defend us taking a player 20 or more slots too early.

I'm sure your next post will miss this point again, though.

Ben Wallace went undrafted, if someone had taken him third overall would that have been too high because they could have gambled that he would be available as a free agent pickup or should they have just selected the guy they coveted?

I'm not saying this guy is Ben Wallace, but I am saying that Isiah coveted this guy and we are starting to see why. But maybe if Isiah passed on him, someone takes him before 29, maybe Isiah wanted Collins and Balkman all along and he felt there was a better chance of Collins lasting to 29 than Balkman.

Isiah drafted two players who play team, defense-oriented basketball. this is exactly what EVERYONE wanted going into the draft. now, Isiah makes the right picks and certain folks just can't get over that needs-the-ball-to-be-effective offensive star who plays no defense. come on.

even Larry Brown liked the guys Isiah drafted.
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crzymdups
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7/14/2006  5:50 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyballer:

hey, if you're gonna point out marcus williams stats minus his two best games to make a point, i thought i'd show you how even in his worst performances he was better statistically than balkman. i like balkman, but i think we missed out big time by not getting williams too.

I'm sorry, but if you think someone who averaged 10.6ppg on 22% shooting is more efficient and better statistically than someone shoots 75%!... I don't know what to say to you. 22% shooting is atrocious and should be outlawed in fifty states. if Balkman shot 30 times a game and scored 20ppg, he would not be a better player than he is now - he would be far worse.

I do have to say you are comparing apples and oranges. To dismiss his two best games (top 40%) is a little silly, no? A better argument would be that from a very small sample size, he appears to be a streaky shooter. To say he's a poor shooter based on three games (out of 5) is a very weak argument.

that was a joke. Briggs taking his worst game out of a five game sample and tossing it out was the thing I was responding to. the fact that someone tried to act like Balkman's stats are worse than those stats is also a joke though.
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Solace
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7/14/2006  5:57 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by misterearl:

I really don't see what the problem is.

... and that is by choice. You choose not to see, because it would mean your argument is foolish.

Realize that nobody is knocking Balkman. It is bull the lengths that people will go to defend us taking a player 20 or more slots too early.

I'm sure your next post will miss this point again, though.

Ben Wallace went undrafted, if someone had taken him third overall would that have been too high because they could have gambled that he would be available as a free agent pickup or should they have just selected the guy they coveted?

I'm not saying this guy is Ben Wallace, but I am saying that Isiah coveted this guy and we are starting to see why. But maybe if Isiah passed on him, someone takes him before 29, maybe Isiah wanted Collins and Balkman all along and he felt there was a better chance of Collins lasting to 29 than Balkman.

Isiah drafted two players who play team, defense-oriented basketball. this is exactly what EVERYONE wanted going into the draft. now, Isiah makes the right picks and certain folks just can't get over that needs-the-ball-to-be-effective offensive star who plays no defense. come on.

even Larry Brown liked the guys Isiah drafted.

Yes! Ben Wallace at #3 is a bad pick if he's on nobody else's radar! Why waste a high pick on him at #3 when you can use a second round pick (or even a later first round pick) and still get him PLUS also get a #3?

Same argument for Balkman. From what we know, he was on nobody's radar at that high. Again, going off the information we know. I don't believe for a second that Isiah had (accurate) information that Balkman was slated to go in the 21-28 range, because we likely would've heard about it too.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
crzymdups
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7/14/2006  6:08 PM
Posted by Solace:

Yes! Ben Wallace at #3 is a bad pick if he's on nobody else's radar! Why waste a high pick on him at #3 when you can use a second round pick (or even a later first round pick) and still get him PLUS also get a #3?

Same argument for Balkman. From what we know, he was on nobody's radar at that high. Again, going off the information we know. I don't believe for a second that Isiah had (accurate) information that Balkman was slated to go in the 21-28 range, because we likely would've heard about it too.

what if, oops, you're wrong and he WAS on someone's radar and you lose the guy you covet?

why gamble if you have a guy you love who fills your biggest need? and why do that only to stockpile talent at a position where you already have an overload that at least 10 teams who reasonably had a need for him passed on? if Marcus Williams was so coveted, teams like Philly and Indiana never should have passed on him - they had more glaring needs at PG
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Solace
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7/14/2006  6:48 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

if Marcus Williams was so coveted, teams like Philly and Indiana never should have passed on him - they had more glaring needs at PG

Agreed, but like I said the fat% thing people got caught up in. Also, do we even know that either of those teams worked him out? Furthermore, it's very possible Philly gave a promise.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
bigbeast
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7/14/2006  7:02 PM
Plenty of players get nabbed by teams they never worked out for. Gerald Green last year, Rashard Lewis, Paul Pierce, hell, Marcus Williams never worked for the Nets.

I highly doubt that Philly made a promise to Carney because most had him going a little higher.

For the hell of it, other teams that needed a point that passed on Williams: Atlanta, Houston, Seattle (there pick was confusing becuase they took a center for the third year in a row), Toronto, Portland, and Minnesota.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 07-14-2006 7:03 PM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
Solace
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7/14/2006  7:04 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

Plenty of players get nabbed by teams they never worked out for. Gerald Green last year, Rashard Lewis, Paul Pierce, hell, Marcus Williams never worked for the Nets.

I highly doubt that Philly made a promise to Carney because most had him going a little higher.

For the hell of it, other teams that needed a point that passed on Williams: Atlanta, Houston, Seattle (there pick was confusing becuase they took a center for the third year in a row), Toronto, Portland, and Minnesota.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 07-14-2006 7:03 PM]

Yes I know Marcus didn't work out for the Nets. That's my point is that sometimes the offer is too good to pass up in that scenario, but not every team will take a player they didn't work out unless it's just a complete no-brainer (like Marcus Williams was for the Nets).
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
BRIGGS
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7/14/2006  7:23 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyballer:

hey, if you're gonna point out marcus williams stats minus his two best games to make a point, i thought i'd show you how even in his worst performances he was better statistically than balkman. i like balkman, but i think we missed out big time by not getting williams too.

I'm sorry, but if you think someone who averaged 10.6ppg on 22% shooting is more efficient and better statistically than someone shoots 75%!... I don't know what to say to you. 22% shooting is atrocious and should be outlawed in fifty states. if Balkman shot 30 times a game and scored 20ppg, he would not be a better player than he is now - he would be far worse.

I do have to say you are comparing apples and oranges. To dismiss his two best games (top 40%) is a little silly, no? A better argument would be that from a very small sample size, he appears to be a streaky shooter. To say he's a poor shooter based on three games (out of 5) is a very weak argument.

If you take an NBA player and make him play 5 games in 5 nights--one of those nights he will sck--shaq duncan anyone will have a game not up to par--so you take one game out of the equation. Its reasonable--but really its not an isue. What you got out of the 4 game sample--is what you expected from a lottery pick.
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nyk4ever
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7/14/2006  7:46 PM
Posted by Anji:

I can name couple, if you want. THe bigger point is you don't know them because Isiah is the devil and 3 years of gm'ing goes superPerfect ever where else.

Why dont you name them instead of just saying you can. I don't get why Isiah gets so many chances while other GMs would have been out after last years debacle.
THe bigger point is you don't know them because Isiah is the devil and 3 years of gm'ing goes superPerfect ever where else.
I have no idea what you said there. You haven't said one bad thing about Isiah since you been here so I'm not really too sure how to take what your saying.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-14-2006 7:49 PM]
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Bernard30
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7/14/2006  8:28 PM
Bynum Far From Filling Big Shoes
The future, of course, is the 18-year-old 7 footer Andrew Bynum, drafted No. 1 a year ago by the Lakers and counted on by Jerry Buss and Mitch Kupchak to become part of the team's sacred lineage of superstar big men that includes George Mikan, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Shaquille O'Neal. Well, at this painful moment, Mr. Bynum is closer to resembling Tatum O'Neal on a basketball court than Shaquille O'Neal. At least he was during his team's Wednesday's match against the Dallas Mavericks in which (a) he missed 6 of 7 shots, (b) he had two blocked by a 6-9 forward from Texas named Brian Boddicker, (c) he scored two points in 33 minutes, (d) he fumbled several passes out of bounds, (e) he seemed to be in a semi-comatose state and (f) he was the second tallest spectator in the building behind 7-3 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Other than that, Andrew Bynum looked, well, about as disinterested in the proceedings as were some of the snoozing infants in the stands. -- Los Angeles Daily News

The point being, how about we wait to see what these guys do before we make one guy an all star and another a bust or something like it. None of us know exactly what's gonna be what. I too loved Marcus Williams but we didn't need another guard. We've got enough of them. And if you say we don't have a true point guard, fine, but Marbury needs/wants the ball in his hands and he's our star, so he's gonna get it. We all know he also averaged over 20pts. and 8 assists for his career, so even if you say he isn't a true point guard, he sure can fake it at times. I honestly believe he will be an All Star this season.

We have so many guys who need the ball in their hands, as is abundantly clear, and Balkman is gonna fill the role of role player beautifully. He will contribute this year off the bench, with his great energy with the second unit, and I for one can't wait to see him come off the bench and cause havoc. Isiah will give him his minutes and he's gonna have the chance to prove himself. Plus he's gonna be playing with a huge chip on his shoulder and it's amazing what the combination of motiviation and a constatnly running motor can get you.
"It was good," Curry said. "I killed Malik, Jerome. The usual suspects. It felt good."
newyorknewyork
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7/14/2006  10:48 PM
If we drafted Williams though. Every team in the league would know that we would absolutly have to trade Williams, Steve, Marbury. So how were we going to get value for any of them??

Who is gonna give us what we want when we are the team desperate to clear up the glut?? I think the draft proved that teams could settle for not having Williams on there roster.

Also while Williams does seem to be a great passer and all that. With Curry & Frye not being good Frontcourt defenders, & shotblockers, the fact that Williams is slow footed and a bad defender would only keep guards attacking Curry & Frye. While a guy like Collins could keep pressure off of those guys with his perimeter defense. Unless you feel Williams is talented enough to have completely go another direction and build around him.

The problem is you guys keep treating Marbury like he is some type of scrub. With the price we paid for Marbury we gotta give him another shot. I think the fact that Isiah is taking all that responsibility away from Marbury as being the creater is going to help him tremendously. This isn't the same as the way Brown was doing it as he isn't forcing Marbury to play like Charlie Ward. Stand around and shoot set jumpers from kickouts from Curry. Marbury is gonna have the ball in his hands feeding a cutter and play off the ball as a cutter scoring a layup. And he is gonna love it. The same role everyone on offense is probably going to play.
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bigbeast
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7/14/2006  10:49 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Anji:

I can name couple, if you want. THe bigger point is you don't know them because Isiah is the devil and 3 years of gm'ing goes superPerfect ever where else.

Why dont you name them instead of just saying you can. I don't get why Isiah gets so many chances while other GMs would have been out after last years debacle.
THe bigger point is you don't know them because Isiah is the devil and 3 years of gm'ing goes superPerfect ever where else.
I have no idea what you said there. You haven't said one bad thing about Isiah since you been here so I'm not really too sure how to take what your saying.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-14-2006 7:49 PM]

Here's a few:

McHale
Ainge
Elgin Baylor (after decades of futility, he won GM of the yr this past season)
Mullin
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
Anji
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7/15/2006  12:29 AM
Erine Grunfeld(6 years to get to this wizards team and didn't win 20 games twice)
Billy Knight(Took over a 35 win Hawks team and they are a 26 win hawks team four yeas later)


Can't count the clippers, even though their GM is in the same situation as Isiah, but more about manying money with zero salary. But yeah... what ever.

[Edited by - Anji on 07-15-2006 12:30 AM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
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