It's late, so I'll try to respond in greater detail at another time, but I believe in objective truth. As such, I think that compared to the US (even with Bush as president), Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, and Syria are the scum of the Earth.

Posted by simrud:

Killa is just an antisemitic racist punk. I would not recommend to anybody to waste their time agruing with him. He is not even man enough to admit he hates Jews, so he has to come up with roundabout ways of attacking them. I respect the terrorists more than I do him. At least they are ohnest in their intensions.

I know this is an OT discussion but how is this acceptable, Mods?

Time for a little levity AND the real bush...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH3Wjc9Gn6E

I'm still looking for the killa post that threw simrud into a frenzy, I mean, if you look historically, simrud is the one tossing out the extreme statements...can somebody repost, it's kind of tough reading through all the extreme opinions on politics and religion.

Oh yeah..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH3Wjc9Gn6E

[Edited by - rvhoss on 07-16-2006 10:09 AM]

[Edited by - rvhoss on 07-16-2006 10:46 AM]

Posted by simrud:

Isrealis just want to have a country, a dream of all jews around the world for thousands of years. Arabs have a dozen countries to themselves. Its that simple. When another wave of violence against the jews wil happen, and it will, at least we'll have a place to retreat to.

You can moralise all you want, but the fact of the matter is the Jewish state exists, and if you think anything short of nuclear war will bring to an end you are foolin yourself. A dream thousands of years old will not die w/out takin down at least the entire muslim middle east with it.

Muslim extrimists think they can faze Jews with martyrodm? We have been the martyr nation for thousands of yeras. Killin a few more of us will not deter us from anything. In the past all Jews have asked for while being massacred is one thing, and thats not to be saved, or justice, or even revenge. All we ever watned is to die with weapons in our hands takin as many of our eneimes down with us. Now that we have gotten that chance, the world better be scared. If Europeans or anybody else thinks they can destroy Israel, they should keep one thing in mind, Isreal has nukes. And if the situation is truly hopeless, then the only way Isreal will not exist is if the entire muslim world is a nuclear desert right along with it.

And this in a nutshell is the lunacy of religous fanatacism. Thanks for giving us a window into your level of insanity. You really have the moral high ground.

Israel Lobby Nutjobs on the Loose

By Molly Ivins, AlterNet. Posted April 26, 2006.

The abuse heaped on two academics by America's Israel lobby only proves the point that we need an honest debate on the topic.

One of the consistent deformities in American policy debate has been challenged by a couple of professors, and the reaction proves their point so neatly it's almost funny.

A working paper by John Mearsheimer, professor of political science at the University of Chicago, and Stephen Walt, professor of international affairs at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, called "The Israel Lobby" was printed in the London Review of Books earlier this month. And all hell broke loose in the more excitable reaches of journalism and academe.

For having the sheer effrontery to point out the painfully obvious -- that there is an Israel lobby in the United States -- Mearsheimer and Walt have been accused of being anti-Semitic, nutty and guilty of "kooky academic work." Alan Dershowitz, who seems to be easily upset, went totally ballistic over the mild, academic, not to suggest pretty boring article by Mearsheimer and Walt, calling them "liars" and "bigots."

Of course there is an Israeli lobby in America -- its leading working group is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). It calls itself "America's Pro-Israel Lobby," and it attempts to influence U.S. legislation and policy.

Several national Jewish organizations lobby from time to time. Big deal -- why is anyone pretending this non-news requires falling on the floor and howling? Because of this weird deformity of debate.

In the United States, we do not have full-throated, full-throttle debate about Israel. In Israel, they have it as a matter of course, but the truth is that the accusation of anti-Semitism is far too often raised in this country against anyone who criticizes the government of Israel.

Being pro-Israel is no defense, as I long ago learned to my cost. Now I've gotten used to it. Jews who criticize Israel are charmingly labeled "self-hating Jews." As I have often pointed out, that must mean there are a lot of self-hating Israelis, because those folks raise hell over their own government's policies all the time.

I don't know that I've ever felt intimidated by the knee-jerk "you're anti-Semitic" charge leveled at anyone who criticizes Israel, but I do know I have certainly heard it often enough to become tired of it.

And I wonder if that doesn't produce the same result: giving up on the discussion.

It's the sheer disproportion and the vehemence of the denunciations of those perceived as criticizing Israel that make the attacks so odious. Mearsheimer and Walt are both widely respected political scientists -- comparing their writing to "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is just silly.

Several critics have pointed out some flaws in the Mearsheimer-Walt paper, including a too-broad use of the term "Israel lobby" -- those of us who are pro-Israel differ widely -- and having perhaps overemphasized the clout of the Israel lobby by ignoring the energy lobby.

It seems to me the root of the difficulty has been Israel's inability first to admit the Palestinians have been treated unfairly and, second, to figure out what to do about it. Now here goes a big fat generalization, but I think many Jews are so accustomed (by reality) to thinking of themselves as victims, it is especially difficult for them to admit they have victimized others.

But the Mearsheimer-Walt paper is not about the basic conflict, but rather its effect on American foreign policy, and it appears to me the authors' arguments are unexceptional. Israel is the No. 1 recipient of American foreign aid, and it seems an easy case can be made that the United States has subjugated its own interests to those of Israel in the past.

Whether you agree or not, it is a discussion well worth having and one that should not be shut down before it can start by unfair accusations of "anti-Semitism." In a very equal sense, none of this is academic. The Israel lobby was overwhelmingly in favor of starting the war with Iraq and is now among the leading hawks on Iran.

To the extent that our interests do differ from those of Israel, the matter needs to be discussed calmly and fairly. This is not about conspiracies or plots or fantasies or anti-Semitism -- it's about rational discussion of American interests. And, in my case, being pro-Israel. I'm looking forward to hearing from all you nutjobs again.

Molly Ivins writes about politics, Texas and other bizarre happenings.

A peak into the brain of SIMplemindedRUD.
The irony of it all is that this is the guy who accused ME of playing the race card. YOu couldn't script it any better than this.

Hi Killa
I was leaving first 30 years of my life in Soviet Union and I know what anti-Semitism is. It was just in my face and it was also from the government...
Half of my relatives were killed by Nazi in camps - small children, pregnant women, my grand-grand Pa -he was 100+. All were burned in gas cameras...
You can talk about it.. I can feel it.
There are 6 more millions of people in Israel. And they all feel like me. They all went through this
And now tell me what you can expect. You should expect them to retaliate… big time.
But they do not. In fact they try to avoid violence as much as possible. They open to the all world and they try to help people everywhere to achieve the better future.
This is our fate and our destiny. We were chosen to do this and we will continue no meter what...

Israel is not a Democratic proxy planted by the West!

It is a country founded by a nation that has been derided and maltreated wherever they have resided for the past 2,000+ years. It is composed of individuals who yearned to return to their rightful homeland. There has always been a Jewish presence in Israel and the world’s nations through prejudice had restricted this nation from returning to their land. After the holocaust, the nations of the world conceded that they could not be trusted to host this nation and protect them from malice, as throughout history these assurances were broken and invariably tragedy arose.

The majority of Israelis want nothing more than to live in peace and be allowed to thrive, as this nation has known no peace for the better part of 2 millennia+. They have negotiated with individuals that intentionally blew up their children, with the hope that they could find that elusive peace.

But the Arab world will not allow this, partly because they can continue to use Israel as a scapegoat to draw their public’s focus away from their own corruptions and abuses and also because the presence of the Jewish nation in a land so intertwined with the legends of the prophet Mohamed’s ascension to heaven is perceived as an affront to radical Islamists. In fact the very existance of a thriving Jewish Nation is an affront to radical Islamists as the premise of their belief is that the followers of Mohamed are the new children of Israel that God alligns with in the old testament. These are individual's who practise extreem religious fanatacism and this issue should not be dismissed.

In truth, Israel is a very liberal democracy. Their politicians are elected in a fashion that is far more democratic than the two party system of the US. They have an exceptionally liberal and progressive supreme court and the checks and balances of any liberal society.

The people of Israel want peace. They have tried to engage in meaningful peace negotiations with their neighbors and have risked much to do so. All they ask in return is that their peace partner truly agrees not to aspire to wipe them out, that is all.
Now - after it is abundantly clear that they have no true peace partner; but instead neighbors who openly call for their destruction and annihilation who are backed by the majority of the Arab world - Israel is taking action to protect its survival.

Israel is currently surrounded on two fronts by militants who act as agents for the Iranian and Syrian governments who have sworn to destroy them. As time passes, technological advanced in missiles, bombs and the dispersion techniques of weapons of mass destruction are each day becoming more readily available to help them meet that promise.

The world’s economies are very dependant on the prices of oil and Iran and Syria believe that they can push the envelope just enough to sidetrack the world’s attention from their development of nuclear arms. When they get nuclear technology they will export it to their terrorist proxies across the globe to intimidate the world to do their bidding. Israel realizes this threat and realizes that the status quo of the last while is sure to destroy them… they are fighting for their lives.

Nations like China, North Korea, Russia and France are out for their own self-interests when they supply the weapons and technology to rogue nations that will be used to help a terrorist infrastructure. But these countries are concerned only for their own self interest (as are most), and Israel be damned. Now that the rest of the world is beginning to realize that Islamic extremism effects their safety and global interests, they now find themselves in a quagmire…can they continue to use Israel as their sacrificial lamb?




[Edited by - colorfl1 on 07-16-2006 12:07 PM]

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by arkrud:

I understand that this is tuff to accept by any American that the Hirosima and Nagashaki bombs was not droped to "save the lives of americans". This was done to stop the Soviet armes to advance in Europe in Asia.
This is a common sense everywhere around the world except US.
With this move US declared itself as a Superpower which capable of distoing anybody with cold blud.
This was the first act of cold war which almost broght this world to the end.
I don't now if it was mistake or not... But this was one of the most barbaric act of all times and cannot be justified by anything.
In general you nobody can justify violence by other violence. It same as saying that somebody killed my frens and I was so upset thet went to the strit and killed a couple ob bystanders.
The problems are usually created by polititions and prists. Take this fuc-ers out of equetion and we can reduce the violence.. But this is a pipe dream.

you are correct about this. Americans only read American history books, and the lies about how just our gov't is. But in the same breath, the rest of the world knows Israel has way overeacted in this and in many other instances.

Every nation writes its own history books.
America allows it's citizens to object and re-write them... you included. Other nations eliminate anyone who questions their government. There are more opinions and political partyies in Israel than in most modern democracies... you really need to hit the books...

It is not merely your statements that are so offensive... it is the fact that they are accompanied by two lethal ingredents; ignorance and arrogance that makes them chalanging to ignore and is offending most posters...('');

In truth, Israel has been witnessing advances in Hezbolah's hostility on their terratory and ciizens for well over two years (as was widely reported this was the 4th time Hezbolah had tried this opperation). There has been steady brazen escalation. With Syria and Iran taking more transparant approaches to undermining Israel's existance. (Do you really think it is a coincidence that Syria and Iran announced their treaty to protect each other militarily {with nukes when they aquire them} right before they gave the green light {also sending technology, expertize and funding} to these terrorist operations led by Hamas and Hezbolah?)

Lebanon is being held hostage by Syria, who asassinates anyone who challanges their authority.

The UN declared that Hezbolah needed to be disarmed and be demilitarized... but Lebonon is too impotent to do it... therefore Israel again needs to come in and do the world's dirty work...

This is going to be my last reply to your specific statements, as I feel that my acknowleging them is lending them more credability than they deserve.
Peace to all - ('');



[Edited by - colorfl1 on 07-16-2006 12:48 PM]

Posted by Killa4luv:

Well I looked for an objective source of information. And I don't think you can get any more objective than Amnesty international. here's one of many reports on what Israel is doing:
Israel claims that it is intended to block entry into Israel to Palestinian suicide bombers and other potential attackers

This is at least a cogent point, so I will respond to it.
Israel made a fence as a protective measure to protect its people from suicide attacks on women and children. The wall has been surprisingly effective, since its activation, the attempts by terrorists have not declined, but their ability to target the maximum amount of civilians has been hampered because of this very fence. Suicide attacks by terrorists that have penitrated Israel in recent years have arisen from areas where the wall has not been completed.

Israel has a duty to protect its citizens from those who strive to snuff out the lives of innocent woman and children. This is the natural right and duty of every nation...


I will not get into a politicized debate with you of how Middle East politics work, and how Amnasty and the UN are not impervious to holding Israel to a higher standard than other nations in their aim to do the most good against the atrosities in Arab nations while trying to be percieved as even handed in their crtiiques. Do you not realize that Iran is sitting on the UNs council for human rights?!? Is this the same Amsesty that helped spread the libel of a masacre in Jenin...

Do you at least aspire to be fairminded... on this very complex issue???

I am not interested in encouraging you any further... you seem pretty set in your warped ideology... moral relativism and justification for terrorism as remaining a fixture in our world.

Best wishes... I am out.






[Edited by - colorfl1 on 07-16-2006 1:14 PM]

I canceled my trip when the first rockets hit Haifa.

It was deemed a terror act.

Next day the insurance company declaired it an act of war.

Trip cost 16k, and cost me only $450 to pull out. If I waited a day it would have cost me $2400 to cancel.

I have paid many times travel insurance and never used it. This time it paid me well. And, Use a good travel agent. I have the same one for 21 years and she canceled my trip without even asking me! Saved me a bundle and did all the leg work.

Still don't know what I will do travel wise.

Bottom line about US support of Israel. They have the bomb. And if they face extinction they will light up the Arab world killing hundreds of millions if they are exterminated. They hold a gun to the west as it will radiate oil for 60 years and put the worlds economy on its head.

Israel will not wait until any opponent builds itself up. they will get them while the sleep and take out the leaders. The civilian loss it a shame no doubt. They are cowards and live and work amung civilians. condem them for the civilian loss of life, not Israel.

They don't value human life as other cultures do.

It is up to the 95% of the non radical Arab world to take care of these minority nut jobs. If they don't, there are the Israelis that will.

1982 Israel flew into Iraq and took out the nuke plant they thought would be a problem. Why wait until its built?

What about Irans new plant? Whose gonna take it out?

Posted by simrud:

Killa I don't care what you'll say, I know you hate me just cause I'm jewish, so go ahead and say whatever you want. As a matter of fact go ahead, do it, I dare you. It will be much easier to communicate with you in the future if you "take the gloves off" and tell us how you really feel.

So cmon stop sugarcoating and draw the battle lines where they should be.

Just remember, in time, you and your kind will join Egypt, Babilon, Rome, Spanish Empire, Nazi Germany, etc. You and your types will be dust in the wind and Jews will still be there.

So cmon go at it, tell me what you really feel like. You can kill millions of us, but we'll still presever you Nazi propogandist.

you are truly insane. I mean like, something is really wrong with you.

Is anyone else reading this?

me and my kind?
Nazi propogandist?

I've already told you how I realy feel, but seeing how you are certifiably crazy, I'm gonna just ignore you from here on out. You have added nothing at all to this discussion.